Seaplane Base and runway 19 Mile Bay Proposed

[MAXUM]

With all the hell raised over the noise generated from Camp Belknap I can only imagine how mental the nearby residents will get with the sound of planes landing and taking off.

Might help Mr. Owen's chickens lay eggs though

[BrownstoneNorth]

I don't know what to make of it. From the few things I found online, couldn't tell whether Epic is doing scenic tours with its own plane(s) or the airport is intended for use of private planes.

Owner is Thomas Wood

Phone is 603-724-9104


https://www.nhcompanyregistry.com/co...ne-adventures/

https://www.nhcompanyregistry.com/co...england-llc-2/

https://airnav.com/airport/NH64

Their Instagram has a few photos of planes, no explanation or any narrative:
ID:: epic_seaplane_adventures

[chachee52]

I guess i'll be the guy that throws the concerns back at the forum.
Boat traffic: There isn't any at the Alton runway? During the summer it is always full of boats, I have actually seen 1 plane in the many years that I have been on the lake land in Alton Bay in the summer.
Bob Houses: Have you seen Alton during a cold winter? It's packed with fisherman and houses (and campers). They just mark the runway and hope that people don't fish on it.
As for the gas and such, not sure why they would need/want gas there. Alton, and Paugus Bay Water runway doesn't have gas (that I know of). So it would be interesting to see what comes of that aspect.
Just something to think about though.

[Just Wonderin]

Originally Posted by chachee52

I guess i'll be the guy that throws the concerns back at the forum.
Boat traffic: There isn't any at the Alton runway? During the summer it is always full of boats, I have actually seen 1 plane in the many years that I have been on the lake land in Alton Bay in the summer.
Bob Houses: Have you seen Alton during a cold winter? It's packed with fisherman and houses (and campers). They just mark the runway and hope that people don't fish on it.
As for the gas and such, not sure why they would need/want gas there. Alton, and Paugus Bay Water runway doesn't have gas (that I know of). So it would be interesting to see what comes of that aspect.
Just something to think about though.

The width of Alton Bay is much greater than Nineteen Mile Bay. I can't see the town ever approving the use of Union Wharf. That being said, planes will now need to use one of the gas dock slips at the store. In order for that to be permitted, an L shaped extension needs to be added to the current slip at the gas dock. It will have to be installed along the shoreline, parallel to Route 109. I don't think any plane landing in Alton Bay comes that close to docked boats or a county road.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Just Wonderin

The width of Alton Bay is much greater than Nineteen Mile Bay. I can't see the town ever approving the use of Union Wharf. That being said, planes will now need to use one of the gas dock slips at the store. In order for that to be permitted, an L shaped extension needs to be added to the current slip at the gas dock. It will have to be installed along the shoreline, parallel to Route 109. I don't think any plane landing in Alton Bay comes that close to docked boats or a county road.

This is exactly why this proposal needs to be disclosed to the public, in detail, and addressed at a public hearing. Instead, the proponents tried to get the town to approve an entirely ambiguous proposal without any input from town residents that are directly impacted, and without having an actual plan in place that could be properly considered by the town and its residents. By acknowledging that this needs to go to a public hearing, the board of selectmen appears to understand that this will be a significant issue to not only the town residents that own docks at Pier 19, but all residents that own property around or that use Pier 19.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by Just Wonderin

The width of Alton Bay is much greater than Nineteen Mile Bay. I don't think any plane landing in Alton Bay comes that close to docked boats or a county road.

I'll agree to disagree on that one. The area around the Gazebo is pretty narrow and has a ton of traffic right next to houses. And yes, I have been there in the summer when a sea plane lands there.
Like I said, the issue I see is the docking, and I did state I know nothing about that part over there.
But the issue with the noise and such I just don't see an issue. There's bigger issues around to worry about than a few seconds of a take off.

[DEJ]

I don't have a problem with the proposed business, the problem I have is the store owner is trying to get the town to modify a town wharf which is owned by the residents of Tuftonboro to accommodate her business without any input from the towns taxpayers. It appears the selectmen to their credit recognize that so we will see what happens going forward.

The store owner has the option of going through the permit process with the state to put an extension on her dock that she owns. This IMO makes much more sense but will obviously take some time and considerable cost to her. Not sure what the condo dock association members think of that idea, time will tell.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I don't have a problem with the proposed business, the problem I have is the store owner is trying to get the town to modify a town wharf which is owned by the residents of Tuftonboro to accommodate her business without any input from the towns taxpayers. It appears the selectmen to their credit recognize that so we will see what happens going forward.

The store owner has the option of going through the permit process with the state to put an extension on her dock that she owns. This IMO makes much more sense but will obviously take some time and considerable cost to her. Not sure what the condo dock association members think of that idea, time will tell.

Exactly. The whole thing has this whiff of the proponents asserting it's not really going to make a difference to anybody, when, obviously, airplanes landing while make a significant difference to many

[Seaplane Pilot]

I can imagine the same type of uproar occurred when the Weirs Seaplane Base was established many decades ago. And as far as I know, public docks are leased to private enterprises in several towns around the lake, so it’s not unprecedented.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I can imagine the same type of uproar occurred when the Weirs Seaplane Base was established many decades ago. And as far as I know, public docks are leased to private enterprises in several towns around the lake, so it’s not unprecedented.

You are entitled to your opinion, so are those opposed to this. I am only opposed to the use of Union Wharf for this business. As far as I know the store owner or the scenic airplane tours business, epic seaplane adventures has not asked the town to lease space at Union Wharf. From the video I watched of the selectmen's work session on 4/26/2021 where the owner and yourself asked the town to modify the wharf there was never a mention of leasing space for this private enterprise. Perhaps you have info to the contrary.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by DEJ

You are entitled to your opinion, so are those opposed to this. I am only opposed to the use of Union Wharf for this business. As far as I know the store owner or the scenic airplane tours business, epic seaplane adventures has not asked the town to lease space at Union Wharf. From the video I watched of the selectmen's work session on 4/26/2021 where the owner and yourself asked the town to modify the wharf there was never a mention of leasing space for this private enterprise. Perhaps you have info to the contrary.

I have no dog in this fight, but simply stated a fact that public docks are leased out to private businesses. I agree that everything should be above board. I have nothing to do with this business.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I have no dog in this fight, but simply stated a fact that public docks are leased out to private businesses. I agree that everything should be above board. I have nothing to do with this business.

I agree with what you said about public dock leasing, no question, just do not think it is a good idea for this particular wharf.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

With all the hell raised over the noise generated from Camp Belknap I can only imagine how mental the nearby residents will get with the sound of planes landing and taking off.

Might help Mr. Owen's chickens lay eggs though

Here on Winnisquam I listen to planes each Sunday morning practicing touching down and taking off. Actually we enjoy watching them

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

With all the hell raised over the noise generated from Camp Belknap I can only imagine how mental the nearby residents will get with the sound of planes landing and taking off.

Might help Mr. Owen's chickens lay eggs though

i have roosters. if you can get them to lay eggs i don't care what you fly! teee hee

[knowit]

I just read on FB that the demo was moved to 7-16-21 at 9AM.

[chaseisland]

Don't believe everything you read on FB.

[knowit]

Rescheduled again to July 23 9 AM due to island clean up day.

[chaseisland]

What, too much boat traffic?

[Sundancer320]

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

What were you using for a meter to obtain these readings? What Weighting scale?

A cell phone app is the next best thing to worthless. A professional meter that is calibrated on site with a calibrator, just prior to taking the readings, is the only accurate way to take a meaningful measurement. In my work, I take acoustic sound level measurements on a regular basis to evaluate the effect of professional sound systems in residential neighborhoods. Neighbors seem to all have $20.00 amazon meters or cell phone apps which vary widely and can easily be manipulated to read what suits ones purpose either high or low.

I"m not trying to give you a hard time but simply to bring up the fact that an arbitrary reading has little meaning.

[chaseisland]

Today's test was a waste of time. No boats in the bay during the landing. Ambient weekend conditions demands numerous boats in the bay area creating numerous wakes at various angles to each other and several Captain boneheads thrown within the mix.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

This is good data! Thank you for posting!

[Sundancer320]

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

From facebook a short time ago, name withheld by me, "as a neighbor on Mirror Lake I can verify that the noise generated during take-off and landing would wake the dead. It’s loud!"

[knowit]

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by knowit

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

Please don't confuse confidence with arrogance. Attempting to accomplish something of worth or value is done by confident people. Attempting to prevent or inhibit is done by arrogant people. You may have enjoyed asking the question, you just did not enjoy listening. Again, im confident that if you call me up and have a conversation that you would still be unhappy with the answers. No changing people's minds that just want "plane be gone". Have a great day. And besides, it wasn't an impromptu question session, it was specifically a Seaplane demonstration for the town selectman to consider having the dock posts lowered. I think the few agitators there heard the Chairman say that loud and clear.

[CowTimes]

Characterizing all those opposed to your attempt to run a seaplane business from town property as “agitators” is the definition of arrogance. There are lots of legitimate reasons why this is a horrible idea for 19 mile bay, including safety, noise, zoning, improper use of public property, among many others. You are living in your own universe—indeed, you are the only one that is affirmatively advocating for your proposal, which is unsurprising since it is a thinly veiled attempt for you to run a business from town property without addressing zoning, licensing, or substantial liability issues for the town. This is not about just lowering dock posts. The only reason you want to lower dock posts and went to get runway approval was because you need that to run paying customers from Union Wharf. The board of selectmen clearly understands what is going on here. They have repeatedly said—including at this year’s Islander’s Association meeting—that this “proposal” is going nowhere anytime soon, and there will be public hearings before anything like this is even considered, and all that will not happen until after Union Wharf is rebuilt in a year a two. Good luck pushing your own personal, pecuniary agenda at public hearings where you characterize everyone with legitimate opposition as agitators that should just be dismissed out of hand. The board of selectmen see the overwhelming opposition from their constituents and have no reason to defy the clear will of the community for you.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

I am not the one who posted the decibel levels. Now you are trying to unwind your post...

[LIforrelaxin]

So all this discussion about noise... Makes me think about the boat noise debate.... some fun information on this subject...

1. When sound is at 85 decibels for a duration of a work shift (8 hours) OHSA requires hearing protection
2. how loud is your average construction site -- around 100 decibels
3. how load is a conversation between two individuals sitting at a table --- around 60 decibels...

With this said, those who argue over noise pollution, as a reason not to allow a personal sea plane to go in and out of the town dock... better not be yelling, or having any work done....

Over all people tend to be too worked up over this.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

[John Mercier]

Stationary dB testing with calibrated equipment set to an A-Weighting at 20 inches from the exhaust really isn't comparable to a moving object at unknown distance.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

Nobody is trying to infringe upon Epic's rights--he is free to fly his plane. He has asked for things, such as dock modifications, that the town may grant. But he does not have a right to those things.

All people have a right to express their opinion. Epic has criticized people vehemently for exercising those rights.

So I think you have the rights thing backwards.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?

Same issue--just different people involved. 20 Mile Bay is a public beach. Giving away a public beach to a business is no different than giving away dock space.

[Seaplane Pilot]

New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tail...ts-boston-nyc/