Where are the statistics...

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

For the "normal", yearly flu? We all got shots for.

The "normal" flu season kills anywhere from 30K to 65K people per year? Historically.

Where are the separate statistics for those cases? I'm thinkin' you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...Actually you can't trust anyone in an election year with a major health issue, or even a minor issue.

Most people will make their decision in November on mailers they get within one week of the vote.

I'm pretty sure we're in the neighborhood of 100K and still climbing quickly on COVID-19 if that's what you're getting at--well beyond the normal flu that some were referencing several weeks ago.

I agree on the statistics being misunderstood and/or manipulated, especially since so many of the deceased were not tested before or after they died. One set of important numbers are the total incremental deaths this year.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ng-deaths.html

[Seaplane Pilot]

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

masks and gloves are just theater except for those who really need them and know how to use them. If there is virus in the air it will be on the outside of your mask and all around and unless someone else takes it off for you it's then on your hands and then you toss the mask on the front seat of the car and touch the key and steering wheel and everything else. Try doing painting or sheetrock with a mask and gloves and then try to get them both off with out getting paint on your fingers or dust everywhere. And that does not even consider using a bandana to supposedly filter microscopic particles.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by jbolty

masks and gloves are just theater except for those who really need them and know how to use them. If there is virus in the air it will be on the outside of your mask and all around and unless someone else takes it off for you it's then on your hands and then you toss the mask on the front seat of the car and touch the key and steering wheel and everything else. Try doing painting or sheetrock with a mask and gloves and then try to get them both off with out getting paint on your fingers or dust everywhere. And that does not even consider using a bandana to supposedly filter microscopic particles.

This is why a mask is only one small part of the solution. One of the others is washing your hands frequently or more importantly, using hand sanitizer after you've been in a situation where you might have been exposed and not touching your face and eyes. It's no different than when you are cooking food that could contain a pathogen such as salmonella. You have to be very careful not to cross-contaminate but it's not too difficult if you take the time to do things in the proper order. People are not wearing masks for the theater of it.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

This is why a mask is only one small part of the solution. One of the others is washing your hands frequently or more importantly, using hand sanitizer after you've been in a situation where you might have been exposed and not touching your face and eyes. It's no different than when you are cooking food that could contain a pathogen such as salmonella. You have to be very careful not to cross-contaminate but it's not too difficult if you take the time to do things in the proper order. People are not wearing masks for the theater of it.

That's good in theory but at least a 1/4 of the people I see with masks have them below their nose and are wearing the same gloves to touch everything in sight plus their phone, keys and face.

the vast majority have no idea of basic science and are oblivious to the point of gloves or masks.

all this in addition to handling cash, touching atm or credit card key pads door handles, etc.

whenever I cut up raw meat I first put hot bleach water in the sink ready to wash my hands, knife and cutting board. Show me 5 people who do the same at home or even think of it. It's no coincidence that studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

having said all that, being cautious is fine but most people are not nearly as safe as they think they are and yet we are still not dropping like flies. I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by jbolty

I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

Have flown twice in 2020. Six airports. All over the place. Not recently though. Was just tested for both antibody and COVID-19. Negative on both.

Originally Posted by jbolty

studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

The study results vary. One stated that the kitchen sponge was the dirtiest. Most refuse to spend a single dollar on a new sponge or even wash the sponge properly.
The other item that sometimes comes in first is the cell phone. One study years ago stated that 21% of all cell phones has human feces on it.

Anyone ever wash their cell phone ???

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Have flown twice in 2020. Six airports. All over the place. Not recently though. Was just tested for both antibody and COVID-19. Negative on both.



The study results vary. One stated that the kitchen sponge was the dirtiest. Most refuse to spend a single dollar on a new sponge or even wash the sponge properly.
The other item that sometimes comes in first is the cell phone. One study years ago stated that 21% of all cell phones has human feces on it.

Anyone ever wash their cell phone ???

yuk. which is the reason I do not allow sponges in my house.

of course reusable grocery bags are vectors for filth as well, because no one ever washes them.

I'm not saying do nothing. what I am saying is the laksidasical way people are using this stuff is little better than nothing but the numbers are still mostly dropping.

I have seen numerous store credit/debit pads with plastic over the keys. What's the point? Everyone is still touching the same plastic. The drive thru clerk at mcdonalds is handling my drink, food bag and everyone's cash with the same gloves on. Spread is un stoppable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQE...ature=emb_logo

[nj2nh]

Originally Posted by jbolty

That's good in theory but at least a 1/4 of the people I see with masks have them below their nose and are wearing the same gloves to touch everything in sight plus their phone, keys and face.

the vast majority have no idea of basic science and are oblivious to the point of gloves or masks.

all this in addition to handling cash, touching atm or credit card key pads door handles, etc.

whenever I cut up raw meat I first put hot bleach water in the sink ready to wash my hands, knife and cutting board. Show me 5 people who do the same at home or even think of it. It's no coincidence that studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle.

having said all that, being cautious is fine but most people are not nearly as safe as they think they are and yet we are still not dropping like flies. I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed.

Well, after cutting meat, everything goes in the dishwasher. I have a separate cutting board for vegetables. I disinfect my fridge handles every day - after breakfast and after dinner. Did that before the virus. I think plenty of people know to do this.


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[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

This is too vague of a question. The real answer is that people wear cloth masks because there are not enough surgical masks to go around. Surgical masks do protect people. Cloth masks are considered better than nothing. Cloth masks do not protect people from getting the virus. Cloth masks offer "some" protection from someone spreading the virus to others. So wearing a mask is simply being a good citizen to your fellow man in case you happen to be one of the many asymptomatic spreaders. So the answer is, that they really don't work even close to 100% of the time but it's better than nothing and that's why businesses..etc needed to close.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Read this statement from someone in Mass today:

“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed?

If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?”

Excellent point.

As I'm sure any seaplane pilot knows, this is moronic. Would you go up with only one safeguard between you and disaster?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

As I'm sure any seaplane pilot knows, this is moronic. Would you go up with only one safeguard between you and disaster?

Moronic? Tell that to the people who’ve lost their businesses and jobs. The masks either work or they don’t.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Moronic? Tell that to the people who’ve lost their businesses and jobs. The masks either work or they don’t.

It is absolutely NOT either /or.

It is like getting a flu shot...it does not guarantee you won’t get the flu but it makes it less likely and if it makes it less likely for you to get the flu, it is less likely you will give it to someone else. Win/Win.

Wearing a mask may, but probably does not, protect YOU from getting Covid. But, the absolute, professional consensus is that wearing a mask does make it less likely to spread it to someone else. As does social distancing. Win/Win.

The decision apparently has been made that it is more important to open the economy than to protect the most vulnerable who are either sick or old. Even though I am old, this could be a defensible position.

But it is only morally defensible IF everybody wears a mask and practices social distancing. This is how you open the economy and best protect the most vulnerable.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

It is absolutely NOT either /or.

It is like getting a flu shot...it does not guarantee you won’t get the flu but it makes it less likely and if it makes it less likely for you to get the flu, it is less likely you will give it to someone else. Win/Win.

Wearing a mask may, but probably does not, protect YOU from getting Covid. But, the absolute, professional consensus is that wearing a mask does make it less likely to spread it to someone else. As does social distancing. Win/Win.

The decision apparently has been made that it is more important to open the economy than to protect the most vulnerable who are either sick or old. Even though I am old, this could be a defensible position.

But it is only morally defensible IF everybody wears a mask and practices social distancing. This is how you open the economy and best protect the most vulnerable.

Great, everyone wear a mask and let’s get opened up and moving. Georgia and Florida are well on the way. But forcing people to wear masks, yet still restricting businesses is counterproductive, in my opinion.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Great, everyone wear a mask and let’s get opened up and moving. Georgia and Florida are well on the way. But forcing people to wear masks, yet still restricting businesses is counterproductive, in my opinion.

It isn’t a question of “forcing” people to wear masks. While I do not agree, there are always a small number of people in a free society who, on principle, have always lived their lives in a certain way and having core beliefs, either religious or not, is not something to be mocked.

BUT, judging by the large numbers of people who do not wear masks, most of these do not truly understand why they should wear one, or they believe they look stupid in them, or it is inconvenient. All kinds of excuses not to wear them. Or, it is because of the present contentious political climate ( not a lifelong matter of principle). There is almost no valid excuse for our elected officials to decline to wear them. Excepting those with long-standing contrarian principles.

[Lakegeezer]

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms, because this virus has that nasty catch to it. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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I can understand what you are saying; I just don’t think it is logical. It is a reason not to wear a mask that I never considered.

If so, there are a lot of people in the area who are sick or believe they are who are out shopping at Heaths.

I don’t always agree with what you write but it usually makes sense to me.

If this is the only reason you don’t wear one, perhaps reevaluate it.

[nj2nh]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

When I see many individuals wearing a mask I believe they are sick or believe they are and avoid the area.


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Why? Is it not a requirement in NH? It is down here in NJ. In fact, those not wearing masks are the ones getting the evil eye.


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[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

Why? Is it not a requirement in NH? It is down here in NJ. In fact, those not wearing masks are the ones getting the evil eye.


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I think it is only under certain circumstances and of course, private businesses can require a mask be worn. But for the sake of the local economy and getting things back to normal as quickly as possible, I wish everyone would just wear one when they are not able to socially distance.

https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/...pandemic-in-nh

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".

I agree. It’s people who are refusing to do little things like wear a mask who are prolonging this.

Of course the people that are wearing masks are not all sick. They are doing it to protect others.