Mt Washington Hiker

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Hypothermic people often take off their clothes in delirium, so it "makes sense" that she was barefoot.

One thing that does not make sense is the explanation that she did not dress properly because she lacked winter hiking experience, although she had summer hiking experience. Those who have hiked 4000' on anything other than a few lucky days in July know that she was woefully underdressed from the start. So sad and senseless...

She had already hiked almost all of the 48 4000 footers. In that case, it's hard to understand why she wasn't better prepared---the AMC guide is very explicit about conditions in the White Mountains. I too feel that she was doomed from the start and the only thing that could have saved her was good judgment (turning back)---something 19-year-olds aren't particularly good at. If you go off the trail, at some point you realize you're in deep snow in trail shoes and you turn back---unless your thinking is impaired. Had she been hiking with another person, perhaps they would have made better decisions together.

[ITD]

Unfortunately you don't know what you don't know. And sometimes that will kill you.

RIP to the young lady. I honestly don't know how to prevent people who don't know from doing this. But it seems to happen every so often.

[webmaster]

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

She obviously was not prepared on any level. We may never know exactly what happened but I believe the story started before she even got to the parking lot. Too many things just don’t add up.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

I agree with this.

But, wouldn't her cell phone signal show where she is at assuming three things; A). It's turned on and B). Battery strength was fine and C). Cell service was available.

The outcome is sad. Let's hope this unhappy ending proves to be a valued learning curve for a future hiker.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I agree with this.

But, wouldn't her cell phone signal show where she is at assuming three things; A). It's turned on and B). Battery strength was fine and C). Cell service was available.

The outcome is sad. Let's hope this unhappy ending proves to be a valued learning curve for a future hiker.

I have to think her phone was dead long before she got in trouble given 1. She used it as a flashlight, 2. She wasn't carrying enough gear to assume she had a charging pack, 3. It was too cold for a battery to survive a day unless she had the right insulation, which she clearly did not.

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[4 for Boating]

As sort of an aside - I believe the new iPhone 14 has the ability to send an SOS if needed on any network like the older models but this particular version (14 family) has the ability to send such an SOS via satellite if no cell signal is present. An impressive feature especially for those going off the beaten path and may end up saving some lives.

[4 for Boating]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

As sort of an aside - I believe the new iPhone 14 has the ability to send an SOS if needed on any network like the older models but this particular version (14 family) has the ability to send such an SOS via satellite if no cell signal is present. An impressive feature especially for those going off the beaten path and may end up saving some lives.

Well - that didn't take long for this new feature to to come into play:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-em...194918337.html

Don't know much about the beacons mentioned as I'm sure they are good/powerful tools to have but a phone upgrade to the 14 that can do this for the causal hiker seems like a no-brainer...

[LikeLakes]

Really a shame, from all accounts sounds like an experienced hiker and good guy. I wonder if we'll get an account of what happened eventually from his wife, did he back up taking a selfie, did he just slip at the edge? I know it really doesn't matter but I'd still be curious to know.

When we hike this weekend it will be the first time out with spikes this year, quite a change from a week ago.

[fatlazyless]

This page from https://yaktrax.com/traction.html shows twelve different types of traction attachments with different hardware at different prices to grip the ice, slush, snow, and steepness for supposedly safe winter walking and climbing.

For $19.95 I've had good use with going through about three pair in two years with the el cheapo $19.95 Yaktrax walk traction device named the Yaktrax Pro ... until the stretch rubber breaks apart ..... good for woods and hill walking ..... is somewhat similar to tire chains plus they are low price .....not too good for ice climbing at .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC9_NL-YLFs ...... at Frankenstein Cliff just down the Crawford Notch, Rt-302 road from the very popular hike up Mt Willard.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This page from https://yaktrax.com/traction.html shows twelve different types of traction attachments with different hardware at different prices to grip the ice, slush, snow, and steepness for supposedly safe winter walking and climbing.

For $19.95 I've had good use with going through about three pair in two years with the el cheapo $19.95 Yaktrax walk traction device before the stretch rubber breaks apart ..... good for woods and hill walking ..... is somewhat similar to tire chains plus they are low price .....not too good for ice climbing at .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC9_NL-YLFs ...... Frankenstein Cliff.

From my personal experience, Yaktrax suck. They break, fall off, only fit certain footwear well. I much prefer Kahtoola Microspikes. Yes they cost 3 times what Yaktrax cost, but when I'm 4 miles in on a winter hike I'd rather have the quality product. They have several different options with more and less aggressive spikes.

[fatlazyless]

Walking devices with spikes or points are good for the steeps, but their pitfall is catching a spike while walking and falling down. The $19.95 Yaktrax Pro is similar to smooth tire chains and good for intermediate traction.

This Yaktrax link shows them at $34.95 but you can find them in Ebay for $19.95 ...... in July?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

From my personal experience, Yaktrax suck. They break, fall off, only fit certain footwear well. I much prefer Kahtoola Microspikes. Yes they cost 3 times what Yaktrax cost, but when I'm 4 miles in on a winter hike I'd rather have the quality product. They have several different options with more and less aggressive spikes.

The Hillsound Trail Crampon is my choice—a tad longer spikes and a Velcro strap that goes across the top of the foot to prevent them from falling off. I often see lost Kahtoolas hanging in the trees.

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[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The Hillsound Trail Crampon is my choice—a tad longer spikes and a Velcro strap that goes across the top of the foot to prevent them from falling off. I often see lost Kahtoolas hanging in the trees.

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I just took a look, nice looking product. Similar in design to Kahtoola with the addition of the strap. I haven't had a microspike fall off yet, quite a few miles of mixed hiking. Funny your comment about hanging in trees, my last pair of Yaktrax I was hiking Tecumseh when I noticed one foot slipping, looked down and it had fallen off. I started back down and a hiker said they saw one that someone hung on a branch, so I was able to retrieve it, nice that they did that. After it fell off multiple times I ended up lacing it in place to finish the hike.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I just took a look, nice looking product. Similar in design to Kahtoola with the addition of the strap. I haven't had a microspike fall off yet, quite a few miles of mixed hiking. Funny your comment about hanging in trees, my last pair of Yaktrax I was hiking Tecumseh when I noticed one foot slipping, looked down and it had fallen off. I started back down and a hiker said they saw one that someone hung on a branch, so I was able to retrieve it, nice that they did that. After it fell off multiple times I ended up lacing it in place to finish the hike.

Yeah, Yaktrax are useless for anything beyond driveways.

Tecumseh is lame except for one thing: its proximity to Benton's Sugar Shack.

Any hikes planned? I did North Pack with my teacher friends last Saturday, which was great. My goal this year is to (finally) bag Waumbek and Starr King.

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[SailinAway]

For your driveway and smaller local trails: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TF8&th=1&psc=1

They last a lot longer than the ones with the little studs. The rubber and the spikes are tough.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yeah, Yaktrax are useless for anything beyond driveways.

Tecumseh is lame except for one thing: its proximity to Benton's Sugar Shack.

Any hikes planned? I did North Pack with my teacher friends last Saturday, which was great. My goal this year is to (finally) bag Waumbek and Starr King.

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I know what you mean about Tecumseh but I still enjoy it, easy to get up high on days when a longer round trip doesn't fit.

We hiked Waumbek for the first time this summer, really enjoyed it. Lately we've been doing 4-7 mile stuff, preferably loops, like Cardigan and Welch-Dickey. Also hike the Belkaps at times, Percival-Morgan, etc. I'd like to finish off the 4000's but have to allocate more time to do that.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I know what you mean about Tecumseh but I still enjoy it, easy to get up high on days when a longer round trip doesn't fit.

We hiked Waumbek for the first time this summer, really enjoyed it. Lately we've been doing 4-7 mile stuff, preferably loops, like Cardigan and Welch-Dickey. Also hike the Belkaps at times, Percival-Morgan, etc. I'd like to finish off the 4000's but have to allocate more time to do that.

We did Major a few weeks ago, coming from the back side starting at Precipice West—what an awesome stretch.

Roberts may be my favorite in the area, The Bonds and Baldfaces my favorite overall.

How many 48's you have left?

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[LikeLakes]

We did Roberts a few months ago and loved it, what a great hike and the views are amazing.

I've done around 30, maybe 32. So 2/3 of the way there. How about you?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

We did Roberts a few months ago and loved it, what a great hike and the views are amazing.

I've done around 30, maybe 32. So 2/3 of the way there. How about you?

I'm not really paying attention, but I think somewhere in the high 30's.

My problem is that on most occasions I choose better hikes over bagging peaks. For example, I've headed up to bang out the Kinsmans three or four times...and have always ended up on the Ridge!

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

Kate Matrosova had a PLB, but it didn't save her life. Although they can be useful, in her case it pinged off different towers and led to different location signals. Most likely it was because it was still in her backpack and not oriented correctly.

There's also the reality that the user has to be in the right frame of mind to use it.

The reality is that all the safety gear in the world reduces the risk but does not cancel it out altogether.

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[ITD]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Kate Matrosova had a PLB, but it didn't save her life. Although they can be useful, in her case it pinged off different towers and led to different location signals. Most likely it was because it was still in her backpack and not oriented correctly.

There's also the reality that the user has to be in the right frame of mind to use it.

The reality is that all the safety gear in the world reduces the risk but does not cancel it out altogether.

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I just read a little about Kate. Her accident chain began when she decided to go hiking in spite of a blizzard warning. Then apparently she wasn't carrying the equipment required to survive should the blizzard hit. She probably thought she could beat the weather. Unfortunately weather doesn't always follow the forecaster's schedule. I fly small aircraft and this happens a lot.

The PLB issue was unfortunate, but apparently the first signal pointed very close where she was found. Newer PLBs use gps for location and transmit to satellites. They are supposed to be very reliable. I've never owned or used one though. I hope I would not put myself into a situation like this, but I'm sure these ladies didn't think they were putting themselves into a situation like this when they started their hikes.

It's very sad.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

Thanks! I have not hiked significantly in the past few years, but my plan has been to resume this spring. I hiked alone often before these were so inexpensive, but never considered one due to cost. I will buy one in April

[mowtorman]

Federal lawsuit over risk warning and responsibility in wilderness areas 25 years ago in 1994. She rode past her friends who had stopped and right over the headwall on a tube or plastic toboggan. Family sued either NH or the federal government.

MOUNT WASHINGTON, N.H. (AP) _ A hiker slipped and plunged 100 feet into a crevasse, becoming the third person to die on Mount Washington this year.

Cheryl Weingarten, 21, of Hewlett, N.Y., slid on snow and ice Sunday at Tuckerman Ravine and fell into a chasm, breaking her neck, said Rebecca Oreskes, U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman. Her body was recovered Monday.

Weingarten, a student at Tufts University in Medford, Mass., and two friends had hiked to the mountain’s 6,288-foot summit and were headed down, Oreskes said. Rescuers said they were not properly equipped for winter hiking.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

My hunter friends carry a Garmin GPS that brings them back to their car/truck.

LINK


On a completely different note. Garmin makes GPS units for dogs.
LINK

[fatlazyless]

Emily Sotelo froze to death on either Nov 20 or 21 or maybe 22. Her body was found on the 23rd at about 11-am.

Her problem was that she kept going when the weather turned cold and windy, plus she didn't have any warm clothing.

Whether she had a backpack, day pack or trail running mini-pack is unknown so could be she had only the clothes she was wearing.

Wednesday, Nov 23 would have been her 20th birthday so she will be forever, age-19, and some legend myth will arise seeing her ghost running that Franconia Ridge trail for the next hundred years.

I think I just saw Emily ........ there she goes! ...... up that steep, rocky trail! ...... there goes Emily! ......

http://theswellesleyreport.com/2022/...ite-mountains/ .... Former Wellesley public school student dies while hiking in White Mountains

...... "Sotelo had been a musician, a cross country runner, and a talented writer acknowledged by a Scholastic Art & Writing Award."

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Emily Sotelo froze to death on either Nov 20 or 21 or maybe 22. Her body was found on the 23rd at about 11-am.

Her problem was that she kept going when the weather turned cold and windy, plus she didn't have any warm clothing.

Whether she had a backpack, day pack or trail running mini-pack is unknown so could be she had only the clothes she was wearing.

Wednesday, Nov 23 would have been her 20th birthday so she will be forever, age-19, and some legend myth will arise seeing her ghost running that Franconia Ridge trail for the next hundred years.

I think I just saw Emily ........ there she goes! ...... up that steep, rocky trail! ...... there goes Emily! ......

Your demented, you know that….

[mowtorman]

Sympathy for tinnitus, comedy for another death in the White Mtns. Another new low. How low can you go?

[Mr. V]

R.I.P. Emily Sotelo.

She lived her life on her own terms.

[Pine Island Guy]

When an incident occurs like this in the White Mountains there is a battalion of rescuers, both paid and volunteer, that risk their own lives to try and find the person that (often times) has gone hiking without the proper precautions or experience.

For whatever reason, people don't believe the incredible and swift changes in weather that can occur up there... starting with the first hiker death in 1849... almost 200 years and people still think that they won't be another one.

These brave rescuers put their own lives on the line for others, going out in the worst of the worst conditions. A few years ago, one of them died in an avalanche trying to find two woefully unprepared 17 year old's (both of them found alive four days later, although lost limbs to frostbite).

This 20 year old losing her life is very sad indeed, but let's not forget the rescue squad that tried to have it turn out to be a happier conclusion!!!

It continues to be a beautiful week on the island, ice will be coming in soon enough (hopefully) -PIG

[SailinAway]

While it's important to acknowledge the harm that rescuers risk, it's also a fact that ALL people are subject to certain tendencies of the human mind (hubris, psychological biases, impulsivity, etc.), and that the brain isn't fully developed until age 25, which explains in part why teenagers can have poor judgment. Anybody here who hasn't made a major error of judgment at some point? I sometimes make such errors even after gathering a lot of information and thoroughly analyzing a problem. Some mountain accidents are just plain dumb. Others happen in less blameworthy circumstances. Hopefully we will learn more about how and why Emily Sotelo died.

[fatlazyless]

June 18, 2022 ........ 53-year old, experienced male hiker freezes to death on the Gulfside Trail below Mt Clay, close to Mt Washington ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/06/20...-mt-clay-dies/


November 20 or 21, 2022 ...... 19-year old, experienced female hiker freezes to death on the Old Bridle Path trail descending Mt Lafayette ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/11/23...d-mt-lafayette


So ...... attention everybody ....... so, here's my big question ..... with hindsight being 20-20, what would have kept these two different experienced hikers from Massachusetts alive and still able to go hiking, here in New Hampshire again today, if they had both done something different on the day they got froze to death hiking the White Mountains in New Hampshire?

Answer: Don't die climbing the mountain, turn around and go back, and wait for a better weather day. Warm and wind protective clothing, warm mittens, a warm hat, good food-drink, a headlight flashlight, sturdy wooden matches and fire starters in a small plastic bag, a compass, a good quality whistle, a sleeping bag and insulated sleeping pad and your own CAUTIOUS approach to cold weather hiking will go a long way to getting you there and back, safely, while doing a winter day hike.

And, how come their smart phones did not save either one of these two dead hikers from freezing to death in June, and November, 2022?
...............

p.s. ..... shouldn't this thread's title be corrected to "Mt Lafayette-5260' Hiker"....... and who the heck was the Marquis de Lafayette? .....

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

June 18, 2022 ........ 53-year old, experienced male hiker freezes to death on the Gulfside Trail below Mt Clay, close to Mt Washington ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/06/20...-mt-clay-dies/


November 20 or 21, 2022 ...... 19-year old, experienced female hiker freezes to death on the Old Bridle Path trail descending Mt Lafayette ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/11/23...d-mt-lafayette


So ...... attention everybody ....... here's the big question ..... with hindsight being 20-20, what would have kept these two different experienced hikers from Massachusetts alive and still able to go hiking, here in New Hampshire again today, if they had both done something different on the day they got froze to death hiking the White Mountains in New Hampshire?

Answer: Don't die climbing the mountain, turn around and go back, and wait for a better weather day, plus having warm protective clothing, food, drink and a headlight flashlight helps, too.

And, how come their smart phone did not save them?

Well to start, a very good understanding of weather and where to find the pertinent information. Looking at the MSN icon on your phone is not a proper weather briefing for a hike like this, especially in or near the winter. You need to understand that the adiabatic lapse rate is about 3 to 5 degrees per thousand feet elevation. ( so sea level to 4000 feet is about 15 degrees less at altitude than at sea level) This does not account for other conditions such as fronts, inversions, etc. Wind generally increases at altitude, as a cold front goes through and especially after a cold front goes through the wind can go from calm to crazy in minutes.

Cell phones don't work in these areas, this means maps on your phone too, unless you have made preparations ahead of time.

You need to map out your route and make sure someone knows it. Write it down.

As the webmaster noted, EPIRBs are very inexpensive now and can have rescue crews to your location quickly. Get one. In fact I probably will get one for snowmobile season if we get any snow here.

Hike with a buddy. For so many reasons it's a bad idea to hike like this alone, especially this time of year.

Dress or carry clothes that will allow you to survive really cold weather for the night, or more.

This is common sense to me. But a young person just may have not done the research.

There are many hobbies that are just not forgiving of missteps or negligence, as innocent as this girl's mistake probably was, she paid the ultimate price. Hopefully others can learn and not repeat the mistake.