Seaplane Base and runway 19 Mile Bay Proposed

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by knowit

She has a lot of money and obviously can afford to keep injecting capitol into a business that does not make any money. When she runs out of money and closes her doors in a year or so we can only hope Skelly's buys it at fire sale pricing and opens up there. Now that would be Epic!!!

Now there are accusations that the store is funding me. The conversation on Facebook is much more civil. Feel free to join us.

It's funny what people will say when they hide behind a screen name.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

Way to turn my words! You are quite the slickster Epic. We know she’s not funding you.
But it is even funnier what some people feel they are entitled to just because she sunk all her money into a business that can never make a ROI.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Now there are accusations that the store is funding me. The conversation on Facebook is much more civil. Feel free to join us.

It's funny what people will say when they hide behind a screen name.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Nobody has ever said that. She is trying to use you however... and you, going for the ride thinking you might make a few bucks...

[TheTimeTraveler]

No matter who or whom says what; This is not a Non Profit proposal. Neither is it a Charity proposal.

This is purely a "FOR PROFIT" plan, plain and simple.

Now the question is who benefits by this? The Store Owner (will they be selling plane ride tickets)? The Airplane Operator? Well, you can be sure he won't be flying the plane at no charge.....

Should the public have a say in who gets what? Some say yes; others will say it's none of our business. It will be interesting to watch this debate play out.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

Way to garner support!

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So you’re threatening people now? With what? Arrest for asking you questions on a public forum? This is a puzzling comment and I have to assume you have been enjoying some adult beverages. This entire thread has been civil and has shown many citizens concerns with this proposal.

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Add me to the list of agitators. And I have reported you to the appropriate authority - the webmaster. Here’s hoping he’ll provide the requisite “enforcement”. No one wants to read crap like this from epic jerks like you. Go pee in someone else’s pool….

[Force5]

I thought exactly the same thing! Adult beverages or something else. Absurd to say the least. He is getting crazier and crazier

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Really, you want me to post all the threats and emails between yourselves? I'm not going to do that ... I'll let the authorities handle it.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

I don’t recall ever reading a post that you were threatened. If you are getting personal threats to your email, that is just wrong and I for one do not condone that type of behavior.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by knowit

I don’t recall ever reading a post that you were threatened. If you are getting personal threats to your email, that is just wrong and I for one do not condone that type of behavior.

Ok, thanks. Just make sure you didn't put your name on the "list" and you're all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[MAXUM]

If the FAA receives information from another source that a pilot may have a mental health issue, the FAA's Office of Aerospace Medicine can direct the pilot to provide specific documentation and/or a psychiatric and psychological evaluation from a mental health care professional in order to make a determination about the pilot's suitability for certification.

I believe this thread is exhibit A.

Good luck with putting me on your "list" I am in the witness protection program.

[knowit]

List of what? You need to be more specific. Call out the offenders. Lump everyone together is not fair.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Really, you want me to post all the threats and emails between yourselves? I'm not going to do that ... I'll let the authorities handle it.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

If you’re getting threats from some other forum then this place is the wrong avenue. If you are getting threats in the form of a PM here then you handle it by going to the moderators and or LE... by painting a broad brush here with no proof or names, I take it as harassment from you and believe the moderators should delete these posts. What exactly is this list you talk of? If it’s a list of citizens who are organizing a lawful petition against you’re proposal then you are seriously the one who should be careful. Threats and intimidation should not be taken lightly. Be assured the selectman, you know, the ones who decide... may be reading these comments.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If the FAA receives information from another source that a pilot may have a mental health issue, the FAA's Office of Aerospace Medicine can direct the pilot to provide specific documentation and/or a psychiatric and psychological evaluation from a mental health care professional in order to make a determination about the pilot's suitability for certification.

I believe this thread is exhibit A.

Good luck with putting me on your "list" I am in the witness protection program.

That's brilliant! I swear, you people never expect people to fight back. You just expect that if you make enough noise that good people will just give up. Good luck with that...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

That's brilliant! I swear, you people never expect people to fight back. You just expect that if you make enough noise that good people will just give up. Good luck with that...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Lighten up! And yes what I wrote is brilliantly sarcastic!

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Lighten up! And yes what I wrote is brilliantly sarcastic!

Now he says lighten up! Right! I'm the one that's uptight, yep you got it. Nailed it!

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[winni83]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Just the kind of calm level headed person I’d want as a pilot!!

My lawyer and I hope that I am on your “enemies list”. Do the terms malicious prosecution and abuse of process ring a bell?

[Force5]

Quick someone with a printer, please print this out before evidence is taken down. Great evidence for the selectmen, showing Epic making threats.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Force5

Quick someone with a printer, please print this out before evidence is taken down. Great evidence for the selectmen, showing Epic making threats.

Exactly what threat am I making? Please articulate the threat?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by winni83

Just the kind of calm level headed person I’d want as a pilot!!

My lawyer and I hope that I am on your “enemies list”. Do the terms malicious prosecution and abuse of process ring a bell?

So you are saying you want a pilot who shrivels up and runs away when adversity hits? Got it. You should stick to not flying.

The list is not my list, it's your list, and you all have voluntarily add your names to it.

It has nothing to do with me at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Sundancer320]

Somebody need to take his shovel away from him.

[winni83]

"The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved“

Sounds like your list to me. But of course it has nothing to do with you at all..

Let him keep his shovel. It is very helpful.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by winni83

‘’ The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved“

Sounds like your list to me. But of course it has nothing to do with you at all..

Let him keep his shovel. It is very helpful.

If you're in the dark and don't have a clue then chances are your all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

So Epic, since you say you want to be as transparent and open about your intentions, why is it you have made no reference to your demonstration that you are doing with the Tuftonboro selectmen on Monday? That would be a great time to address some people’s concerns wouldn’t it?

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Ok, thanks. Just make sure you didn't put your name on the "list" and you're all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So a list of folks that organized to oppose your unlawful use of the wharf for commercial use is somehow evidence of a crime that needs to be reported to authorities? Got it. I’m sure those unnamed “authorities” were so overwhelmed with your evidence of crimes that they actually wanted you to start conducting citizens arrests of folks that—gasp—are exercising their constitutional right to organize and express their opposition?

I’m also very confused. For days you have been berating people to give you their names, and now you have names of many that are opposed to your plan, and the first thing you do is call the “authorities”?

Oh my, I’m so glad my name wasn’t on that list. Or was it?

[The Real BigGuy]

If I’m on your “list” I’m damned proud of it!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[winni83]

If you are on Facebook, search for “T R Wood SDNELLC” and also that name in the Seaplane Pilots' Association FB page. I surmise that SDNELLC refers to Self Defense of New England, LLC, a company formed by Thomas Wood with an address on Mirror Lake.

Will the karate kid do a demonstration of his non piloting skills?

[Sundancer320]

So, it’s a plane washing and waxing demonstration....Wax on, Wax off...sounds fun.

[knowit]

Interesting that he has not told us about this demonstration on any of the media forums. I think that anyone that can be there, should be present for that.
Could be very informational.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

So you are saying you want a pilot who shrivels up and runs away when adversity hits? Got it. You should stick to not flying.

The list is not my list, it's your list, and you all have voluntarily add your names to it.

It has nothing to do with me at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

“You all have voluntarily”. You need to retract this comment.

[ITD]

What a fricken dumpster fire this thread is, you all need to shut your computers off and enjoy the good weather that is coming.

I think this thread needs a time out.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ITD

What a fricken dumpster fire this thread is, you all need to shut your computers off and enjoy the good weather that is coming.

I think this thread needs a time out.

I whole heatedly agree..... I hate to see threads get locked, but well we may be at that point...

[Descant]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I whole heatedly agree..... I hate to see threads get locked, but well we may be at that point...

Look at the numbers. 333 posts, mostly by a very small number of people, but 19300+ readers. That's a lot of interest--like a crowd watching a guy on a ledge, and yelling "Jump!, Jump!" Everybody thinks something is going to happen. Don't hold your breath.
I think these guys just enjoy the fight, don't really care about the outcome. It's like our old town meetings (in person-remember those?) when a few people would have a few drinks ahead of time and then argue about everything with the guys they'd been drinking with earlier. Everybody else snickering behind their sleeve because, well, "That's just Tom, Dick, and Harry being Tom, Dick, and Harry, again."
All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

[owenoutdoors]

Originally Posted by Descant

All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

rough day?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Look at the numbers. 333 posts, mostly by a very small number of people, but 19300+ readers. That's a lot of interest--like a crowd watching a guy on a ledge, and yelling "Jump!, Jump!" Everybody thinks something is going to happen. Don't hold your breath.
I think these guys just enjoy the fight, don't really care about the outcome. It's like our old town meetings (in person-remember those?) when a few people would have a few drinks ahead of time and then argue about everything with the guys they'd been drinking with earlier. Everybody else snickering behind their sleeve because, well, "That's just Tom, Dick, and Harry being Tom, Dick, and Harry, again."
All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

I don't think this is accurate or fair. At a minimum, you paint with too broad a brush. 5 or 10 people have raised legitimate questions on private use of public property and potential impact on the area. If you think certain posters have been inappropriate, you should quote their posts instead of disparaging a group with speculation.

I'm very grateful to a number of the posters for highlighting certain issues that I did not appreciate on an important topic.

[MAXUM]

What I really don't understand here is why is the store owner, NOT Epic, is trying to secure an Airport Site Certificate when this is really not necessary based on what Epic is claiming will be happening in 19 Mile Bay? Why go through this hassle when even Epic has stated and I believe it is accurate he can land wherever he wants. I believe there is more to this and the intent of the store owner is being understated where this not just having Epic running a sight seeing tour or two. Otherwise there would be no reason to go through this process.

Why is Epic doing the dirty work on this - he already has mirror lake to operate off of, 19 mile is a hassle as he would have to take off and land more than is really necessary versus running this out of his place UNLESS the issue here is that he either got caught (neighbor complaints) or knows zoning restrictions would prohibit running a business out of a residential area.

Interestingly enough this certificate as it exists today means nothing other than based on the information submitted meets DOT requirements for a runway and nothing more. It is subject to scrutiny and review and must meet all local ordinances, and local, state and federal law. This is more than a runway and as such the applicant must demonstrate this prior to use. This is why the area developed for the "airport" including specifically the areas to board\unboard the planes is subject to inspection by the BOA. This is why modifications to the town pier is so critical to this plan as the only other option the store owner has is to extend the gas dock which is already a known no go as DES will not allow it.

At face value what I see here is a bait and switch Epic could right now occasionally fly in and out of 19 mile and be fine doing so in fact has. The piers can be worked around as needed for this use. However the situation changes if the desire is to do much more than just that and clearly that is the intention otherwise filing this makes no sense at all and far to elaborate. Furthermore if this was Epic's show he would file it not the store owner yet Epic is the mouthpiece for this the store owner is silent. Odd isn't it?

One final thought, this store owner already has an established reputation of doing what she wants. That is a troubling thought considering the toxic relationship that she has already established with the association she belongs to, yet has openly cried ignorance or discrimination when openly defying the obligations she is bound to with the Pier19 slip owners. Based on that history the town should be very careful in doing anything to enable this person to further exploit any resource that is town property.

Frankly I think many are distracted by Epic and his antics - dig deeper and look beyond that nonsense as it is meaningless. Watch closely what the store owner is doing - that is where everyone needs to remain vigilant. Hopefully the selectmen shoot this proposal down as it would for now nullify any possibility that airport site could be approved for use. The bad part is the store owner has 10 years on that to try to get sufficient logistics in place to satisfy the BOA and thus end up with an approval to operate so even if round one is lost, it won't be the last time this comes up. IF that approval happens it is anyone's guess what that area will turn into.

Something really stinks here.

[Force5]

Maxum,
I agree with absolutely everything you said. Yes, we need to focus of the real intent of the store owner. Everything you said is relevant and makes perfect logic and sense. The whole thing is very deceptive. Seems like if they cant get the town to cut the posts down that may shut the whole project down. The town won't let them run the business from the public dock, I am pretty sure of that. She will try to get a permit for her dock to extend, but we need to think beyond that and let the selectmen hold a public meeting to address creating an ordinance for no seaplane base.

[The Real BigGuy]

Maxum,

Great post! I honestly hadn’t thought of this from the point of view you brought up but, it makes perfect sense. Why make a flight of just over a mile to pick up passengers @ Pier 19 instead of doing it out of an already established & approved seaplane base? Why is ESA taking the heat on the forum when it is the store owner who has filed for the 19 Mile Bay landing area? Something is fishy.

She has 10 years to finalize everything but with the number of people she has alienated (including the 55 boat owners of the association - who should be her best customers) will she last 10 years bleeding $?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Instead of making an intelligent rebuttal you come up with this. Lame.

[Sundancer320]

I said it early on... the store owner wants traffic in her store.. she is using Epic to make the pitch for her because he seemed more credible and articulate than she is. After reading this thread it appears that is not the case.

[CowTimes]

It is unfortunate that there can only be speculation because neither of the proponents are forthcoming to the town or its residents.

My theory has always been that Epic is looking to see if a seaplane tour business would have enough demand to turn into a full-time business (at least for part of the year). He already has the plane, so the main infrastructure need is a commercial base. And if you’re trying to start a business and save money, cheap or free is always best (recall he said this business was a “plan B” for his day job). So the town dock was the perfect target. He can’t run a commercial operation from his place on Mirror Lake because that is zoned residential, and, of course, he would upset his own neighbors coming in and out all the time (curious how that is itself a “NIMBY”). And since this is just the beginning of a business plan of testing for demand, he can say that he still has his day job, this would only be intermittent, and all the other ambiguous statements instead of providing actual details.

My assumption is that the store owners serve three purposes. First, there needs to be an “operator” to call for the runway that (for some reason I don’t understand) appears to be needed for the commercial operation. This presumably needs to be someone that owns property by the runway, so Epic needed the store for the runway. Second, this needs to be run at a commercially zoned area, and the store seemed to check that box (except that isn’t the case, since the store is in a residential area, and the variance/planning board approval doesn’t include a seaplane base / tour business). And third, the store has plenty of parking that isn’t used.

While I am sure the store would like traffic, I doubt anyone thinks seaplanes literally flying in from all over to get an ice cream cone are going to be a real driver of revenue for the store. But a cut of the ticket price (tickets are probably a hundred or more bucks a head?) for not needing to do any work seems to be a no-brainer for the store, particularly when the store has already alienated its neighbors and the boat slip owners.

[Force5]

I have attached the permit submitted to town. Note the dates of April 2 and April 5. The second page paragraph 2 (starred) states the form 7480-1 must be submitted to the town's BOA, once the form is submitted the FAA will conduct a review. Can anyone clarify this? Has it been submitted to the BOA? If not it sounds like the cart before the horse. Why would the DOT submit a permit when the FAA has not conducted a review. What does that review entail? I am hoping the BOA will announce when the FAA will conduct a review(if and when).
I also thought if would be helpful for everyone to print and have the information handy when the town holds a public meeting.

[winni83]

I think the term BOA in that approval refers to the State Department of Transportation Bureau Of Aeronautics.. You may be thinking of BOA as the Board of Aldermen. As a town Tuftonboro does not have Alderman. It has a Board of Selectmen (BOS).

Good information in that attachment. Thanks.

[Force5]

Thank you thought it was Board of Adjustment.

[CowTimes]

For anyone that is still interested in this issue, the town’s board of selectmen discussed several aspects of this at their June 7 meeting. While the selectmen declined to put the issue on their agenda, during the public input portions at the beginning and the end of the meeting, various members of the public raised concerns and there was some interesting discussion. Below is the link to the recording of the meeting. While there was some discussion of the issue at the beginning, if limited in time, the few minutes I would suggest watching begin towards the end at 2:16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9MWIeeWH8

A few observations. First, the selectmen made clear that nothing is going to happen with respect to the wharf pilings until after the refurbishment of the wharf, and the refurbishment will not be done until next year at the earliest (if interested in the wharf refurbishment project, there was an extensive discussion in the middle of the meeting with the town’s consultant on the status of that project).

Second, the selectmen also made clear that there is no appetite for allowing Epic to use the wharf for a commercial enterprise, at least not without a public bid process (i.e., Epic would have to pay the town and address things like liability issues).

And third, as for just private use of the wharf for seaplanes by cutting posts, the selectmen reaffirmed what they said in prior meetings that the first “baby step” in that process is for there to be a demonstration at a selectmen’s meeting (i.e., on the publicly posted agenda for a meeting that will be partly held at the wharf) where the selectmen, the fire chief, and the police chief, together with any member of the public that wants to attend, will be able to observe the demonstration.

The selectmen clearly understand what is going on here, and are attuned to the issues that have been raised and discussed here. The selectmen stated that there will be a full public hearing dedicated to this issue before anything happens on the wharf. Based on their comments, it seems likely that any public hearing would not even occur until after the wharf refurbishment, so at least another year or two.

What I also found most interesting—in light of Epic’s professed openness for the process and that he has nothing to hide—was the chairman’s discussion (at 2:17) of how Epic had requested from the selectmen that the fly-in demonstration be closed and not disclosed to the public in advance, which the chairman noted is not how the town approaches such things.

[knowit]

Very good news from the selectmen!

[MAXUM]

Well just remember the store owner has 10 years to get something done over there so even if the first try fails you can bet it won't be the last.

You can also bet that the store owner is probably trying the same rope a dope on DES to get the gas dock extended although I have to believe that is never going to happen.

The deception going on here is a warning sign both are willing to do anything to get what they want. These people are the reason why so much regulation exists cause they live to exploit every possible loop hole the can find and if that doesn't work lawyer up and start petty litigation and cry discrimination.

Nice to see the Selectmen are paying attention.

[knowit]

True, she is very underhanded. She has shown that. The good news is there is no way that store will be open in ten years. I give them three more years of bleeding cash and it will be for sale.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Wow! Thanks for pointing this out. I had no idea that this discussion happened at the end.

Again, I feel as though people keep pounding the mantra of a "commercial operation" on the warf. I do not know how many times I need to say this... I'm not requesting a dedicated space at the warf! I said that at about minute 10 of the video, but then it was brought up again at the end and still people are insisting on discussing this. All I have to keep saying is that people are misinformed. It is wrong to say that I am requesting a space to operate from.

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF. Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

As far as the public demo I feel the Chairman was very direct and told the author of the email directly to his face, "...to grow up.". I thought that was harsher than I put it at the beginning but it was certainly appropriate. THE REASON THE DEMO WAS CANCELLED WAS THE POLICE CHIEF AND I DECIDED THAT THE THREATS WERE CREDIBLE. The comments that in 100 years there hasn't been commercial operations at the pier are completely false. Barges have been going there forever. Please let me know if what I am saying is false.

As far as the selectman speaking about a need for a public demo, it seems as though we need to get our story straight. They say the Fire Chief and Police Chief want the demo, but when I asked the Fire Chief and Police Chief if they want one they told me no that it wasn't necessary. So someone needs to get aligned. Perhaps the selectmen just want a demo but that is not what they said. THERE IS NO ONE HIDING ANYTHING.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Please let me know if what I am saying is false. Epic Seaplane Adventures

What you are saying is false. The barges do not advertise that they will pick you or your stuff up from the pier 19 wharf. You and or the store owner on the other hand will be advertising seaplane scenic rides from pier 19 wharf for a fee, in other words a private business operating from town property. I do not understand why you do not get that?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF. Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

You leave the dock on a Saturday afternoon in July for a one hour tour. You return to the dock one hour later to drop your first passengers and pick up for your second tour. But by now there are boats where your plane was, and other boats waiting to come ashore. What do you do?

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

It is wrong to say that I am requesting a space to operate from.

…

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

If that is not operation from the wharf, I don’t know what is. The same could be said about any airport gate—“just picking up and dropping off”. The store is not going to get a cut of the ticket price for letting your customers park there? What’s in it for the store that they keep going to every meeting on this? Between needing parking there, picking up passengers there, giving safety briefings there, and dropping passengers off there, that is operation from the wharf. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, by god, it’s probably a duck.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

And for the love of all things holy, please find another strawman. The barges are a necessity for hundreds of town residents on the islands. You are only seeking to use the wharf for commercial use for your personal financial gain. No general benefit to the town AT ALL. That is why barge use up to an hour is expressly permitted by ordinance.

You really do need to find another drum to bang if you think you have a chance to persuade the town that you should be permitted to use the town wharf to run a sightseeing business.

[TomF]

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by TomF

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All day...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TomF

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course! Why not? And a commercial pilot could do the same. I hope they all enjoy ice cream together at the store

But you'll notice that ESA did not answer my question of a day or two ago. Can a pilot of a plane (or a boat) reserve a spot in advance on the dock to pick up his friend? No

[thinkxingu]

Ummm...no. Every public dock on the lake has time limits.

Here you go: https://www.tuftonboro.org/administr...e-adopted-7218

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

All day...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Not accurate. There is a 4-hour docking limit by ordinance for “watercraft” at Union Wharf. That is all setting aside whether a seaplane is considered a “boat” for purposes of the town ordinance. While a seaplane may be considered a watercraft or boat for purposes of state or federal laws and regulations, that does not mean that a seaplane is considered a boat or watercraft for purposes of the town ordinance, which is silent on the issue. So, at best, the answer is that no seaplane could dock at Union Wharf for more than 4 hours, and it is a bit uncertain whether seaplanes were intended to be permitted to dock at Union Wharf at all as the ordinance is currently written.

Also, Epic, from your first post on the forum:

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

The concerns about blocking the dock for Fire and EMS were very legitimate. However, after further investigation and discussion the concerns were addressed. An aircraft at the dock would never be left unattended and could be moved at a moment’s notice…

So which is it, Epic? Is it your position that seaplanes can be left unattended on the wharf for hours, blocking access to the fire boat, or not?

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Not accurate. There is a 4-hour docking limit by ordinance for “watercraft” at Union Wharf. That is all setting aside whether a seaplane is considered a “boat” for purposes of the town ordinance. While a seaplane may be considered a watercraft or boat for purposes of state or federal laws and regulations, that does not mean that a seaplane is considered a boat or watercraft for purposes of the town ordinance, which is silent on the issue. So, at best, the answer is that no seaplane could dock at Union Wharf for more than 4 hours, and it is a bit uncertain whether seaplanes were intended to be permitted to dock at Union Wharf at all as the ordinance is currently written.

Also, Epic, from your first post on the forum:



So which is it, Epic? Is it your position that seaplanes can be left unattended on the wharf for hours, blocking access to the fire boat, or not?

Fair point. I wouldn't leave my plane sitting there unattended. If there is a 4 hr limit then it's a 4 hr limit. Not all day.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Pricestavern]

I've been watching the goings on of this thread for a while now, not having an opinion one way or the other. That is until the threat of providing names to the authorities of those on 'the list' that oppose the seaplane base.

I now have an opinion. How do I get on that list? Put me down. Sign me up. Put me on the Group W bench.

Name: Richard Price

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

I've been watching the goings on of this thread for a while now, not having an opinion one way or the other. That is until the threat of providing names to the authorities of those on 'the list' that oppose the seaplane base.

I now have an opinion. How do I get on that list? Put me down. Sign me up. Put me on the Group W bench.

Name: Richard Price

Thanks Richard,

That is not what happened at all. An email went out. The person who wrote it wasn't very smart and made threats of interfering withe the lawful operation of an aircraft. There was a Google doc also attached to this email where people could go and sign up to support this illegal activity.

The threats were credible and very real. Real enough for the authorities to feel the demonstration be called off.

This email, that went out to many people, is with the authorities as evidence of threats against the lawful operation of an aircraft.

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

These people made threats and put their own names voluntarily on this list.

Like many on this page you assumed and were incorrect in your assumptions.

There is a distinct difference.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

To quote the Chairman of the Selectmen,. "Quite frankly people just need to grow up!"

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Thanks Richard,

That is not what happened at all. An email went out. The person who wrote it wasn't very smart and made threats of interfering withe the lawful operation of an aircraft. There was a Google doc also attached to this email where people could go and sign up to support this illegal activity.

The threats were credible and very real. Real enough for the authorities to feel the demonstration be called off.

This email, that went out to many people, is with the authorities as evidence of threats against the lawful operation of an aircraft.

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

These people made threats and put their own names voluntarily on this list.

Like many on this page you assumed and were incorrect in your assumptions.

There is a distinct difference.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

This is wildly inaccurate and a complete exaggeration to attempt to divert attention from the actual issues here. If a SINGLE individual made a comment about “interfering” with an aircraft, that is attributable to that person and only that person. I don’t think anyone in this community condones that, and in all reality, it was most likely someone blowing off steam with no actual intent to do such things, but regardless, that should never have happened. (And unless there was an actual investigation beyond reading the email, there is nothing to support the concept that it was a “credible” threat. In fact, you mentioned that the authority was the town police chief, which if I recall correctly does not even have jurisdiction on the lake, so I don’t buy the story to begin with. And just so you know, if, as appears to be the case, you were never the intended recipient of the email, it is not a criminal threat to begin with. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it’s not criminal.)

There was no list to sign up to do a mass blockade. Emails went around to community members with a google doc excel to (I) sign up for a listserv so that folks that oppose the seaplane base could keep updated among themselves, and (ii) keep track of who reached out to the selectmen in opposition. If a SINGLE person on that listserv sent around an email, that is attributable only to that person. So stop putting an entire community into a “they” category when at most this was ONE person who likely made some stupid comments in an email in the heat of the moment.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

This is wildly inaccurate and a complete exaggeration to attempt to divert attention from the actual issues here. If a SINGLE individual made a comment about “interfering” with an aircraft, that is attributable to that person and only that person. I don’t think anyone in this community condones that, and in all reality, it was most likely someone blowing off steam with no actual intent to do such things, but regardless, that should never have happened. (And unless there was an actual investigation beyond reading the email, there is nothing to support the concept that it was a “credible” threat. In fact, you mentioned that the authority was the town police chief, which if I recall correctly does not even have jurisdiction on the lake, so I don’t buy the story to begin with. And just so you know, if, as appears to be the case, you were never the intended recipient of the email, it is not a criminal threat to begin with. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it’s not criminal.)

There was no list to sign up to do a mass blockade. Emails went around to community members with a google doc excel to (I) sign up for a listserv so that folks that oppose the seaplane base could keep updated among themselves, and (ii) keep track of who reached out to the selectmen in opposition. If a SINGLE person on that listserv sent around an email, that is attributable only to that person. So stop putting an entire community into a “they” category when at most this was ONE person who likely made some stupid comments in an email in the heat of the moment.

Who is being "wildy inaccurate" now?

Thanks for acknowledging that I didn't make the list.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Who is being "wildy inaccurate" now?

Thanks for acknowledging that I didn't make the list.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Please explain—with facts and not conclusory statements—what is inaccurate in my immediately prior post.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Please explain—with facts and not conclusory statements—what is inaccurate in my immediately prior post.

No offense, but I do not have time all day to spar with you. You are the one who claims, I'm lying, and I'm making stuff up. You are one of the people that is on this list by your own omission. You have done nothing but spread misinformation about me and the only reason why I respond is so that you don't exist in a vacuum.

I will not tolerate people threatening me. It's not just an airplane, it has people inside who have children and lives. You do not get or deserve the time. I will not be threatened.

This town is amazing and a wonderful place and unfortunately there are a few bad, emotional, people, as described as agitators who are activists, who attempt to hide behind a twisted logic, instead of just being honest and stating, "I just don't want and airplane here", these people are the type of people who would lay down in the middle of the highway and block traffic for their cause. Everyone sees this, everyone knows, this is a very small town.

I am done with Cowtimes...

Unless you are brave enough to call me on the phone and have a civil discussion... If not... Please do what the Selectman said and, "Grow Up!".

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

No offense (as you say), but you are a bold faced liar if you are suggesting that there was a broad, coordinated “threat.” As far as I know (and I’ve seen the emails and the “list”), this was nothing more than a single, unsubstantiated “threat” from a single person about boating in the bay while you were to fly in. I have not and will not defend that, and have said it was I’m proper. So you can direct your hostility elsewhere.

But there was a list of well over a hundred town residents that signed up to a listserv to oppose your seaplane base and commercial use of the town dock in the proper, democratic way of contacting town representatives to oppose what you were seeking. You can disparage the opponents as “agitators” or “activists” all you want, but each and every one of those folks has a valid reason to oppose what you are trying to do in their backyard. If you want to tell anyone to grow up, perhaps you can look in the mirror and ask yourself why so many people oppose what you seek, and hardly any support has emerged for you. But no one should stand by silent as you baselessly attack the good names and integrity of more than a hundred town residents that have done nothing more than oppose your proposal through the proper channels.

Unless and until you have emails from each and every one of the individuals that signed up to the listserv agreeing with or joining in anything improper, stop with the transparent efforts to disparage the entirety of your opposition with the stupidity of one bad apple.


________________________________________

[nhd]

I, like many, have been following this post and Epic’s comments on the various Facebook pages. I give support to what Cow Times has been stating and feel they have done a good job. When you don’t get the response you want you get snarky, offer rides or ask someone to call you. A public forum and Facebook are open for dialogue for all to see. If you were “threatened” in an email you were not to have received than appropriate actions would have been taken by the authorities. As far as the cancellation of the demonstration it was not on the agenda for the selectmen. The fire chief in the first selectmen meeting where this was discussed wanted the fly in to be on a busy Saturday as it should be.
As far as the list it was ok for you to post on the Facebook pages for people to write the selectmen in support of the plane even if they do not pay taxes in town, but as soon as a “list” goes out of those who do pay taxes in town you take offense.
Everyone needs to remember that this was initially started when the store owner applied for a commercial landing strip which is required for a plane to land with paying customers. If Epic wants to land occasionally with family he has demonstrated that he can and there has been no alteration done for this to happen. Yes barges use the dock but they are not asking for any alterations, they also are there for only the amount of time needed to load their materials.
Smaller boats and jet skis can and do use the north side of the dock, I think there has been a request by the town to dredge that side when the dock is renovated.
I for one do not like the idea of a commercial business getting exclusive use of the dock and have concerns about the wing blocking for emergency vehicles. I also do not think people in the area mind an occasional plane but what you and the store owner are proposing will generate a lot of noise.
This is not the response Epic will want to hear but I agree there should be no alteration of the dock for the use of a commercial business.

[Sundancer320]

This guy won’t get it... never will. He has engaged in smear, threats and intimidation of people exercising their right to oppose his proposal. All you have to do is look at previous posts of his regarding law enforcement and a so called list. I had this list sent to me and it had nothing in the way of any actions to take. Only a way to add your info to those opposing and as CowTimes stated...it was a long list... so his assertion of a credible threat are pretty weak and is another example of his style of throwing up a smoke screen. I think this seaplane plan will be short lived and will fade away. The selectman seem to know there is a lot of backlash. Oh, I was lakeside on the so called demo day...a couple kayakers and a couple of pontoon boats cruising about... not much a blockade or credible threat.

[ITD]

..........

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

This is not true, and your ranting in earlier posts with no reference to emails or blockades was threatening to people on this Forum

[MAXUM]

This just keeps getting better by the day!

[knowit]

I need to get on this list!

[KPW]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You leave the dock on a Saturday afternoon in July for a one hour tour. You return to the dock one hour later to drop your first passengers and pick up for your second tour. But by now there are boats where your plane was, and other boats waiting to come ashore. What do you do?

I asked the same question and the response was he would do exactly what I would do. I am not flying a plane so not sure that he can do what I would do.

[CowTimes]

For those still following this issue, the Tuftonboro Board of Selectmen will be attending a seaplane demonstration at Union Wharf this Friday, July 9 at 11:00 a.m.

https://www.tuftonboro.org/sites/g/f...g_notice_0.pdf

[The Real BigGuy]

Lots of rain forecast for Friday. Wonder if it will actually happen?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

With all the hell raised over the noise generated from Camp Belknap I can only imagine how mental the nearby residents will get with the sound of planes landing and taking off.

Might help Mr. Owen's chickens lay eggs though

i have roosters. if you can get them to lay eggs i don't care what you fly! teee hee

[knowit]

I just read on FB that the demo was moved to 7-16-21 at 9AM.

[chaseisland]

Don't believe everything you read on FB.

[knowit]

Rescheduled again to July 23 9 AM due to island clean up day.

[chaseisland]

What, too much boat traffic?

[Sundancer320]

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

What were you using for a meter to obtain these readings? What Weighting scale?

A cell phone app is the next best thing to worthless. A professional meter that is calibrated on site with a calibrator, just prior to taking the readings, is the only accurate way to take a meaningful measurement. In my work, I take acoustic sound level measurements on a regular basis to evaluate the effect of professional sound systems in residential neighborhoods. Neighbors seem to all have $20.00 amazon meters or cell phone apps which vary widely and can easily be manipulated to read what suits ones purpose either high or low.

I"m not trying to give you a hard time but simply to bring up the fact that an arbitrary reading has little meaning.

[chaseisland]

Today's test was a waste of time. No boats in the bay during the landing. Ambient weekend conditions demands numerous boats in the bay area creating numerous wakes at various angles to each other and several Captain boneheads thrown within the mix.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

This is good data! Thank you for posting!

[Sundancer320]

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

From facebook a short time ago, name withheld by me, "as a neighbor on Mirror Lake I can verify that the noise generated during take-off and landing would wake the dead. It’s loud!"

[knowit]

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by knowit

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

Please don't confuse confidence with arrogance. Attempting to accomplish something of worth or value is done by confident people. Attempting to prevent or inhibit is done by arrogant people. You may have enjoyed asking the question, you just did not enjoy listening. Again, im confident that if you call me up and have a conversation that you would still be unhappy with the answers. No changing people's minds that just want "plane be gone". Have a great day. And besides, it wasn't an impromptu question session, it was specifically a Seaplane demonstration for the town selectman to consider having the dock posts lowered. I think the few agitators there heard the Chairman say that loud and clear.

[CowTimes]

Characterizing all those opposed to your attempt to run a seaplane business from town property as “agitators” is the definition of arrogance. There are lots of legitimate reasons why this is a horrible idea for 19 mile bay, including safety, noise, zoning, improper use of public property, among many others. You are living in your own universe—indeed, you are the only one that is affirmatively advocating for your proposal, which is unsurprising since it is a thinly veiled attempt for you to run a business from town property without addressing zoning, licensing, or substantial liability issues for the town. This is not about just lowering dock posts. The only reason you want to lower dock posts and went to get runway approval was because you need that to run paying customers from Union Wharf. The board of selectmen clearly understands what is going on here. They have repeatedly said—including at this year’s Islander’s Association meeting—that this “proposal” is going nowhere anytime soon, and there will be public hearings before anything like this is even considered, and all that will not happen until after Union Wharf is rebuilt in a year a two. Good luck pushing your own personal, pecuniary agenda at public hearings where you characterize everyone with legitimate opposition as agitators that should just be dismissed out of hand. The board of selectmen see the overwhelming opposition from their constituents and have no reason to defy the clear will of the community for you.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

I am not the one who posted the decibel levels. Now you are trying to unwind your post...

[LIforrelaxin]

So all this discussion about noise... Makes me think about the boat noise debate.... some fun information on this subject...

1. When sound is at 85 decibels for a duration of a work shift (8 hours) OHSA requires hearing protection
2. how loud is your average construction site -- around 100 decibels
3. how load is a conversation between two individuals sitting at a table --- around 60 decibels...

With this said, those who argue over noise pollution, as a reason not to allow a personal sea plane to go in and out of the town dock... better not be yelling, or having any work done....

Over all people tend to be too worked up over this.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

[John Mercier]

Stationary dB testing with calibrated equipment set to an A-Weighting at 20 inches from the exhaust really isn't comparable to a moving object at unknown distance.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

Nobody is trying to infringe upon Epic's rights--he is free to fly his plane. He has asked for things, such as dock modifications, that the town may grant. But he does not have a right to those things.

All people have a right to express their opinion. Epic has criticized people vehemently for exercising those rights.

So I think you have the rights thing backwards.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?