Boating Accidents down in 2013

[Bear Islander]

I would have to agree that the "cowboy atmosphere" on the lake has been dropping since 2008. I think this has more to do with the drop in accidents than boater education.

The only change in boater education in 2008 was that operators over 50 years old needed certificates. It was phased in a little each year starting in 2002. I doubt operators over 50 were causing enough accidents to skew the data.

I think something else must have happened in 2008 to changed things on Winni.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I would have to agree that the "cowboy atmosphere" on the lake has been dropping since 2008. I think this has more to do with the drop in accidents than boater education.

The only change in boater education in 2008 was that operators over 50 years old needed certificates. It was phased in a little each year starting in 2002. I doubt operators over 50 were causing enough accidents to skew the data.

I think something else must have happened in 2008 to changed things on Winni.

Wasn't that the year the economy took a nose dive, and gas prices were at an all time high?

[DEJ]

I will side with the expert here and that is Lt Dunleavey who states "accidents down substantially in 2013 because of boater's safety course".

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I will side with the expert here and that is Lt Dunleavey who states "accidents down substantially in 2013 because of boater's safety course".

I have no idea what the reason is. However, the state official will always support the state's position. That is the way government works and why it is so dangerous. Learn to question authority.

[tis]

I don't think it has anything to do with the safety certificates/courses either. I haven't noticed a bit of difference in the way people drive boats since the certificates were required. In fact, maybe I see a lot drive worse?

[Seaplane Pilot]

They can spin and sugar coat it any way they want, but the fact remains that substantially less boat volume results in less accidents/incidents. On the other hand, I'd like to see what percentage of the accidents that they did record were caused by rental boats. You know, those people that are given the on-site "quiz" by the same guy that's renting the boat to someone? That same guy that will lose out on his $400.00 revenue if he flunks the person taking the test for not knowing the first thing about driving a boat, boating rules, or most importantly SAFETY.

They might as well implement the same policy for renting a plane at Laconia Airport. Take the quiz, jump in and take off.

[chipj29]

I can’t read the article, but is it the number of accidents that was lower, or the percentage of accidents?

If the number of accidents is lower, it could be because there are fewer boats on the lake.
If the percentage of accidents is lower, it could be because of many reasons as mentioned upthread.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by chipj29

I can’t read the article, but is it the number of accidents that was lower, or the percentage of accidents?

If the number of accidents is lower, it could be because there are fewer boats on the lake.
If the percentage of accidents is lower, it could be because of many reasons as mentioned upthread.

All the reductions are in raw counts not in percentage.

So a reduction of 4 accidents from 42 is about 10 percent in one year. All the article says about boat count is that it was around 93K registered statewide last year and well over 100K in 2007. So we need a little more data.

[Bear Islander]

Bureaucrats being what they are will always give full credit to the legislation they initiated, supported and endorsed.

They will not give due credit to legislation they disliked, fought against and had jammed down their throats.

That's just human nature.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

They will not give due credit to legislation they disliked, fought against and had jammed down their throats.

Especially if they know it is needless and virtually impossible to enforce or implement.

I am not sure what your definition of a bureaucrat is, but I do not consider the NH MP to be a bureaucracy.

[DEJ]

Ditto here on the bureaucrat thing. Marine Patrol is definately not a bureaucracy. They are professionals and from what I have witnessed tell it like it is.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Ditto here on the bureaucrat thing. Marine Patrol is definately not a bureaucracy. They are professionals and from what I have witnessed tell it like it is.

Merriam-Webster

bureaucrat

bu·reau·crat noun \ˈbyu̇r-ə-ˌkrat, ˈbyər-\

1. a person who is one of the people who run a government or big company and who does everything according to the rules of that government or company
2. a person who is part of a bureaucracy

[jrc]

I think the pejorative tone implies the second definition in these common definitions bureaucrat, but of course you knew that...


bu·reau·crat (byo͝or′ə-krăt′)
n.
1. An official of a bureaucracy.

2. An official who is rigidly devoted to the details of administrative procedure.


bu′reau·crat′ic adj.

bu′reau·crat′i·cal·ly adv.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

bureaucrat (ˈbjʊərəˌkræt)
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an official in a bureaucracy

2. an official who adheres to bureaucracy, esp rigidly
bureaucratism n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

bu•reau•crat (ˈbyʊər əˌkræt)

n.
1. an official of a bureaucracy.

2. an official who works by fixed routine without exercising intelligent judgment.

[1835–45; < French bureaucrate. See -crat]

bu`reau•crat′ic, adj.

bu`reau•crat′i•cal•ly, adv.

Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved

[DEJ]

Back on topic, no dictionary lesson needed. Lt. Dunleavey speaks his mind, he is a professional and from what I have witnessed tells it like it is. I trust his and only his judgement on this matter.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Back on topic, no dictionary lesson needed. Lt. Dunleavey speaks his mind, he is a professional and from what I have witnessed tells it like it is. I trust his and only his judgement on this matter.

In the first place CAPTAIN Dunleavy has had that rank for several years now.

In the second place I am glad to see your opinion of him has improved since you openly criticized his handling of the Erica Blizzard investigation.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

In the first place CAPTAIN Dunleavy has had that rank for several years now.

In the second place I am glad to see your opinion of him has improved since you openly criticized his handling of the Erica Blizzard investigation.

Thanks for the correction about CAPTAIN Dunleavey, that is a well deserved promotion.

Regarding Erica, I think many openly criticized him for that, everyone makes mistakes.

[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Thanks for the correction about CAPTAIN Dunleavey, that is a well deserved promotion.

Regarding Erica, I think many openly criticized him for that, everyone makes mistakes.

But you also said you trust his on only his judgment but now you agree he makes mistakes.
You would be fun in a deposition

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Thanks for the correction about CAPTAIN Dunleavey, that is a well deserved promotion.

Regarding Erica, I think many openly criticized him for that, everyone makes mistakes.

I must agree everyone makes mistakes. I think the Captain does a great job most of the time. Not giving due credit to 2008 legislation is one of his few mistakes.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Bureaucrats being what they are will always give full credit to the legislation they initiated, supported and endorsed.

They will not give due credit to legislation they disliked, fought against and had jammed down their throats.

That's just human nature.

All the more reason to keep the number of bureaucrats to a minimum as they serve no purpose what so ever!

Sadly the legislative process has become so toxic it's a wonder anything gets done... and when it does it's usually wrong.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

In the 1990's there was a significant crime drop n the nation. Politicians and law enforcement, of course, took the credit for the drop citing plans implemented by them. Turns out the data shows there were other factors involved that nobody really took into account.
I'm sure the drop in accidents on the lake has something to do with the boaters education course, it doesn't make you a good boater but it's better than nothing. I'm also sure, like the 90's crime drop, there's a lot more to the decrease than just a basic boating test.


Here were some factors that were thought to be the reason for the crime drop in the 90's but, according to the data weren't:
– The strong economy
– The increased use of capital punishment
– Innovative policing strategies
– Gun control laws
– Concealed weapons laws
– The aging of the population

On the other hand, these were four major factors that, according to the data, were responsible for the crime drop:
– Increased reliance on prisons
– Increased number of police
– The bursting of the crack bubble
– The legalization of abortion

This is a link to the paper written by one of the economists who studied the data. http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...yCrime2004.pdf

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

They can spin and sugar coat it any way they want, but the fact remains that substantially less boat volume results in less accidents/incidents. On the other hand, I'd like to see what percentage of the accidents that they did record were caused by rental boats. You know, those people that are given the on-site "quiz" by the same guy that's renting the boat to someone? That same guy that will lose out on his $400.00 revenue if he flunks the person taking the test for not knowing the first thing about driving a boat, boating rules, or most importantly SAFETY.

They might as well implement the same policy for renting a plane at Laconia Airport. Take the quiz, jump in and take off.

Well, the lake did just fine for the 100 or so years before the "test" and education were a requirement.

But: The onsite "quiz" (test) is by computer online with the state so the "guy that's renting the boat to someone" does not choose to pass or fail the individual, the state does. And, the Marine Patrol does random spot checks of the testing facility to ensure that the rules are being followed. And, the person operating the testing facility must take a state course to be certified to administer the test.

But: Didn't most of us start out without knowing a thing about driving a boat, boating rules or boating safety?

Most boating accidents continue to prove that no matter how many times the government tries you can't legislate common sense!

And, because you mentioned it: I had to take David Emerson at Laconia Airport for a ride in one of his airplanes before he would allow me to rent them!

[tis]

"You can't legislate common sense." You are so right! That applies to so many things.

I was in a boat as a baby so grew up watching my father drive and him teaching us. But if you didn't grow up that way, you of course just got in a boat and learned by yourself.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, the lake did just fine for the 100 or so years before the "test" and education were a requirement.

But: The onsite "quiz" (test) is by computer online with the state so the "guy that's renting the boat to someone" does not choose to pass or fail the individual, the state does. And, the Marine Patrol does random spot checks of the testing facility to ensure that the rules are being followed. And, the person operating the testing facility must take a state course to be certified to administer the test.

But: Didn't most of us start out without knowing a thing about driving a boat, boating rules or boating safety?

Most boating accidents continue to prove that no matter how many times the government tries you can't legislate common sense!

And, because you mentioned it: I had to take David Emerson at Laconia Airport for a ride in one of his airplanes before he would allow me to rent them!

I agree, we were fine for the last hundred years and they should have left things alone. But unfortunately, they didn't. Rather, they rammed feel-good legislation through under the guise of "SAFETY", but it really had little to do with safety. Because if it did, then they would require renters to go through the same test requirements as the State requires for a bona-fide Boater's Certificate.

Now, speaking of airplanes...Yes, you took Mr. Emerson for a ride in one of his planes before he let you rent. But, you had to have a pilot's license in order to do so. He can't rent to someone with no experience or license, which was my point.