Overnight?

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by jrc

Anarchy? Ok, I guess overnight anchoring and dog poop are the hallmarks of the fall of western civilization Newsflash, people break laws, especially annoying laws with relatively minor fines. Ever been on a highway?

It's clearly illegal but I'm sure people take a chance.

At our old marina, one night a couple of boats didn't come back. They were very nervous and hush, hush about it but finally admitted they were stuck after dark in place they didn't know well and decided to stay out. They were afraid they were going to get a ticket even the next day.

One day we anchored late morning near Stonedam and a little boat was anchored at the dock. A skinny older man swam over to our boat and told us great stories about his life and how he spent the last few days moving from island to island. He was a retired teacher and still upset about birth control pills ruining the need for teachers.

Turn on a VHF during a fishing derby, all those fishing boats don't make it back every night.

I never tried it, dealing with the Marine Patrol at 2AM is just not worth the novelty.

Inconsiderate people, I guess like you, ruined Stonedam Island for the Rice family. So you want to encourage more? There are all kinds of people in the world. One chooses how to conduct themselves with many decisions, every day. Some think of others...and some don't!

The Marine Patrol doesn't answer at 2 am. They're sleeping, not working.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Inconsiderate people, I guess like you, ruined Stonedam Island for the Rice family. So you want to encourage more? There are all kinds of people in the world. One chooses how to conduct themselves with many decisions, every day. Some think of others...and some don't!

The Marine Patrol doesn't answer at 2 am. They're sleeping, not working.

I saw nothing in JRC's post that even came close to saying that they moored overnight, late morning; yes. How is that inconsiderate?

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I saw nothing in JRC's post that even came close to saying that they moored overnight, late morning; yes. How is that inconsiderate?

Read the title to my post. Your answer is (and was) there.

[jrc]

Just to be clear, I have never moored overnight, except at my slip. I never encouraged someone to moor overnight illegally.

BTW my teacher encounter was at the LRCT dock on Stonedam, a long way from the Rice's place.

I'm not sure how I got garysanfan so miffed, I guess my humor didn't come across well. You're not related to my new no rafting zone pen pal from the bay area are you?

[Rich]

Why is it that people think that anchoring overnight on Winnipesaukee is more dangerous than anchoring overnight on any other of the thousands of busy lakes and salt water bays and coves around the country and the world?

I just don't buy it.

If a boat has the proper on board equipment to support an overnight stay (i.e.: anchor light, portable or built in head, etc.) and the occupants are not having an all night party to disturb others that are nearby, then there should be no reason why anchoring overnight on Winnipesaukee is any different than any other busy lake or body of water in the world.

If people are making too much noise, then go after them for disturbing the peace or other noise control laws, don't try to claim that this particular lake is unique in that it's too dangerous at night. There are plenty of other lakes that have many islands and are busy with boat traffic.

Yes I know, this has been discussed at length, but it still doesn't make it right.

Sorry, I get tired of too many laws and especially those that make little common sense.

By the way, not that he needs it, but I'll vouch for JRC. He's tucked into his berth every night at his slip.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why is it that people think that anchoring overnight on Winnipesaukee is more dangerous than anchoring overnight on any other of the thousands of busy lakes and salt water bays and coves around the country and the world?

I just don't buy it.

If a boat has the proper on board equipment to support an overnight stay (i.e.: anchor light, portable or built in head, etc.) and the occupants are not having an all night party to disturb others that are nearby, then there should be no reason why anchoring overnight on Winnipesaukee is any different than any other busy lake or body of water in the world.

If people are making too much noise, then go after them for disturbing the peace or other noise control laws, don't try to claim that this particular lake is unique in that it's too dangerous at night. There are plenty of other lakes that have many islands and are busy with boat traffic.

Yes I know, this has been discussed at length, but it still doesn't make it right.

Sorry, I get tired of too many laws and especially those that make little common sense.

By the way, not that he needs it, but I'll vouch for JRC. He's tucked into his berth every night at his slip.

No reasonable person really thinks that way. The arguments clearly don't hold up when one can simply go to any other neighboring state and see that overnight anchoring is not a big issue at all.

[Descant]

For those who want to know why overnighting was prohibited, think about the time. These laws were passed in 1967, effective January 1, 1968 as far as I can tell. I remember that summer when I was working at a marina and they installed their first pump out station. Prior to that time, few boats had holding tanks, and those that did, had no proper place to discharge. The prior practice had been "macerator/chlorinators" and overboard discharge. Prior to that, there was just direct discharge into the lake. "Good practice" was to not empty the head until you were well away from the dock, but not all followed that plan.

Anyway, the legislature was doing as much as they could to protect the state's water quality. Holding tanks and no overnighting were two steps taken. I doubt that safety or the preferences of shorefront landowners ever entered into the discussion. There was too much open shorefront, unoccupied coves, etc.

Is it TRUE? I recall hearing at the time that there were some legislators who wanted bilge pumps to feed into holding tanks. One of those crazy things that just sticks in your mind. You can't make this stuff up.

So, in those older times, people slept on boats, often tied up at the public docks, and often without a permanently installed head or sanitary facility. Years later, on the federal level, with no regard to water quality, the tax law changed to allow deductibility of mortgage interest on a boat as a residence, if it had sleeping and toilet facilities. Q. How many manufacturers started installing heads with that in mind? A. All.

[Rich]

If this is the true original reason for this law, then it's high time to repeal it.

Or amend it to allow overnight anchoring if you have one of those 'this boat has been inspected' stickers from the boat potti-police.

[Descant]

But now we have the new conditions of densely populated shorelines, even on most islands. I think it was MistyBlue who suggested that Town docks should be made available for an overnight fee. I see merit to that idea. Maybe there's a way or a place for towns or states to allow overnighting on moorings, again for some sort of fee.

I keep my boat at a club (condo) where there are some rentals by owners, but the lease is for a full season minimum. Too bad visitors couldn't rent one of these for a week or less. Not the same as anchoring in solitude, but at least you get to sleep on the boat and can walk to the bath house.

[pcmc]

If an over night 'area' were ever initiated, imo a mandatory pumping of the holding tanks prior to the vessel leaving the docks would help with accidental 'mishaps'.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Descant

But now we have the new conditions of densely populated shorelines, even on most islands.

I fail to see what this has to do with people dumping raw sewage into the lake.

I would think that those shoreline homes with all the kids swimming in the lake water during the summer, each weekend, has just as much if not a larger impact on the water quality than a number of boaters anchoring over night and using their self contained toilets and pumping out when they get back to their dock/trailer/pump out station.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

I would think water quality would be impacted more by boaters that anchor on the lake for hours on end. Most of these boaters do not have any place to go to the bathroom, but in the lake. We grew up on the lake knowing that if we had to go the bathroom then it was time to get out of the lake and use the bathroom.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

I would think water quality would be impacted more by boaters that anchor on the lake for hours on end. Most of these boaters do not have any place to go to the bathroom, but in the lake. We grew up on the lake knowing that if we had to go the bathroom then it was time to get out of the lake and use the bathroom.

We can all hope this is true and it's very nice that you had good parents to teach you this.

The point is: Let's limit over night anchoring to those that have the proper on board toilets of some sort, not ban all over night anchoring of all boats.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Rich

We can all hope this is true and it's very nice that you had good parents to teach you this.

The point is: Let's limit over night anchoring to those that have the proper on board toilets of some sort, not ban all over night anchoring of all boats.

I agree, but with a clarification. I would like to see some designated areas on the lake approved for overnight anchoring. I don't think overnights should be approved and allowed at public docks. For example, it's already hard enough to get to dock at Center Harbor on a Saturday or Sunday AM for breakfast, or whatever. If overnight docking were to be allowed, there would be no space available to pull in for breakfast or for whatever reason.
Overnight anchoring, yes, in restricted areas, overnight docking at public docks, no.
Just as you are not allowed to pull your motor home into a public parking lot and camp out, neither should you be allowed to overnight at a public dock.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Just as you are not allowed to pull your motor home into a public parking lot and camp out, neither should you be allowed to overnight at a public dock.

With the exception of Wal-Marts and Sam's Clubs. You can park overnight with an RV. Also Park and Rides in various states allow overnights. I have traveled the US staying at Park and Rides and truck stops.

[Rich]

This would make sense to me too.

Public docks are different than overnight anchoring (with the proper on board toilets, etc.).

But again, this is a bit of a dead horse, unless we can get some state rep to take up a modification to the old RSAs now that we have DES inspection of boats with toilets and sinks, etc.

Here are the rules:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-A-mrg.htm

More specificially:
Here's where is says you can't overnight:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-A/270-A-3.htm

Here's where they define a houseboat as basically a boat with sleeping and toilet facilities, either permanent or temporary:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-A/270-A-1.htm

So as stupid as this sounds, if you have a boat, and no toilet, temporary or otherwise, which could mean: no buckets, bottles, or other containers on board that could be used as a 'temporary toilet', could you get away with anchoring over night?

Here's another very old thread on this topic, if you read it, you may find one post that has a 'reason for not allowing overnight anchoring' which may, or may not be still a problem now that we have DES inspecting boats to be sure no grey or black water can be discharged overboard: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=6404

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

For those who want to know why overnighting was prohibited, think about the time. These laws were passed in 1967, effective January 1, 1968 as far as I can tell. I remember that summer when I was working at a marina and they installed their first pump out station. Prior to that time, few boats had holding tanks, and those that did, had no proper place to discharge. The prior practice had been "macerator/chlorinators" and overboard discharge. Prior to that, there was just direct discharge into the lake. "Good practice" was to not empty the head until you were well away from the dock, but not all followed that plan.

Anyway, the legislature was doing as much as they could to protect the state's water quality. Holding tanks and no overnighting were two steps taken. I doubt that safety or the preferences of shorefront landowners ever entered into the discussion. There was too much open shorefront, unoccupied coves, etc.

Is it TRUE? I recall hearing at the time that there were some legislators who wanted bilge pumps to feed into holding tanks. One of those crazy things that just sticks in your mind. You can't make this stuff up.

So, in those older times, people slept on boats, often tied up at the public docks, and often without a permanently installed head or sanitary facility. Years later, on the federal level, with no regard to water quality, the tax law changed to allow deductibility of mortgage interest on a boat as a residence, if it had sleeping and toilet facilities. Q. How many manufacturers started installing heads with that in mind? A. All.

Descant has it right:

For those who want to know why overnighting was prohibited, think about the time. These laws were passed in 1967, effective January 1, 1968 as far as I can tell.

That's the era that the Legislature decided the lake water was no longer potable. (We kept getting private laboratory requests for checking one's lake water supply).



We got by with town water from the spigot at Wolfeboro's Lakeview Cemetery. (And called it "Cemetery Water").