Great Day / Sad Day

neckdweller · 08-28-2017, 03:10 PM

I'm not usually one to get in the way of a good rant and I don't have any love for government spending but...

-If the overall value of property in town goes up 14%, the town tax rate will not stay the same unless costs go up 14%. The town can't "get wealthy" by charging property owners 14% more than the town's budgeted spend. They can spend money at a higher clip because all that waterfront property gives them a nice tax base but they can't tax more and spend the same. I have a home in Moultonborough and they love to talk about the low tax rate but don't seem to mention the $1 billion + property valuation.

-Note the bolded words above. Waterfront property valuation will increase at a faster rate than non-waterfront property so those taxes are going to increase at a faster pace. If total spending goes up 4% in the same year that property was assessed, chances are your tax bill is going to go up more than 4%.

-While certain NH employees get a pension (teachers, fire, police and some municipal employees but not sure which), they have to contribute 5% or 6% of their pay to it and then the employer also kicks in a percentage. It's a weird hybrid of defined benefit and defined contribution.

-Lastly, I'm in the same situation. I inherited a house that is many multiples more valuable than when my parents built it in the 60's. Yes, the yearly taxes are more than they paid for the property but this is the very definition of a first world problem. At the end of the day I have a very valuable asset that I can choose to pay to keep or I can sell it and cash in. People may not feel like it because they are living in the asset and can't use it to pay the bill, but their net worth calculation says they are well off.

FlyingScot · 08-28-2017, 04:27 PM

Gary,

I'm sure you don't mean to sound like a guy who is upset that he's paying a lot of taxes as he flies cross country between two 7 figure homes, at least one of which he stumbled into as an accident of birth.

Drive a few minutes from your lake house, and it's easy to find hundreds of people who stumbled into much less.

garysanfran · 08-28-2017, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterG

Gary,

I'm sure you don't mean to sound like a guy who is upset that he's paying a lot of taxes as he flies cross country between two 7 figure homes, at least one of which he stumbled into as an accident of birth.

Drive a few minutes from your lake house, and it's easy to find hundreds of people who stumbled into much less.

I mentioned neighbors having problems. Read some of these other posts. My heart goes out to them. By the way I drive a 1992 car and my boat was built in 1988.

And, my tax in San Francisco is slightly less than 1/4 of my tax in Meredith where I have no sewage, no town water and they don't plow my road in winter.

San Francisco seems to not be suffering for lack of revenue, they just approved $5mm to provide legal support for "undocumented immigrants".

garysanfran · 08-28-2017, 10:24 PM

I assume when you say "at least one place I stumbled into by birth", means my inheritance? My parents bought the land in 1960. It has seen great appreciation. I have a lot of siblings who couldn't afford the place. In order to keep it in the family, I had to purchase the place from them at FMV, and recently. So my siblings got the benefit of the appreciation, and deservedly so. I did not reap a 50X return.

Woodsy · 08-29-2017, 10:25 AM

Gary... You mention that your property tax is 1/4 of Meredith. However, you also pay a 9.3% state income tax, (1.5% city income tax?) and 8.5% sales tax....

If you bought out your siblings @ FMV... You get to keep the financial rewards of your initial share of the an increase in property value when you decide to sell, and any additional increase in value as well. (you don't have to split the $$ with your siblings)

I am glad you are in a good financial position to do this for yourself & your family, but no offense, but its apples & oranges comparing CA to NH. California is the ranked 10th in tax burden.... NH is ranked 46th..

Woodsy

MAXUM · 08-29-2017, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

California is the ranked 10th in tax burden.... NH is ranked 46th..

Woodsy

That may be "technically" true but that stat is rather dubious when there are plenty of things that look, feel and might as well be taxes but manage to fly below the radar as fees. Still no comparison to California which is just plain off the reservation.

At least in NH if you have a 7 figures to play with you can buy a really nice house, compare that to San Francisco where you may be able to afford an upscale dumpster.

Woodsy · 08-29-2017, 07:34 PM

Maxum....

that's why I only listed the "big" taxes. Not the little ones like excise tax city sales taxes etc.

Woodsy

BroadHopper · 08-28-2017, 04:27 PM

My dad sold our family waterfront cottage in the late 90's when the state started to evaluate tax assessment. Taxes gone up six fold in the years following the education funding mess. Many families had to give up their heritage homes

The cottage was built by my great grandfather in 1892. At that time the 2 BR 2 story cottage was considered a mcmansion. The cottage reminds me of the cottage on 'On Golden Pond'. Many memories were made there as family and relatives spend many summers on the lake.

Sadly the property tax was more than we could bear. The new owners did not waste time in converting to a year round home. There was a petition to the town to maintain the road year round and the road was paved for the first time.

Nine years after it was sold, the owner made a fortune selling the property. The third owner tore down the existing structure and built a huge mcmansion. The economy soured (late 2000's) and the property went into forclosure. It was one of those cases the bank padlocked the building and the owners could not get their belongings, that winter all the pipes burst and the building was a huge mess and mold and mildew set in in the spring. The property went up for auction and no takers. The house sat for a few years, there was extensive vandalism until the bank boarded up the windows and doors. What a mess.

7 years later, without notice, the property was sold. Again the building was demolished and a beautiful Adirondack style home was built. The trust that bought it paid about what my dad sold it for!

At one time I was admiring the structure from the road and the owner approach me as he was proud of the new structure. I told him my family were the original owners and we bought it from the railroad. He was very interested in the story. He ask if I would like to come inside to look around. I politely declined as I want the property to remain as it is in my mind. I'm surprised he was a bit upset. I bid ado.

It's been 3 years since the last build and the property is for sale for 5 times what the trust paid for it. I wish them well.

What a roller coaster this property been through since we sold it in 1998. Lots of money was lost.

08-28-2017, 10:24 PM	#4
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,640 Thanks: 728 Thanked 705 Times in 363 Posts	Another point PeterG... I assume when you say "at least one place I stumbled into by birth", means my inheritance? My parents bought the land in 1960. It has seen great appreciation. I have a lot of siblings who couldn't afford the place. In order to keep it in the family, I had to purchase the place from them at FMV, and recently. So my siblings got the benefit of the appreciation, and deservedly so. I did not reap a 50X return. __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

08-29-2017, 10:25 AM	#5
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Gary... You mention that your property tax is 1/4 of Meredith. However, you also pay a 9.3% state income tax, (1.5% city income tax?) and 8.5% sales tax.... If you bought out your siblings @ FMV... You get to keep the financial rewards of your initial share of the an increase in property value when you decide to sell, and any additional increase in value as well. (you don't have to split the $$ with your siblings) I am glad you are in a good financial position to do this for yourself & your family, but no offense, but its apples & oranges comparing CA to NH. California is the ranked 10th in tax burden.... NH is ranked 46th.. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-29-2017, 07:34 PM	#7
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,974 Thanks: 80 Thanked 984 Times in 443 Posts	Maxum.... that's why I only listed the "big" taxes. Not the little ones like excise tax city sales taxes etc. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-28-2017, 04:27 PM	#8
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,669 Thanks: 3,285 Thanked 1,132 Times in 814 Posts	Sad state of Real Estate My dad sold our family waterfront cottage in the late 90's when the state started to evaluate tax assessment. Taxes gone up six fold in the years following the education funding mess. Many families had to give up their heritage homes The cottage was built by my great grandfather in 1892. At that time the 2 BR 2 story cottage was considered a mcmansion. The cottage reminds me of the cottage on 'On Golden Pond'. Many memories were made there as family and relatives spend many summers on the lake. Sadly the property tax was more than we could bear. The new owners did not waste time in converting to a year round home. There was a petition to the town to maintain the road year round and the road was paved for the first time. Nine years after it was sold, the owner made a fortune selling the property. The third owner tore down the existing structure and built a huge mcmansion. The economy soured (late 2000's) and the property went into forclosure. It was one of those cases the bank padlocked the building and the owners could not get their belongings, that winter all the pipes burst and the building was a huge mess and mold and mildew set in in the spring. The property went up for auction and no takers. The house sat for a few years, there was extensive vandalism until the bank boarded up the windows and doors. What a mess. 7 years later, without notice, the property was sold. Again the building was demolished and a beautiful Adirondack style home was built. The trust that bought it paid about what my dad sold it for! At one time I was admiring the structure from the road and the owner approach me as he was proud of the new structure. I told him my family were the original owners and we bought it from the railroad. He was very interested in the story. He ask if I would like to come inside to look around. I politely declined as I want the property to remain as it is in my mind. I'm surprised he was a bit upset. I bid ado. It's been 3 years since the last build and the property is for sale for 5 times what the trust paid for it. I wish them well. What a roller coaster this property been through since we sold it in 1998. Lots of money was lost. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

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08-28-2017, 03:10 PM	#1
neckdweller Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moultonborough & Southern NH Posts: 133 Thanks: 6 Thanked 37 Times in 18 Posts	I'm not usually one to get in the way of a good rant and I don't have any love for government spending but... -If the overall value of property in town goes up 14%, the town tax rate will not stay the same unless costs go up 14%. The town can't "get wealthy" by charging property owners 14% more than the town's budgeted spend. They can spend money at a higher clip because all that waterfront property gives them a nice tax base but they can't tax more and spend the same. I have a home in Moultonborough and they love to talk about the low tax rate but don't seem to mention the $1 billion + property valuation. -Note the bolded words above. Waterfront property valuation will increase at a faster rate than non-waterfront property so those taxes are going to increase at a faster pace. If total spending goes up 4% in the same year that property was assessed, chances are your tax bill is going to go up more than 4%. -While certain NH employees get a pension (teachers, fire, police and some municipal employees but not sure which), they have to contribute 5% or 6% of their pay to it and then the employer also kicks in a percentage. It's a weird hybrid of defined benefit and defined contribution. -Lastly, I'm in the same situation. I inherited a house that is many multiples more valuable than when my parents built it in the 60's. Yes, the yearly taxes are more than they paid for the property but this is the very definition of a first world problem. At the end of the day I have a very valuable asset that I can choose to pay to keep or I can sell it and cash in. People may not feel like it because they are living in the asset and can't use it to pay the bill, but their net worth calculation says they are well off.

08-28-2017, 04:27 PM	#2
FlyingScot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA Posts: 2,552 Thanks: 1,412 Thanked 1,075 Times in 668 Posts	Gary, I'm sure you don't mean to sound like a guy who is upset that he's paying a lot of taxes as he flies cross country between two 7 figure homes, at least one of which he stumbled into as an accident of birth. Drive a few minutes from your lake house, and it's easy to find hundreds of people who stumbled into much less.