Health Insurance

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Garcia

What I find frustrating is how easy it is to simply blame the other guy, or other party. Since the ACA was put into place the Republicans have campaigned relentlessly on how their plans and ideas will be so much better - more people covered, more choice, and lower costs. So what happened? It's clear there was no plan, just 7 years of talk, blame, and empty promises...

What's the solution? Start with this question - why are health care costs so much higher in the USA than the rest of the developed world? And, why is overall coverage lower? It's importantly to recognize that these are truths, not fake news.

Once people are willing to address the issue at hand and not simply blame the other guy or lament about the "good old days", we might find some answers. Given the state of affairs in Washington and the polarizing nature of the issue itself, I don't have lots of hope. IMHO there simply are far too few leaders (are there any?!) in our political system. Instead we have all kinds of blowhards, equally dispersed across the aisle.

Clearly I don't have the answer either!

I agree, and we could start by reigning in the drug companies and their ridiculous price gouging. They are all going to get big tax breaks with this new lower corporate tax law. Do you think they are going to give the consumer a break by lowering their drug prices? I think not!
There are soooo many Bio Tech companies taking over big spaces along RT128 in Ma. Why is that? Because the drug industry is a cash cow!
And then you have these big greedy Hedge Fund firms buying up these drug companies that have developed life saving drugs and raising the prices on drugs that people can't live with out.
These Hedge Fund firms are the ones screwing everyone to keep their investors happy. They should outlaw all Hedge Funds or tax them to death! I could rant on but my blood pressure is rising. Where are my pills?

[Major]

The reason why we are blaming the other guy is that at the time Obamacare was enacted, half the country did not want it. Health care, at that time, while not perfect, worked for most Americans. If the issue was 10-15 million Americans who "could not afford" healthcare, some of us would have been willing to create another welfare program to address this "issue," rather than destroy a system that worked for most people. It became a political issue rather than a policy issue.

Regarding drug companies, I work in Kendall Square, where there is even more development than on 128. Our firm represents a lot of start up pharma companies. Be careful what you wish for. I don't fault drug companies one bit for profiting on the investments they make. These companies hire the world's brightest people to solve the most difficult of medical issues. (The reason why most of these companies have a huge presence in Kendall Square is that they want to be close to the talent.) For every drug that makes it, thousands of drugs don't, representing billions upon billions of dollars lost. If you would prefer lower costs for existing drugs, then you can expect a serious reduction in R&D.

[Garcia]

I both agree and disagree with Major. While ultimately half the country did not want the ACA, to state things were fine the way they were is not accurate. During the 2008 campaign health care was one of if not the most important issues Americans wanted fixed. The ACA did not come out of thin air but instead was a response to a problem Americans identified. That's not to say it was done well or resolved the issue, but to think that if we just went back to pre 2008 policies everything will be fine isn't the case.

Either way, I stand by my earlier statement that people are far more interested in placing blame than offering realistic and feasible solutions. I realize I am not offering solutions here, just making observations.

[jbolty]

Really the wheels fell off when health care and insurance became about "wellness". The analogy now would be asking for car insurance to pay for new tires and brakes to reduce accidents.

Used to be a visit to the doctor for a sore throat or a stitch was cash money and insurance was reserved for big stuff like a broken leg or something requiring a stay in the hospital.

Funny thing is the idea of keeping people well to save money has not really worked out. There has been a push to reduce testing frequency and numbers. Turns out testing every single person for cancer or colonoscopies for all is way more expensive than treating those who get sick.

I only know what I read but it makes sense on the surface. Here's one example:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-overtreatment

[Biggd]

Health care costs were out of site before Obamacare. Obamacare hasn't slowed down the costs but more people have healthcare than ever before. I don't believe it should be scrapped but it needs changes.
Health care costs have been an ongoing problem for 20 some odd years now.
My wife has worked for the same company for 28 years and our health care options have steadily gone down hill in the past 20 years. Way before Obamacare.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Major

Regarding drug companies, I work in Kendall Square, where there is even more development than on 128. Our firm represents a lot of start up pharma companies. Be careful what you wish for. I don't fault drug companies one bit for profiting on the investments they make. These companies hire the world's brightest people to solve the most difficult of medical issues. (The reason why most of these companies have a huge presence in Kendall Square is that they want to be close to the talent.) For every drug that makes it, thousands of drugs don't, representing billions upon billions of dollars lost. If you would prefer lower costs for existing drugs, then you can expect a serious reduction in R&D.

I'll take that a step further.... I work for a company that does clinical trials for all the major drug companies. For every drug that hits the market there are likely hundreds if not thousands of failed trials that contribute to a single success. This represents an enormous investment of both time and money to get these things to market and work their way through the FDA approval process. Mind you the drug companies are not necessarily gouging people, why some drugs are way more expensive than others is mostly a result of the aforementioned process given the limited amount of time the drug companies have to recoup costs before they become eligible to become generics. Also not taken under consideration is how exotic the process is to manufacture them and the overall demand for them. The bottom line is it takes a lot to get them out there and the general public just seems to think this all should just be provided because they want it cheap and the drug companies are evil for wanting to make a buck or two.

Also another factor, even drugs that have made it into the market place some times have long term effects that are negative in nature not known at the time of release. This turns into massive class action lawsuits which the drug companies, doctors and even us - a third party clinical trial company have to defend, many time resulting in massive payouts. Keep in mind people this is not exact 100% science and while so many "miracle" drugs have been created - you cannot expect that every drug out there is going to be a home run. These are drugs for humans created by humans. That's not to say some compensation is not due but getting millions of dollars because your hair turned green isn't exactly an equitable solution yet many times that is exactly what happens.

Bottom line, many now a days are spoiled and want to pop a pill to address any and every ailment, pain or fill in the blank they have and expect that it will cost them little or nothing to do so with no side effects or risks. That is simply never going to happen.

The reduction in R&D is already happening we've seen a number of trials pulled not because of a lack of success but the over run of costs to keep them going where ultimately the bang for the buck isn't there. Sad considering it is the current climate that is making some of this stuff cost prohibitive to continue.

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'll take that a step further.... I work for a company that does clinical trials for all the major drug companies.

Bottom line, many now a days are spoiled and want to pop a pill to address any and every ailment, pain or fill in the blank they have and expect that it will cost them little or nothing to do so with no side effects or risks.

It's easy to say everyone is "pill happy," and especially so if it's a choice for you, but some people are stuck with meds that cost so much more on Medicare, it's a major expense.

Since you understand the industry, could you explain why a drug that's not cheap but somewhat affordable can increase in price many times over in just a year? It's hard to understand, as a consumer.

thanks,
mac

[FlyingScot]

One thing that makes both of these discussions complex is that we need to hold contradictory thoughts in our head. The pharma industry saves millions of people every year from cancer, heart disease, and other terrible ailments. But it also takes every opportunity it can to increase its profits by hiking drug prices.

Similarly, Obamacare has led to millions of additional people being insured. But it's not perfect.

I'm pretty sure that all of us would accept all statements above to be facts. But too many of us rush to judgement on one aspect of a situation, and then become blind to the others.

[Woody38]

Maximum GREED. Not to long ago a treatment of erythromycin (40 tablets) cost maybe $5.00 I couldn't believe it when a pharmacist recently told me the same today costs $400.00. He was amazed also. This antibiotic has been around for decades so why the huge increase. Seems there was about to be restraints placed on Pharma's. So they beat the rush by increasing the prices soon to beat the constraints.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by PeterG

One thing that makes both of these discussions complex is that we need to hold contradictory thoughts in our head. The pharma industry saves millions of people every year from cancer, heart disease, and other terrible ailments. But it also takes every opportunity it can to increase its profits by hiking drug prices.

Similarly, Obamacare has led to millions of additional people being insured. But it's not perfect.

I'm pretty sure that all of us would accept all statements above to be facts. But too many of us rush to judgement on one aspect of a situation, and then become blind to the others.

And Obamacare is unsustainable, another fact.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I agree, and we could start by reigning in the drug companies and their ridiculous price gouging. They are all going to get big tax breaks with this new lower corporate tax law. Do you think they are going to give the consumer a break by lowering their drug prices? I think not!
There are soooo many Bio Tech companies taking over big spaces along RT128 in Ma. Why is that? Because the drug industry is a cash cow!
And then you have these big greedy Hedge Fund firms buying up these drug companies that have developed life saving drugs and raising the prices on drugs that people can't live with out.
These Hedge Fund firms are the ones screwing everyone to keep their investors happy. They should outlaw all Hedge Funds or tax them to death! I could rant on but my blood pressure is rising. Where are my pills?

Add to this the fact that hedge fund managers are able to avoid high payroll taxes using the law they had their politicians pass that allows them to call their "wages" capital gains at the lower tax rate of 15% rather than the 39% rate they should pay on wages. The new Trump plan carries the same provision allowing them to escape high taxes that you and i will pay.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

Add to this the fact that hedge fund managers are able to avoid high payroll taxes using the law they had their politicians pass that allows them to call their "wages" capital gains at the lower tax rate of 15% rather than the 39% rate they should pay on wages. The new Trump plan carries the same provision allowing them to escape high taxes that you and i will pay.

I thought Trump had promised to change that part of the tax code so that Hedge Fund managers would pay at the regular rate like everyone else? Just another lie out of his mouth.