Golden breeder

4 for Boating · 04-01-2020, 07:03 PM

This is a bit off topic but seeing it was about Goldens I could not resist.
So we are on our 4th golden (love the breed)

About a year ago we lost our 3rd to cancer - the first 2 went the same way with not a one getting over 7 years old. (3 dogs / 2 different sources/breeders) Anyway, after we lost our last dog, we investigated what in the hell is going on and if we just had bad luck. What we found is that the published cancer rate here in the US for Goldens is up over a 60% cause of death and the life expectancy is now down to 9 to 10 years in the US where in Europe it is 12-14 years old with a lower 38% cancer rate. To me it is in many of the bloodlines at this point in the US but that's just a personal oppinion as I'm not a doctor/vet.

>> So we purchased our current golden from overseas (not a show dog) - I KNOW it seems crazy but from our track record to go back and buy again here in the US and experience the same results would be insanity - so painful to lose a dog at that age and before his time. (You know how the saying goes... doing the same thing expecting different results)

Something is going on with this breed in the US with cancer - the numbers show that. (In fact they have a very large study going on now to try to figure out why) Does that mean you will get a dog here in the US that gets cancer, who is to say but I can tell you that it is a problem here in the US and it was 3 strikes for us.

Send some pictures when you get your new puppy!

LIforrelaxin · 04-02-2020, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

This is a bit off topic but seeing it was about Goldens I could not resist.
So we are on our 4th golden (love the breed)

About a year ago we lost our 3rd to cancer - the first 2 went the same way with not a one getting over 7 years old. (3 dogs / 2 different sources/breeders) Anyway, after we lost our last dog, we investigated what in the hell is going on and if we just had bad luck. What we found is that the published cancer rate here in the US for Goldens is up over a 60% cause of death and the life expectancy is now down to 9 to 10 years in the US where in Europe it is 12-14 years old with a lower 38% cancer rate. To me it is in many of the bloodlines at this point in the US but that's just a personal oppinion as I'm not a doctor/vet.

>> So we purchased our current golden from overseas (not a show dog) - I KNOW it seems crazy but from our track record to go back and buy again here in the US and experience the same results would be insanity - so painful to lose a dog at that age and before his time. (You know how the saying goes... doing the same thing expecting different results)

Something is going on with this breed in the US with cancer - the numbers show that. (In fact they have a very large study going on now to try to figure out why) Does that mean you will get a dog here in the US that gets cancer, who is to say but I can tell you that it is a problem here in the US and it was 3 strikes for us.

Send some pictures when you get your new puppy!

That is some interesting news on what is probably one of the most popular dog breeds in this country. How much red tape was involved in bring a puppy from overseas into this country?

Having lost one dog very young to seizures, I can sympathize and understand why you would decide to go the route you did... Golden's seem to make great family dogs, I just knew, that our condo wasn't big enough for two goldens.... It is barely big enough for two considerable smaller border collies.....

MeredithMan · 04-02-2020, 08:03 AM

...you bring up a very relevant point, 4-for-Boating. I don't know if there has been a lot of research into it, but Goldens for some reason are susceptible to a number of cancers, seemingly more so than other breeds.

We had our previous Golden for 13 years, and she developed a Hemangiosarcoma on the heart. These are tumors in the blood vessels and apparently seem to show up either in the heart or spleen. There was nothing that could be done other than enjoy every day of the remaining 3 months we had with her.

One of our current Goldens had an ultrasound of her tummy in January because she had eaten something around the house, (she and her brother have eaten tv remotes, eyeglasses, socks, banana bread, you name it...), and we wanted to make sure nothing was stuck, as had happened last summer. Anyway, the scan showed there was a small "mass" on her spleen. We didn't want to fool around, so we had CAVES in Concord take out the whole spleen, and the biopsy was negative, thankfully, but all we could envision was another tumor like our previous Golden had.

Is it due to puppy mills? The flea and tick poisons we rub all over them? Who-knows-what in the dog food we feed them?

LIforrelaxin · 04-02-2020, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

Is it due to puppy mills? The flea and tick poisons we rub all over them? Who-knows-what in the dog food we feed them?

It will be interesting to see what is discovered. My belief is that there will likely be a verity of contributing factors....

I know when I did research on my after my springier died from a seizures I was surprised to find out how common they where in that breed. Although like with cancer in Goldens, know one seem to offer a reason why...

Glad to here your scare last summer turned out positively

4 for Boating · 04-02-2020, 09:01 AM

Getting from overseas, we dealt with a company that helped get all the paperwork together for us so I’m sure that cost us money – how much was hard to say. The dog came over in a big plastic dog crate with all the paperwork and shots – they choose a plane that had environmental storage that is designed for animal transfer. I understand some of the larger planes have this feature. Again, that cost us too. No dog or cat I think can come into the US that is less than 4 months old.

Cancer-wise > here is a link to the big study going on – lots of articles on this. Like you said, what is causing it? I can tell you that we are in a different house now and use different food so things like that I’m not so sure. Plus, if it was those things, one would think it would hit other breeds as well. To me, it somehow found its way into the US bloodlines and now is impossible to get out. Breeders would need to start all over with new dogs from somewhere else. The thing is that the US golden looks and acts in a way that took many, many years to breed. Picking the best of the litter each time to get the stance, color, nose, coat…. The golden we have looks and acts like an everyday golden but is not as tall and the coat is not as fluffy. Let's see if we can get this one to dock dive like the last.

40 years ago, they US golden lived to 15 now 8 to 10.

https://www.thealternativedaily.com/...-cancer-study/

You are very lucky that the spleen was negative as that type is not typically and our last golden was not so lucky with the same thing. The pain to see our golden slow down, get dizzy and look at each other and say here we go again. To the hospital remove the mass / get the bad news / 1 month surgery recovery and have the dog for another 5 months (of happy times) before having to make that decision. Also, I think 13 years for your prior Golden was actually a good life span – above the curve anyway. We would take that in a second.

We are thinking of getting another one (to have 2) – how is that and what is the age gap that you have? Both male or female or mix?

I hope everyone’s golden lives to very old age – such a wonderful dog.
Who cannot smile just looking at that face?

8gv · 04-02-2020, 09:46 AM

CAVES was mentioned.

That's Capital Area Veterinary Emergency and Specialty in Concord.

They saved my Springer's life.

She had a mass on her liver the size of a softball that they removed during a multi hour surgery.

So far she has lived 33 months more than she would have lived without the surgery.

The cost was reasonable.

CAVES...remember that name and I hope you never need it!

LIforrelaxin · 04-02-2020, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

We are thinking of getting another one (to have 2) – how is that and what is the age gap that you have? Both male or female or mix?

I hope everyone’s golden lives to very old age – such a wonderful dog.
Who cannot smile just looking at that face?

With My Boarder Collies both are males, and they are about 18 months apart. Interesting part in my case is that they are genetically brothers, It just so happened the the breeder bread the same to dogs because of the success of the first litter.

Interestingly enough the younger one learned a lot from his older brother. So things like sit and shake came relatively quick. Potty training was another aspect that was greatly reduced as the younger one, followed the example.

With that said they have two different personalities. So we have to pay attention to that, but once you get used to it you don't think much about it.

The best part is that they are like best friends... and actually get a little depressed when we do things with them individually. The keep each other entertained for the most part, so in some respects, we don't have to interact with them quite as much to tire them out.

Although my wife says no, two dogs never again.... I think the likely hood that we will do it again is pretty high...

MeredithMan · 04-02-2020, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

We are thinking of getting another one (to have 2) – how is that and what is the age gap that you have? Both male or female or mix?

I hope everyone’s golden lives to very old age – such a wonderful dog.
Who cannot smile just looking at that face?

We really love having the two goldens, one boy and one girl. The girl is 8 and the boy will be 7 in July. We had the girl for about 3 months before we brought the boy home. For a month or so, she looked at us with disgust..."ah, when is he leaving? You are MY humans.." Within a short time, they became--and still are--inseparable. One never lets the other out of his or her sight and they routinely lay down such that they are in contact with each other. It is also interesting that for the same breed, they have distinct personalities. The girl is like Sandy from "Grease"...sweet, innocent...you can picture her in a poodle skirt, cardigan, and bow in her hair. The boy is like Gronk...big, strong, very good looking, and a party animal. The main consideration for having two is that there will be a lot of fur tumbleweeds floating around, especially in shedding season. Brushing them regularly helps, but they still shed. Golden fur does vacuum up easily, however, as opposed to a short-haired dog's fur which sticks to everything.

Lastly, 8gv is spot on. CAVES is amazing. Cannot say enough good things about that place and Dr. Diamond, their surgeon, is top notch and a great person in general.

8gv · 04-02-2020, 12:50 PM

If you continuously have two dogs, staggered in age by about 1/2 their lifespan, much of the training is done by the elder dog.

It’s a good program.

ishoot308 · 04-02-2020, 01:24 PM

In my opinion one of the biggest reasons for cancer in dogs or cats is VOC’s (Volatile Organic Compounds). Basically the gassing off of materials such as flooring, carpeting, furniture, including dog beds! These are the areas where our pets live their lives.

They lie on that hardwood floor that was made in China and manufactured with Formaldehyde and other nasty finishing and adhesive compounds or that carpeting that has so many carcinogens in the manufacturing process that takes months and months to gas off. Even that nice new dog bed you bought for Rover, the filler material and covering is gassing off for a very long time and is not healthy at all to breath.

It has only recently been addressed in the commercial construction industry as all material supplied must now be low VOC compliant. There is no spec for residential building that I am aware of. Again, in my opinion the true magnitude of this issue is being hidden from the public.

Remember the Lumber Liquidators scandal?? If not google it.

One thing you can do to help your pet is ensure the bed he / she sleeps in is made with organic fillers and wash the covering thoroughly before letting them sleep on it.

Here’s an informative read on flooring. https://easiklip.com/blogs/diy-hardw...tors%20Scandal

Just my rambling thoughts on the issue.

Edited to add my last yellow lab died of cancer....

Dan

winnitru · 04-02-2020, 04:15 PM

Vixen was our 3rd Golden to succumb to cancer. She lived to 2 months shy of 13.
When she was diagnosed I came across this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096726/

It is food for thought.

04-02-2020, 08:03 AM	#3
MeredithMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Bedford, NH; Meredith, NH Posts: 946 Thanks: 262 Thanked 812 Times in 331 Posts	There is an issue with cancer in Goldens... ...you bring up a very relevant point, 4-for-Boating. I don't know if there has been a lot of research into it, but Goldens for some reason are susceptible to a number of cancers, seemingly more so than other breeds. We had our previous Golden for 13 years, and she developed a Hemangiosarcoma on the heart. These are tumors in the blood vessels and apparently seem to show up either in the heart or spleen. There was nothing that could be done other than enjoy every day of the remaining 3 months we had with her. One of our current Goldens had an ultrasound of her tummy in January because she had eaten something around the house, (she and her brother have eaten tv remotes, eyeglasses, socks, banana bread, you name it...), and we wanted to make sure nothing was stuck, as had happened last summer. Anyway, the scan showed there was a small "mass" on her spleen. We didn't want to fool around, so we had CAVES in Concord take out the whole spleen, and the biopsy was negative, thankfully, but all we could envision was another tumor like our previous Golden had. Is it due to puppy mills? The flea and tick poisons we rub all over them? Who-knows-what in the dog food we feed them?

04-02-2020, 01:24 PM	#10
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,232 Thanks: 2,384 Thanked 5,277 Times in 2,051 Posts	Dogs and Cancer In my opinion one of the biggest reasons for cancer in dogs or cats is VOC’s (Volatile Organic Compounds). Basically the gassing off of materials such as flooring, carpeting, furniture, including dog beds! These are the areas where our pets live their lives. They lie on that hardwood floor that was made in China and manufactured with Formaldehyde and other nasty finishing and adhesive compounds or that carpeting that has so many carcinogens in the manufacturing process that takes months and months to gas off. Even that nice new dog bed you bought for Rover, the filler material and covering is gassing off for a very long time and is not healthy at all to breath. It has only recently been addressed in the commercial construction industry as all material supplied must now be low VOC compliant. There is no spec for residential building that I am aware of. Again, in my opinion the true magnitude of this issue is being hidden from the public. Remember the Lumber Liquidators scandal?? If not google it. One thing you can do to help your pet is ensure the bed he / she sleeps in is made with organic fillers and wash the covering thoroughly before letting them sleep on it. Here’s an informative read on flooring. https://easiklip.com/blogs/diy-hardw...tors%20Scandal Just my rambling thoughts on the issue. Edited to add my last yellow lab died of cancer.... Dan __________________ It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! Last edited by ishoot308; 04-02-2020 at 05:03 PM.

04-02-2020, 04:15 PM	#11
winnitru Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SW FL and Wingate Cove Posts: 53 Thanks: 59 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts	Golden Retriever Vixen was our 3rd Golden to succumb to cancer. She lived to 2 months shy of 13. When she was diagnosed I came across this. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096726/ It is food for thought.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-01-2020, 07:03 PM	#1
4 for Boating Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 224 Thanks: 1 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts	This is a bit off topic but seeing it was about Goldens I could not resist. So we are on our 4th golden (love the breed) About a year ago we lost our 3rd to cancer - the first 2 went the same way with not a one getting over 7 years old. (3 dogs / 2 different sources/breeders) Anyway, after we lost our last dog, we investigated what in the hell is going on and if we just had bad luck. What we found is that the published cancer rate here in the US for Goldens is up over a 60% cause of death and the life expectancy is now down to 9 to 10 years in the US where in Europe it is 12-14 years old with a lower 38% cancer rate. To me it is in many of the bloodlines at this point in the US but that's just a personal oppinion as I'm not a doctor/vet. >> So we purchased our current golden from overseas (not a show dog) - I KNOW it seems crazy but from our track record to go back and buy again here in the US and experience the same results would be insanity - so painful to lose a dog at that age and before his time. (You know how the saying goes... doing the same thing expecting different results) Something is going on with this breed in the US with cancer - the numbers show that. (In fact they have a very large study going on now to try to figure out why) Does that mean you will get a dog here in the US that gets cancer, who is to say but I can tell you that it is a problem here in the US and it was 3 strikes for us. Send some pictures when you get your new puppy!

The Following User Says Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
MeredithMan (04-02-2020)

04-02-2020, 09:01 AM	#5
4 for Boating Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 224 Thanks: 1 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts	Getting from overseas, we dealt with a company that helped get all the paperwork together for us so I’m sure that cost us money – how much was hard to say. The dog came over in a big plastic dog crate with all the paperwork and shots – they choose a plane that had environmental storage that is designed for animal transfer. I understand some of the larger planes have this feature. Again, that cost us too. No dog or cat I think can come into the US that is less than 4 months old. Cancer-wise > here is a link to the big study going on – lots of articles on this. Like you said, what is causing it? I can tell you that we are in a different house now and use different food so things like that I’m not so sure. Plus, if it was those things, one would think it would hit other breeds as well. To me, it somehow found its way into the US bloodlines and now is impossible to get out. Breeders would need to start all over with new dogs from somewhere else. The thing is that the US golden looks and acts in a way that took many, many years to breed. Picking the best of the litter each time to get the stance, color, nose, coat…. The golden we have looks and acts like an everyday golden but is not as tall and the coat is not as fluffy. Let's see if we can get this one to dock dive like the last. 40 years ago, they US golden lived to 15 now 8 to 10. https://www.thealternativedaily.com/...-cancer-study/ You are very lucky that the spleen was negative as that type is not typically and our last golden was not so lucky with the same thing. The pain to see our golden slow down, get dizzy and look at each other and say here we go again. To the hospital remove the mass / get the bad news / 1 month surgery recovery and have the dog for another 5 months (of happy times) before having to make that decision. Also, I think 13 years for your prior Golden was actually a good life span – above the curve anyway. We would take that in a second. We are thinking of getting another one (to have 2) – how is that and what is the age gap that you have? Both male or female or mix? I hope everyone’s golden lives to very old age – such a wonderful dog. Who cannot smile just looking at that face?

The Following User Says Thank You to 4 for Boating For This Useful Post:
MeredithMan (04-02-2020)

04-02-2020, 09:46 AM	#6
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,092 Thanks: 64 Thanked 744 Times in 478 Posts	CAVES was mentioned. That's Capital Area Veterinary Emergency and Specialty in Concord. They saved my Springer's life. She had a mass on her liver the size of a softball that they removed during a multi hour surgery. So far she has lived 33 months more than she would have lived without the surgery. The cost was reasonable. CAVES...remember that name and I hope you never need it!

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (04-02-2020), LIforrelaxin (04-02-2020), MeredithMan (04-02-2020)

04-02-2020, 12:50 PM	#9
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,092 Thanks: 64 Thanked 744 Times in 478 Posts	If you continuously have two dogs, staggered in age by about 1/2 their lifespan, much of the training is done by the elder dog. It’s a good program.

The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (04-02-2020)