Coast Guard: Boating Deaths Drop in Northeast

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

"... Show me an accident on Winni or in NH for that matter that has a fatality and was due to excessive speed with no alcohol involved."

Here's a Winnipesaukee fatality due to excess speed—and no alcohol involved—just as you requested:

http://www.citizen.com/news2002/may/01/ap0501ac.htm

Oh, you clicked on it and got:

404 — Page Not Found
The page you have requested is not currently found on our server.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Where do we go from here, codeman671?

[Cal]

I guess that just goes to show the Citizen has joined the oppositions side and deleted it right

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Here's a Winnipesaukee fatality due to excess speed—and no alcohol involved—just as you requested:

http://www.citizen.com/news2002/may/01/ap0501ac.htm

Oh, you clicked on it and got:



Where do we go from here, codeman671?

The accident in question was caused by an improper turn, improper handling by a boater who obviously did not know how to handle the boat. This was probably a step hull design and probably could have happened at 40mph just as easily. What was the actual brand/model of the boat? I have not been able to verify this in order to validate my point so if you have this please provide.

After test driving a 38' Lightning in October and reading up on the hull design it is just as easy to "hook" the bow and roll as it sounds like happened in this case at 70mph as it is at 40mph. Had the operator known the limitations of the boat this probably would not have happened.

Some dealers, Shep Brown's for instance does not let a customer on a test drive run a performance boat. This is done by an experienced driver from the marina. This is for their safety as well as the consumers.

[Island Lover]

So now we have a 70 mph, non-alcohol, fatal accident on Winni. But it doesn't count because it could have happened at 40 mph? Are you serious???

Another accident doesn't count because it was only 3 mph over the limit!
Another doesn't count because it was REALLY operator inattention!

WE NEED BOATING SAFETY...... NOT EXCUSES!!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

So now we have a 70 mph, non-alcohol, fatal accident on Winni. But it doesn't count because it could have happened at 40 mph? Are you serious???

Another accident doesn't count because it was only 3 mph over the limit!
Another doesn't count because it was REALLY operator inattention!

WE NEED BOATING SAFETY...... NOT EXCUSES!!

I never said it didn't count...I do find it funny that of all the times I have asked YOU for proof you could not provide any, all that I have recieved from YOU is excuses. APS did come with with an example which could or could not be considered speed-related and I did not discount this although did ask for some further clarification. However I think in all fairness you cannot pin this to speed alone either. A performance boat (which I have to assume this was due to the speed) can easily handle a 70mph turn as long as it is done in a manner in which the boat was designed. The same as taking a porsche down I-95 and cutting the wheel all the way to one side at 70mph. This is improper handling and is deadly in both situations.

Boating safety? I think that we all have been asking for this. Proper training? Yep, that too. Boating safety is a different issue than a speed limit, one that you have already stated has been taken care of. By your own post I think that even you do not believe this.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

"...The same as taking a porsche down I-95 and cutting the wheel all the way to one side at 70mph. This is improper handling and is deadly in both situations."

Codeman is disagreeing with Woodsy?

"...as he gets a devilish grin on his face, then reefs the helm round as tight as it will go. The boat slams up on it side..."

"APS...How is that post fron Jefe an issue? He didn't do anything inherently unsafe. Do explain?
Woodsy

Now, on to:

Originally Posted by codeman671

The accident in question was caused by an improper turn, improper handling by a boater who obviously did not know how to handle the boat. What was the actual brand/model of the boat? I have not been able to verify this in order to validate my point so if you have this please provide. After test driving a 38' Lightning in October and reading up on the hull design it is just as easy to "hook" the bow and roll as it sounds like happened in this case at 70mph as it is at 40mph. Had the operator known the limitations of the boat this probably would not have happened.

1) You're referencing a Fountain (?)
2) "Obviously did not know how to handle the boat" (??)
3) "Had the operator known the limitations of the boat this probably would not have happened." (???)

The fatality I referenced -- alcohol-free as you requested -- http://www.citizen.com/news2002/may/01/ap0501ac.htm is a Donzi


.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Codeman is disagreeing with Woodsy?

Now, on to:

1) You're referencing a Fountain (?)
2) "Obviously did not know how to handle the boat" (??)
3) "Had the operator known the limitations of the boat this probably would not have happened." (???)

The fatality I referenced -- alcohol-free as you requested -- http://www.citizen.com/news2002/may/01/ap0501ac.htm is a Donzi.

I referenced a fountain that I had driven and asked for clarification on the type of boat involved, I was not stating that this accident was a fountain but was comparing the characteristics of step hull boats. I never argued on the accident but can attest that this was due to driver error, not speed. The boat can be handled safely at 70mph but was not. I am not disagreeing with Woodsy on anything.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by codeman671

it is just as easy to "hook" the bow and roll as it sounds like happened in this case at 70mph as it is at 40mph.

I find this hard to believe. It might be possible at 40 but it's gotta be far more likely at 70, kinetic energy being what it is...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I find this hard to believe. It might be possible at 40 but it's gotta be far more likely at 70, kinetic energy being what it is...

To run 70mph in a fountain the boat needs to be further up on plane with the nose higher, a high speed turn would leave less boat in the water to catch. if the boat was trimmed down and an aggressive move was made then the boat is more likely to roll. Most people would not think that a turn at 40mph is dangerous and more mistakes are likely to be made.

Check out the following link, starting on page 47. This tells of the typical handling characteristics of step hulls and how to run them properly.

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/co...al05online.pdf

Here is an excerpt:

HULL STEP TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED THE WAY WE NEED
TO DRIVE!
WHILE SMOOTH OPERATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE KEY TO
SAFE HIGH SPEED OPERATION, BEING SMOOTH AND USING
COMMON SENSE IS EVEN MORE CRITICAL WITH TODAY’S
FASTER, MORE TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED HULL
DESIGNS.
THE NEW TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED LARGER, LONGER,
HEAVIER BOATS TO TRAVEL AT MUCH FASTER SPEEDS, WITH
STANDARD HORSEPOWER. THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT
THINGS HAPPEN MUCH FASTER AT HIGHER RATES OF
SPEED, AND LARGER BOATS SIMPLY CARRY MORE ENERGY
ONCE IN MOTION.
INCORRECT TRIM SETTINGS OR IRRATIC TURNING MANEUVERS,
WHILE STILL DANGEROUS AT SLOW SPEEDS, CAN BE
DISASTROUS AT HIGH SPEEDS.
AT HIGHER RATES OF SPEED, THERE IS LITTLE OR NO WARNING
BEFORE THE BOAT REACTS TO RAPID TURNS OR INCORRECT
AND/OR ABRUPT TRIM CHANGES.
COMMON SENSE IS YOUR BEST DEFENSE!
NONE OF US WOULD TAKE A NEW CORVETTE OUT, RUN IT UP
TO 60MPH, GRAB THE WHEEL AND MAKE AN ABRUPT 180
DEGREE TURN ON THE WHEEL. THE SAME CONCEPT
APPLIES TO BOATS.
KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS, AS WELL AS THE LIMITATIONS OF
THE EQUIPMENT, AND DRIVE WITHIN THEM.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by codeman671

To run 70mph in a fountain the boat needs to be further up on plane with the nose higher, a high speed turn would leave less boat in the water to catch. if the boat was trimmed down and an aggressive move was made then the boat is more likely to roll. Most people would not think that a turn at 40mph is dangerous and more mistakes are likely to be made.

Check out the following link, starting on page 47. This tells of the typical handling characteristics of step hulls and how to run them properly.

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/co...al05online.pdf

Here is an excerpt:

HULL STEP TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED THE WAY WE NEED
TO DRIVE!
WHILE SMOOTH OPERATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE KEY TO
SAFE HIGH SPEED OPERATION, BEING SMOOTH AND USING
COMMON SENSE IS EVEN MORE CRITICAL WITH TODAY’S
FASTER, MORE TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED HULL
DESIGNS.
THE NEW TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED LARGER, LONGER,
HEAVIER BOATS TO TRAVEL AT MUCH FASTER SPEEDS, WITH
STANDARD HORSEPOWER. THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT
THINGS HAPPEN MUCH FASTER AT HIGHER RATES OF
SPEED, AND LARGER BOATS SIMPLY CARRY MORE ENERGY
ONCE IN MOTION.
INCORRECT TRIM SETTINGS OR IRRATIC TURNING MANEUVERS,
WHILE STILL DANGEROUS AT SLOW SPEEDS, CAN BE
DISASTROUS AT HIGH SPEEDS.
AT HIGHER RATES OF SPEED, THERE IS LITTLE OR NO WARNING
BEFORE THE BOAT REACTS TO RAPID TURNS OR INCORRECT
AND/OR ABRUPT TRIM CHANGES.
COMMON SENSE IS YOUR BEST DEFENSE!
NONE OF US WOULD TAKE A NEW CORVETTE OUT, RUN IT UP
TO 60MPH, GRAB THE WHEEL AND MAKE AN ABRUPT 180
DEGREE TURN ON THE WHEEL. THE SAME CONCEPT
APPLIES TO BOATS.
KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS, AS WELL AS THE LIMITATIONS OF
THE EQUIPMENT, AND DRIVE WITHIN THEM.

Thansk for the link, it's a very well written manual and I think Fountain deserves praise for putting that info out there.

'nuther excerpt from the same document:

"FEEL CLOSELY FOR ANY INDICATION OF LOSS OF
“TRACTION” IN A TURN. IMMEDIATELY REDUCE RATE OF
TURN AND/OR THROTTLE ACCORDINGLY."

To me, this says that one can increase the rate of turn if one decreases the speed, which makes perfect sense. But it also tells me that the boat is less likely to spin out at lower speeds, hence my skepticism of the boat being just as easily "hooked" at 40 as it is at 70. I think you'd have to try much harder to spin out at 40 as you would at 70. Either way though, I don't want to be in that boat during a spin out, thankyouverymuch...

I am by no means a stepped hull expert, but I currently own my second stepped hull boat and love them, so I have a little experience. 'Course, I like them for the fuel economy...

[codeman671]

"FEEL CLOSELY FOR ANY INDICATION OF LOSS OF
“TRACTION” IN A TURN. IMMEDIATELY REDUCE RATE OF
TURN AND/OR THROTTLE ACCORDINGLY."



A definite reduction in speed is necessary in this case however if the trim is not up the bow will dig causing the hook. Simply cutting back on the throttle as one would do in a standard hull without balancing with proper trim can be catastrophic.