Casting Near Boats and Docks

[SIKSUKR]

How about turning on ice bubblers or just starting up your boat engine to scare the fish. I'm sure they will move on quickly.

[camp guy]

Discussions regarding the 'rights' of people on the water vs the 'rights' of people near the water always disolve into arguments which miss the point entirely.

The point is, use of the Lake brings with it the necessity to exercise common sense and basic courtesy toward both other lake users and those on the shore. Period. Say again, Period.

All the State statutes and MP enforcement would be essentially unnecessary if people were just plain nice to each other.

Have a nice day.

[NH_boater]

I agree with ishoot308.

I fish from my Kayak almost every morning and I do cast around docks and boats (kind of). I have never hit a boat or dock as I know not to get too close. I would not want someone hitting my boat or dock with hooks or anything else. I never cast around swim platforms (don't want to leave a hook behind for some kid later) and I never cast with anyone in the water, or loons for that matter. Inflatables get lots of room.

I often strike up conversation with land owners (I am one too) that are enjoying their coffee, reading, painting or on their computer. I always apologize for disturbing their quiet morning. I have found this a nice way to open dialog and almost always results in friendly chatter. I have never had anyone comment about where or when or how I am fishing. I have even had multiple home owners tell me to get closer to their docks as they see 'big' fish hanging out all the time.

I do not have the patients for rude people and I believe that the onus is on the fisherman and home owner to live in harmony with one another. Either party can easily be a jerk and this makes both parties miserable.

It is perfectly legal for a fisherman to walk on and around someone else's dock (high water line). I just would not do it unless there were extreme circumstances.

I am sure there are plenty of fisherman who are real @$$es, just like I am sure the same can be said for many home owners. I am also sure that if I was more inconsiderate, I would find others to be the same.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I agree with ishoot308.



It is perfectly legal for a fisherman to walk on and around someone else's dock (high water line).

I was unaware that it is legal for someone to walk on my dock. Can you please provide the excerpt from the statutes that permit this action? I think most dock owners are unaware of this. Thanks.

[NH_boater]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I was unaware that it is legal for someone to walk on my dock. Can you please provide the excerpt from the statutes that permit this action? I think most dock owners are unaware of this. Thanks.

Littoral and riparian rights.

There are many of websites addressing these common laws, many with their own interpretations or clarifications. Loosely: The same common law that give the land owner the right to place a dock into public waters (with permits) and the right to have reasonable access to that dock from the water also requires the land owner to allow reasonable access to the shoreline/water up to the high water line on shore. A person walking the shoreline fishing, while below the high water line can legally cross your dock, as that dock is interfering with public access to the public water.

Of course in NH, a person can come right up on your land and are not trespassing unless the property is properly marked with no trespassing signs, making it a secured premises.
TITLE LXII - CRIMINAL CODE

Anyone who might be really concerned should read the laws carefully and possibly consult an Attorney.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I was unaware that it is legal for someone to walk on my dock. Can you please provide the excerpt from the statutes that permit this action? I think most dock owners are unaware of this. Thanks.

As an example...lets say someone is fly fishing in waders along the edges of the lake. As they walk and wade the edge casting, they come upon your dock. They have every legal right to climb up, onto and over your dock and continue on with their legal activity of fishing.

Your dock is over a public waterway. The public has the right to cross over it if it impedes a legal activity.

Hope this helps;

Dan

Edited to add: Google "Riparian Rights" for a more in depth view.

[NH_boater]

Not just someone walking the shore either. Anyone who legally anchors their boat and walks/swims in to the landowner's property has the same right as long as they stay below the high water line.

Very few boaters or fishers would actually do this but they have the right.

[dave603]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

As an example...lets say someone is fly fishing in waders along the edges of the lake. As they walk and wade the edge casting, they come upon your dock. They have every legal right to climb up, onto and over your dock and continue on with their legal activity of fishing.

Your dock is over a public waterway. The public has the right to cross over it if it impedes a legal activity.

Hope this helps;

Dan

Makes you wonder if they could actually use said dock and start fishing from the end of it? That part is over public waters also.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by dave603

Makes you wonder if they could actually use said dock and start fishing from the end of it? That part is over public waters also.

Yes they can...

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

It is perfectly legal for a fisherman to walk on and around someone else's dock (high water line). I just would not do it unless there were extreme circumstances.

I haven't heard this before? A dock is above the high water line, so I imagine it could be posted against trespassing - although few do.

[polarisman14]

Cut the line. That'll teach em'.

[ApS]

Some unseen fisherman cast an Alabama rig onto my dock, snagged an upright post, and had cut or broken the line himself. The rig looked interesting, so I held my hand under it, but missed on that chance to catch it. When I eventually brought it up with a large magnet, a large bass swam right over to it!

Last season, another pair of fishermen reported "No catches all day", so I started a quote by Henry David Thoreau, "Many men go fishing all of their lives..."

One fisherman in the boat then interrupted my version with, "...without knowing that it is not fish they are after."

Kinda fun...

[znh]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I agree with ishoot308.

I fish from my Kayak almost every morning and I do cast around docks and boats (kind of). I have never hit a boat or dock as I know not to get too close. I would not want someone hitting my boat or dock with hooks or anything else. I never cast around swim platforms (don't want to leave a hook behind for some kid later) and I never cast with anyone in the water, or loons for that matter. Inflatables get lots of room.

I often strike up conversation with land owners (I am one too) that are enjoying their coffee, reading, painting or on their computer. I always apologize for disturbing their quiet morning. I have found this a nice way to open dialog and almost always results in friendly chatter. I have never had anyone comment about where or when or how I am fishing. I have even had multiple home owners tell me to get closer to their docks as they see 'big' fish hanging out all the time.

I do not have the patients for rude people and I believe that the onus is on the fisherman and home owner to live in harmony with one another. Either party can easily be a jerk and this makes both parties miserable.

It is perfectly legal for a fisherman to walk on and around someone else's dock (high water line). I just would not do it unless there were extreme circumstances.

I am sure there are plenty of fisherman who are real @$$es, just like I am sure the same can be said for many home owners. I am also sure that if I was more inconsiderate, I would find others to be the same.

Where do you go out in your kayak ?

I also fish often in the early morning from my kayak and will weave in and out of mooring fields, go near the docks and stuff but would NEVER even think of casting near anyone boat's or other property. I only cast around docks that have no boats or PWC's there. I've also only experienced good people waving or saying a simple good morning, I think if they see my intentions are good they have no problem with me being close to their house.

As for the OP, next time they come just start blasting some loud crappy music or start slapping the water with a paddle or anything that will make them think you are scaring the fish away...

[NH_boater]

Originally Posted by znh

Where do you go out in your kayak ?

I also fish often in the early morning from my kayak and will weave in and out of mooring fields, go near the docks and stuff but would NEVER even think of casting near anyone boat's or other property. I only cast around docks that have no boats or PWC's there. I've also only experienced good people waving or saying a simple good morning, I think if they see my intentions are good they have no problem with me being close to their house.

As for the OP, next time they come just start blasting some loud crappy music or start slapping the water with a paddle or anything that will make them think you are scaring the fish away...

I fish for smallies primarily in Alton Bay and Robert's Cove. Send me a PM if you want to join up.

I never power-cast a lure towards a boat. I may cast towards an empty dock though. I have been known to flip a jig near docks and boats (probably 5 or 6 feet away). Flipping a jig, for those not familiar, is a controlled underhand cast where you can generally pin-point your aim to the size of a dinner plate or so. This is a very productive fishing technique when the fish are lurking under docks and moored boats. I am comfortable with this approach and have never come close to hitting someone's boat.

Docks and boats can produce smallies, but rock piles and ledges, found by my fish finder are usually much more productive so that is where I fish most often.

[MeredithMan]

So I am intrigued by the commentary that people have a right to walk on or possibly use a person's dock--which the dockowner paid for and is their private property--because it is in or over public waters.

I have waterfront property and I have a legally permitted dock and a legally permitted mooring, both of which I bought. There is a public access beach area not too far from my property and at times, some of the beachgoers have paddled their floats/air mattresses out to my mooring and tied up, floating in the water, (my boat was at the dock). When this has happened, I have said, "excuse me, that is my mooring; it's not for public use". Most times, they leave without issue. Once in a while, some 20-something will give me some lip, but eventually moves on.

I called the Moorings folks at Dept of Safety in Belmont and asked if I was actually ok in telling the floaters to leave my mooring, since it is in public waters. I was told that although the lake is public waters, the mooring is private property, since I own it, and therefore the floaters can be told to leave. I was further told that if they don't leave, I should call Marine Patrol.

This brings me back to the dock issue. Why wouldn't the same logic apply? The dock is private property that was purchased by the homeowner. If a boater or fisherman is in distress and needs safe haven, I am totally fine with them accessing and/or using my dock. If they begin to use it for their own enjoyment or amusement, they are trespassing and need to leave immediately.

MM

[LastonBoard]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

So I am intrigued by the commentary that people have a right to walk on or possibly use a person's dock--which the dockowner paid for and is their private property--because it is in or over public waters.

I have waterfront property and I have a legally permitted dock and a legally permitted mooring, both of which I bought. There is a public access beach area not too far from my property and at times, some of the beachgoers have paddled their floats/air mattresses out to my mooring and tied up, floating in the water, (my boat was at the dock). When this has happened, I have said, "excuse me, that is my mooring; it's not for public use". Most times, they leave without issue. Once in a while, some 20-something will give me some lip, but eventually moves on.

I called the Moorings folks at Dept of Safety in Belmont and asked if I was actually ok in telling the floaters to leave my mooring, since it is in public waters. I was told that although the lake is public waters, the mooring is private property, since I own it, and therefore the floaters can be told to leave. I was further told that if they don't leave, I should call Marine Patrol.

This brings me back to the dock issue. Why wouldn't the same logic apply? The dock is private property that was purchased by the homeowner. If a boater or fisherman is in distress and needs safe haven, I am totally fine with them accessing and/or using my dock. If they begin to use it for their own enjoyment or amusement, they are trespassing and need to leave immediately.

MM

Yes it would follow that logic. The dock permit/ easement issued by the state gives you the right to place your private property on land held in a public trust. The fact that it sits on property held in a public trust does not make it a public dock.

"The New Hampshire Supreme Court has held that riparian property-owners have rights which are more extensive than those of the public generally on certain areas of the water.8 The right to “use and occupy the waters adjacent to their shore for a variety of recreational purposes” is an incidental property right associated with ownership of riparian property.9 Riparian property-owners may “wharf out” to access the water, but they may not unreasonably interfere with the public’s use of the water. Such riparian rights, however, “are always subject to the paramount right of the State to control them reasonably in the interests of navigation, water storage and classification, health and other public purposes.”10

[NH_boater]

It is a little bit like buying a dock and locating it in the middle of a state park. The dock owner may have bought the dock but they did not buy the park it is sitting on. Someone may want to play where the dock is sitting, or cross it to get to where they are going.

"......but they may not unreasonably interfere with the public’s use of the water.

Now the term 'unreasonable' is the subject of the discussion. I do not know about a person sitting and fishing from the owners dock (perhaps this is acceptable) but MP seems to find it reasonable that a person can walk across your dock to get from one side to the other, as it is in their way on a public lake.

The laws are common laws, dating back a long time, and are active in most states. I believe that different states (and judges) interpret them differently, as they do trespassing violations.

I do not think this is a big deal, or something to get excited about.

[Pineedles]

I am quite surprised to learn that dock owners have few rights. Wouldn't it be a kick to appear before the local town's tax assessment group and ask for an easement of taxes due to reduced rights of enjoyment of shore frontage? I've never had such issues with fishermen crossing or casting from my dock, but to read the responses given from learned posters, I am concerned that I really don't have many rights as a shorefront owner. It would be interesting to see how one of the McMansion owners handled legal trespassers, when push came to shove.

[LastonBoard]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I am quite surprised to learn that dock owners have few rights. Wouldn't it be a kick to appear before the local town's tax assessment group and ask for an easement of taxes due to reduced rights of enjoyment of shore frontage? I've never had such issues with fishermen crossing or casting from my dock, but to read the responses given from learned posters, I am concerned that I really don't have many rights as a shorefront owner. It would be interesting to see how one of the McMansion owners handled legal trespassers, when push came to shove.

As a waterfront owner you do have more rights than the general public, e.g the ability to occupy the water adjacent to your property (with proper permits). The state through the permit process controls the "unreasonable-ness" of that access basically by approving the size and length of the dock. If you conform to the permit, Joe Public cannot come in and claim your dock is unreasonable and impedes access - by granting the permit the state has already determined it does not.

[MikeF-NH]

I see both sides to this story:
1.) as a bass fisherman, I firmly believe that all water on the lake is open for public use including water under a dock/boat. If a home owner were nasty to me I might be tempted to remind them of that and that the law protects my right to fish that water if that person chooses to call a Conservation Officer. BUT BUT BUT
2.) as a person that likes to enjoy my time on the water, I think it is my responsibility to respect other people enjoying the water. As such, if there is anyone around the dock (on it or in the water), I cruise on by with a friendly wave and "hi how's it going?" and ask others in my boat to not cast until we pass the area.

I like to think I extend common courtesy and expect it back. If I get unsolicited grief from a shore front owner because I dared casting to his dock when he was looking out the kitchen window (and my sons are not on board), I don't mind returning the favor.

Also, if I or someone in my boat accidentally hooks a dock or line, I ALWAYS remove the hook. I never cast (or allow my guest to cast) toward a boat that has a cloth cover or other upholstery that may be damaged by hooking.

Again, this is a courtesy issue (from both sides). I only get involved with these discussions when people suggest that they have a right to push people away from their property. Ask nicely and most fishermen will leave. Act nasty and expect back what you gave. JMHO

[NH_boater]

Originally Posted by MikeF-NH

I like to think I extend common courtesy and expect it back. If I get unsolicited grief from a shore front owner because I dared casting to his dock when he was looking out the kitchen window (and my sons are not on board), I don't mind returning the favor.

Agree. As a lakefront property owner, boater and fisher, I have numerous perspectives. Most people should make an attempt to start with kindness and respect. You reap what you sow.

Unfortunately, too many people (home owners, boaters, and fishers alike) default to the negative. I feel sorry for them as life is too short to live your life in this manner.

[NHTom]

Had this clarified by Marine Patrol once.


their answer was that you only own to the high water line..........anything else is a privilege.

I asked "So late summer when the lake is down, someone could have a picnic on my beach and no one could stop them?" The answer was YES.

I've been fishing and had people come running down their lawn screaming at me that I cant' come within 150 of their beach.......lol. I politely explain that 150 is the no wake limit and anyone can come closer at headway speed.

I have had people politely ask me if I could move along from their property and I always do. If they come at me screaming, swearing, even throwing rocks has happened..........you can bet I'll stay all day and call fish and game for sportsman harassment issues also.

I've even been told I'm "not allowed to catch MY fish" by land owners.......and I practice catch and release.

Tom

[znh]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I fish for smallies primarily in Alton Bay and Robert's Cove. Send me a PM if you want to join up.

I never power-cast a lure towards a boat. I may cast towards an empty dock though. I have been known to flip a jig near docks and boats (probably 5 or 6 feet away). Flipping a jig, for those not familiar, is a controlled underhand cast where you can generally pin-point your aim to the size of a dinner plate or so. This is a very productive fishing technique when the fish are lurking under docks and moored boats. I am comfortable with this approach and have never come close to hitting someone's boat.

Docks and boats can produce smallies, but rock piles and ledges, found by my fish finder are usually much more productive so that is where I fish most often.

Thanks for the invite but a bit far to me to paddle to I'm in Gilford on the Broads and usually paddle out to Welch or Diamond...