Island Living Questions

[Leoskeys]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

Correct, the tax rate is the same in Gilford whether island property or mainland. The only difference is island property is considered seasonal yet you pay taxes year round.

Dan

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Correct, the tax rate is the same in Gilford whether island property or mainland. The only difference is island property is considered seasonal yet you pay taxes year round.

Dan

Thanks, Dan! And let's not forget that if you are an out-of stater, you cannot vote on local issues--like reducing taxes.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

Right you are. But just start paying that tax for only a summer vacation and it will seem like an island tax, for sure!

[Leoskeys]

I see your point. Tax bill divided by 6 months is tough! So it can seem like twice as much.

[wifi]

I think the universal theory goes like: if someone owns property, regardless of where they live, they owe taxes on it. Its like if I take a month vacation in Europe, can I just tell the town I won't pay taxes for that month? Noooo..

As far as voting, if I bought a place in Boston, because I liked looking at the snow, could I vote to lower taxes in Boston? Noooooo..

Not looking to start controversy, its just the way it is all over the US and is what someone must accept when buying anywhere in a town they don't live in.

[RLW]

Leoskeys, I was just browsing through the forum and noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

I think the universal theory goes like: if someone owns property, regardless of where they live, they owe taxes on it. Its like if I take a month vacation in Europe, can I just tell the town I won't pay taxes for that month? Noooo..

As far as voting, if I bought a place in Boston, because I liked looking at the snow, could I vote to lower taxes in Boston? Noooooo..

Not looking to start controversy, its just the way it is all over the US and is what someone must accept when buying anywhere in a town they don't live in.

As far as painful taxes go, that's no balm.
Wasn't there a war somewhere about taxation without representation?
I'm old and forgetful:

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MDoug

As far as painful taxes go, that's no balm.
Wasn't there a war somewhere about taxation without representation?
I'm old and forgetful:

I was simply pointing out how this is SOP in the US and not a unique problem in the Lakes Region (to bring this discussion back home). Perhaps a constitutional amendment can be made that gives everyone one vote for each piece of land they own. This would bring on a host of other problems..... including zoning boards being overloaded with people subdividing

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

I was simply pointing out how this is SOP in the US and not a unique problem in the Lakes Region (to bring this discussion back home). Perhaps a constitutional amendment can be made that gives everyone one vote for each piece of land they own. This would bring on a host of other problems..... including zoning boards being overloaded with people subdividing

When I took freshman English long ago, that was known as oversimplifying, was it not?

[Donzi Minx]

What great threads, and as always an amazing forum. I looked out at Diamond and Rattlesnake from the family property in West Alton, and as a kid it felt like reaching out to the stars. We always watched the lights on Diamond the slight generator ebb, and pulse. Of course we had the versatility of good old Route 11, and The Wise Owl, living on the mainland. Two summers at Camp Idlewild made a believer out of me though, I loved that rustic element of island living even though it was during the late 60's. Now that I no longer have the "chores" of opening / closing the family cottage in West Alton, and checking on it in the winter months the lure to get away from Boston, and back to paradise seems to be my only retirement goal! Someday....maybe.

[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by Donzi Minx

Two summers at Camp Idlewild made a believer out of me though, I loved that rustic element of island living even though it was during the late 60's

DM - we may have crossed paths, I was at Camp Idlewild in '67 and '68 and loved 'island life' there too... so much so that I started looking for property in the early '90s (including a lot on Cow where the old amphitheater was), and ended up buying on Pine in 1998...

Couldn't be happier with the island decision, and waking up last Saturday morning and looking out across the frozen expanse... spectacular!!!

Don't let go of the dream... they really can come true!! -PIG

[Leoskeys]

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

DM - we may have crossed paths, I was at Camp Idlewild in '67 and '68 and loved 'island life' there too... so much so that I started looking for property in the early '90s (including a lot on Cow where the old amphitheater was), and ended up buying on Pine in 1998...

Couldn't be happier with the island decision, and waking up last Saturday morning and looking out across the frozen expanse... spectacular!!!

Don't let go of the dream... they really can come true!! -PIG

Pine Island Fuy,
Sounds like you use the home in the winter some? Do you hike out, snowmobile, drive?

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MDoug

When I took freshman English long ago, that was known as oversimplifying, was it not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

From your link--

Baker then notices that principles, including Occam's razor, are often expressed in a way that is not clear regarding which facet of "simplicity” — parsimony or elegance — is being referred to, and that in a hypothetical formulation the facets of simplicity may work in different directions: a simpler description may refer to a more complex hypothesis, and a more complex description may refer to a simpler hypothesis.[b]

[jazzman]

It all works out in the end.... Island properties are expensive to get to, expensive to maintain and accessible only for 6 months, so property costs about 1/3 of what the same house would cost on the mainland shore. You pay taxes on the value of the property, so they're much cheaper too.

[Diana]

We are on an "unimproved" island, no electricity. The property value is easily 5 times that of the buildings on the assessment. But they measure your shoreline and figure that into the taxes, as well as a "view tax". Plus it is different from town to town.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Diana

We are on an "unimproved" island, no electricity. The property value is easily 5 times that of the buildings on the assessment. But they measure your shoreline and figure that into the taxes, as well as a "view tax". Plus it is different from town to town.

There is no such thing as a "view tax" or a "waterfront tax". The tax rate is exactly the same no matter where you are. It is simply based on the assessed value of the property multiplied by the tax rate. It is really not that complicated. If your property is worth more because you have a great view or it is on the water then it is valued higher by the assessor. But there is no different tax rate that depends on the location or the view.

Another post referred to the seasonal use of island property and the fact that they are taxed year round. That is true but the island property may have a lower assessed value because of that island location and that will be reflected in the real estate taxes.

If you have a condo boat slip, such as at Mountain View Yacht Club, you pay the same tax rate but cannot use any town services like the library or the town beach, even though you are a Gilford taxpayer.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

There is no such thing as a "view tax" or a "waterfront tax". The tax rate is exactly the same no matter where you are. It is simply based on the assessed value of the property multiplied by the tax rate. It is really not that complicated. If your property is worth more because you have a great view or it is on the water then it is valued higher by the assessor. But there is no different tax rate that depends on the location or the view.

Another post referred to the seasonal use of island property and the fact that they are taxed year round. That is true but the island property may have a lower assessed value because of that island location and that will be reflected in the real estate taxes.

If you have a condo boat slip, such as at Mountain View Yacht Club, you pay the same tax rate but cannot use any town services like the library or the town beach, even though you are a Gilford taxpayer.

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

Told the wife Tilton BB and WiFi said there are no island or view taxes.
"Oh, Goodie!" she exclaimed. Now we can afford a new refrigerator."

[tis]

Our assessments do actually show if you are paying extra for a view or for waterfront or for a sandy beach or more water frontage etc. I think when people got upset about this was when they first started SHOWING it people actually SAW that they were being taxed extra for these things, even though they were always being charged for them because it made their property more valuable as TTB said. And TTB is right, the assessment is the same per thousand for everybody in their town. It's just how many thousands do they think your property is worth that makes up your tax bill.

[SAMIAM]

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

[WakeboardMom]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

Moultonborough has one of the best school systems in the state. I pay plenty of taxes to M'borough and have never used the school system. Your plan would open the can of worms that everyone has some reason they should be an exception.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by WakeboardMom

Moultonborough has one of the best school systems in the state. I pay plenty of taxes to M'borough and have never used the school system. Your plan would open the can of worms that everyone has some reason they should be an exception.

I am sure the British thought the same thing when we protested the stamp act a while back!

The exception proves the rule.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

As TiltonBB said island appraisals are lower than waterfront mainland so while our tax rate is the same we do pay less because of the lower appraisal. I do wish it was lower however but who doesn't!

Dan

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

Our assessments do actually show if you are paying extra for a view or for waterfront or for a sandy beach or more water frontage etc. I think when people got upset about this was when they first started SHOWING it people actually SAW that they were being taxed extra for these things, even though they were always being charged for them because it made their property more valuable as TTB said. And TTB is right, the assessment is the same per thousand for everybody in their town. It's just how many thousands do they think your property is worth that makes up your tax bill.

Many things are itemized on your assessment such as the value placed on the land, buildings, garage, out buildings (such as a tool shed) docks, waterfront, breakwater, seawall, and yes, even the view. The total value of all of these things is multiplied by the tax rate in your community and that is how your tax bill is computed.

I think in the past people have thought there is a "View Tax" like it is a separate tax that you pay. If you are going to break it down like that then guess the same person would say that there is a dock tax, a tool shed tax, a garage tax, a driveway tax, Etc.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Many things are itemized on your assessment such as the value placed on the land, buildings, garage, out buildings (such as a tool shed) docks, waterfront, breakwater, seawall, and yes, even the view. The total value of all of these things is multiplied by the tax rate in your community and that is how your tax bill is computed.

I think in the past people have thought there is a "View Tax" like it is a separate tax that you pay. If you are going to break it down like that then guess the same person would say that there is a dock tax, a tool shed tax, a garage tax, a driveway tax, Etc.

Back to English 101 and logical fallacies, isn't that reductio ad absurdum?

[Happy Gourmand]

Less than 75' from my property is a lot with a house on it. The town has assessed the LAND at $100,000. The lake is not easily seen from this lot. My lot, less that 75' away has a "view" of the lake, somewhat obstructed, but a view nonetheless. My little lot, land only, about the same size as the aformentioned lot is assessed by the Town of Meredith for $200,000.
View tax? You tell me.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

Less than 75' from my property is a lot with a house on it. The town has assessed the LAND at $100,000. The lake is not easily seen from this lot. My lot, less that 75' away has a "view" of the lake, somewhat obstructed, but a view nonetheless. My little lot, land only, about the same size as the aformentioned lot is assessed by the Town of Meredith for $200,000.
View tax? You tell me.

100K seems a bit steep, are the rest of the land improvements between the two lots in question in kind or do you have newer or better improvements? How about the characteristics of the lots, there are so many factors that can go into determining value even two lots side by side can vary widely in value even if they are the same size and mere feet apart. End of the day if you think you're getting the raw end of the deal the town does have to justify their numbers to you just as you do to them if you think they are in error. Doesn't hurt to ask them how they came to the valuation and on what comparable properties they are basing it on.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

Less than 75' from my property is a lot with a house on it. The town has assessed the LAND at $100,000. The lake is not easily seen from this lot. My lot, less that 75' away has a "view" of the lake, somewhat obstructed, but a view nonetheless. My little lot, land only, about the same size as the aformentioned lot is assessed by the Town of Meredith for $200,000.
View tax? You tell me.

I had a similar problem regarding my land in Gilford. I went to town hall and looked at the lot plans for other house lots on my street that were similar in size to check the value that the town had placed on them. It was roughly the same as mine. However, my land was much steeper and although there was 100 feet on the water on my land there is only 50 feet at the street. The other lots had 100 feet on the water and 100 feet at the street.

I was able to come up with 4 comps to illustrate my point. I applied for an abatement and pointed out that with a required 25 foot sideline setback, a large portion of my land was virtually unbuildable. I also pointed out that the other lots were closer to level than mine. They agreed and my assessed land value was dropped by about $100,000.

If you take the time to do the homework and present a reasonable argument (without arguing) the system works.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

As Oscar Wilde penned, "The truth is rarely pure and never simple."

[phoenix]

I live in an area where most houses have an acre. Until a couple of years ago we all had the same assessment for the land portion . Starting a couple of years ago my land assessment went up higher than any neighbors since with my acre I have a little more waterfront. In this case I really doubt my value is higher from a sales point of view but they think it is and when I asked they said more waterfront higher value

[wifi]

The value of a property to me (in my very limited sensibility, as claimed by certain posters) is the value that it sold for. So, if you bought a property for $100K, that is the value you should be taxed on the first year, then every year after the cost of living is added on. There are/were states that did that. Which they are, I leave to your own personal googling ability, so as not to start more nit picking controversies. Assessors just guess and base it on some arbitrary/argued formulas that aren't fair.

My neighbors house is on the market for an obscene value. If it sells, my taxes will go up, why? I don't even live on an island !

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by wifi

The value of a property to me (in my very limited sensibility, as claimed by certain posters) is the value that it sold for. So, if you bought a property for $100K, that is the value you should be taxed on the first year, then every year after the cost of living is added on. There are/were states that did that. Which they are, I leave to your own personal googling ability, so as not to start more nit picking controversies. Assessors just guess and base it on some arbitrary/argued formulas that aren't fair.

My neighbors house is on the market for an obscene value. If it sells, my taxes will go up, why? I don't even live on an island !

Wifi: If it sells that is the "market Value" and it is the best and only fair way to determine property taxes. Be thankful you have a nice property that has appreciated over time. I'm pretty sure that if your neighbor's house sells and you subsequently decide to move you will cite his property sale when setting your "obscene" asking price.

[jazzman]

In the end your assessment is supposed to be tied to the real market value of your property. A house on the water or with a view of the water will usually have a higher market value.... A house with a breakwater will have more value than a house without one.

I bought my house in Alton after it sat on the market for 2 years for under the appraised value. I called the tax office and they adjusted the tax value to something close to what I paid.

[Leoskeys]

Back to "Island Living"'. For a home on an island without electricity, is a propane generator and/or solar panels the best bet? A few lights are one thing,but got to assume a fridge is going to require some solid power. Probably other things that suck power i'm not thinking of. For instance, how would you get wi-fi for to track weather, etc?

[jazzman]

Most people use propane powered fridges...

You can also look at a generator that charges a set of batteries that in turn produce 120v ac power through an inverter. You can also connect some solar panels to the system as well if you have a good south exposure. This way you only have to run a generator a few hours a day. When I was looking at a place on Diamond a couple years back, the cost was going to be around 10k.

I must say I'm glad I ended up on an island with power. There are enough complications with island living without having to constantly nurse a power system.

I also worried about the noise factor of living on an island with a lot of generators.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Back to "Island Living"'. For a home on an island without electricity, is a propane generator and/or solar panels the best bet? A few lights are one thing,but got to assume a fridge is going to require some solid power. Probably other things that suck power i'm not thinking of. For instance, how would you get wi-fi for to track weather, etc?

For internet access, there's always wireless broadband such as Verizon, which has pretty good coverage on the lake. For power, I would opt for BOTH generator and solar as you could probably run off solar for 90% of the time but would have the generator for backup if extended bad weather precluded solar charging or if you had a high demand that exceeded your solar capacity for a short period.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Mike, when it's time to actually go out and look at island properties, I highly recommend that you give Nancy DePorter of Keller Williams Lakes and Mountains Realty a call. 603-498-3573 Nancy is absolutely wonderful and is a knowledgable islander and is a well seasoned boater. Tell her that RG sent ya! We listed our place with her last season and will relist with her as soon as the camp is ready at ice-out.
(There have been some major life events in our family over the past year plus, which made us reevaluatie our life's goals and dreams - it's time for us to do some traveling. I do know that letting go isn't going to be easy... You can take the gal off the island, but you could never take the island out of this Gal. Lake Winnipesaukee will always be in my heart and soul. Sniff!)

Having a place on The Broads has been nothing short of amazing!!! Clean water, wide open spaces and in our case, a super private and deep dock spot. We loved every second of our time spent at here and know that the next family will make life long treasured memories too.

Just to add a little bit more information, not all properties Broads side need a breakwater. We purchased our place that has a u-shaped dock back in 2003. We immediately put in oversized (for our 21' boat) whips and have never, ever had an issue of any kind... In any weather. In our case, there is a jog in the island just where our lot starts, which does act as a deflector of sorts for the waves. I certainly would not leave our boat out there in a hurricane, but otherwise, there is no weather that I would not feel comfortable out there in. Last year we only used the whips once. The rest of the time a super large bumper at the bow on the shore side and a snubber at the stern was absolutely adequate.

Best of luck to you and your family, RidgeRunner31! I hope that you find your piece of Lake Winnipesaukee heaven! If you ever would like to talk island living, please feel free to PM me for my number. R-Guy and I have gained a lot of lake/island knowledge over these past thirteen years and would love to share what we've learned with you.

Sincerely,

Celia