All this talk about improving the Weirs..is there an alternative?

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Brk...

How do you figure? If it wasn't for the Bike Week $$$ the Weirs wouldn't exist. Its a very short season to make a years worth of $$$. The Weirs will never be a "year round" type destination... Nowhere on the lake is "year round" with exception of Gunstock. Meredith (the standard for most people) hosts 2 events in the winter, Pond Hockey & the Ice fishing derby. Both are extremely weather dependent, and both had low numbers this year because of it.

The demographics have changed. We have an older, less kid driven demographic. Stop trying to attract a crowd that isn't interested anymore, and try to attract a crowd that is!

There needs to be a change in attitude from the City of Laconia... stop treating the Weirs like a redheaded stepkid! Make the Weirs a jewel! Pave Lakeside Avenue... get rid of the parking meters. Encourage small business, Look into running a shuttle that goes in a loop from Funspot/Looney Bin/Spoke back to the Weirs train station. Embrace Bike Week! Loosen up the rules a little!

Property & business owners need to refresh their attitudes... and their properties!

Woodsy

You want to attract a crowd that has limited or no expendable income? The retired community? Either you attract a younger generation or start putting in bids for demo now. Attracting a generation that is slowly wading out is like a business getting into an industry as its dying.

[Woodsy]

I never mentioned the "retired community"....

I was thinking more along the lines of adult oriented type stuff... cool cafes, small bars/restaurants/neat shops. Things that attract the mid 20's to mid 50's with $$$ and time to burn.

Not run down arcades with games that a run of the mill PS3 can play.

Woodsy

[Woodsy]

AC...

Without the "guaranteed" (tongue in cheek) Bike Week money... what makes the property desirable? You have a short season, a city that doesn't give a crap, and now no bike week income? Why would you want to open a business there?

What you will see is property values plummet, not just the commercial property but residential too. Businesses dry up and do not come back and the city loses tons of tax money that it uses to spend on downtown!

The Weirs needs more "big events"... not just Bike week. The city needs to step up and come up with a master plan for the Weirs.

Woodsy

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

AC...

Without the "guaranteed" (tongue in cheek) Bike Week money... what makes the property desirable? You have a short season, a city that doesn't give a crap, and now no bike week income? Why would you want to open a business there?

What you will see is property values plummet, not just the commercial property but residential too. Businesses dry up and do not come back and the city loses tons of tax money that it uses to spend on downtown!

The Weirs needs more "big events"... not just Bike week. The city needs to step up and come up with a master plan for the Weirs.

Woodsy

respectively disagree
the views alone even with winter season, make it a desirable spot (much better than Meredith Bay)
hate to use it because it is beating a dead horse, but look at Meredith, most everything down there operates year round

some investor has to be the first and be able to hold out for things to change (an prime example is Faro they are already doing this), with the change winter or other year round activities start in the are, a winter fest, spring fest, October fest where they shut the street down and hold a week long festival, maybe hockey alternates between there and Meredith. There is no incentive right now for activities to happen there during the fall and winter. with Development becomes opportunity

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I never mentioned the "retired community"....

I was thinking more along the lines of adult oriented type stuff... cool cafes, small bars/restaurants/neat shops. Things that attract the mid 20's to mid 50's with $$$ and time to burn.

Not run down arcades with games that a run of the mill PS3 can play.

Woodsy

With that I will agree, the way I read your post I looked at it as there is a younger generation a middle-aged generation and an older generation. the old generation is the people that are either getting done working or already retired. It has been said that the current weirs is targeted towards the demographics of the people that grew up in the 50s

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I never mentioned the "retired community"....

I was thinking more along the lines of adult oriented type stuff... cool cafes, small bars/restaurants/neat shops. Things that attract the mid 20's to mid 50's with $$$ and time to burn.

Not run down arcades with games that a run of the mill PS3 can play.

Woodsy

Other than parts of Portsmouth, can you name a single town in NH that has "Cool" shops small bars and cafes on a year round basis. What is needed and the weather is very much against it is a place that has a pulse more than 8 weeks a year. Very very few places in the entire state can claim that including North Conway. If the state does not figure out how to attract a sufficient number of businesses to the state that pay above the $10 tourist wage, the state will continue to bleed 20-50 year olds in search of an income and a life that does not include a 12 pack most every night .

[Mr. V]

The Weirs would be a good location for a casino.

[Leoskeys]

What about moving Pumpkinfest to Weirs? Granted that'll hurt downtown Laconia. And that's only another week a year of activity, so it won't solve the problem.
Seems like Weirs is something that Alex Ray and Dean Kamen should work together on! They can figure it out, and have the bankroll.

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

What about moving Pumpkinfest to Weirs? Granted that'll hurt downtown Laconia. And that's only another week a year of activity, so it won't solve the problem.
Seems like Weirs is something that Alex Ray and Dean Kamen should work together on! They can figure it out, and have the bankroll.

I'm thinking that Alex and Dean are busy with plans for a second set of highway rest stops on I-95. Why try to restore the Weirs which in terms of major profits will always be marginal, when one can basically print money with another mega rest stop complex like they have on I-93. I think that ship has sailed.

[kawishiwi]

Matbe the Donald can be talked into wielding his eminent domain tool to put up a hotel casino? Ok, so thats unlikely, but it seems that there are only 2 alternatives for improvement. 1 - play off of the seasonal draw in a way that has greater value than fried dough, as in vacation condos, that may be lightly occupied off season but at least there is long term value and upkeep. 2 - build something that has year round draw. I'd guess a casino would be flash in the pan but there could be something else that would get folks to drive at least an hour or two on a regular basis. Any ideas? A third option might be to go after the Meredith crowd in the same way. That could become cannibalistic though and leave both areas under stress.

[Descant]

Folks talk about Meredith and Wolfeboro. Ever notice how many shops in the two places are the same? No reason to duplicate one of those. Want something unique? They have unique shops in P-Town, and it draws from more than an hour away. Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard have some similar travel draws, but they have unique personalities too. All of those were an evolutionary series of events.

Unless you are Walt Disney, I think it is very difficult to build something in one big splash and be sure that it will be successful. It helped that Walt had a Sunday night TV show to advertise Disneyland for a full hour every week. I think Disneyland is only about 50 acres.

[GodSmile]

No idea what the answer is, but the location certainly will warrant a change at some point... it has too much going for it to stay the way it is. and don't forget the drive in parcel is for sale. I know it's literally in left field, but it's potential is there as well.

[Pricestavern]

Newport, RI is "mostly" a summer destination but it does draw people year round. There are the funky bars and shops people have advocated here that get people to stay for the week. They generate off season interest with a variety of festivals and events such as their Chili Cookoff, the Winter festival, the Chowder Festival to name a few. To accomodate the tourists there are numerous B&Bs, time shares, etc. There are water taxis that bring people in from Providence and Jamestown.
Other ideas:
There's not a single place in the area that rents snowmobiles. That would be s draw. Airboat rides? What about a small arena like Forest Hills in Queens, NY? That stadium actually has a very small footprint and could be used to host tennis, music, and theatre in the spring and fall. Add a craft brewery (or two); you could start craft brew tours with the surrounding towns. Host sailing races, snowmobile races, kayak races, a 10k. How about sculling races on Paugus Bay in the fall? How about a tethered hot air baloon (there's one in Bournemouth, England that's a big draw)?
It's such a beautiful area; it needs to recognize and embrace its gifts. We come up most Februaries to snow shoe out to Rattlesnake and lament the lack of other activites available to the visitor in winter.

[jeffk]

IMO, the Weirs stays as it is mostly because no one wants to change it, or is afraid to change it. I have been staying up here for 23 years either summer or full time. I have been to the Weirs maybe once every 3 years, several times for a Mount Washington cruise. When I get there I walk the town. I see nothing that interests me. If it is time to eat, I might grab something. However, there are no restaurants there I would be drawn to go back to. Most of the time I just walk and I am amazed how little things have changed since I vacationed there in the 60s as a kid. There were lots of families staying in the cottages nearby and the kids hung out in the arcades and on the beach.

When I go to Meredith or Wolfeboro I go in many of the shops. I buy stuff. I like several of the restaurants and am drawn back to them just to have a meal. There are grocery stores, bookstores, hardware stores, good ice cream shops, and other interesting venues in these towns. I look forward to going to them and do.

There is NO draw for people like me in the Wiers. The docking is a bit awkward to get into. The attractions that are there are small scale and while they may generate an OK income for the current owners, are never going to generate money to drive change. Someone would have to come in with BIG money and, for better or worse, sweep away the current old time arcades. It would require a fundamental transformation in how the Weirs is perceived and presented. It would probably also require a private/public partnership like is going on at the Balsams to get permits and allow major construction. Some of the cottages would probably get bought up and demolished.

It would take a complete re-envisioning of the town and the will and money to drive it.

[Woodsy]

For the record I am a year round resident of the Weirs... and truly love it!

The Weirs and most of the lake for that matter are and always will be seasonal. There is no getting around it.

Meredith has had success because 1 company, NH Hospitality, essentially owns the bottom of the bay and most of the property across Rte 3. Meridith is all commercial property at the bottom of the bay. It is also very adult oriented. Yes, there are a few things for kids to do, but not much. Wolfeboro has a similar type draw. The Weirs is a mix of commercial and residential properties, and that does present challenges.

The Weirs has ALWAYS been kid oriented... the Beach, the Drive In, Waterslides, Arcades, Mini Golf, Pizza & Ice cream places, etc etc... all driven by families with kids who were on vacation. So every week there was a new batch of customers looking to spend money.

Unfortunately, the demographic has changed... all the little motels are condos, and families just aren't very interested in what the Weirs has to offer anymore.

So you have 2 options... adapt or die. Unfortunately the Weirs has been slowly dying. If it wasn't for Bike Week, the place would be boarded up. The property & business owners don't want to change and adapt, and the City of Laconia doesn't want to spend any $$ on upkeep. Lakeside Ave is disgrace.

The Weirs has tremendous potential.... But the City and the property & business owners need to get together and form a plan. Loosen up the rules a little, embrace Bike Week and help it grow (although that demographic is getting older and dwindling regardless), Spruce up & repave Lakeside Ave. Get rid of the parking meters! The property owners need to actually spend some $$ improving their properties. Lets have a mix of some cool eats, some live music, funky shops. Its a small area so this should be very doable.

Woodsy

[dippasan]

Great thread
Disclaimer...I mean no disrespect to those that love the Weirs but.......

IMHO i think the Weirs strip is a dump compared to many of the other destinations on the lake or on other lakes for that matter. Lake George for example. Even when our kids were young we didn't go out of our way to visit the Weirs and if we did it was for a couple of hours for a fried dough. The Pier, the mini golf, the trash, the arcades are all eye sores. When we go boating with our guests we simply point to the Weirs and say "That's where they have bike week" and then we drive right by.

I know it comes down to money but you must first put the wood in the fire before you can expect to get heat. Put the money into it and they'll come.

That said it has the potential to be a premier vacation destination in the heart of the Lakes Region. It's a diamond in the rough and we'd gladly visit if it had something worth visiting regularly. It is prime real estate on our beautiful lake. Look at Meredith and Wolfeboro. What better place to have a great destination for lunch, dinner, outdoor concerts, shopping, night life etc.

It has the bones to be a great destination but it doesn't have the skin.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by dippasan

Great thread
Disclaimer...I mean no disrespect to those that love the Weirs but.......

IMHO i think the Weirs strip is a dump compared to many of the other destinations on the lake or on other lakes for that matter. Lake George for example. Even when our kids were young we didn't go out of our way to visit the Weirs and if we did it was for a couple of hours for a fried dough. The Pier, the mini golf, the trash, the arcades are all eye sores. When we go boating with our guests we simply point to the Weirs and say "That's where they have bike week" and then we drive right by.

I know it comes down to money but you must first put the wood in the fire before you can expect to get heat. Put the money into it and they'll come.

That said it has the potential to be a premier vacation destination in the heart of the Lakes Region. It's a diamond in the rough and we'd gladly visit if it had something worth visiting regularly. It is prime real estate on our beautiful lake. Look at Meredith and Wolfeboro. What better place to have a great destination for lunch, dinner, outdoor concerts, shopping, night life etc.

It has the bones to be a great destination but it doesn't have the skin.

Kind of an aside, but I keep thinking that Moultonborough should move our "downtown" to the Center Harbor town line and combine forces with them. Again, it would take some doing and money (that Moultonborough has!)... just rambling, but you are correct Dippassan, destinations are few on Winni, port -wise.

[Billy Bob]

That's right on as a replacement . Laconia with its taxes and problems is dead to me . The veterans property seems to be the last obstacle that won't improve

[Orion]

Seems to me that the Veteran's property is pretty well utilized during the season and has not that big a "footprint" on the main road, really.

As far as Center Harbor is concerned, I agree it would be nice to have that made into a nicer lake destination, but there are too many problems with that scenario, starting with the lack of adequate public dock space. And, there is little room to expand what they have, sandwiched between the marina that services the Mount and the public beach. [And why did the beach swim line have to steal one of the dock spaces rather than move it back 10' on that side?] There is also no public parking area to speak of (aside from the shopping center), and the whole area is otherwise private waterfront properties. Meredith was truly a unique "opportunity".

[fatlazyless]

In my dreams.......would love to see Donald Trump come back to the Weirs, sometime very very soon after November, and evict all those uniquely interesting NH Veteran's Assoc seasonal "homes?" and run the table through the legal process of eminent domain, and a construct a Trump Winnipesaukee Mega Mondo Casino in what could be a very nice commercial location.....overlooking the lake....... in my dreams!

.....say hey ....., it will give him a new challenge, and something fun and maybe profitable to do.....plus create jobs, and pay property tax.


And further more.....let's not forget about the 17 different storage buildings in a storage business that was proposed for the large empty lot just below the Cumberland Farm. Not having a storage business in that spot is a good move ..... so's it looks like that spot is destined to remain as it currently is forever, ever, ever.......until the next ice age comes through.

[sum-r breeze]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

For the record I am a year round resident of the Weirs... and truly love it!

The Weirs and most of the lake for that matter are and always will be seasonal. There is no getting around it.

Meredith has had success because 1 company, NH Hospitality, essentially owns the bottom of the bay and most of the property across Rte 3. Meridith is all commercial property at the bottom of the bay. It is also very adult oriented. Yes, there are a few things for kids to do, but not much. Wolfeboro has a similar type draw. The Weirs is a mix of commercial and residential properties, and that does present challenges.

The Weirs has ALWAYS been kid oriented... the Beach, the Drive In, Waterslides, Arcades, Mini Golf, Pizza & Ice cream places, etc etc... all driven by families with kids who were on vacation. So every week there was a new batch of customers looking to spend money.

Unfortunately, the demographic has changed... all the little motels are condos, and families just aren't very interested in what the Weirs has to offer anymore.

So you have 2 options... adapt or die. Unfortunately the Weirs has been slowly dying. If it wasn't for Bike Week, the place would be boarded up. The property & business owners don't want to change and adapt, and the City of Laconia doesn't want to spend any $$ on upkeep. Lakeside Ave is disgrace.

The Weirs has tremendous potential.... But the City and the property & business owners need to get together and form a plan. Loosen up the rules a little, embrace Bike Week and help it grow (although that demographic is getting older and dwindling regardless), Spruce up & repave Lakeside Ave. Get rid of the parking meters! The property owners need to actually spend some $$ improving their properties. Lets have a mix of some cool eats, some live music, funky shops. Its a small area so this should be very doable.

Woodsy

It seems like the live music activity tends to bring people out. The night life in the lakes region is kind of non existent. I remember when the Lobster Pound at the time had a live band playing on top of a very large flatbed trailer in their parking lot. The place was jammed with people dancing and really enjoying the music. Live entertainment is the way to go and relax the curfew time to midnight or so. Just my 2 cents

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

[JasonG]

Why doesn't someone ask the people that developed Meredith to redo the Weirs? Or would they be creating their own competition?

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by JasonG

Why doesn't someone ask the people that developed Meredith to redo the Weirs? Or would they be creating their own competition?

1. Meredith actually had most of the infrastructure already in place and the original investor just rehabbed the buildings. The partner came along when food was required in two of the four hotels.
2. They are making a much bigger return building Interstate rest stops for the State of NH than they would ever make with the Weirs.
3. Until the current owners drop the rental mantra of "earn a year's rent with Bike week" as their attitude, nothing will change.
4. Who will get the city to condemn and demolish all of the current residential properties because they are the ones who don't want more commercial noise and traffic.
5. Other than those fortunate to be able to buy, inherit a lake front property or rent one at thousands per week, the vast majority of vacationers do not wish to come to NH any longer. It is so yesterday in so many ways and those who love yesterday are in their 70's plus.

[Fargo]

How can Laconia have a vision for the Weirs when downtown struggles? They overpaid for the Colonial Theater and spending 15mil to restore it. The theater will never support itself in that location. Should have torn that and the parking garage down, open up a park and access from Main St to the Belknap Mill. Spend the rest of the money improving Weirs and still not spend 15 mil. Entire downtown Laconia isn't worth $15 million!

[wtibert]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

1. Meredith actually had most of the infrastructure already in place and the original investor just rehabbed the buildings. The partner came along when food was required in two of the four hotels.
2. They are making a much bigger return building Interstate rest stops for the State of NH than they would ever make with the Weirs.
3. Until the current owners drop the rental mantra of "earn a year's rent with Bike week" as their attitude, nothing will change.
4. Who will get the city to condemn and demolish all of the current residential properties because they are the ones who don't want more commercial noise and traffic.
5. Other than those fortunate to be able to buy, inherit a lake front property or rent one at thousands per week, the vast majority of vacationers do not wish to come to NH any longer. It is so yesterday in so many ways and those who love yesterday are in their 70's plus.

From a someone from Mass in their 40s who spends a lot of his summer at the lake I "get" the Weirs. I also realize year round residents have a different perspective.

For what it is, it's unique on the lake. It's a place that the week long renters can go for a day when it's raining or to spend time with their kids to have that "I came here when I was your age" moment, and have it be close to what it was, albeit now without the water slides.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the largest beach on the lake with public access. If there are changes, the beach has to be the center. You need fast food, ice cream, and fried dough within walking distance.

The Weirs in the 70s and early 80s was a big part of my childhood summer memories. Part of me loves that it's basically the same, the other part is sad that it hasn't really changed.

Until I go into Half Moon to the shooting range and make the piano player start playing, then I forget what it looks like on the outside...

[MAXUM]

Heh well let me stir the pot and make it boil over....

I guess I'm old school, I don't care about restaurants, entertainment, live or otherwise, shops, or really what is ever going on "in town" when I'm at the lake. All I care about is if the fishing is good and having a nice warm campfire every night.

The weirs as far as I'm concerned could be burned down or bulldozed to oblivion and I wouldn't really care either way. It would definitely look nicer after a good bull dozing.

Far as bike week goes, I wouldn't miss it if it never happened again.

[camp guy]

So, MAXUM, in words of small syllables, "What do you really think of the Weirs?"

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by camp guy

So, MAXUM, in words of small syllables, "What do you really think of the Weirs?"

I'll sum it up to "not much"

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Heh well let me stir the pot and make it boil over....

I guess I'm old school, I don't care about restaurants, entertainment, live or otherwise, shops, or really what is ever going on "in town" when I'm at the lake. All I care about is if the fishing is good and having a nice warm campfire every night.

The weirs as far as I'm concerned could be burned down or bulldozed to oblivion and I wouldn't really care either way. It would definitely look nicer after a good bull dozing.

Far as bike week goes, I wouldn't miss it if it never happened again.

Well well well, another of the "I've made it so pull up the draw bridge and the rest of the peasants be damned" crowd. Perhaps you would be more comfortable over on Squam Lake in Sandwich where anything commercial is treated like a case of Ebola.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Well well well, another of the "I've made it so pull up the draw bridge and the rest of the peasants be damned" crowd. Perhaps you would be more comfortable over on Squam Lake in Sandwich where anything commercial is treated like a case of Ebola.

Far from it, I'd be more than happy to see Weirs Beach turned into a parking lot and a nice FREE public boat ramp put in it's place.

[Acrossamerica]

To continue on the Key West wish - The average resident income for Key West is $75,401 with 15.8% below $25,000 a year
Florida - $71,904

Laconia - $67,378 with 22.7% below $25,000

New Hampshire - $64,712

So we are short on disposable income for the cute shops and cafes that during the 40 weeks a year the "lake House" folks are not here depend on the locals. Need I delve into education levels and general life styles between Key West and Laconia and the surrounding areas?