No wake - lake wide??

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

Why is it so terribly unreasonable to ask boaters to go headway speed for a few short weeks in order to protect property and the environment from further unnecessary damage? Your "blame the victim" attitude is little more than a petty rationalization so you can "justify" your poor citizenship in the lakes community. You exemplify precisely why a temporary but mandatory NW ordinance is needed before this weekend.

I've forwarded your post to the Dept of Safety, making exactly that point to them. Thanks for sharing.

I've also printed off this post and faxed it to the Governor's office 603-271-7680. They need to get their heads out of certain dark places.

[NonVoting Taxpayer]

Hey jrc, just curious, where were you going that it was so necessary for you to go out on your boat when the lake was so high and they were asking for no wakes? Are you one of those people who drives around the barricades when they are doing road construction?

[KonaChick]

JRC..when i heard the rains were coming I tried to move back my 175' of shoreline but my husband and I got tired of all the shoveling....

[Russtic]

"Mandatory common sense" by way of a mandatory lake-wide NWZ is needed for a couple weeks. A small price to pay to preserve the lake.
Russtic

[tricia1218]

You are going to be sadly dissappointed if you are expecting manditory common sense to prevent damage. This is a society that has on Coffee cups "Hot" and on plastic bags "please do not place on head."

Not trying to be a smart***, just pointing out a fact.

[topwater]

Common sense, the dictionary describes it as, A VIRTUE THAT 95% OF BOATERS DON'T HAVE ! If you fall into the 5% don't do any bashing, you know I'm correct !! With that said, the MOTTO of this great state we live in is " LIVE FREE OR DIE " which means you should be able to do what you want-when you want to, IF it is not againest the law! This is a wonderful state we live in, its just to bad we can't all get along. It will never happen , people will always think they have every right and the next person has none, because it happens to THEM ! If all the Island property owners got together and published a few phamplets and posted at thier respective launches, it might make a difference. I KNOW- I KNOW it shouldn't cost YOU any money, but the state will do nothing because it is not a mandatory NWZ. Just my thought on the subject. No need to bash anyone, this is not directed at anyone, just MY thoughts. OH and Yes I have a boat and I do go On Winnie alot, however did not take the boat out this weekend due to the high waters everywhere.

[jrc]

Well, I knew I would take a verbal bashing here, so I'm not going to complain. I decided to boat as my recreation. Yes, I could have choosen to pick a different activity. Some of you decided to own an island or shorefront home as a recreation. You could have bought a house in the mountains. Your choice does not trump mine. Your dock is no more necessary than my boat. I broke no laws and actually adjusted my activities to suit the conditions. The fact that I didn't completely comply with the urging of our MP is my choice. I applied the spirit of the suggestion and avoided wakes near shore.

The owner and operators of the Mount Washinton made the same choice. The Mount was out all weekend. She ran at her normal speed, with no more than a dozen passengers on board.

Bear Islander, a few weeks from now, when someone runs into the dock section you lost will you pay to repair his boat? Why didn't you at least tie some rope to the sections so they wouldn't get away. When you repair this dock will you build it for the next flood in about 2016, or will just expect me to watch out for you again? I'm not saying platinum, just high enough and sturdy enough for the normal Winnipesaukee flood conditions.

[Great Idea]

We were out at our place on Sat/Sun and waves from the passing boats were coming 15 to 20 feet into our yard. jrc's attitude is no surprise. One boat went by three times with a large butt dragging wake just so they could get another look at the "spectacle" and water crawling like a small tsunami into our yard. They even took pictures! UNBELIEVABLE. 2 areas of the shoreline have already failed and 2-3 more areas are soon to follow if we get the normal Memorial Day traffic and cabin cruiser parade. The damage to our property may well be in the thousands of dollars or more? Probably not worth arqueing with folks like those who took pixs of it or those like jrc since they don't really cares unless it is happening directly to them. I will however share it with Marine Patrol in hopes they might see the light and do something before someone else experiences significant damage also. Please do what you can follow forum members and spread the word that NO WAKE is the right thing to do over the next couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for your help. Slow down and enjoy the ride.

[Bear Islander]

jrc

If somebody hits my dock section I will give them an apology and pay for the damage if my insurance won't. That's because I take responsibility for my actions. You should try it sometime.

I hope you don't go through life thinking your actions are acceptable just because they're not illegal. Anyway you ARE legally responsible for any damage done by your wake.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

jrc

If somebody hits my dock section I will give them an apology and pay for the damage if my insurance won't. That's because I take responsibility for my actions. You should try it sometime...

Bear Islander has earn my respect with this and I take him at his word. I'm actually sorry I called him out in my last post, I should not have gotten personal.

I always take resposibility for my actions, how have I ducked them? I came on this forum and admitted what I did.

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

jrc
...I hope you don't go through life thinking your actions are acceptable just because they're not illegal. Anyway you ARE legally responsible for any damage done by your wake.

I'm sorry, but in our society we are governed by laws. My actions were acceptable because they were legal and I did no damage. I was at least 500 feet from shore before I made a wake. How big is my wake at 500 feet? Could you even measure it's effect versus the damage caused by flooding and wind driven waves.

I have focused on damage to human structures mainly because the jury is still out on environmental issues. Many environmentalist will argue that although floods cause short term damage, in the long run they are good for the ecosystem. Why do you think they are always trying to get dams removed.

[Rinkerfam]

By Memorial Day weekend 2005, I had already been on my boat three times. As I post this reply, I have not yet seen my boat this season. If the lake level does not improve by this weekend, even though it will cause me great mental anguish, my boating will be limited to "headway speed" if I go out at all. Preservation of the lake as well as a consideration for those who live on her shores are the underlying motivation for me.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by jrc

{snip}
I'm sorry, but in our society we are governed by laws. My actions were acceptable because they were legal and I did no damage. I was at least 500 feet from shore before I made a wake. How big is my wake at 500 feet? Could you even measure it's effect versus the damage caused by flooding and wind driven waves.
{snip}

While I don't entirely disagree that we as waterfront-ers and dock-ers should take the primary responsibility for proactively limiting the damage due to unusual weather / flooding, I don't think that means you should do whatever you want. I don't mean this in a strictly legal sense but rather in a common courtesy sense. A parallel might be a case of conflicting lawn parties. You might have one every weekend and play the music you like at or under the legal limit. I might have one special occasion (say a wedding) where I'd like to not hear your music that day. Knowing this is a unusual and not frequent occasion I would hope that you'd respect my wish and hold off for that short time, not because you are legally reguired to but rather because it's the courteous thing to do.

As to the damage caused by wakes on docks ... it's going to depend on the dock and wake size obviously. I saw a number of boats on plane up and down Alton Bay this weekend, some leaving bigger wakes than others. The wind today did more damage (to 2 docks up and down from ours) than those wakes did. Put more boats out there and have the wakes combine (think next weekend) and it might have been a different story. While I'd like to be able to authoritatively tell you at what distance your wake will have diminished to some inconsequential size, I can't. I can say I've watched the wakes come from boats across the bay (1000+ ft away) and they look to be the same size as 100 ft away. It wouldn't surprise me if it took more than a mile to reduce a wake to "small". It's on my "got nuthin better to do list" to measure some day.

As to a mandatory lake wide NWZ - now that the fishing derby has passed I'll guess it'll happen. The authorities need to implement it now and get the word out if they want any meaningful compliance come next weekend, when it'll be needed (assuming we now can't get the lake down 6+"). I talked to 2 neighbors, both with boats and neither had heard of the voluntary NWS restriction this weekend. Neither would I, had it not been for the forum.

[Grant]

You can mandate no-wake zones and speed limits, but not common sense.

[Bear Islander]

You are correct Grant.

And if everybody had common sense, and used it, we wouldn't need so many laws.

[Woodsy]

Woodsy's Prediction for the Weekend...

Sometime during the day friday, a mandatory NWZ will be implemented. This will be implemented on friday so as to minimize the impact to local businesses from people cancelling thier weekend plans... gotta love that 24hr cancellation rule all the hotels/motels have.

At the risk of getting lynched...

As far this debate goes, it is a silly p*ss*ng contest between the haves (waterfront property owners) and the have nots (tourists & non property owning boaters). Niether interest trumps the other. If the lake wide NWZ was voluntary, then jrc did nothing wrong. He is under no legal obligation at all to limit his activities because a bunch of property owners didn't build thier docks properly. In fact, IF (thats a big IF) his wake damaged a dock, I don't think the dock owner would have ANY legal recourse. Although he is responsible for the damage his wake causes, I doubt a court would find him responsible for damaging a dock that was built below the high water mark, essentially an making it an improperly built dock.

Shoreline Erosion is an issue to be sure, and boat wakes don't help. But erosion is a natural process. If the NH DES was concerned about shoreline erosion they too would have asked for a lake-wide NWZ. I suspect we will hear from them before the weekend.

Alot of you speak about common sense. Its really kind of funny because it is strictly from your point of view, most vocal are the waterfront property owners. Just because the lake is 13" high, you expect everyone to know enough to slow down. Most people don't know how high the lake is. A small blurb in the local newspaper does not an informed public make. Unlike 1998, this was not a well covered media event. You cannot expect someone to behave in a different manner if they are not informed.

As an informed individual, I have left my boat tied to the dock.

Woodsy

[KonaChick]

It is YOUR responsibility as a boat owner to know the conditions of the body of water you are boating on. With such easy access to the internet and so many different publications it's not difficult to find out.

[Island Lover]

Hi Woodsy

Since there is a guy on the lake with a $700,000.00 Nor-Tec boat I'm not sure the boaters are really the "have nots". Plus there are quite a few performance boats and Carvers that cost more than waterfront property.

There a many families that have a small cabin on the water because 75 years ago grandfather paid $200 for a lot and built it on weekends. Some are blue collar folk that have a problem coming up with the taxes every year. They live in fear that they will have to sell the family heirloom if property values get to crazy.

Some cabins are owned by multiple families, a cabin near me has four owners that timeshare.

Your have and have not theory doesn't hold water.

[Woodsy]

Island Lover...

You missed my point. This is about what the waterfront property owners want vs what is best for the general public. I am just pointing out that there is more than one point of view on this issue.

Waterfront property owners are approaching this problem from your point of view, essentially your wallet. You don't want the additional cost of repairing your dock. I don't blame you. However, had the dock been built to height greater than the high water mark, you wouldn't have this problem. 13" inches above full lake does not make this a flood of epic proportions.

As I have stated before there are many competing interests, waterfront property owners, businesses, public access and use etc. It is very difficult to balance these competing interests. In the end no one is truly happy with the compromises the politicians will come up with.

I understand that some struggle to make the tax payments. Lake Winnipesaukee property values have skyrocketed, driven by other folks who can afford to pay the taxes. I wish I had the luxury of being in a position that allowed me to afford both a primary residence and a waterfront vacation residence. Sadly I do not...

BTW, The $700K Nortech owner has a nice property on the water... He is a "Have".

An article on WMUR... http://www.wmur.com/news/9260614/detail.html

Woodsy

[Dave R]

I tend to agree with Woodsy on this one. One should consider nature a bit more when contructing a dock or residence. Leaving a dock in for the Winter (and sustaining unknown damage) and then being unable to tend to it during an accurately forecasted heavy rain spell, to me, is a pretty irresponsible thing to do. That dock could very well become the debris we all hate to see floating around in the lake. Frankly, I'd rather see beer cans, given the choice; at least they won't sink a boat or rip off a lower unit and make a big oily mess.

That said, I'm keeping my boat out of Winnipesaukee until the NWZ request is lifted. Just cuz I can legally make waves does not mean I will... I do feel empathy for those who did not plan well and hope the damage you sustain is minimal.

[KonaChick]

Reading some of the replies as to why there shouldn't be a NWZ lakewide reminds me of my teenage son and how he argues about being responsible. He always has some spin on it as to why his irresponsible actions are okay. What I suggest property owners do this weekend is make sure your video cameras are all charged up and get out there and start filming! As the law states you are responsible for your wake and any damage it causes. Get it on film and if someone's wake causes damage to your property record it and get the tape to Marine Patrol.

[Orion]

You guys are missing the point. The docks are not the main concern. When the water submerged them, those that were vulnerable were generally damaged at that point as the decking floated off. While there may still be some docks that could sustain further damage due to wave action, those would likely be far and few between. On the other hand, nearly the entire shoreline has some soil areas that are now under water. The wave action is deteriorating those areas, damaging the erosion control plant life and undermining waterfront tree root systems. It is also causing siltation as the sediments are washed into the lake and creating areas for weed beds to grow. I won't even mention formerly fertilized grass areas that are now awash.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by jrc

Well, I knew I would take a verbal bashing here, so I'm not going to complain. I decided to boat as my recreation. Yes, I could have choosen to pick a different activity. Some of you decided to own an island or shorefront home as a recreation. You could have bought a house in the mountains. Your choice does not trump mine. Your dock is no more necessary than my boat. I broke no laws and actually adjusted my activities to suit the conditions. The fact that I didn't completely comply with the urging of our MP is my choice. I applied the spirit of the suggestion and avoided wakes near shore.

The owner and operators of the Mount Washinton made the same choice. The Mount was out all weekend. She ran at her normal speed, with no more than a dozen passengers on board.

Bear Islander, a few weeks from now, when someone runs into the dock section you lost will you pay to repair his boat? Why didn't you at least tie some rope to the sections so they wouldn't get away. When you repair this dock will you build it for the next flood in about 2016, or will just expect me to watch out for you again? I'm not saying platinum, just high enough and sturdy enough for the normal Winnipesaukee flood conditions.

Sadly this is the attitude that I feared would occur with a "voluntary" lakewide no wake zone.
What you are failing to consider here jrc is the amount of silt and junk your wake is dragging into the lake as you tool around. Also the damage to the shoreline that you are causing. I know it requires a little sacrifice, but a week or two at headway speed isn't a big deal and the lake will be better for it. It's not just about Bear's dock, or a few homes that are in the flood plain. I think as long as the lake is as flooded as it is now there should be a mandatory lake wide no wake zone. The NWZ should stay in effect until the lake is within a couple of inches of full lake.

[Knomad]

I would hope that the property owners do not take the comments of a few irresponsible boat owners as being a majority opinion. Though our lake property is our slip and our boat, I think most boat owners appreciate and respect the concerns of the land owners.
I spent all day Monday with the help of "neighbors" filling and pilling up sandbags and was able to keep my residence dry from the backwater of the Merrimack river. The least I can do to help my lake neighbors from sustaining any damage to their property.