Farm Island decision upheld

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by pricestavern

randy - you are completely misconstruing the numbers. There are 300 kids in the camp (ie the property). Again, the number of kids likely to be at the air rifle range is about 12-20 max. Your calculation of 'even 75%' is misleading. The number is 10-20 kids, with the likelihood that it will be at the lower range based on previous use at the existing rifle range.

Additionally, the existing rifle range is not open all day long. There are set times when a camper can be there.

no and wrong.

i asked and re-asked. Seth kassels said it twice and i was shocked. He said “as many as 300” might be there and 8 am till 10 pm as this is a big attraction and very big part of the camp. My initial concern was with pot smoking councilors and guns. He flatly refused drug testing. We smell the pot. I went to college and it was on the unh campus but not around guns or people resosible for young children

[lakewinnie]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

no and wrong.

i asked and re-asked. Seth kassels said it twice and i was shocked. He said “as many as 300” might be there and 8 am till 10 pm as this is a big attraction and very big part of the camp. My initial concern was with pot smoking councilors and guns. He flatly refused drug testing. We smell the pot. I went to college and it was on the unh campus but not around guns or people resosible for young children

Yeah, after painfully reading this thread, I could use some pot right about now

[Blue Thunder]

It’s probably time for this thread to be padlocked.....

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

It’s probably time for this thread to be padlocked.....

it is complicated and painful for us too. sorry please see attached

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

Yeah, after painfully reading this thread, I could use some pot right about now

it is complicated. i apologize, yet all true

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

no and wrong.

i asked and re-asked. Seth kassels said it twice and i was shocked. He said “as many as 300” might be there and 8 am till 10 pm as this is a big attraction and very big part of the camp. My initial concern was with pot smoking councilors and guns. He flatly refused drug testing. We smell the pot. I went to college and it was on the unh campus but not around guns or people resosible for young children

First off they are not going to be shooting guns at 10pm....And they certainly are not going to have 300 there at once. 300 campers on the entire property yes, but not all at the range. Total drama Randy....And as far as the counselors smoking pot, who doesn't these days (well actually I don't so exclude me from that statement)? Was the camp even in session this past year? I doubt it. Lawrence and Nokomis were not.

Like Maxum above, I have been an islander for many years and live in close proximity to 2 camps. I can see the Camp Lawrence dock from my front door. For years I was on Mark, across from their beach. I could hear their rifle range daily, and honestly hardly ever even thought about it. Hearing that they are converting to air rifles makes it even less of a nuisance. I can guarantee that although Lawrence probably has a larger census, there was never 300 kids at the range. The campers are broken up into groups and circulating through different activities all day long.

Not sure what you hope to gain by pleading your case here. Nobody has any say or control over this. I see 3 options available to you:

1.Lawyer up, spend the money and fight them if you believe that you have been wronged.
2. Find a way to coexist and stop the drama.
3. Sell and move on.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure what you hope to gain by pleading your case here. Nobody has any say or control over this. I see 3 options available to you:

1.Lawyer up, spend the money and fight them if you believe that you have been wronged.
2. Find a way to coexist and stop the drama.
3. Sell and move on.

And thats the bottom line!

Very well stated Codeman.

Time to park the drama, nothing to be gained by it.

Good Luck to all who are actually involved, I hope you can find a reasonable solution/settlement to all this.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

First off they are not going to be shooting guns at 10pm....And they certainly are not going to have 300 there at once. 300 campers on the entire property yes, but not all at the range. Total drama Randy....And as far as the counselors smoking pot, who doesn't these days (well actually I don't so exclude me from that statement)? Was the camp even in session this past year? I doubt it. Lawrence and Nokomis were not.

Like Maxum above, I have been an islander for many years and live in close proximity to 2 camps. I can see the Camp Lawrence dock from my front door. For years I was on Mark, across from their beach. I could hear their rifle range daily, and honestly hardly ever even thought about it. Hearing that they are converting to air rifles makes it even less of a nuisance. I can guarantee that although Lawrence probably has a larger census, there was never 300 kids at the range. The campers are broken up into groups and circulating through different activities all day long.

Not sure what you hope to gain by pleading your case here. Nobody has any say or control over this. I see 3 options available to you:

1.Lawyer up, spend the money and fight them if you believe that you have been wronged.
2. Find a way to coexist and stop the drama.
3. Sell and move on.

the examples you offer are grandfathered. i respect all that was as it was. this new proposal moves the range 600 feet from many homes where is was not. the camp own hundreds of acres and they have many options to avoid this nuisance/burden on these homes. facts are we are lawyered up. we have a superior court judge that agrees and she issues orders and the camp ignores the orders and the court.

while you offer some reasonable assumptions please answer this. is the firing range you hear 600 feet from you? and if it is not how would you feel if the camps you are surrounded by identified the own firing range as a "nuisance" to them and that they are moving it tens of thousands of feet from their sleeping quarters and their programing area to 600 feet from you?

i only ask you fully understand while you comment. please and thank you

and remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

the examples you offer are grandfathered. i respect all that was as it was. this new proposal moves the range 600 feet from many homes where is was not. the camp own hundreds of acres and they have many options to avoid this nuisance/burden on these homes. facts are we are lawyered up. we have a superior court judge that agrees and she issues orders and the camp ignores the orders and the court.

while you offer some reasonable assumptions please answer this. is the firing range you hear 600 feet from you? and if it is not how would you feel if the camps you are surrounded by identified the own firing range as a "nuisance" to them and that they are moving it tens of thousands of feet from their sleeping quarters and their programing area to 600 feet from you?

i only ask you fully understand while you comment. please and thank you

and remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

please see attached

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

the examples you offer are grandfathered. i respect all that was as it was. this new proposal moves the range 600 feet from many homes where is was not. the camp own hundreds of acres and they have many options to avoid this nuisance/burden on these homes. facts are we are lawyered up. we have a superior court judge that agrees and she issues orders and the camp ignores the orders and the court.

while you offer some reasonable assumptions please answer this. is the firing range you hear 600 feet from you? and if it is not how would you feel if the camps you are surrounded by identified the own firing range as a "nuisance" to them and that they are moving it tens of thousands of feet from their sleeping quarters and their programing area to 600 feet from you?

i only ask you fully understand while you comment. please and thank you

and remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

Sleeping quarters? Do you expect them to be shooting in the dark? During sleeping hours?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

the examples you offer are grandfathered. i respect all that was as it was. this new proposal moves the range 600 feet from many homes where is was not. the camp own hundreds of acres and they have many options to avoid this nuisance/burden on these homes. facts are we are lawyered up. we have a superior court judge that agrees and she issues orders and the camp ignores the orders and the court.

while you offer some reasonable assumptions please answer this. is the firing range you hear 600 feet from you? and if it is not how would you feel if the camps you are surrounded by identified the own firing range as a "nuisance" to them and that they are moving it tens of thousands of feet from their sleeping quarters and their programing area to 600 feet from you?

i only ask you fully understand while you comment. please and thank you

and remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

Well I think you have resolved the public matter you placed on the forum, by stating you have chosen option #1.

Not sure there is much more to share or discuss with the members here until something else happens.

That said, if the rifle range is one of the primary concerns, I think its you who should stop and understand what you are saying and doing.

If you bought this property knowing there was a pre-existing usage of a kids camp with a .22 rifle range on this small island, and the camp owners have announced that they will be transiting from the .22 rifles to air rifles but will moving the range to a new location that will be approximately 600 feet from your property, that would seem to me to be a MAJOR plus for you. There is no where on an island that small that the .22's would not make much more noise than the airguns will make at 600 feet from your property. This to your advantage!

You should seriously consider saving "your kids money" and take that huge win and be tremendously thankful they dont just say never mind we will just keep the .22 range where it is and shoot all day all summer.

I would be shocked to find any reasonable person would be bothered by a small air rifle range at a distance of 600 feet. You would have to be wearing bionic hearing aids to have this exceed the background noise of any given Saturday on Winnipesaukee. Remember this is not some isolated environment where you can get away from the sounds of people, boats and human generated noise.

You might want to go and listen to an air rifle at 600 feet in a place that has any normal background noise, and do some soul searching if this is worth all you seem to be putting yourself through and all the money the lawyers are making off you the town and the camp. Seems to me that everyone is losing in this battle based on what you have posted here.

I was recently in a gun shop where one of the sales reps was showing off a full auto CO2 air gun to a customer and he let off a burst of 30 rounds into a commercial air gun trap. I was standing 4 feet from him with my back turned to him and yes I was startled, but only because I didnt expect it. If I was 20 feet from him and outside I doubt I would have even flinched or have taken much noticed. There is no way you could hear a dozen full auto air guns shooting all at the same time if my 3.5 HP push lawn mower were between you and them. Air guns just dont generate that much noise, and certainly nothing even closely comparable to .22 rifles if they are using common high velocity ammo.

Also consider that if you had neighbors move next to you and their lot line put them much closer than 600 feet, and they had half a dozen kids that wanted to shoot air rifles with their friends in the back yard all day all summer, I doubt you could do much about that. In most rural communities usage of air guns is rarely prohibited.

You should really take a breath and be honest and make sure this is why you are concerned about the camp. It just cant possibly be worth all that is going on.

This assumes the bulk of your concerns have been communicated here. Other matters not disclosed may result in a different set of observations,,,

ATB

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well I think you have resolved the public matter you placed on the forum, by stating you have chosen option #1.

Not sure there is much more to share or discuss with the members here until something else happens.

That said, if the rifle range is one of the primary concerns, I think its you who should stop and understand what you are saying and doing.

If you bought this property knowing there was a pre-existing usage of a kids camp with a .22 rifle range on this small island, and the camp owners have announced that they will be transiting from the .22 rifles to air rifles but will moving the range to a new location that will be approximately 600 feet from your property, that would seem to me to be a MAJOR plus for you. There is no where on an island that small that the .22's would not make much more noise than the airguns will make at 600 feet from your property. This to your advantage!

You should seriously consider saving "your kids money" and take that huge win and be tremendously thankful they dont just say never mind we will just keep the .22 range where it is and shoot all day all summer.

I would be shocked to find any reasonable person would be bothered by a small air rifle range at a distance of 600 feet. You would have to be wearing bionic hearing aids to have this exceed the background noise of any given Saturday on Winnipesaukee. Remember this is not some isolated environment where you can get away from the sounds of people, boats and human generated noise.

You might want to go and listen to an air rifle at 600 feet in a place that has any normal background noise, and do some soul searching if this is worth all you seem to be putting yourself through and all the money the lawyers are making off you the town and the camp. Seems to me that everyone is losing in this battle based on what you have posted here.

I was recently in a gun shop where one of the sales reps was showing off a full auto CO2 air gun to a customer and he let off a burst of 30 rounds into a commercial air gun trap. I was standing 4 feet from him with my back turned to him and yes I was startled, but only because I didnt expect it. If I was 20 feet from him and outside I doubt I would have even flinched or have taken much noticed. There is no way you could hear a dozen full auto air guns shooting all at the same time if my 3.5 HP push lawn mower were between you and them. Air guns just dont generate that much noise, and certainly nothing even closely comparable to .22 rifles if they are using common high velocity ammo.

Also consider that if you had neighbors move next to you and their lot line put them much closer than 600 feet, and they had half a dozen kids that wanted to shoot air rifles with their friends in the back yard all day all summer, I doubt you could do much about that. In most rural communities usage of air guns is rarely prohibited.

You should really take a breath and be honest and make sure this is why you are concerned about the camp. It just cant possibly be worth all that is going on.

This assumes the bulk of your concerns have been communicated here. Other matters not disclosed may result in a different set of observations,,,

ATB

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

you're are correct. this is on the mainland. my greater quest is because of the excessive harm seth kassels cause my family and my alliance and concern for my good friend don. however, i and the entire bay will absolutely hear this. the pollution done by camp belknap too remains paramount.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

you're are correct. this is on the mainland. my greater quest is because of the excessive harm seth kassels cause my family and my alliance and concern for my good friend don. however, i and the entire bay will absolutely hear this. the pollution done by camp belknap too remains paramount.

Ok, now I am done, this is just way too misleading and convoluted.

Through countless posts we have been told about the impact of one property on an island by neighbors also on the island, but now it turns out that some of the concerns have nothing to do with the property on the island at all.

This is way to crazy dysfunctional for me.

God help me for ever thinking I might want to retire to NH, if this is any example of what I would encounter you couldnt give me waterfront property if I had to deal with all this.

I think Winnipesaukee is becoming a Florida trailer park. This all reads like a bad TV episode,,,

No more reading of this thread for me, you can call me thin-skinned but I see enough drama at the deli counter to suit my needs.

ATB to all parties and anyone who has the stamina to keep reading through this mess.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Ok, now I am done, this is just way too misleading and convoluted.

Through countless posts we have been told about the impact of one property on an island by neighbors also on the island, but now it turns out that some of the concerns have nothing to do with the property on the island at all.

This is way to crazy dysfunctional for me.

God help me for ever thinking I might want to retire to NH, if this is any example of what I would encounter you couldnt give me waterfront property if I had to deal with all this.

I think Winnipesaukee is becoming a Florida trailer park. This all reads like a bad TV episode,,,

No more reading of this thread for me, you can call me thin-skinned but I see enough drama at the deli counter to suit my needs.

ATB to all parties and anyone who has the stamina to keep reading through this mess.

thank you for your input and insight. frankly it has been very helpful. i put a deposit on farm island and two and one half years later i finally closed. all held up with these type of shenanigans. there is no fabrication only truths and of course my passion. i too am moving up to tuftonboro to retire and this was my welcome

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I believe the rifle range is located on the mainland and not on the island. Having read through the thread it sounds like this is one of those situations where reason and dialogue will never prevail, and instead animosity and ill-will will emerge victorious.

Seriously,,,

Now I'm totally confused,,,

This gets more confusing by the post.