Gilford Beach bacteria closing

[fatlazyless]

With an 1100' long length, the Gilford town beach is the longest beach on Lake Winnipesaukee and is open only to Gilford residents. It has been closed lately due to high bacteria counts.

Is this due to the canada geese that make it a habit to poop their green goose poop directly into the water, and then the silty poop washes up on the beach??? Canada geese and other ducks like the mallards are probably the #1 reason for the suspended silt in the water that sinks down to the lowest depths.

A mallard duck is very able to swallow an oak tree acorn whole, and digest it. Acorns do not float, and mallards dive to the bottom and swallow the acorns. Do not think that Canada geese can swallow an acorn, plus they are not very good at diving probably because they are so large, or something.

http://www.citizen.com/news/2016-07-...to_E_coli_html

[MAXUM]

The problem with Canada geese is there are way to many of them and controlling their population never seems to be a consideration. They make a mess no matter where they go beaches, golf courses, public and private property. Instead of increasing hunting for these pests to help reduce the overall numbers it's better for some reason to shoo them onto somebody else's property or move them elsewhere which of course never works as they will come right back. So the quandary continues do we take care of the problem or let those things continue to procreate and grow in numbers that are not proportional to taken by natural preditors or hunting.

I do find it a bit hard to believe that all or a good majority of the silt in the lake is from bird poop otherwise the water would be toxic to swim in, they may contribute some organic matter but not at a volume that could possibly be measurable.

[aquabones]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The problem with Canada geese is there are way to many of them and controlling their population never seems to be a consideration. They make a mess no matter where they go beaches, golf courses, public and private property. Instead of increasing hunting for these pests to help reduce the overall numbers it's better for some reason to shoo them onto somebody else's property or move them elsewhere which of course never works as they will come right back. So the quandary continues do we take care of the problem or let those things continue to procreate and grow in numbers that are not proportional to taken by natural preditors or hunting.

I do find it a bit hard to believe that all or a good majority of the silt in the lake is from bird poop otherwise the water would be toxic to swim in, they may contribute some organic matter but not at a volume that could possibly be measurable.

We had about 30 geese on our lawn. I called Fish and Game and they weren't concerned about the E-coli, bacteria, etc. left behind in their feces. They suggested an air gun to scare them away. I bought green mesh fencing and will put that up when I'm gone for a few days to keep them off the lawn. I don't understand why the Fish and Game haven't considered taking the local geese away (not sure where they would relocate them!) They would make a nice Christmas dinner for the food bank.

[SAB1]

Their hands are somewhat tied to a degree. Migratory birds are controlled the federal government for the most part.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Their hands are somewhat tied to a degree. Migratory birds are controlled the federal government for the most part.

Problem is they don't migrate any more .

[ApS]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The problem with Canada geese is there are way to many of them and controlling their population never seems to be a consideration. They make a mess no matter where they go beaches, golf courses, public and private property. Instead of increasing hunting for these pests to help reduce the overall numbers it's better for some reason to shoo them onto somebody else's property or move them elsewhere which of course never works as they will come right back. So the quandary continues do we take care of the problem or let those things continue to procreate and grow in numbers that are not proportional to taken by natural predators or hunting.

I do find it a bit hard to believe that all or a good majority of the silt in the lake is from bird poop otherwise the water would be toxic to swim in, they may contribute some organic matter but not at a volume that could possibly be measurable.

MAXUM is correct about silt.

"Silt" is inorganic in origin:

Definition of silt. 1 : loose sedimentary material with rock particles usually 1⁄20 millimeter or less

Dense forest growth (especially pine) reduces the amount of silt washed downslope by heavy rains everywhere in the Winnipesaukee Basin.

Last week, I checked out the source of a loud wood-chipper sound nearby. It was a new neighbor who had cut down eight huge White Pines from his shorefront. The nearest stump to be seen was about 30-inches across. (The width of a typical refrigerator). The "trimmer's" name? "Urban Tree Service".

Wave actions—but especially large boat wakes—wash heavier silt from shorefronts. While some "silt" washed downslope introduces "sand"—where it didn't appear before—the finer particles can be expected to coat the lake's bottom locally.

For example, three decades of construction on The Broads side of Wolfeboro Neck—and Rattlesnake Island—has changed those locales. By kayak, I remember seeing a kaleidoscope of colors and textures on every rock on the bottom. Presently, they all appear similarly-textured and "olive" in color. 'Wonder why?



In some states, a "Rain Tax" would have been imposed on the abutters!

Is "Rain Tax" another name for "View Tax"?

________________________

Canada Geese may be getting a "bad rap" for Gilford's waters. DNA examinations—which may be in process presently—can determine if the source of E. coli is mammal, fish, vegetable, or (foul) fowl. Presently, the entire state of New Hampshire is affected by an outbreak: http://www.ecoliblog.com/e-coli-outb...9#.V53iO-RTF-w

While FLL's referenced article has expired for non-subscribers, The Citizen newspaper has published many E. coli articles just for the year 2016: http://www.citizen.com/search/node/coli

Also remember that Canada Geese are "invited" to the area by maintaining green-grass lawns. The nutrients of Phosphorus and Nitrogen from lawn fertilizers "grow" the lake's algae—and the algae "grow" the snails that produce Duck Itch.

.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by ApS

MAXUM is correct about silt.

"Silt" is inorganic in origin:



Dense forest growth (especially pine) reduces the amount of silt washed downslope by heavy rains everywhere in the Winnipesaukee Basin.

Last week, I checked out the source of a loud wood-chipper sound nearby. It was a new neighbor who had cut down eight huge White Pines from his shorefront. The nearest stump to be seen was about 30-inches across. (The width of a typical refrigerator). The "trimmer's" name? "Urban Tree Service".

Wave actions—but especially large boat wakes—wash heavier silt from shorefronts. While some "silt" washed downslope introduces "sand"—where it didn't appear before—the finer particles can be expected to coat the lake's bottom locally.

For example, three decades of construction on The Broads side of Wolfeboro Neck—and Rattlesnake Island—has changed those locales. By kayak, I remember seeing a kaleidoscope of colors and textures on every rock on the bottom. Presently, they all appear similarly-textured and "olive" in color. 'Wonder why?



In some states, a "Rain Tax" would have been imposed on the abutters!

Is "Rain Tax" another name for "View Tax"?

________________________

Canada Geese may be getting a "bad rap" for Gilford's waters. DNA examinations—which may be in process presently—can determine if the source of E. coli is mammal, fish, vegetable, or (foul) fowl. Presently, the entire state of New Hampshire is affected by an outbreak: http://www.ecoliblog.com/e-coli-outb...9#.V53iO-RTF-w

While FLL's referenced article has expired for non-subscribers, The Citizen newspaper has published many E. coli articles just for the year 2016: http://www.citizen.com/search/node/coli

Also remember that Canada Geese are "invited" to the area by maintaining green-grass lawns. The nutrients of Phosphorus and Nitrogen from lawn fertilizers "grow" the lake's algae—and the algae "grow" the snails that produce Duck Itch.

.

Where is Shorethings? The state is great at creating laws but not so great at enforcing them.

[Woody38]

There was a problem with Canada Geese at an business park in Massachusetts at one time. Someone erected several posters of a coyote on the lawn and the geese disappeared

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Where is Shorethings? The state is great at creating laws but not so great at enforcing them.

May I infer that you would like to know why we would allow the project seen in the photos or in the alternative, why we are not taking enforcement against it? If so, then let me say I am familiar with the site in question. It was not someone's project nor does it currently look as it does in those photographs. The damage seen was a natural slope failure that occurred on the Broads side of Wolfeboro Neck following a major rain event. I believe it was about 8 years ago. Emergency approvals to stabilize the site were issued to prevent further damage while formal restoration/ stabilization plans were completed.

If this does not answer your concerns please respond with a more specific question so we can attempt provide a meaningful answer.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Where is Shorethings? The state is great at creating laws but not so great at enforcing them.

I have to say if I were "Shorethings" I'd probably take offense with this comment. Your post makes it sound like you feel Shorethings is personally responsible for this situation. Shorethings posts here to be helpful and informative, it appears that their postings are made in a somehwhat "unofficial" capacity. I don't think it's necessary or fair to be pointing any fingers at someone who has always been helpful to the Winni.com community. I for one appreciate her postings ( I believe Shorethings is a female) as I always learn something from them. I find it refreshing to have a Govt. official who goes out of her or his way to be helpful for no other reason than to be helpful...... If we had more of them the world would be a better place.

Charlie T

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by shore things

May I infer that you would like to know why we would allow the project seen in the photos or in the alternative, why we are not taking enforcement against it? If so, then let me say I am familiar with the site in question. It was not someone's project nor does it currently look as it does in those photographs. The damage seen was a natural slope failure that occurred on the Broads side of Wolfeboro Neck following a major rain event. I believe it was about 8 years ago. Emergency approvals to stabilize the site were issued to prevent further damage while formal restoration/ stabilization plans were completed.

If this does not answer your concerns please respond with a more specific question so we can attempt provide a meaningful answer.

Shore things, surely you are not implying that APS used an inaccurate, out of date photo to prove a point, are you?

[tis]

"—can determine if the source of E. coli is mammal, fish, vegetable, or (foul) fowl. Presently, the entire state of New Hampshire is affected by an outbreak: http://www.ecoliblog.com"

I would love to know the cause of all this fecal bacteria. I never remember issues at Albee, 19 Mile and Carry Beach all about the same time.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by tis

"—can determine if the source of E. coli is mammal, fish, vegetable, or (foul) fowl. Presently, the entire state of New Hampshire is affected by an outbreak: http://www.ecoliblog.com"

I would love to know the cause of all this fecal bacteria. I never remember issues at Albee, 19 Mile and Carry Beach all about the same time.

I can't read the blog in question due to our firewall settings so I cannot address its contents. It's been hot and the water is warm, if Friday traffic on 93 is any indication we seem to have an increase in visitors, we haven't had much rain to flush things out, we have a fat happy resident goose population, and I'm sure there's something else I'm missing... I tend to think it is no one issue but rather the sum of many factors.

For those who are interested DES has released a new website with links to lake water quality studies and management plans. You can check it out from here: http://des.nh.gov/media/pr/2016/2016...nfo-mapper.htm

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

I have to say if I were "Shorethings" I'd probably take offense with this comment. Your post makes it sound like you feel Shorethings is personally responsible for this situation. Shorethings posts here to be helpful and informative, it appears that their postings are made in a somehwhat "unofficial" capacity. I don't think it's necessary or fair to be pointing any fingers at someone who has always been helpful to the Winni.com community. I for one appreciate her postings ( I believe Shorethings is a female) as I always learn something from them. I find it refreshing to have a Govt. official who goes out of her or his way to be helpful for no other reason than to be helpful...... If we had more of them the world would be a better place.

Charlie T

Thanks, I do appreciate the concern, but it's ok. 2nd curve voiced his opinion that the State does not enforce things well. He could have said "she" (yes your are correct) but he didn't. I have been doing this for long time and have had the "pleasure" of completing a couple of wetlands applications. I understand where the frustration comes from. The single most important thing to remember is that I am not the State, I am only employed by it. The day that line seems to be blurry I'll need to be moving on.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Shore things, surely you are not implying that APS used an inaccurate, out of date photo to prove a point, are you?

I have been unable to ascertain what point he was trying to prove thus I cannot make any such implication...

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by shore things

I have been unable to ascertain what point he was trying to prove thus I cannot make any such implication...

I can tell you from his many years of posts including these pics. He is insinuating that either development or big boat wave action has done this damage and/or are the reason the Canada Geese are so prevelant here.

[tis]

Originally Posted by shore things

I can't read the blog in question due to our firewall settings so I cannot address its contents. It's been hot and the water is warm, if Friday traffic on 93 is any indication we seem to have an increase in visitors, we haven't had much rain to flush things out, we have a fat happy resident goose population, and I'm sure there's something else I'm missing... I tend to think it is no one issue but rather the sum of many factors.

For those who are interested DES has released a new website with links to lake water quality studies and management plans. You can check it out from here: http://des.nh.gov/media/pr/2016/2016...nfo-mapper.htm

Shore things, he just said there is a way to test to see what is causing the high levels, whether it is mammal, fish,vegetable or fowl. Just wondering if this is true and if the state would test for this? But thanks for your opinion thinking it is a combination.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Their hands are somewhat tied to a degree. Migratory birds are controlled the federal government for the most part.

Here we go again. As Cosmos Kramer would say "Way out there".
Yup, all geese have specialized GPS units that make them stay on Lake Winnespaukee.

Now back to reality. It's the fertilizer poisoning the lake. All them beautiful GREEN lawns. I have never seen so many landscaping companies as the past few years. All adding "environmentally friendly" fertilizer to those nice pretty green lawns.

And never mind the old septic systems that were dug holes in the ground that are still around.

Do some of the bigger boats still have working toilets? Oh, but those are pumped out, right?

And what about the fish. What bathroom do the fish use?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Shore things, surely you are not implying that APS used an inaccurate, out of date photo to prove a point, are you?

I have an older, and even-more-inaccurate photo, that shows the dock-box sitting 20 feet higher on that same lot. It must be out-of-date, as well

For accuracy, I'll mark with an asterisk (*) the photos that are "inaccurate and out of date".

Originally Posted by Charlie T

I have to say if I were "Shorethings" I'd probably take offense with this comment. Your post makes it sound like you feel Shorethings is personally responsible for this situation. Shorethings posts here to be helpful and informative, it appears that their postings are made in a somehwhat "unofficial" capacity. I don't think it's necessary or fair to be pointing any fingers at someone who has always been helpful to the Winni.com community. I for one appreciate her postings ( I believe Shorethings is a female) as I always learn something from them. I find it refreshing to have a Govt. official who goes out of her or his way to be helpful for no other reason than to be helpful...... If we had more of them the world would be a better place.
Charlie T

Yes, I agree: secondcurve tried, in one seemingly-harsh sentence, to put too much into my post. The late State Limnologist Jody Connor and I spoke regularly by telephone, but it was Shorethings who has patiently responded to my many frustrations about the health of the Big Lake.

In short:

• DNA can determine the specific source of E. coli contamination.

• Silt does not originate from waterfowl, but from erosion.

• Grass does not sufficiently retard runoff, and introduces nutrients that accelerate "eutrophication" of the lake from waterfowl and fertilizers.

• "Impervious surfaces" are the reason for those two different sites experiencing the effects of rapid rain runoff. (Not just driveways, but roofs).

• Erosion on Rattlesnake Island is even worse. (Photo 1*, below)

• Nearby, a 20-year-abandoned "Trust" property (ice-eaters operating in July—now sold) has seen erosion that is casting its trees into the lake. (Photo 2*, below). The abutting lot was visited by "Urban Tree Service" last week.

• And yes, increasingly-large boat wakes are responsible. (Photo 3*, below). Nature's waves haven't washed over my dock like these.

.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by tis

Shore things, he just said there is a way to test to see what is causing the high levels, whether it is mammal, fish,vegetable or fowl. Just wondering if this is true and if the state would test for this? But thanks for your opinion thinking it is a combination.

I brought your question to the folks the do our water quality sampling and testing. Certain strains of e. coli are better adapted to different hosts and you can differentiate between those strains. This works well testing in a controlled or limited system but not in an open lake environment. The problem is that the test can tell us that some is from goose, some is from humans, and some is from dogs, but it doesn't tell us what percentage of the e. coli found is from each source. The test doesn't have practical value if it doesn't reveal the percentage of contribution. On top of this DNA testing is extremely expensive. So for reasons of cost and reliability DES chooses not to do DNA testing.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by ApS

I have an older, and even-more-inaccurate photo, that shows the dock-box sitting 20 feet higher on that same lot. It must be out-of-date, as well

For accuracy, I'll mark with an asterisk (*) the photos that are "inaccurate and out of date".


Yes, I agree: secondcurve tried, in one seemingly-harsh sentence, to put too much into my post. The late State Limnologist Jody Connor and I spoke regularly by telephone, but it was Shorethings who has patiently responded to my many frustrations about the health of the Big Lake.

In short:

• DNA can determine the specific source of E. coli contamination.

• Silt does not originate from waterfowl, but from erosion.

• Grass does not sufficiently retard runoff, and introduces nutrients that accelerate "eutrophication" of the lake from waterfowl and fertilizers.

• "Impervious surfaces" are the reason for those two different sites experiencing the effects of rapid rain runoff. (Not just driveways, but roofs).

• Erosion on Rattlesnake Island is even worse. (Photo 1*, below)

• Nearby, a 20-year-abandoned "Trust" property (ice-eaters operating in July—now sold) has seen erosion that is casting its trees into the lake. (Photo 2*, below). The abutting lot was visited by "Urban Tree Service" last week.

• And yes, increasingly-large boat wakes are responsible. (Photo 3*, below). Nature's waves haven't washed over my dock like these.

.

Sooo...it's nature taking it's course...
I believe we, as humans can do little to alter the ebb and flow of mother nature...just as the Earth is going through a cycle of warmer climate, I will not be here long enough to see any difference in one lifetime. Someday we'll be in the deep freeze again too. How old is Mother Earth?

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Sooo...it's nature taking it's course...
I believe we, as humans can do little to alter the ebb and flow of mother nature...just as the Earth is going through a cycle of warmer climate, I will not be here long enough to see any difference in one lifetime. Someday we'll be in the deep freeze again too. How old is Mother Earth?

Yes, nature taking it's course... like natural selection. Those individuals that cannot recognize and adapt to changing environmental conditions die off. Those that can persist.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by shore things

Yes, nature taking it's course... like natural selection. Those individuals that cannot recognize and adapt to changing environmental conditions die off. Those that can persist.

An unfortunate reality is sometimes natural selection takes way to long.

[tis]

Originally Posted by shore things

I brought your question to the folks the do our water quality sampling and testing. Certain strains of e. coli are better adapted to different hosts and you can differentiate between those strains. This works well testing in a controlled or limited system but not in an open lake environment. The problem is that the test can tell us that some is from goose, some is from humans, and some is from dogs, but it doesn't tell us what percentage of the e. coli found is from each source. The test doesn't have practical value if it doesn't reveal the percentage of contribution. On top of this DNA testing is extremely expensive. So for reasons of cost and reliability DES chooses not to do DNA testing.

Thank you so much for that reply. It's too bad because it would certainly be nice to know to try to eliminate the cause.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by shore things

Yes, nature taking it's course... like natural selection. Those individuals that cannot recognize and adapt to changing environmental conditions die off. Those that can persist.

As a "race" yes, but as individuals, we have about 80 years to "adapt" (and I would say most of us have higher priorities)

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

As a "race" yes, but as individuals, we have about 80 years to "adapt" (and I would say most of us have higher priorities)

Yup... natural selection...