Ragged island overnight

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ApS

What could go wrong?

It already has,,,

[Wifi-1]

Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Wifi-1

Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !

Good catch, guess someone has to keep track of those pesky swimmers from the UFOs.

Maybe thats the true purpose of this thing.

I've seen some strange things on the lake over the last 50+ years but this one tops them all so far.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Wifi-1

Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !

Probably not a radar array on the roof. More likely a TV receiver for Dish or DirectTV, like you see on RVs.

Dave

[SAB1]

Sorry xcr but I’ll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. Wasn’t singling our day trippers just used that for example.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Sorry xcr but IÂ’ll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. WasnÂ’t singling our day trippers just used that for example.

Ok by me, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I have mine and they differ. No worries here.

As for what we see now (a changed lake from 20+ years ago), I agree! I think were we part company is what we see and why.

What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards.

At this point I will no longer boat on Winnipesaukee on Saturdays, and even Sundays are becoming a problem.

Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers. Its just too hard to trailer the size boats we see on Winnipesaukee and there are just too few places to launch from and park a truck and trailer and do so for a price a working family can afford on a regular basis. As for trailer boaters, I mostly see families trailering their modest size boats and then taking them home at the end of the day. Not dudes looking to party hard and find a place to drop anchor when they are on the verge of passing out.

You may be seeing something different.

Clearly the lake has evolved, some of it not to my liking, but it is still a place that I cherish.

And I recognize people have different preferences;

I thoroughly enjoy a whiff of 2-cycle oil from an old outboard staring up first thing in the morning and the sound of a thru-hull exhaust on an old jet boat, but I have no use to hear anyone's music blasting across the lake.

You may have a very different set of likes and dislikes, and that ok, so long as we both respect each others reasonable boundaries.

What I worry about is restrictive rules/laws based on fear mongering and/or the few instances of serious problems. I mostly shrug off the obnoxious idiots, I guess I assume they will eventually move on to the next thing that allows them to show off.

But I dont live there every day, so again, you may be seeing something different and more of it.

ATB

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers.

Perhaps the reason you don’t see large boats being trailered is because they can’t anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.

[SAB1]

XCR- Totally agree with your thoughts on response. Now consider this:

"What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards"

With some number of boats each weekend say 100 anchored for a weekend overnight...

Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.

And not likely to change.

I lose no sleep over it, just dont agree it was ever a significant problem or ever would be.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Perhaps the reason you don’t see large boats being trailered is because they can’t anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.

No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.

And we know thats not happening!

Sadly the lake is not accessible to a lot of people, and that is just the way it will stay.

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.

Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.

Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

Not saying they are not entitled to whatever they can get for the use of their land and facilities, but the state and towns around the lake are grossly negligent in providing open access and parking.

Its an inexcusable travesty likely brought on by all my Massachusetts neighbors who have bought second homes on the lake over the last 30 years and want to keep others away, when in reality they are often the most obnoxious people on the lake.

Trust me I know my neighbors, the term Massholes fits most of us from MA perfectly. PERFECTLY

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.

Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.

But we are now veering way of topic on this thread, and I'm sure this has all been debated before until the forums web-server is near full.

The past is the past and the future is controlled by the wealthy and the voices of change who I feel certain have their own best interest at heart

[Rinkerguy]

There still are a few free or inexpensive launch sites on the lake.
Alton is still free, but nowhere to park a trailer except for Letter S Road.

West Alton is expanding again, new gas docks and another set of docks going in.
Pretty soon they will be as big as Mountain View.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.

What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.

Maybe my english is not good, YES marinas should be able to charge what they want to use their ramps and park on their grounds and use their facilities!

That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities! Seems to me you even have state laws requiring the state to provide access.

The two situations are NOT mutually exclusive.

As for taxes, no I do not pay NH taxes, but I do register my boat in NH (which costs more than MA at last I checked) as I feel I should be paying for the resources I use. I also buy all my gas in NH (boat and truck) when we boat there, and we spend prolifically in NH to support NH businesses as opposed to buying on the internet and not patronizing local business.

As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover! Not pay for the Governor to go overseas on so called business trips or attend Governors conventions or other nonsense.

Fact is, the ramps were there, towns and the state simply failed to use their revenue to fund the required improvements and/or relocate them when there was a need, and in some cases blocked non-residents from using them.

You want the registration fees, and NH business want all the revenue day boaters and vacationers spend, but you turn your nose up at us like you bought the lake with your house. Sorry you didn't and you wouldn't have most of the amenities you have today if it were not for the day boaters and vacationers.

And the same goes for snowmobiling. The revenue generated for NH by these two activities is quite substantial and helps the residents enjoy much better amenities than they would ever have if not for the money coming from out of state.

Or maybe you would prefer all the taxes you pay in Massachusetts only to have places like Harold Parker where you cannot boat OR own land on the water. Well that would certainly resolve your anchoring and sleeping on the lake problem!

And again, we are way off topic on this thread. Sorry rant over, just had to get it out of my system. Let the daggers fly. I've said enough on this one,,,

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities!

Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.

Originally Posted by XCR-700

As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover!

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.

Nope I meant FREE. Publicly funded means something different to me. I pay a registration to use NH waters, and my fees should be enough for others who dont need to register (kayakers, row boats and others) to use the facilities for free.

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

Yes, and with snowmobile registration those funds are redistributed back to local snowmobile clubs to maintain the trails. If the state is not sending some of the registration fees back to the local communities, then they should be raising hell over it.

Truthfully I'm not sure who maintains public boat ramps in NH, but you can make a solid argument that both the state and local communities benefit from the visitors coming to use these facilities so they should both play a role in making them as robust as possible.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.

And I guess that would make those of us who paid sales tax in our own state idiots,,,

Oh well I'm sure that wont be the last mistake I'll make in my life.

[LIforrelaxin]

Well isn't this thread going all kinds of wonderful places.....

So the OP stayed overnight on or buy Ragged Island... Was anyone Hurt? Did he leave a mess or pollution behind? Did he cause any damage to anything on the island?

I understand full well who owns the island, at that part of their rules are that there isn't supposed to be overnight stays, with out approval. But come on, I don't see anything in the rules, that stops me from taking a ride out their at midnight, and walking around the island with a flashlight... (other then the fact that I am generally asleep these days by 10:30)

I love this lake, but what it is becoming is very upsetting. It is a great asset to the state, and local economies, but it appears that all the State, Towns, and residents want to do is push people away so that their shangrala is a private club.

Why can't people anchor overnight if the boat is capable of supporting such activity? Especially if they do it in an area where they are not disturbing residents... On the southwest side of Ragged is a perfect example of that. Why don't the towns want to produce revenue with some transient docking, and allowing people transient slips that they can be in from say 10 P.M. to 8 A.M. so as to not inter fear with the day use of the docks. Why doesn't a group like LRCT, support the use of their land for enjoyment? They do a wonderful job of preserving it..... But come one, put a couple of tentsite in on Ragged Island, that people can use... I am sure they could find a retired member that would be willing to summer on the island, and make sure people pick up and take care of the place, or lose a deposit, that they had to leave for the right to use the site......


Honestly what is the purpose of preserving beauty, if you don't allow people to use and enjoy it. What is the purpose of restricting the use of asset such as lake Winnipesaukee, such that people stop wanting to spend time there... These things are happening.... When I started coming up in the 80s and 90s, finding a hotel room on a weekend was unheard of..... in 2019, I have seen smaller place close, and almost any weekend I pass by at least one Hotel or Motel that has a room available.

As much as NH claims to be the live free or Die state, it is really starting to become the, its ours to enjoy but not yours unless you do as we say state.....

Sorry this is how I feel.... but I think it is sad.... I have a 10 year plan in my life, and for those 10 years I plan to continue to keep my families camp on Winnipesaukee, because it is convenient, and easy to get to from where my career dictates I live. But slowly I am making my mind up, that Winnipesaukee is no longer where I wish to retire, the society around the lake is becoming more like an exclusive country club, then a place of relaxation to get away from the societal norms......

[ApS]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

What could go wrong?


It already has,,,

How about a multi-family houseboat to take up even more space on a crowded lake? Maybe anchored off your shore?

It just needs paint, that's all.

While withholding summer income from lake businesses, what's a good fee schedule for this houseboat? $125?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ApS

How about a multi-family houseboat to take up even more space on a crowded lake? Maybe anchored off your shore?

It just needs paint, that's all.

While withholding summer income from lake businesses, what's a good fee schedule for this houseboat? $125?

Personally I enjoy a little redneck engineering.

So I vote for the top one! He/she/whoever can park in front of my house any day so long as I can get a tour.



p.s. I particularly like the old 2-stroke Johnson! Nothing beats the smell of 2-cycle oil and marine/white gas first think in the morning, it's THE best.

[Garcia]

I don’t think you can moor your boat and sleep on it on Lake George. You can reserve a campsite on a state owned island, but if you don’t have a reservation, cannot just drop anchor and spend the night.

There are not any state owned islands on Winnipesaukee, so I don’t see a system like Lake George ever happening.

I don’t have a philosophical issue with someone spending a night on a public dock, but from a practical point of view see nothing but problems. Public dock space is already at a premium and the three hour time is often ignored. On a summer night the docks in Meredith are often full until 8:00 at night, sometimes later. What time would someone be able to pull up for the night - and what time would they have to leave?

I’m not that familiar with Champlain or the Thousand Islands. My guess, and it’s just that, is that they must have more spaces available to the public than Winnipesaukee. Also, in either of those areas can you anchor wherever you want and sleep on board, or do you have to be at a dock?

Regardless of how any of us feel about the issue, the reality is that the rules as they currently exist are not going to change.

[Descant]

I have many memories of sleeping over at public docks, enumerated in old threads. Basically, it got too crowded and the towns weren't willing to deal with it. Charging a fee to stay overnight, and setting a plan so that a one time walk through for enforcement makes sense to me. It works for parking downtown. I think the towns are missing an opportunity. So are the motels that have their own docks.
I'd be happy to pay a meter fee if that got me a dockmaster to manage the sequence of boats and made people stop blocking other boats by tying up in the middle of the dock.

[iw8surf]

We take 2 trips on 70' house boats every year in both Bull Shoals Lake in Arkansas and on Lake Powell. Its pretty amazing stepping onto a boat that you control and isn't a "cruise ship" and not touching land for a week. And if you do touch land its usually unoccupied. We typically travel for a day or two camp over night and keep moving until we hit our destination. Anchor up the house boat there and enjoy the week with the out and about boat to explore. Now I don't really see that being practical on Winni but its definitely an awesome experience if you ever get the chance to try. And oh man the stars from out there.

[XCR-700]

Probably a story for a new thread, but I for one would love to hear about the Lake Powell experience. Oh and I would love to see pictures too!!!

Its one of my bucket list trips once I retire.

Thanks!

[Blyblvrd]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Probably a story for a new thread, but I for one would love to hear about the Lake Powell experience. Oh and I would love to see pictures too!!!

Its one of my bucket list trips once I retire.

Thanks!

We did it 5 years ago with another family on a 75’ house boat with a full kitchen and four bedrooms. Still our families favorite vacation. We flew into Vegas, drove and stayed a couple nights and hiked at both Bryce Canyon and Zion National Park. Then worked our way to Lake Powell where we spent 6 days boating, hiking and camping. As said above the stars are unbelievable. One of the few vacations we may repeat.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

I have many memories of sleeping over at public docks, enumerated in old threads. Basically, it got too crowded and the towns weren't willing to deal with it. Charging a fee to stay overnight, and setting a plan so that a one time walk through for enforcement makes sense to me. It works for parking downtown. I think the towns are missing an opportunity. So are the motels that have their own docks.
I'd be happy to pay a meter fee if that got me a dockmaster to manage the sequence of boats and made people stop blocking other boats by tying up in the middle of the dock.

Why would you need to tie up to a town dock?

New Hampshire doesn't require pump-out inspections as required in Florida's ocean waters.

You can rent a barge and put your RV on it—throw out an anchor anywhere. 'Save on Property Taxes.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by ApS

Why would you need to tie up to a town dock?

New Hampshire doesn't require pump-out inspections as required in Florida's ocean waters.

You can rent a barge and put your RV on it—throw out an anchor anywhere. 'Save on Property Taxes.

1. Public dock so I can walk to the doughnut shop in the morning.
1a. If it's windy, my anchor won't drag
1b. Lots more boats fit on docks than anchored in the same space
1c. Town docks are not in front of private property.
1d. The dockmaster can speak to those who are too noisy/rowdy
2. New Hampshire requires that all marine heads be inspected by DES and an approval sticker be affixed to the vessel. Fine for illegal discharge is up to $2000. RSA 487.
3.Rent a barge, etc? Maybe in FL. In NH that's a "houseboat" under RSA 287.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Descant

1. Public dock so I can walk to the doughnut shop in the morning.
1a. If it's windy, my anchor won't drag
1b. Lots more boats fit on docks than anchored in the same space
1c. Town docks are not in front of private property.
1d. The dockmaster can speak to those who are too noisy/rowdy
2. New Hampshire requires that all marine heads be inspected by DES and an approval sticker be affixed to the vessel. Fine for illegal discharge is up to $2000. RSA 487.
3.Rent a barge, etc? Maybe in FL. In NH that's a "houseboat" under RSA 287.

DES used to come around to the marina periodically to inspect and put the sticker on the boat. They have not been around for several years to do this.

[tis]

I thought they just did it once so once you had the sticker you were all set????

[TiltonBB]

Yes you were all set if you had the sticker but they still came through marinas because there is a lot of turnover of boats. For example, I know at one time over half of the 284 slips at Mountain View were occupied by renters and those turn over more frequently.

Don Cheeseborough (sp?) fondly known as "Cheese" was the man most frequently seen performing the inspections. The state gave him a small boat to travel around the lake for inspections. He was well into his 80's and still came around every year.

He was also a ski instructor at Gunstock in his 80's. He had a lot of energy until the end. A real nice guy. If he found a boat that was not in compliance he would ask you to fix it and tell you he would be back in a couple of weeks to check it again.

[Descant]

I'm not sure how inspections work. If a DES inspector walks around the docks at my marina, or cruises by in his boat and I don't have a sticker, can s/he board? Does the marina operator have to allow access or do they have to make an appointment with me? (The marina has the keys) I'm there on weekends. Likely they (DES) work M-F.
In my case, the marina says they can't (won't) launch a boat that isn't compliant, so there is a built-in enforcement, at least for non-trailer boats.
Whatever the system is, it sees to be working, so I applaud DES and the marinas for working together on this.

[tis]

They came to our dock and said we needed a sticker and of course we let them go on the boat and they inspected it and put the sticker on.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I don’t think you can moor your boat and sleep on it on Lake George. You can reserve a campsite on a state owned island, but if you don’t have a reservation, cannot just drop anchor and spend the night.

There are not any state owned islands on Winnipesaukee, so I don’t see a system like Lake George ever happening.

I don’t have a philosophical issue with someone spending a night on a public dock, but from a practical point of view see nothing but problems. Public dock space is already at a premium and the three hour time is often ignored. On a summer night the docks in Meredith are often full until 8:00 at night, sometimes later. What time would someone be able to pull up for the night - and what time would they have to leave?

I’m not that familiar with Champlain or the Thousand Islands. My guess, and it’s just that, is that they must have more spaces available to the public than Winnipesaukee. Also, in either of those areas can you anchor wherever you want and sleep on board, or do you have to be at a dock?

Regardless of how any of us feel about the issue, the reality is that the rules as they currently exist are not going to change.

You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Dave R

You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.

Thank you, especially for the info on Lake George. I was told one could not anchor overnight there; good to know you can.

[LIforrelaxin]

Dave R, thanks for your observations, knowing how much you have traveled round and are intending to travel around, I think you are the expert on what is allowed where and when....

I personally lived in Vermont, on the Champlain Islands for almost 10 years. Many of my colleagues owned boats on the lake, and used to spend the night at various locations, including the Burton Islands.... I was to foolish to not realize what I should have been taking more advantage of. However I rent an apartment on the lake that had direct access to the water.... So I am not to amiss in my regret....

New Hampshire has protected itself with all these laws and regulations. And now I feel most of the towns and state are to afraid of the outcome to start reversing things. While none of the towns on Winnipesauakee are as big as Burlington, it is a great example of how a town can turn its water front into a terrific source of income. They have transient docking and moorings. When I lived up there the "harbor Master" fell under the parks and Rec dept. And it was just part of the Directors responsibility. Now grant you Lake Champlain with connections to other water ways is a bit different. However I think many lessons could be learned.....

I met many good people down on the waterfront in Burlington. Many of whom where statying on their boats, and the transient boat slips.... Weather they boated in or trailered in, most of them wanted to spend as little time in the transient slip as possible. Even if the planned to stay in Burlington for multiple days, they would be out on the lake exploring a bulk of the day, returning to use there transient slip only in the evening, this allowing the dock master to put boats in that spot temporariliy all day long.....

People need to stop being scared of what they don't understand.... If you have only and only ever boat on Winnipesaukee, you don't know what you are missing. You also have no idea of how all the issue the New Hampshire and Winnpesaukee residents find them selves afraid of happening, really aren't issues......

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Dave R, thanks for your observations, knowing how much you have traveled round and are intending to travel around, I think you are the expert on what is allowed where and when....

I personally lived in Vermont, on the Champlain Islands for almost 10 years. Many of my colleagues owned boats on the lake, and used to spend the night at various locations, including the Burton Islands.... I was to foolish to not realize what I should have been taking more advantage of. However I rent an apartment on the lake that had direct access to the water.... So I am not to amiss in my regret....

New Hampshire has protected itself with all these laws and regulations. And now I feel most of the towns and state are to afraid of the outcome to start reversing things. While none of the towns on Winnipesauakee are as big as Burlington, it is a great example of how a town can turn its water front into a terrific source of income. They have transient docking and moorings. When I lived up there the "harbor Master" fell under the parks and Rec dept. And it was just part of the Directors responsibility. Now grant you Lake Champlain with connections to other water ways is a bit different. However I think many lessons could be learned.....

I met many good people down on the waterfront in Burlington. Many of whom where statying on their boats, and the transient boat slips.... Weather they boated in or trailered in, most of them wanted to spend as little time in the transient slip as possible. Even if the planned to stay in Burlington for multiple days, they would be out on the lake exploring a bulk of the day, returning to use there transient slip only in the evening, this allowing the dock master to put boats in that spot temporariliy all day long.....

People need to stop being scared of what they don't understand.... If you have only and only ever boat on Winnipesaukee, you don't know what you are missing. You also have no idea of how all the issue the New Hampshire and Winnpesaukee residents find them selves afraid of happening, really aren't issues......

I have spent a few nights and several 1/2 days tied up at Burlington City Marina. Had a great time. The proximity to the bus station makes it a great stop for someone traveling by boat. It is a festive place until about 10 PM and then it is astoundingly quiet for a downtown area. I plan to spend a Summer on Champlain (all over the place, mostly at anchor) in the next 5 years and look forward to returning to all the great ports.

Speaking of Burlington area and a connection to Winnipesaukee, If you ever want to see what the Mount Washington was like in the 1923, go to the Shelburne Museum and take a tour of the Ticonderoga. It's a sister ship to the Mount Washington (formerly called the Chateauguay) that's been restored to the way it was in 1923. The family resemblance is obvious. Take note of the walking beam steam engine and paddle wheels, the Mount used to have those, so cool...

[Descant]

Overnight at public docks on Winnipesaukee used to be encouraged by some towns. They wanted "big cruisers" as tourist attraction for non-boaters. As more people became boat owners, local merchants wanted more turnover at the docks instead of boats that never left. There was also concern about boats "pumping out" at the docks before there were chlorinators and then holding tanks. The answer was time limits on docking and eventually no more overnights at public docks. Similar sequence for overnight anchoring as a means of protecting water quality. Also, as shorefront became developed, people didn't want overnighters in front of their house or on their beach. For awhile more and more boats had holding tanks. Now with the trend to bow riders instead of cuddy cabins, and pontoon boats, heads and holding tanks are probably less common.

Why do we not object to parking meters on the street, but we don't use a similar plan for docks that are only a few yards away?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Thank you, especially for the info on Lake George. I was told one could not anchor overnight there; good to know you can.

We anchored in Red Rock Bay. It's a big but protected area about 20 feet deep. It's also surrounded by state park land on three sides, so there are no (or very few??) homes on the nearby shore. This makes it a popular anchorage. When given the choice, boaters tend to pick anchorages away from homes.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.

Do the lakefront residents (and islanders) drink Lake Champlain's water?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by ApS

Do the lakefront residents (and islanders) drink Lake Champlain's water?

I have no idea but I do know that municipalities release waste water into the lake so I would not recommend it without filtering. That said, even if no one released waste water into the lake, I would still recommend filtering, too risky not to and filters are cheap.