Pit Bulls

[ishoot308]

B.R.;

When Pirate was attacked was he in your yard or your neighbors?? If he was in your yard you definitely have a case to recoup cost for the dog and all vet bills. If he was in your neighbors you will have a fight on your hands I think.

Either way my heart goes out to you and your wife for your loss.

Dan

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

I agree 100%!

I don't trust that breed as far as I could throw them. I don't care what people say they cannot be trusted..

[VitaBene]

BR So sorry for your loss, it is horrible.

I am in my office and was scrolling through the thread when I hear this dog growling behind me (it was my Steeler). I was reading the description of the Dogo white dog above and he obviously saw something he did not like in the posture or something.

[Happy Gourmand]

BR, so sorry for your loss.
I too have no use for this breed of dog. A few years ago my son came over our house with a friend's pit bull. I told him to keep it on a short leash even while in the house. Though I was able to "pet" it, I didn't trust it. I dropped something on the floor, fairly close to the dog. As I bent to retrieve what was dropped, the dog lunged for my face. I managed to reach out and caught it by the collar and held it at bay until my son was able to get it under control. I consider that I was pretty lucky to make that collar catch.
I asked my son to get that dog out of my house and not return with it again.
I have a hard time thinking that some folks think they are really a gentle breed. They are not. There are way too many horrible stories like this one.

[bclaker]

Bob,
Was this the dog that rides the surf board?

[8gv]

Advice:

Bring a legal action against the owners of the dog that killed yours.

The loss of your pet in this manner has caused you emotional distress.

Any vet bills stemming from this cost you money.

Your dog had monetary value which is now gone.

Seek significant damages for these.

By bringing this action against your neighbor they will have to respond through their homeowners insurance. When their insurance company realizes what has happened they will likely demand the dog be removed. If the owner is not complant, the insurance company may not renew their policy.

Whether or not you win, you have had an impact on the neighbor.

If owners don't have enough sense to choose another breed, maybe the economics of owning a Pit Bull can be made unfeasible.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Advice:

Bring a legal action against the owners of the dog that killed yours.

The loss of your pet in this manner has caused you emotional distress.

Any vet bills stemming from this cost you money.

Your dog had monetary value which is now gone.

Seek significant damages for these.

By bringing this action against your neighbor they will have to respond through their homeowners insurance. When their insurance company realizes what has happened they will likely demand the dog be removed. If the owner is not complant, the insurance company may not renew their policy.

Whether or not you win, you have had an impact on the neighbor.

If owners don't have enough sense to choose another breed, maybe the economics of owning a Pit Bull can be made unfeasible.

I would like to do that as well but my wife wants to put it behind her and not have to face these people. We are planning on moving to get away from these people. We are however going to pursue legal action in small claims court for vet bills and attempt to get compensation for the cost of pirate.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I would like to do that as well but my wife wants to put it behind her and not have to face these people. We are planning on moving to get away from these people. We are however going to pursue legal action in small claims court for vet bills and attempt to get compensation for the cost of pirate.

You will probably grind through the small claims process and after about two years, still not get anything out of those people. Good luck. My last experience when the people were in contempt of court for not paying 10$ a month toward a bill ended up with the judge telling me they didn't have enough money to pay since they only made 18,000 a year on disability. So I am disgusted with the whole process. I was in shock when the judge said that. I do a fair amount of collections and that has never happened to me before. Not able to pay 10$ a month???? But I know he has money for beer, etc.

[dippasan]

So sorry for your loss. Horrible.

In my humble opinion, these types of dogs are aggressive by nature and it does not take much to bring it out in them. My father in law loved these types of dogs, (Rottweilers, pit bulls, Dobermans). His dogs were highly trained and were "show dogs" and on many occasions I saw his own Rotty's growl, snap and behave very aggressive towards anyone.
I never let my guard down and never ever trusted these animals or these breeds around my kids or my own dogs.

[8gv]

There is a raging national debate on the merits of owning a Pit Bull. I've heard most of what both sides say. There is often a comparison made of bite incidents by different breeds. Pit Bull advocates may tell you that some other, well respected, kid friendly breed bites more often.

Here is where I see the difference:

Most dogs that bite do it once to send a messege and then disengage.

A Pit Bull will likely keep biting until what it is biting stops moving.

A Pit Bull has extremely capable biting equipment, thus making each bite cause more damage.

I stear clear of them. I cross the street when I see one coming. I believe this "bullying by proxy" is why some owners choose this breed.

[Steveo]

Pit bull left to "babysit" 10-month-old child, Fla. man arrested


(CBS) PALM COAST, Fla. - A 41-year-old northeast Florida man, James Irvine, faces child neglect charges after he allegedly left an infant in the care of a pit bull while he went out to drink Friday night.

The mother of the 10-month-old child left the baby in Irvine's care when she left for work on Nov. 30, the Daytona Beach News-Journal reports. However, Irvine soon abandoned the child to go out to a bar.

The child's mother reportedly became alarmed after she tried contacting Irvine several times Friday night. When Irvine finally picked up the mother's phone calls he reportedly told her "I'm watching the game," before hanging up, the newspaper reports.

When the mother arrived home, she discovered Irvine trying to get back into the house through the garage door.

According to the News-Journal, citing a Flagler County sheriff's report, Irvine told her that he had not "left the baby alone," because the "pit bull was watching the baby."

The dog was sitting outside the room where the child was left. The door was shut, and the child was allegedly crying, the Daytona Beach News-Journal reported.

Irvine was arrested and brought to the Flagler County Inmate Facility. He was later released on $1,500 bail, the newspaper reports.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I stear clear of them. I cross the street when I see one coming. I believe this "bullying by proxy" is why some owners choose this breed.

The dog owner thinks it makes them a bad ass! That kind of stupid thinking shows how stupid they really are! Probably why the owner was going to deny it was their dog that did it! Get a clue!

[gravy boat]

BR -- I am so sorry for your loss. As you can see by my avitar I am a dog lover myself.

I am not familiar with the local laws, but perhaps you document every call and response, get a copy of the police report you filed, and whatever other information could help you make your case and then consult a lawyer for a civil suit. Again, I don't know the laws or if it's feasible but hitting an ignoramus in the wallet may wake his/her sorry butt up.

GB

[ApS]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

BR -- I am so sorry for your loss. As you can see by my avitar I am a dog lover myself.

I am not familiar with the local laws, but perhaps you document every call and response, get a copy of the police report you filed, and whatever other information could help you make your case and then consult a lawyer for a civil suit. Again, I don't know the laws or if it's feasible but hitting an ignoramus in the wallet may wake his/her sorry butt up.

GB

BR will need this.

[LIforrelaxin]

Frist BR, I am sorry that you had a to loose your dog in such a way, it is never easy...

2nd, many homeowners insurance policies, will not renew policies if an aggressive breed is found to be residing in the home. And it isn't just pitbulls, rotwillers, etc. that are considered aggressive. My Aunt has Malamutes and had trouble with her insurance company a couple of years back.

3rd while it is true certain species have more agressive personalities, it is always the lack of responsibility on the part of the owner that causes the problem. I have seen pitbulls, rotwillers, dobermans etc. all make great pets. But in order to do so takes a certain type of owner. Someone that understands that dogs traits, and can provide the attention and constant training that these dogs need.

All dogs have inate tendencies, my springer for instantence is a hunting dog, and while I don't hunt with him, my wife and I do train and work with him constantly. This allows his natural tendancy to want to track, flush, and retrieve, to be full filled in a constructive maner. When I see well behaved Rotwillers, Pits etc. they usually have owners that understand the agressive nature of the dogs, and also find ways to allow them to get that aggression out constructively. I have found when I see dogs snap, and attack, it is generally because the owners, have not found a way to constructively live with their dogs traits, and try and restrain the dog from showing those traits, and thus the dogs eventually snaps.

Last dogs are dogs, they are animals, there genelogy is to be aggressive, and that is true of any dog. Look at the behavior of the wolfs. They are very agressive, even towards there own pack. However in a pack the behavior is understood and not a suprise to any of the members. Dogs think of humans as part of the pack, they expect us to understand their behavior, alas oftern we do not.

Don't blame the dog, the problem is always the owner. And the bottom line is some people just don't care, or don't take the time to learn and understand their dog.

[8gv]

I keep hearing and reading "don't blame the dog, blame the owner". How, pray tell, does one discern between a responsibe owner and an irresponsible one?

Do I make a quick judgement as I walk my dog (or kid) down the sidewalk?

Do I assume innocence until after the maiming and then apologize for my error?

I am not in the business of gauging Pit Bull aggression levels.

As far as I'm concerned, there are Pits who have had incidents and Pits that WILL.

I suppose that makes me a "breedist". So be it.

[codeman671]

I think this thread should be directed to the firearms thread... I have 4 dogs and if a neighbors dog did that to one of mine it would disappear in the night...

I have owned many dogs, the toughest one being a chessie. My jake was an angel, had him since he was 8 weeks and he was the best chessie I had ever met. Many vets and groomers were scared of him as they are known to be bull headed, not loving, and sometimes aggressive but certainly not fierce like a pit bull. He turned out to be loyal and lovable. He was focused and a bit intense when it came to his toys but beyond that my kids could climb all over him. He lived to be 14, a good long life for a Chesapeake.

I was mauled by a black lab as a kid, it roughed me up pretty bad. It's a miracle I like dogs as much as I do. I have been attacked by rotties and pit bulls before so I have no love for either.

Our 4 dogs are all family friendly. My leonberger is a moose and has a bark that could wake the dead, but is a teddy bear. The rest are all sissies.

Sorry for your loss. Awful...

Codeman671

(Codeman, otherwise named Cody, was my golden retriever and probably the best friend I have ever had)

[Gearhead]

As much as I'm sure you'd love to put one through it's skull, you have to know they'll just get another. You can't win that way - you need a bigger bully.

It wouldn't take much for a lawyer to find out who the lienholder is and who insures the property, then send them both letters describing the incident, as well as a copy of the police report. I'll bet the bank and the insurance company will take care everything else for you.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

As much as I'm sure you'd love to put one through it's skull, you have to know they'll just get another. You can't win that way - you need a bigger bully.

It wouldn't take much for a lawyer to find out who the lienholder is and who insures the property, then send them both letters describing the incident, as well as a copy of the police report. I'll bet the bank and the insurance company will take care everything else for you.

My wife is taking them to small claims court to recover the vet bills and possibly the cost of pirate.
My suggestion was to tell them when she saw them that they had a choice, pay up or we get a lawyer and go after their homeowners or at the very least send them all the police reports and let them make the call. I do like the part about including the lien holder.

[Flylady]

Check with your lawyer. Filing a claim against their homeowners policy should start wheels in motion as others have indicated on this tread. Neither the homeowner or the insurance company want the liability of having a dog with a violent history. While they may turn down the claim, they will request the dog be removed (with proof) or they will cancel the policy. The next time it could be a human !

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by bclaker

Bob,
Was this the dog that rides the surf board?

No that was my Rascal. This was Pirate a gift from me on my wife's birthday about 10 years ago. She is never on the lake without her dog.
Believe it or not Rascal is a strong alpha dog and has sent this pit bull running for home many a time.

ishoot308: Pirate had escaped our fenced in yard and the attack happened on our dirt road. We did not see it but given past history, whenever pirate saw this dog she would give it a wide birth. Our belief is that she was trying to avoid the dog and the owner did nothing to stop her dog from chasing down pirate.

[magicrobotmonkey]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

BR, so sorry for your loss.
I too have no use for this breed of dog. A few years ago my son came over our house with a friend's pit bull. I told him to keep it on a short leash even while in the house. Though I was able to "pet" it, I didn't trust it. I dropped something on the floor, fairly close to the dog. As I bent to retrieve what was dropped, the dog lunged for my face. I managed to reach out and caught it by the collar and held it at bay until my son was able to get it under control. I consider that I was pretty lucky to make that collar catch.
I asked my son to get that dog out of my house and not return with it again.
I have a hard time thinking that some folks think they are really a gentle breed. They are not. There are way too many horrible stories like this one.

I'm sorry but this story doesn't show that all pit bulls are terrible killers. It shows that that dog was. Obviously there are bad pit bulls, as has been stated there are bad dogs of any breeds. Anyone who own a large strong dog needs to be responsible with it, just like anyone who owns a gun needs to be responsible with it. This extends to putting it down if necessary. I don't know why anyone would keep a dog around that had to be physically restrained over a piece of food like this one. To me it's equivalent to keeping a loaded, cocked pistol on your coffee table.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by magicrobotmonkey

I'm sorry but this story doesn't show that all pit bulls are terrible killers. It shows that that dog was. Obviously there are bad pit bulls, as has been stated there are bad dogs of any breeds. Anyone who own a large strong dog needs to be responsible with it, just like anyone who owns a gun needs to be responsible with it. This extends to putting it down if necessary. I don't know why anyone would keep a dog around that had to be physically restrained over a piece of food like this one. To me it's equivalent to keeping a loaded, cocked pistol on your coffee table.

Pit bulls are almost always the only dog in the news constantly for killing or maiming other animals and people. This breed of dog is a ticking time bomb.
Many cities have special ordinances specifically for dealing with pit bulls.

[eillac@dow]

BR...I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot even imagine it. Please extend my condolences to you family.

Allie

[Flylady]

Belmont Res. I am sorry for your loss. Unfortunately usually only those that have personal experiences with dogs attacking understand the true capabilities of certain breeds. Pit bulls and rottweiler because of the attack gene bred in are always capable of killing and there is NEVER a guarantee that something, however minor won't trigger that attack circuit.
For the doubters, look up how many children have been killed by their family pitbull or rottweiler. Surely they thought their dogs would never hurt a family member, but humans and dogs do not think the same way.

My son was attacked by the neighbors rottweiler when he was 6. The dog crashed through the front screen and ran across the street and attacked. He aimed to kill. Clearly the two little boys playing in their front yard triggered something that caused him to "snap". Luckily my son was saved by a 17 year old who fled with my son while the dog continued to lunge toward my son. They both sustained a lot of injuries and the hospital took pictures of them before treating.
Unfortunately the owners also thought it was fluke and decided the dog needed to be neutered. Within a few weeks the dog was seized and put down.

So for any owner of the suspect breeds, never, never ever trust that your animal is not capable of killing your pet, child or a stranger.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Belmont Res. I am sorry for your loss. Unfortunately usually only those that have personal experiences with dogs attacking understand the true capabilities of certain breeds. Pit bulls and rottweiler because of the attack gene bred in are always capable of killing and there is NEVER a guarantee that something, however minor won't trigger that attack circuit.
For the doubters, look up how many children have been killed by their family pitbull or rottweiler. Surely they thought their dogs would never hurt a family member, but humans and dogs do not think the same way.

My son was attacked by the neighbors rottweiler when he was 6. The dog crashed through the front screen and ran across the street and attacked. He aimed to kill. Clearly the two little boys playing in their front yard triggered something that caused him to "snap". Luckily my son was saved by a 17 year old who fled with my son while the dog continued to lunge toward my son. They both sustained a lot of injuries and the hospital took pictures of them before treating.
Unfortunately the owners also thought it was fluke and decided the dog needed to be neutered. Within a few weeks the dog was seized and put down.

So for any owner of the suspect breeds, never, never ever trust that your animal is not capable of killing your pet, child or a stranger.

Well said. A friend of the family got two of these dogs as pets about 18-months ago. We immediately ruled their house a no-go zone for the kids. They haven't been there since. It simply isn't worth the risk.

[winnipiseogee]

BelmontRes - I mean no disrespect by posting this on your thread but it seemed the appropriate area for the discussion. A pitbull puppy was tied to a bumper and dragged over a mile yesterday (mind you pit bulls are subjected to more abuse by humans than any other dog breed - wonder if its a coincidence?). Most statistics I can find suggest that humans inflicting acts of cruelty against dogs each year is higher than the incidence of dogs biting humans. Even the breeds being discussed are a result of humans breeding these undesirable traits into their animals. 60 years ago pitbulls were the single most popular family dog in america. Its only when the Scott Vicks of the world decided to breed them to fight each other that problems start to arise. We need to focus on what we can to target Bemont's irresponsible neighbors and leave the poor dogs alone.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by winnipiseogee

BelmontRes - I mean no disrespect by posting this on your thread but it seemed the appropriate area for the discussion. A pitbull puppy was tied to a bumper and dragged over a mile yesterday (mind you pit bulls are subjected to more abuse by humans than any other dog breed - wonder if its a coincidence?). Most statistics I can find suggest that humans inflicting acts of cruelty against dogs each year is higher than the incidence of dogs biting humans. Even the breeds being discussed are a result of humans breeding these undesirable traits into their animals. 60 years ago pitbulls were the single most popular family dog in america. Its only when the Scott Vicks of the world decided to breed them to fight each other that problems start to arise. We need to focus on what we can to target Bemont's irresponsible neighbors and leave the poor dogs alone.

As much as I now hate the breed I would NEVER advocate this type of torture to any animal.
But I do not agree with you. As stated earlier I believe the breed is a ticking time bomb weather it gets all the love and training in the world or it is trained to fight.

[Resident 2B]

All the best training in the world will not completely overcome genetics. It may mask the genetics most of the time, but a psychological trigger, no matter how small, can make these dogs instantaneously snap.

You buy a purebred dog because of the genetics in the breed you have chosen. Within a small range, you know what you are getting. Pit-bull owners need to realize what they have gotten into and take all necessary precautions to make sure their dog does not harm anyone or anyone's pet.

That is responsible ownership and if they are not doing that job, the dog should be removed as a menace to society. That is what an untrained and improperly supervised pit-bull truly is.

R2B

[Rusty]

I was walking my dog on the cotton valley trail in Wolfeboro this afternoon when I passed a lady who was walking a Jack Russell. The dog went nuts when it saw my dog and the owner had a hard time calming it down.

I talked to the owner and she said that she just got the dog and was going to take it to dog obedience training because of the way it acts when it sees another dog. She said it barks constantly and gets very aggressive when it comes in contact with other dogs.

Is this common in the Jack Russell breed?

I searched for a video and found this one. The Jack Russell acted just like the one in the video:

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I was walking my dog on the cotton valley trail in Wolfeboro this afternoon when I passed a lady who was walking a Jack Russell. The dog went nuts when it saw my dog and the owner had a hard time calming it down.

I talked to the owner and she said that she just got the dog and was going to take it to dog obedience training because of the way it acts when it sees another dog. She said it barks constantly and gets very aggressive when it comes in contact with other dogs.

Is this common in the Jack Russell breed?

I searched for a video and found this one. The Jack Russell acted just like the one in the video:

Yes Jack Russell males are very alpha strong in many cases. I have known 2 people who had to put a male JR down because of this and the sad thing is that in both cases it was definitely lack of the owners to act on this.
In one case it was our elderly neighbors, we had offered to take the dog and work with it since we had 3 but in the end he felt bad letting us and eventually put him down.
Many dogs will display this kind of behavior towards other dogs but in most of those cases it is because the dog has not been allowed to interact with other dogs so in the end it doesn't know any other way. This type of behavior can in my opinion always be traced back to the owner.
We have never had one of our dogs act this way around other dogs. My Rascal who is a strong alpha and rules the house will turn and growl at another dog when the dog refuses to leave her alone, but only then.
I have a friend with a huge German Sheppard and it is comical to see her chasing him across his yard while snapping at his heals after she has sent him the message that she wants to be left alone and he persists.
80-90lb German Sheppard being run down by an 18lb JR, what a sight.

[Lakepilot]

I have a friend with a male and female Jack Russel. In his case it's the female that is hyper and acts like this. If it were always the owners that are the problem why are some breeds of dogs more hyper then others?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

I have a friend with a male and female Jack Russel. In his case it's the female that is hyper and acts like this. If it were always the owners that are the problem why are some breeds of dogs more hyper then others?

Lakepilot, read up on Jack Russell's, they are normally a very hyper breed of dog. While they are not normally an aggressive dog they like any other dog can be.
I noticed in the video Rusty posted that the lady that had the hyper JR was older.
No disrespect meant but when older/elderly people get dogs they tend to shower them with love and affection but do very little when it comes to discipline. Kind of like grand parents with grand kids, they can do no wrong.
We have been very lucky to have gotten Jack Russel dogs that have taken well to training and interact well with any dog they have met in public.
I take mine with me to work all summer and she sits in the sun all day sleeping or watching me work. I've even got her to stay on command if she see's a squirrel or chipmunk. That took a while to achieve.

[NickNH]

I am so sorry about your baby. It must have been horibble for you and your wife to have to deal with that. A friend of mine was walking her dog a few years ago, on leash. A 7 year old girl was walking her mother's boyfriends Pit. The Pit got loose and attached my friends dog. He kept coming at her dog until he had killed him even though people were trying to pry him away.

The owners reaction? "Well at least he killed this one so I don't have to pay the vet bills like I had to the last time he attacked a dog.....$100 fine is nothing".

I think the OWNER should have been euthanized....

I do believe this breed has been bred for this and irresponsible owners allow these dogs to act this way.

My nephew has an American Bulldog (another of the "Bully Breeds" and she is the sweetest dog on the planet.....she is the grandaughter of the dog who was in the movie The Incredible Journey. She was well trained and lives with other dogs of all sizes, cats and young children with never an issue.

Again, so sorry for you and I hope you can find some peace.

[GrandmaBig6]

Belmont Resident,

Our hearts go out to you and your wife on your loss. What a very sad way to lose such a wonderful family member.

My husband and I are total animal lovers, who own the dog in the avatar and three cats, and we would not hesitate to want justice for any one of our "kids" taken away by a menace and heartless family.

We were thinking that if you could not win the fight to have this dog put down, what about asking the town to make sure this dog is muzzled every time it leaves the inside of their house, even in their yard? Every time you see this dog without its muzzle call the town and report them and hopefully they will actually consider seizing this animal and do something they should have done a long time ago.

All our best to you,
Mary and Frank

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

All the best training in the world will not completely overcome genetics. It may mask the genetics most of the time, but a psychological trigger, no matter how small, can make these dogs instantaneously snap.

You buy a purebred dog because of the genetics in the breed you have chosen. Within a small range, you know what you are getting. Pit-bull owners need to realize what they have gotten into and take all necessary precautions to make sure their dog does not harm anyone or anyone's pet.

That is responsible ownership and if they are not doing that job, the dog should be removed as a menace to society. That is what an untrained and improperly supervised pit-bull truly is.

R2B

I agree with the training vs genetic statement. I own a Jack Russell, and no matter how well trained, at some point he WILL take off after a varmint. I don't expect any amount of training or love will make him 100% reliable, and hence. . . pit bulls give me the willeys.