"Educating" those danged Winnipesaukee boaters

winnilaker · 12-20-2005, 12:34 PM

#1
In the recent article from the citizen I believe this was stated:

"Also supporting the bill are numerous conservation groups, such as the Audubon Society, the Appalachian Mountain Club and the New Hampshire Lakes Association."

Not sure if anyone got the recent New Hampshire Lakes Association mailer looking for more donations to help fight their causes. Guess what bullet #4 was, representing usage of our lakes that they want to protect?

"* A young man speeds by in his new motorboat (a lifelong dream come true), reliving his memories of his first water skiiing lesson with his dad."

For once I agree with NHLA, I look forward to the day when my children get to experience the excitement of this beautiful lake speeding in a new motorboat. However I find it ironic that they support the speed limit and they are the ones that wanted it on all NH lakes, waterways.

#2
It's been stated that this law would have prevented that unfortunate accident, at 28 mph, that's only 3 mph above the proposed speed limit. However, that same Citizen article:
"Helve said the law is not designed to assure the issuance of tickets to people going two or three miles over the proposed limit, but rather to give reckless boaters something to think about when they hit the throttle.
"

So what is it then to prevent accidents or not???

#3
It's been stated that the bill IS NOT aimed at performance boats. However this response from the bill's sponsor says it quite differently:

"Fear. It has nothing to do with death rate, or anything else, the numbers of arrests for speed and all the rest of it. It has to with a lack of courtesy on the part of the, I’ll call them ocean going vessels, like your own, the Donzi’s and the rest of them. "

If you read that carefully, notice it says the vessels have lack of courtesy, not the people. So if that's not obvious enough, that the boats are the problems, why not come out and be honest with everyone about it!!!

I'll stop with three for now.

Bear Lover · 12-20-2005, 01:15 PM

winnilaker

None of these arguments hold water, in my opinion.

1. The young man speeding by in his motorboat could be going 35 or 45. And I doubt if dad was going over 45 during his first waterskiing lesson.

I hope you children do get the experience, and that they keep it at 45 or less.

2. The Littlefield boat was going over the proposed speed limit. I don't care even one little bit about the arguments and quibbles about this. 28 is more than 25, END OF STORY.

Sandy's opinion of what the law was intended to do doesn't matter. 68% of NH voters support a speed limit, THAT MATTERS!

3. I guess in your mind you can disconnect fear from safety. But fear is the manifestation of unsafe conditions. The lessening of safety on the lake creates fear in the minds of boaters. This fear inspires them to request and support legislation.

BroadHopper · 12-20-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

to winnilaker

3. I guess in your mind you can disconnect fear from safety. But fear is the manifestation of unsafe conditions. The lessening of safety on the lake creates fear in the minds of boaters. This fear inspires them to request and support legislation.

Then why don't you PROMOTE safety??? If that is the problem.
Creating more laws do not PROMOTE safety. It creates more confusion and work for the MP.

Cal · 12-20-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

winnilaker
28 is more than 25, END OF STORY.

ESTIMATED 28 might be more than 25. Then again maybe not.
Get the "facts"straight! please

winnilaker · 12-20-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

3. I guess in your mind you can disconnect fear from safety. But fear is the manifestation of unsafe conditions. The lessening of safety on the lake creates fear in the minds of boaters. This fear inspires them to request and support legislation.

I fear driving my motorcycle in Boston, its unsafe. Your approach would be to eliminate trucks and cabs, correct? Don't I have the right to feel safe driving in Boston on my motorcycle. Or would most people just say "you're crazy, go use your motorcycle in the country where there is less traffic"

With all the accidents on our highways, WHY don't we just lower everything to 45, that sure would make my grandmother feel safer driving on the highways. Her words "crazy people out there driving fast"

If you want to compare boating with driving, let's look at the demographics of the ages with the most accidents (the young and the elderly). Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of injury-related death for people ages 65-74 and second only to falls for those 75-84, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.You want to make the lake safer let's target them, there are statistics that prove this. However, I bet that would not go over well with the Bear Island crew. I was at the first hearing, needless to say there was a generation gap, pro HB162 and oppose HB162.

I, however, would oppose targeting them, it's discriminatory. If you want really want to make the lake safer, why not point out the problems, exactly? I happen to know a bunch of responsible boaters who would gladly help find resolution to the few bad apples. Shouldn't be hard to find them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boater

Geez Woodsy, I'm really surprised that after all the debate here, you still try to spin this into a discrimination issue.

See my previous post of the response of the bill's sponsor, how do you interpret that?? Is it ONLY the ocean going vessels that lack courtesy? Any statistics to prove that??

Hottrucks · 12-20-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

winnilaker

None of these arguments hold water, in my opinion.

1. The young man speeding by in his motorboat could be going 35 or 45. And I doubt if dad was going over 45 during his first water skiing lesson.

I hope you children do get the experience, and that they keep it at 45 or less.

2. The Littlefield boat was going over the proposed speed limit. I don't care even one little bit about the arguments and quibbles about this. 28 is more than 25, END OF STORY.

Sandy's opinion of what the law was intended to do doesn't matter. 68% of NH voters support a speed limit, THAT MATTERS!

1) Speeding is relevant to the equipment and qualification of the operator

2) If Joe officer was sitting at the end of your road with radar you would have a driving record that read like a calendar day after day all at 3 or more over the posted speed limit.

Sandy's opinion is as good as anyones because like the rest of us it's the opinions that matter. As far as 68% of the voters Big questions to be answered
1) are these people Boaters??
2) do they live on lakes??
3) where do they live?? only the voices of the Winnie area where heard? and it now cover all the lake in the state? I think all should be heard!!

I would just like to see educated voters thats all. I think that some of the Reps up north no nothing about this or probably care not too, just don't cut one of their trees or close another Mill.

hey Boater which website I would like to read what else I'm missing??

Woodsy · 12-20-2005, 03:35 PM

Boater...

1. If safety is the primary concern and the reason behind HB-162, why did Rep. Pilliod say it wasn't?

2. Where is the accident data to support your belief that Lake Winnipesaukee isn't safe? Specifically, where is the accident data that points to excessive speed (over 45mph) as a major factor in boating accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee?

3. As far as marinas and hotels that support the issue, how many of them are in the boat rental business? How many of them are like Rusty McClear and think its perfectly ok to rent a boat on a busy summer weekend to someone who has no prior experience boating? All the renter has to do is a 20 question checklist? As long as they can afford the $200/hr its perfectly acceptable? Can you imagine if we rented cars & motorcycles with nothing but a 20 question checklist? But for some reason this is acceptable with a boat?

4. Tell me why is it the marina/hotel rental customers feel threatened? Because of speeding boats? Not likely, especially as speed is extremely difficult to judge on the water, as is distance. Perhaps it is as Rusty McClear said in his story, the rental customer was upset because nobody told them that the lake is busy, especially on summer weekends. But its not Rusty's responsibility to tell his rental customers...

Woodsy

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12-20-2005, 12:34 PM	#1
winnilaker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How about a contradictory message? #1 In the recent article from the citizen I believe this was stated: "Also supporting the bill are numerous conservation groups, such as the Audubon Society, the Appalachian Mountain Club and the New Hampshire Lakes Association." Not sure if anyone got the recent New Hampshire Lakes Association mailer looking for more donations to help fight their causes. Guess what bullet #4 was, representing usage of our lakes that they want to protect? "* A young man speeds by in his new motorboat (a lifelong dream come true), reliving his memories of his first water skiiing lesson with his dad." For once I agree with NHLA, I look forward to the day when my children get to experience the excitement of this beautiful lake speeding in a new motorboat. However I find it ironic that they support the speed limit and they are the ones that wanted it on all NH lakes, waterways. #2 It's been stated that this law would have prevented that unfortunate accident, at 28 mph, that's only 3 mph above the proposed speed limit. However, that same Citizen article: "Helve said the law is not designed to assure the issuance of tickets to people going two or three miles over the proposed limit, but rather to give reckless boaters something to think about when they hit the throttle. " So what is it then to prevent accidents or not??? #3 It's been stated that the bill IS NOT aimed at performance boats. However this response from the bill's sponsor says it quite differently: "Fear. It has nothing to do with death rate, or anything else, the numbers of arrests for speed and all the rest of it. It has to with a lack of courtesy on the part of the, I’ll call them ocean going vessels, like your own, the Donzi’s and the rest of them. " If you read that carefully, notice it says the vessels have lack of courtesy, not the people. So if that's not obvious enough, that the boats are the problems, why not come out and be honest with everyone about it!!! I'll stop with three for now.

12-20-2005, 01:15 PM	#2
Bear Lover Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	winnilaker None of these arguments hold water, in my opinion. 1. The young man speeding by in his motorboat could be going 35 or 45. And I doubt if dad was going over 45 during his first waterskiing lesson. I hope you children do get the experience, and that they keep it at 45 or less. 2. The Littlefield boat was going over the proposed speed limit. I don't care even one little bit about the arguments and quibbles about this. 28 is more than 25, END OF STORY. Sandy's opinion of what the law was intended to do doesn't matter. 68% of NH voters support a speed limit, THAT MATTERS! 3. I guess in your mind you can disconnect fear from safety. But fear is the manifestation of unsafe conditions. The lessening of safety on the lake creates fear in the minds of boaters. This fear inspires them to request and support legislation.

12-20-2005, 03:35 PM	#7
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Boater... 1. If safety is the primary concern and the reason behind HB-162, why did Rep. Pilliod say it wasn't? 2. Where is the accident data to support your belief that Lake Winnipesaukee isn't safe? Specifically, where is the accident data that points to excessive speed (over 45mph) as a major factor in boating accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee? 3. As far as marinas and hotels that support the issue, how many of them are in the boat rental business? How many of them are like Rusty McClear and think its perfectly ok to rent a boat on a busy summer weekend to someone who has no prior experience boating? All the renter has to do is a 20 question checklist? As long as they can afford the $200/hr its perfectly acceptable? Can you imagine if we rented cars & motorcycles with nothing but a 20 question checklist? But for some reason this is acceptable with a boat? 4. Tell me why is it the marina/hotel rental customers feel threatened? Because of speeding boats? Not likely, especially as speed is extremely difficult to judge on the water, as is distance. Perhaps it is as Rusty McClear said in his story, the rental customer was upset because nobody told them that the lake is busy, especially on summer weekends. But its not Rusty's responsibility to tell his rental customers... Woodsy