Too quiet? Too loud?

[Waterbaby]

Just curious, have you ever been out here and on the Lake?

[Lakewinniboater]

I gotta say....... I have to agree with some. Although, I love my sleep and hate to be woken up. However, if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

I try to think.... hey, maybe there was something on the tracks. Maybe that is what they are mandated. I chose to live here.... no sense in getting mad. If I get mad they win.

A legal boat that late at night is going to sound annoying and illegal. NOT saying that it is muffled appropriately.... however, if it is..... is it worth getting yourself in an uproar. Or is it better to let it go and stay positive... enjoy the fact that we are able to enjoy the area? I think it is worth it. Nothing is perfect. Try and see the positive side. It isn't like the constant roar of a highway. It is momentary. Don't get your blood pressure up over it. Move on. Look at the wonderful parts of the lake. Let the negative be underplayed.

None of us with ever get our way all the time. There are some that will never be as polite as others. We are not all right all the time. Don't let it ruin a good thing!!!!!!!!!

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

What if a train started coming through every night making 5 times the noise of the other trains, engine unmuffled, squealing wheels and a continuous horn blast. Wouldn't you object to that and ask some questions? Most people accept the normal sounds of fast boats and jetskis on a busy lake like Winni. It's the excessive noise at inappropriate times that is a problem.

[Lakewinniboater]

However, to complain about it is what I don't understand. If that were to happen..... I would sell the property and find a place that made me happy.

Complaining and finger pointing will never stop the things that annoy you. It is better to either not let it bother you or remove yourself from the situation if it is that bothersome.

Although, it does not mean that the others are right.......you can't control others. You need to do what makes you happier.

That was my only point.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

That was my only point.

And a good point it is for a less stressful life

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

However, to complain about it is what I don't understand. If that were to happen..... I would sell the property and find a place that made me happy.

Wow, I disagree 110%. I will fight for what I love and cherish. That includes my home and the lake.

I guess the word excessive just isn't in your vocabulary. You won't even acknowledge that some things (like the train I mentioned) are over the line.

It appears that what you are really saying is that you can do whatever you like, at any hour and volume, and if you disturb 1000 people, too bad, they should just leave. What a narrow minded and selfish view.

This is like talking to a wall, I won't try again.

[KonaChick]

Boater....... you've stated it much better and explained your point more clearly than I did. If you hadn't guessed I echo your thoughts exactly! Thank you.

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by Boater

Wow, I disagree 110%. I will fight for what I love and cherish. That includes my home and the lake.

I guess the word excessive just isn't in your vocabulary. You won't even acknowledge that some things (like the train I mentioned) are over the line.

It appears that what you are really saying is that you can do whatever you like, at any hour and volume, and if you disturb 1000 people, too bad, they should just leave. What a narrow minded and selfish view.

This is like talking to a wall, I won't try again.

When did I infer or say I didn't acknowledge "excessiveness"? Honestly, before making accusations that I believe I can do whatever I like no matter how it effects others..... PLEASE, go back and READ what I wrote.

If you then decide to have an intelligent debate then fine. Until then, you only make yourself look foolish.

Seriously, I said that I don't appreciate it at times.... but I CHOSE not to allow it to get me upset. It is a momentary annoyance. If it got to the point that I didn't feel I could deal that I would move to make myself happier instead of being annoyed.

I did not tell you to "just move". I take offense to the misuse of my words.

However, as I stated before..... just a momentary annoyance and will not allow it to remain in my mind or ruin my day.

Have a good day all!

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Boater

What if a train started coming through every night making 5 times the noise of the other trains, engine unmuffled, squealing wheels and a continuous horn blast. Wouldn't you object to that and ask some questions? Most people accept the normal sounds of fast boats and jetskis on a busy lake like Winni. It's the excessive noise at inappropriate times that is a problem.

Boater,

The train scenario really doesn't work, as the railroad was there long before you or Wendy were. The railroad has a right to run trains, who by their nature are noisy. Thats like complaining about airplane noise when you move next to an airport.... or truck noise when you live next to a highway. If you don't like the noise, move to a quieter area or don't let it bother you. You have a choice.

The problem is that EVERYONE has a different definition of "Excessive Noise" and "Innapropriate Times". Thats why we have an RSA that defines excessive noise and sets a max db limit for boats. This limit is enforced with regularity. I know of several boats that have had to take the "Noise Test". My boat is perfectly legal and in compliance with the current noise statutes. However, if I were to go thru the Broads at 2am on plane I can just about guarantee I would be annoying a few people. But I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

Nobody has the right to peace and quiet! Lake Winnipesaukee is a shared resource, and as such sometimes you have to share with those who don't share the same opinion or beliefs. When you live along the lakeshore, you essentially live by the side of a road. When you live on the side of a roadway, on occasion. loud vehicles are going to pass by. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it except perhaps lobby for a change in the noise statute. That might reduce the noise some, but certainly not eliminate it. A little tolerance and repect for others goes along way. This goes for both sides as Orion pointed out below. (I was typing that when you posted ) Because swithcable exhaust is still illegal, the late night boater doesn't have much choice in quieting down his boat. Even at headway speed, I think my boat would be too loud for some, especially late at night.


Woodsy

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Boater,

A little tolerance and respect for others goes along way.


Woodsy

.....and that goes for the boatowner making the noise as well.

[MovieStar]

I don't think that anyone is disputing cranking on a V8 at 2:00 am is the wrong thing to do. I have a car with a V8 that screams. The nights that I get home late, I keep it as low as possible becasue it's just the right thing to do. During the day is a different story. Some people have no consideration for others and that's too bad.
I hate rap music with a passion. I have to listen to it at every stop light, every street I walk down and just about every store I walk into that has a young kid behind the register. I don't let it infuriate me and ruin my day. I don't walk around showing these people noise ordinances telling them that what they are doing is inconsiderate and rude. They know and they don't care. So I just drop it and laugh it off.
Those of you who don't like loud engines are in the right. However unless you have law enforcement that will enforce the laws or boaters and bikers with consideration, your up a creek without a paddle and that's unfortunate. And no I have not been to the Lake, Yet.

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The train scenario really doesn't work, as the railroad was there long before you or Wendy were. The railroad has a right to run trains, who by their nature are noisy. Thats like complaining about airplane noise when you move next to an airport....

You seemed to have missed that I was not talking about normal train traffic. Of course people who move near train tracks have to accept the normal noise that trains make and people who go to the lake have to accept the normal noise of boats, jetskis and other sounds of people having fun. My hypothetical was about a new train that suddenly raised the noise level X5. I was trying to make the point that some boat (or train) noise is excessive and unacceptable.

The same applies to airports. If you were used to the normal sounds of airplanes and suddenly one day new planes started creating much louder noise late at night you would be justified to complain. Many airports place limits on excessive noise and either don't allow certain aircraft in or place strict noise abatement requirements on them. This is because they cross the line of what is reasonable or tolerable by the airport's neighbors. Airports don't just tell their neighbors "just move" when new noise concerns arise, they try to be understanding and mitigate the problem as much as possible.

Recently in Boston many people living along the Comm. Ave streetcar line complained that the streetcars were now making an unacceptable amount of noise. I'm sure that you would have told them "too bad, move somewhere else". Fortunately the city acted more reasonably and tried to identify the cause (new kinds of wheels) and fix the problem.

It's too bad that you can't acknowledge that some noise crosses the line instead of answering every concern with "just move". You really want us to move so you can do whatever you want unchallenged. I'm not leaving.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Boater

It's too bad that you can't acknowledge that some noise crosses the line instead of answering every concern with "just move". You really want us to move so you can do whatever you want unchallenged. I'm not leaving.

Actually Boater, I don't want anyone to leave, nor do I care to "do anything I want unchallenged." I have no problem with the lake at all. I guess you would call that tolerance, something some people don't seem to get. What you may deem as excessive and inappropriate noise may actually be quite legal. My boat is in complete compliance with the noise statute. I also pointed out that at 2am I would probably annoy some people with the exhaust noise even though I am legal. My point was a completely legal boat at 2am can sound illegal and will no doubt be annoying. This is because the ambient noise level on the lake at 2am is very low, and because there are very few obstructions noise carries particularly well over water. How do you know if the boat is legal or not? You are just assuming the boat isn't legal.... because it bothers you.

My justification for "just move" is that Lake Winnipesaukee is not a quiet lake, and never has been. Many, many people use Lake Winni. Some use it late at night and in doing so create noise. (for the record, my boat hasn't been out past 10pm) If you want peace and quiet go move someplace where there isn't anyone around for miles. Not because I care if you stay or move, but because you seem to want peace and quiet.

I like Lake Winnipesaukee just the way it is. I for one, am quite frankly sick and tired of people who seem to have zero tolerance for anyone else and want to change the Lake to suit themselves. I personally don't care what anyone else does as long as they (for the most part) abide by the law. For example I have witnessed numerous 150' violations, but if the offending boat is far enough away that there really isn't any chance for a collision, who cares? If they don't abide by the laws, they are the MP's or town/state police problem. I don't let these boneheads ruin my time. There will always be those that don't abide and don't care. We see these people everyday driving like lunatics on our highways, why would we not see them doing the same on the Lake? The MP cannot catch every bonehead. Whining about what they do is like a 5 year old tattling on his older sibling. Nobody likes a tattletale. I am sure there isn't a person here, except maybe APS who has never pulled a Bonehead move.

Live and let live!

Woodsy

[KonaChick]

Ladies and Gentleman...I respectfully request we put this post to bed (quietly of course). Things are getting nasty on this one.

[Lakewinniboater]

not really. There is no name calling or anything. Just a debate.

However, I would agree that there is no getting anywhere with this one. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion

[Drummer Girl]

So many different thoughts. If I heard the boat noise in the middle of the night I would listen to the sound grow louder then fainter, wondering what the boat might look like and what fun or special thing may have kept people out so late. I would be thankful for another glance up at the stars, snuggle under the covers and go back to sleep with pleasant thoughts and being very thankful for yet another chance to think about how special being up at the lake is.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drummer Girl

So many different thoughts. If I heard the boat noise in the middle of the night I would listen to the sound grow louder then fainter, wondering what the boat might look like and what fun or special thing may have kept people out so late. I would be thankful for another glance up at the stars, snuggle under the covers and go back to sleep with pleasant thoughts and being very thankful for yet another chance to think about how special being up at the lake is.

That's the spirit

[KonaChick]

Lakewinniboater I get the sense that it's important to you to always be right. Am I off base on this?

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Lakewinniboater I get the sense that it's important to you to always be right. Am I off base on this?

these are opinions. Where is there a place to be right. I do not like to be MISQUOTED. That is all

No need to be right. I just see a lot of times if the discussion is going in a non WinnFab manner that it gets shut down. That shouldnt be the case here. That is all.

This is supposed to be a forum.... not associated with either side and a good way for OPINIONS to be voiced. Maybe others can then form opinions or not!

[KonaChick]

Thanks for clearing that up and your honesty, it's appreciated. BTW i am NOT a member of WinnFab..so my opinion on noise from GFBL boats at 2 a.m. is just that...mine. Once again thanks for you reply.

[Kona Bay Girl]

Phew, it's been a while since I've posted here.

The truth of the matter is that while a quiet lake at 2 in the morning would be a fabulous thing, it can't be controlled. I'm guessing, Acres Per Second, this was only a one-time incident, otherwise it would have caused a commotion a while back. To have one incident out of the whole summer is a decent feat.

Lake Winnipesauke is not owned by anyone, and therefore is considered many things- a relaxing dip, a playground, a scenic dawn and sunset, and a wild ride for some boaters. Interests will conflict, and heated debates will occur. However, there is no right answer.

For example, I don't think people in New York are complaining about waking up at the crack of dawn because of the preparation of the Thanksgiving Day Parade. They all suck it up for one day a year, then go back to sleeping in late.

HOWEVER, if there was a parade every day, I could see where the conflict starts. To wake up every day with a giant Snoopy waving at you is quite a setback. However, the streets of New York City aren't owned or claimed to be owned by anybody, and there's not much anyone can do.

If noise is a recurring theme on the lake, (which honestly, it varies from year to year) then perhaps a hearty message at the launch ramp is all it takes to put things in perspective. "Town Officials of Meredith (Alton, etc.) Appreciate Your Courteosy and Respect for Lake Winnipesaukee and Its Residents" might be all it takes. It could be an effective start; a reminder for those who forget behind the throttle, and a pseudo Alma-Mater for permanent or temporary Residents.

Both sides of this debate are solid, with no pros outweighing each other. So instead of debating what "would" be nice or what's "right," both sides should discuss a fair solution that would allow boaters to play hard during the day, and residents to sleep well during the night.


I'm back up this weekend for the last hurrah before the "season" ends.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Kona Bay Girl

Phew, it's been a while since I've posted here.

The truth of the matter is that while a quiet lake at 2 in the morning would be a fabulous thing, it can't be controlled. I'm guessing, Acres Per Second, this was only a one-time incident, otherwise it would have caused a commotion a while back. To have one incident out of the whole summer is a decent feat.

Lake Winnipesauke is not owned by anyone, and therefore is considered many things- a relaxing dip, a playground, a scenic dawn and sunset, and a wild ride for some boaters. Interests will conflict, and heated debates will occur. However, there is no right answer.

For example, I don't think people in New York are complaining about waking up at the crack of dawn because of the preparation of the Thanksgiving Day Parade. They all suck it up for one day a year, then go back to sleeping in late.

HOWEVER, if there was a parade every day, I could see where the conflict starts. To wake up every day with a giant Snoopy waving at you is quite a setback. However, the streets of New York City aren't owned or claimed to be owned by anybody, and there's not much anyone can do.

If noise is a recurring theme on the lake, (which honestly, it varies from year to year) then perhaps a hearty message at the launch ramp is all it takes to put things in perspective. "Town Officials of Meredith (Alton, etc.) Appreciate Your Courteosy and Respect for Lake Winnipesaukee and Its Residents" might be all it takes. It could be an effective start; a reminder for those who forget behind the throttle, and a pseudo Alma-Mater for permanent or temporary Residents.

Both sides of this debate are solid, with no pros outweighing each other. So instead of debating what "would" be nice or what's "right," both sides should discuss a fair solution that would allow boaters to play hard during the day, and residents to sleep well during the night.


I'm back up this weekend for the last hurrah before the "season" ends.

The RIGHT answer:

Loud boats are illegal, Thanksgiving day parades usually are not.
Loud boats are illegal, squawking birds are not (for guy who complained about birds waking him up.)
People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack......

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by ITD

The RIGHT answer:

Loud boats are illegal, Thanksgiving day parades usually are not.
Loud boats are illegal, squawking birds are not (for guy who complained about birds waking him up.)
People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack......

ITD...

How do you know for a fact that the boat(s) in question are illegal? That is the crux of the problem, because the answer is... you don't know. You just assume they are illegal because you can hear them.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to prosecute a noise violation...

I have a real problem with your statement that "People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack". The world isn't perfect, prosecuting every little infraction would be a monumental waste of time and resources. A little more tolerance and perhaps education would be a better answer than tying up our emergency responders for relatively trivial infractions.

Woodsy

[rickstr66]

Just because you can hear a boat at 2 am doesnt mean its illegal. Just because you can hear a boat at 2 am doesn't mean its a "go fast" boat. It could be argued that a small skiff with an older outboard on it going by someones property would cause a longer disturbance of the silence then a faster boat which comes and goes in a minute or two.
Having said that. What would you have someone do that's going home either late night or early morning on the lake? They have to use their engine to get them there.
To the person who wanted to compare a parade in NY to the Lake. I feel thats a poor comparison. Compare apples to apples. A 1 day parade or event is no way similar to something that goes on everyday. Better examples have been brought up..... living adjacent to a railroad or to a highway where there pretty much is a constant or at least predictable flow of traffic and noise. It can be argued that if you live on a lake on any given night a boat may go by your property and it may disturb your sleep for a moment. You need to take that into account before decideing to move to lakefront property and not complain about it after the fact.

[ITD]

When I'm at the gas dock and the boat next to me starts and my ears start ringing, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. If I'm following a loud boat in the Weirs channel that's giving me a headache and it suddenly becomes quiet when the MP comes the other way, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. When I hear a boat at my house when its still miles away, I'm pretty sure its illegal.


Don't try to muddy the water by saying boats at the legal limit are loud, I'm talking ( as I'm sure most others are) about boats that are obnoxiously loud, ie no or very little sound suppression.

I'm also sure (my opinon here) that if these boats were silenced we wouldn't be debating a speed limit on this lake. (Because no one would notice the fast boats or care).

The Marine Patrol seems to be pretty rigorous at trying to get these boats and force them to be legal and I give them kudos. If the dingalings driving these boats would smarten up many of the speeding complaints would disappear.

Again, my humble opinion.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

I gotta say....... I have to agree with some. Although, I love my sleep and hate to be woken up. However, if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

I try to think.... hey, maybe there was something on the tracks. Maybe that is what they are mandated. I chose to live here.... no sense in getting mad. If I get mad they win.

A legal boat that late at night is going to sound annoying and illegal. NOT saying that it is muffled appropriately.... however, if it is..... is it worth getting yourself in an uproar. Or is it better to let it go and stay positive... enjoy the fact that we are able to enjoy the area? I think it is worth it. Nothing is perfect. Try and see the positive side. It isn't like the constant roar of a highway. It is momentary. Don't get your blood pressure up over it. Move on. Look at the wonderful parts of the lake. Let the negative be underplayed.

None of us with ever get our way all the time. There are some that will never be as polite as others. We are not all right all the time. Don't let it ruin a good thing!!!!!!!!!

My family lived in a home near the tracks, no problem until the 3:00 AM train came through and shook it as well..... Only took a few weeks for us to stop getting up, and opening the doors, to let the train go through!!!
Good old Northfield, Vermont!!

Thanks for the reminder!

Love,
T.