Weirs Beach Waterslide to be Torn Down

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Just to clarify: The founders and initial operators of the Queen of Winnipesaukee are close personal friends of mine. The Queen was a very successful operation when they owned it, and the boat was full on most cruises. They made a conscious decision to sell the business, and it was the subsequent owners and partners that perhaps "tried and failed". If the City of Laconia had the vision, fortitude and integrity that the initial owners of the Queen had, then Weirs Beach (and Laconia) would be on par with Portland, Maine or Burlington, Vermont. But alas, the exact opposite is true. Sadly, I think it will continue in a downward spiral and will ultimately look like a 3rd world country.

Very true, not everybody can make a success of what others can. It's never as easy as it looks.
If this is the result of city neglect, it's a complete shame.

[Woodsy]

The downward slide of the Weirs has many facets....

A state that treats Weirs beach like an orphan... unless of course its Bike Week, then its the Police Overtime Fund.

A city who has treated the Weirs like an orphan... taking the money but spending very little. Little to no plan for the future, grinding Bike Week into the ground.

Property owners in the Weirs who invest little or no money in the upkeep of their property or businesses.

A completely changed demographic. We once had booming motel business with a large turnover of vacationers weekly... now we have a large amount of condos with very little turnover. This means less $$$ for businesses in the Weirs.

The theory that property values will drop to the point where a year round business becomes viable is silly. There isn't a year round population to support a recreational/tourist business.

Meredith has done well because the city allowed NH Hospitality to essentially have a monopoly on the property around Meredith Bay. They did an awesome job with it no doubt. But there is very little to do there. You have some cool shops and some restaurants.

The Weirs needs a plan... and that's a very contentious issue. As we have seen in this thread, some people want family activities, of which the Weirs already has a few. Others, myself included would rather things be of an adult nature. Throw in some property owners who don't care at all. The city/state cannot make the Baldi family clean up that eyesore that was the Saloon. They cannot make any of the property owners do much of anything.

The end result is nothing changes.... until the rules/laws change. Until the city & state look at what they have and spend some $$$ to improve the area.

Woodsy

[jmen24]

I would say that the population would support a year round business. People just need to think outside the box.

Take Jay Peak for example, a run down property that was purchased for % of its value. Investors with forward thinking and the capital to realize the potential. How many people laughed when they heard about an indoor water park, now you have to reserve your spot days in advance to ensure access, anytime of the year! That area is far more remote than Laconia in regard to population grab. The Weir's is an investment gold mine, it just hasn't reached its value yet.

The lots in the Weir's are small, you need quite a few of them to make something worthwhile that has multi-demographic and multi-interest draw.

If you think that your property values are not dropping as your neighbors pave theirs lots one at a time, that's silly. It's happening and I guarantee that the people with a plan (and the capital to finance it) are watching and they won't be building single one-off independents.

Other than the property values, I agree with Woodsy completely. If I had a vested interest I would start looking at who has control over these decisions at the state and city level, because the ones with a hand in jar are certainly helping the decline along. Maybe that is what needs to happen, I don't know, but the water has a funky smell to it.

[Woodsy]

Jay peak had huge amounts of land and very few neighbors close by. They had the space and the water resources to build that water park. They also already had a ski mountain. If a waterpark were to be built in the area, I would look to Gunstock.

I live in the Weirs year round, and I can tell you without a doubt, its a ghost town in the winter. You have the Lobster Pound, Tower Hill Tavern and the Gringo and Looney Bin. The ONLY tourist type business open year round is Funspot. Everything else is boarded up.... In the winter people drive 45 minutes north to Lincoln... or to North Conway.

Even Meredith, with all of their NH Hospitality hotels, is a ghost town in the winter... with the obvious exception of Pond Hockey & Fishing Derby. I would love to know the occupancy rate in the Winter... my guess is 30% - maybe 40%.

You really only have a few pieces of property "in Play" at the Weirs and IMHO they are too small to make the Weirs a year round destination.

The Pier... been for sale forever. Minimal owner investment made to keep property up.

The Wide Open Saloon property.... but the Baldis didn't file a new site plan to rebuild on the old footprint within a year, so now the setbacks make the property very hard to build on.

The Waterslide property.... decent footprint with odd shaped sloped lot. Definitely buildable, perfect spot for a hotel. But the owner wants to lease it. You will see Beer tent & vendors there for bike week, maybe a clam shack in the yellow building. but little else.

The Surf Coaster property... been for sale forever. The city did vote in a zoning change to encourage a hotel complex there. But no nibbles.

The arcades.... minimal owner upkeep and while nostalgic, they are pretty run down.

The hotels 5 miles away in Meredith make it very hard for a hotel in the Weirs to be viable.

So what can the Weirs do different from Meredith and still attract people. My answer is the same that made the Weirs famous in the first place... Nightlife. Bars, restaurants, music venues. Give people a reason to come here. Relax the rules a little, let people walk around with liquor or beer (in plastic of course). Let the venues have outside music past 10:00pm. Maybe bend the rules so the Baldis or someone else can rebuild on the old Saloon footprint. Tax breaks to the property owners that do substantial upgrades to their properties... etc etc.

Woodsy

[4 for Boating]

I would have to agree that whatever goes there would need to be able to support itself over a short year.

I know it would be tough for any type of restaurant to survive but I always thought an A&W type drive-in would be great in the spot. Even a Sonic drive-in I suppose.

Too bad the season is so short in NH.

[Misha888]

For Sale or For Lease.

[jmen24]

The situation with the Weirs is not unique. Areas that have a huge asset (the lake, hence the Jay comparison) and get run down have a history of being transformed from the outside. I do not own property in the area, so my point of view does not take that into account, but I believe we can agree that it will likely get worse before it gets better.

[jrc]

I was riding around a few weeks ago and went by an empty Cheshire fairgrounds. Maybe this is the de-facto model for Weirs.

A few transient events and empty the rest of the time. Obviously we have bike week, now add a few smaller events and presto pocket full of money with no risk or investment.

It's not my ideal solution but it seems inevitable.

[SIKSUKR]

With regard to Jay Peaks water park, that was not Jays or local money financing that. Almost all of it was EB-5 money from non citizens that invest large amounts of money in return for citizenship. FWIW

[jmen24]

Agreed, the investment came from outside, as do most of these deals. Some are a waste of money due to a lack of innovative thinking (Ragged is a great example of this), they just throw money at an idea without thinking all through.

My point was that with the asset of the lake frontage, someone has their eye on that area and it is easier to purchase a large piece of the area, one small chunk at a time. Most people don't pay close attention to these sales, they get a bunch of hype and speculation in the beginning, people stop talking about it, then all of a sudden the lot gets cleared and sits in a holding pattern. These properties are owned by LLC's, which in this state can be owed by other LLC's or S-Corp's and there is no regulation on the length of that chain. Research could give insight on the common piece to this puzzle. There are 3 very large abutting pieces of property that fit and are under mutual control, despite what their tax cards read.

Even if it takes 20 years to fill in the puzzle, the water front is not going away and any current or future zoning can be navigated and worked around by a moderately competent individual, it just takes research and determination.

[Bostonian]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Jay peak had huge amounts of land and very few neighbors close by. They had the space and the water resources to build that water park. They also already had a ski mountain. If a waterpark were to be built in the area, I would look to Gunstock.

I live in the Weirs year round, and I can tell you without a doubt, its a ghost town in the winter. You have the Lobster Pound, Tower Hill Tavern and the Gringo and Looney Bin. The ONLY tourist type business open year round is Funspot. Everything else is boarded up.... In the winter people drive 45 minutes north to Lincoln... or to North Conway.

Even Meredith, with all of their NH Hospitality hotels, is a ghost town in the winter... with the obvious exception of Pond Hockey & Fishing Derby. I would love to know the occupancy rate in the Winter... my guess is 30% - maybe 40%.

You really only have a few pieces of property "in Play" at the Weirs and IMHO they are too small to make the Weirs a year round destination.

The Pier... been for sale forever. Minimal owner investment made to keep property up.

The Wide Open Saloon property.... but the Baldis didn't file a new site plan to rebuild on the old footprint within a year, so now the setbacks make the property very hard to build on.

The Waterslide property.... decent footprint with odd shaped sloped lot. Definitely buildable, perfect spot for a hotel. But the owner wants to lease it. You will see Beer tent & vendors there for bike week, maybe a clam shack in the yellow building. but little else.

The Surf Coaster property... been for sale forever. The city did vote in a zoning change to encourage a hotel complex there. But no nibbles.

The arcades.... minimal owner upkeep and while nostalgic, they are pretty run down.

The hotels 5 miles away in Meredith make it very hard for a hotel in the Weirs to be viable.

So what can the Weirs do different from Meredith and still attract people. My answer is the same that made the Weirs famous in the first place... Nightlife. Bars, restaurants, music venues. Give people a reason to come here. Relax the rules a little, let people walk around with liquor or beer (in plastic of course). Let the venues have outside music past 10:00pm. Maybe bend the rules so the Baldis or someone else can rebuild on the old Saloon footprint. Tax breaks to the property owners that do substantial upgrades to their properties... etc etc.

Woodsy

Woodsy,

While these points are very good observations, it still doesn't really address what can be done in terms of turning around the area. As indicated before, there needs to be long range planning and identifying a certain goals they want to attain. For example, just going on the city's website, their master plan is dated 2007, which is 7 years old already and very much outdated. One thing they can do, and there is state and/or Federal money available is to do streetscaping (trees, median strip and etc). Allow street vendors along the boulevard, and have licenses available annually. Again these are not earth changing moves, but it will allow for a better experience during the summer months. Partner with local area institutions to do a "Weirs Weekend" and etc - Discounts at local eateries and etc. Again this is where the city and local leaders are failing... Being reactive rather than pro-active.

It's a shame I live and work in Boston - as I would LOVE to get involved in the planning and restoration of a great lakeside draw.

[thebix]

http://laconiadailysun.com/index.php...or-master-plan

Director outlines timeline for development of new Laconia Master Plan
Published Date Wednesday, 14 May 2014 12:52
LACONIA — Planning Director Shanna Saunders outlined a budget of some $120,000, consisting entirely of grants, and timetable of between 24 and 30 months for the preparation and completion of a new Master Plan to the City Council this week.

Saunders told the councilors that the 2014-2015 budget appropriates $20,000 for the Master Plan, which together with equal appropriations in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 brings the total allocated for the project to $60,000. She explained that municipal funding would be offset in whole or in part by grants.

Saunders said that the Orton Family Foundation of Middlebury Vermont and Denver, Colorado has awarded the city $75,000 worth of in-kind technical services, including services, analysis, mapping, communication and outreach. The Carsey Institute of the University of New Hampshire, which administered the New Hampshire Listens program, has contributed similar services valued at $25,000. And the New Hampshire Charitable Foundation has underwritten the preparation of the Master with a cash grant of $20,000.

Saunders said that she expects to begin work on the Master Plan in June and complete the first four chapters of the plan — community character, land use, economic development and housing — in a year and aim to finish the other chapters — transportation, natural resources, cultural and historic resources and community facilities and services — by December 2016. State law recommends that municipalities revise their master plans every five to 10 years. The city last adopted its master plan in May, 2007.

[Happy Gourmand]

Sounds like they are planning to plan. That's akin to getting ready to get ready!
Many solid ideas have been presented, but the missing factor is money. What is really needed is a man (or woman) with a vision.....and the resources to implement on his ideas.
Master plans are great. You get a new one every 7 to 10 years according to the post above....at a current cost of about $20K.
And nothing changes.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Sounds like they are planning to plan. That's akin to getting ready to get ready!
Many solid ideas have been presented, but the missing factor is money. What is really needed is a man (or woman) with a vision.....and the resources to implement on his ideas.
Master plans are great. You get a new one every 7 to 10 years according to the post above....at a current cost of about $20K.
And nothing changes.

And nothing changes, except that people feel better about it knowing there is a plan and they stop voicing their opinions on the internet for a few years.

I would like to know how you get on the list to be paid $20K to come up with one of these plans? A few of these a year and I could golf as much as I want!

[jmen24]

Personally I think I am going to purchase one of these open lots and put up a parking garage. Think of all the Bike Week vendors I could get in there. I would also be in a position to capitalize on the new master plan that will transform the area in 2017 or was that 2008.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Sounds like they are planning to plan. That's akin to getting ready to get ready!
Many solid ideas have been presented, but the missing factor is money. What is really needed is a man (or woman) with a vision.....and the resources to implement on his ideas.
Master plans are great. You get a new one every 7 to 10 years according to the post above....at a current cost of about $20K.
And nothing changes.

Exactly. The plan gets written, then sits on a shelf. It is unlikely it will have any vision regarding a commercial remake of the area. It will mostly just document what's existing. It will take entrepreneurs, not politicians to remake Weirs.

[Diver Vince]

Well there is an established formula when dealing with a blighted area to resurrect it like the proverbial phoenix rising from the ashes. Case in point, look at Atlantic City NJ. Will it happen in the Weirs? From my point of view, slim to none (and Slim has been spotted leaving the building).
Bottom line is this state needs money and I am mystified why the legislation does not approve legalized casino gambling.

[BroadHopper]

The owner of Paradise Club sum it up nicely as to the fate of the Weirs in a recent article about extending the days for the Bike Week beer tents.
'When the owners want to go left, the council goes right. When the owners wants to go up the council goes down'. Seems like the Weirs business owners are at their wit ends!

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The owner of Paradise Club sum it up nicely as to the fate of the Weirs in a recent article about extending the days for the Bike Week beer tents.
'When the owners want to go left, the council goes right. When the owners wants to go up the council goes down'. Seems like the Weirs business owners are at their wit ends!

I do not have any inside info on this, but this is not the first time I have heard the Laconia City Council is not one bit interested in helping to address the issues at the Weirs. What do these folks think their job is? They have to work with the local business. Otherwise, we get negative progress and that is exactly what we have at the Weirs.

I saw one plan to address the issues and to me these issues are accurate and clearly defined. Now I am hearing another study to establish another Master Plan. Why not continue to work within the framework of the active plan? Why does that not make sense? I hope the Laconia City Council is aware of the existing plan. So frustrating.

R2B

[tis]

I don't know many towns where the councils or planning boards try to make it easy for businesses. Do you?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Diver Vince

Well there is an established formula when dealing with a blighted area to resurrect it like the proverbial phoenix rising from the ashes. Case in point, look at Atlantic City NJ. Will it happen in the Weirs? From my point of view, slim to none (and Slim has been spotted leaving the building).
Bottom line is this state needs money and I am mystified why the legislation does not approve legalized casino gambling.

As I understand it, legalized gambling in Atlantic City has done nothing to revitalize that seaside city. The ghetto still surrounds the casino enclave, the poor are still poor, nothing fundamental has changed. Please prove me wrong.

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

As I understand it, legalized gambling in Atlantic City has done nothing to revitalize that seaside city. The ghetto still surrounds the casino enclave, the poor are still poor, nothing fundamental has changed. Please prove me wrong.

I am not really opposed to legalized gambling but it does nothing for the economy. I lived in CT for 15 years and I can say with 100% confidence it did nothing for the taxes I paid. In fact at one point, both casinos in CT were in chapter 11 and it actually cost the state money.

Rather than continute to bash Laconia I would like to know if anyone actually has any insight as to who/what may be interested in the property?

[fatlazyless]

While I hope this doesn't happen, a Dunkin Donuts may be interested in that spot and that would be a year round business similar to the other DD's in Meredith, Laconia, Ashland, Bristol, and Campton. DD had a store nearby in the mini mall behind the Weirs post office which closed up due to lack of business but this new location has much better visibility.

..... say-hey.....maybe DD could build a moving sign that features a volcano-coffee-donuts design to help put it on the local map and blend with the Weirs.

That could be a pretty good location for a Dunkin Donuts; better than the Meredith and Ashland spots what with all the locals from Meredith who go past it enroute to Wal-Mart and Lowe's.

While I never-ever or almost never-ever go to Dunkin Donuts myself, that location could be a good one for a viable successfull all year around DD ...... it seems like an easy home run for DD ....or maybe a double or a triple ....but at any rate a good spot for the them.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkin'_Donuts ...... with 15,000 restaurants in 37 different countries .... and something like 7-billion dollars(?) in annual sales .....DD probably knows a good spot when it sees one and this seems like a great spot to me!

A Dunkin with a hillside waterfront view that looks down to welcome the sun every morning as the sun comes up over Governor's Island and the lake.

One donut costs something like 75-cents now which is pretty danged expensive for one lousy donut..... and with that fine waterfront view a DD would probably be an immediate hit with the Laconia Police Dept.

[RailroadJoe]

FLL Time for you to check out Dunkin Donuts. Last I knew they were 95 cents plus the 9% snack tax.

[Jeanzb1]

FLL: I paid exactly $1.00 for a DD donut at the Airport Deli DD in Gilford, not the 75 cents you made reference to. Outrageous!

[windsail]

It leaves a whole lot of big lake waterfront. That is where the millionaires buy. Perhaps not for cheesy places but the land is worth a lot. What does Alton, Meridith or even Wolfeboro have for kids? It's a great location on the lake. The lake and Mountains are what people come up for. Certainly not run down water slides. I have never seen a lack of boats in the area. Being new to the area I really don't know. But it seems like this may make a more attractive area, different but better. Does the land have to be sold as a business? No trees to cut. Laconia has a downtown, restaurants and stores that vacationers from other towns visit. Like I said I don't really know, just moved here.

[rander7823]

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

Ooooh, bop bop bop
Ooooh, bop bop bop

[pjard]

Rander, that's funny! Counting Crows version was much better. Paul Warnick did a hell of good version one night at Patrick's too! This whole thread has gone haywire.