Trespassing

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by ITD

Don't know how this post ended up in this thread, it was for the Verizon tree thread, lol.

The trespassing issue is a tough one. I think the best way to handle it is to talk to them, then call the cops while you are there.

I think it’s pretty cut and dry. If I were there, I would handle it directly and that would be the end of it. They know I’m not so they take advantage. I’m not expecting much. I think most people, even those who are willing to ignore a sign, would no longer do it if they were caught doing it.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by 54fighting

I think it’s pretty cut and dry. If I were there, I would handle it directly and that would be the end of it. They know I’m not so they take advantage. I’m not expecting much. I think most people, even those who are willing to ignore a sign, would no longer do it if they were caught doing it.

Sorry you have to deal with this, there are a lot of entitled people out there. I don't know where your property is but the Moultonboro police are very responsive and would probably get right over to give them a talking to.

[BroadHopper]

As discussed, the property must be posted No trespassing.

If there is any vandalism or destruction of property police will definitely take notice otherwise they will take it under advisement.

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by ITD

Sorry you have to deal with this, there are a lot of entitled people out there. I don't know where your property is but the Moultonboro police are very responsive and would probably get right over to give them a talking to.

Thanks. I didn’t want to bug the police if this wasn’t something they would want to address. I certainly wouldn’t involve them if I were there to address it myself. I know they have better things to do. Some people have told me I shouldn’t care if I’m not there and not using it. But I paid for the property, and I pay the taxes. And I’m not interested in encouraging this or encountering it when I am there. More importantly, this is something I would never do. It seems fundamental; I don’t take or use something that does belong to me. Anyway, the police were responsive, so I appreciate that.

[TheProfessor]

There are a multitude of cameras that are used to collect pictures of wildlife.

LINK

Resolution varies. One that can catch a license plate would be of help.

Even these with proper signs might help. LINK

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by 54fighting

Thanks. I didn’t want to bug the police if this wasn’t something they would want to address. I certainly wouldn’t involve them if I were there to address it myself. I know they have better things to do. Some people have told me I shouldn’t care if I’m not there and not using it. But I paid for the property, and I pay the taxes. And I’m not interested in encouraging this or encountering it when I am there. More importantly, this is something I would never do. It seems fundamental; I don’t take or use something that does belong to me. Anyway, the police were responsive, so I appreciate that.

What are they actually doing on your land? If there is a chain blocking the entrance, how do they get in? Are they using your land to access the lake?
Is this a regular, every day thing? Is there not a public area nearby that gives them access to the lake?

I’m sorry you are going through this and I hope this is not the new norm.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

If these entitled people who think nothing of trespassing on property that isn’t theirs should become injured while trespassing, do you think they will think twice about suing you? Now think carefully…….

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

If these entitled people who think nothing of trespassing on property that isn’t theirs should become injured while trespassing, do you think they will think twice about suing you? Now think carefully…….

NH is strong in this regard. State statutes provide that anyone accessing your property, with or without permission, has no claim against the property owner.

[camp guy]

...until the injured party hires a lawyer specializing in injury claims.

[Descant]

I know this is troubling to the OP, but I can't help wondering about some things. For example, is it a driveway, or as is not uncommon, a class VI road where it is illegal to block? Do the trespassers have permission from a previous owner? Is adverse possession for lake access possible, etc.
It would seem to me that the chain going up and down is an obvious indicator that nobody is home.

To the OP: Where's "your guy"? Most people have a "guy" who watches the place when it is vacant to be sure it doesn't freeze up, or a tree fall into the living room, or shovel the roof, etc. while nobody is there, etc. Maybe the guy who plows? You do keep the access open so fire apparatus can get in, right? (if not, does your insurance co know?) BTW, for the posters above, if some trespasser sues you, your insurance carrier provides defense costs. No charge to you.

If you've gone to the expense of trail cams, there's an opportunity for some fun here. It shouldn't take much to add a speaker/microphone so that you can talk to the trespassers on camera from your cell phone. Scare their pants off. Double it and make your signal cannon remote controlled. You only get one shot, but still fun.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

I know this is troubling to the OP, but I can't help wondering about some things. For example, is it a driveway, or as is not uncommon, a class VI road where it is illegal to block? Do the trespassers have permission from a previous owner? Is adverse possession for lake access possible, etc.
It would seem to me that the chain going up and down is an obvious indicator that nobody is home.

To the OP: Where's "your guy"? Most people have a "guy" who watches the place when it is vacant to be sure it doesn't freeze up, or a tree fall into the living room, or shovel the roof, etc. while nobody is there, etc. Maybe the guy who plows? You do keep the access open so fire apparatus can get in, right? (if not, does your insurance co know?) BTW, for the posters above, if some trespasser sues you, your insurance carrier provides defense costs. No charge to you.

If you've gone to the expense of trail cams, there's an opportunity for some fun here. It shouldn't take much to add a speaker/microphone so that you can talk to the trespassers on camera from your cell phone. Scare their pants off. Double it and make your signal cannon remote controlled. You only get one shot, but still fun.

Vacant lot.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Vacant lot.

I wish post #20 had been post #2.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

I wish post #20 had been post #2.

I got the information from post #1.

[longislander]

These are among the strongest landowner protection laws I have seen.

I'm not attorney, but they are based on the landowner "allowing" the use of the propery, for recreational use or otherwise. Does not seem to be the crux of this thread...

Another great NH statute to protect landowners is RSA 79-A:1 (Current Use) that also provides property tax benefits, that some of us enjoy. (note, 10 acres etc.). It really makes a difference to my taxes in MoBo.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...9-A/79-A-1.htm

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by longislander

I'm not attorney, but they are based on the landowner "allowing" the use of the propery, for recreational use or otherwise. Does not seem to be the crux of this thread...

Another great NH statute to protect landowners is RSA 79-A:1 (Current Use) that also provides property tax benefits, that some of us enjoy. (note, 10 acres etc.). It really makes a difference to my taxes in MoBo.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...9-A/79-A-1.htm

The statutes specifically reference trespassing and the possibility of dangerous conditions. The potential for liability was mentioned a few times, so the cite seemed relevant. FWIW, if you take your property out of current use you are required to make a one time payment of 10% of the current value of the property.

[longislander]

The statutes specifically reference trespassing ...

Landowner Liability Law (RSA 508:14) and Duty of Care Law (RSA 212:34).

Where?

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...508/508-14.htm

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...212/212-34.htm

Lawyers:
"Under New Hampshire Law RSA 635:2, someone has committed criminal trespass if they know they are not licensed or privileged to be in a place, or if they remain in a place after being told to leave. A first offense is a misdemeanor."

https://www.tennandtenn.com/criminal...%20misdemeanor.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa.../635/635-2.htm

FWIW, if you take your property out of current use you are required to make a one time payment of 10% of the current value of the property.

Was, and am fully aware of the info, and do believe it is worth your commenting: "... land must be 10 or more acres, and must be a forest, farm, or unproductive land."

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/current-use/booklets.htm

When I bought my 34 acres in 2017 the tax bill was $24. Subsequently took 2 acres out of current use for the house build and driveway. Yes, I did pay the 10% ... no problem! Still enjoying the other 32 acrres at current use and also enjoy the land value appreciation. I've subsequently subdivided the 34 acres into two lots: 13 acres and 21 acres. The 13 acres is in trust to my son, and the 21 acres are still enjoying "current use" (except fot the two acres for the house and driveway).

I should change my forum name to MoBONecker!

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by longislander

The statutes specifically reference trespassing ...

Where?

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...508/508-14.htm

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...212/212-34.htm

Lawyers:
"Under New Hampshire Law RSA 635:2, someone has committed criminal trespass if they know they are not licensed or privileged to be in a place, or if they remain in a place after being told to leave. A first offense is a misdemeanor."

https://www.tennandtenn.com/criminal...%20misdemeanor.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa.../635/635-2.htm

Was, and am fully aware of the info, and do believe it is worth your commenting: "... land must be 10 or more acres, and must be a forest, farm, or unproductive land."

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/current-use/booklets.htm

When I bought my 34 acres in 2017 the tax bill was $24. Subsequently took 2 acres out of current use for the house build and driveway. Yes, I did pay the 10% ... no problem! Still enjoying the other 32 acrres at current use and also enjoy the land value appreciation. I've subsequently subdivided the 34 acres into two lots: 13 acres and 21 acres. The 13 acres is in trust to my son, and the 21 acres are still enjoying "current use" (except fot the two acres for the house and driveway).

I should change my forum name to MoBONecker!

I’m wrong. There is no specific reference to trespassing in the statute. This is the interpretation of NH Fish & Wildlife. Whether this is based on case law interpreting the statutes or common sense or both I do not know; it is difficult to imagine a scenario where, under the same circumstances, liability could exist to a trespasser where none exists to a permittee.

I didn’t mean to suggest that you were unaware of this aspect of the current use law. However, since you chose to highlight the advantage of the law (presumably with the intent of enlightening others less knowledgeable) it seemed appropriate to mention the potential disadvantage.

[John Mercier]

It doesn't make a difference. There have been attempts to circumvent it. But they failed in court.

A horseback rider trying to sue a landowner, and failing, led to Lyndeborough vs Boisvert.

The closest I have heard of was the chain across the access point that killed a snowmobiler. We now suggest adding a piece of 4" pvc pipe painted/draped in bright orange. With the trespass sign(s) legally posted to the trees/posts that the chain/cable runs across.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Without running this topic even more into the ditch, I sincerely hope that this can be resolved for you. It’s pathetic that some people seem to feel that it’s their right to use what isn’t theirs. Something like this can very easily turn confrontational, even violent. I hope that doesn’t happen here. Anyhow, good luck with it.

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by Descant

I know this is troubling to the OP, but I can't help wondering about some things. For example, is it a driveway, or as is not uncommon, a class VI road where it is illegal to block? Do the trespassers have permission from a previous owner? Is adverse possession for lake access possible, etc.
It would seem to me that the chain going up and down is an obvious indicator that nobody is home.

To the OP: Where's "your guy"? Most people have a "guy" who watches the place when it is vacant to be sure it doesn't freeze up, or a tree fall into the living room, or shovel the roof, etc. while nobody is there, etc. Maybe the guy who plows? You do keep the access open so fire apparatus can get in, right? (if not, does your insurance co know?) BTW, for the posters above, if some trespasser sues you, your insurance carrier provides defense costs. No charge to you.

If you've gone to the expense of trail cams, there's an opportunity for some fun here. It shouldn't take much to add a speaker/microphone so that you can talk to the trespassers on camera from your cell phone. Scare their pants off. Double it and make your signal cannon remote controlled. You only get one shot, but still fun.

None of this is applicable.

If anyone is interested:

Landowner Liability Law (RSA 508:14) and Duty of Care Law (RSA 212:34).

From NH Fish & Game

“If someone uses your land for outdoor recreational activities and they get hurt on your property, you assume no responsibility or incur no liability. You are protected whether or not you give permission to use the land, and whether or not you sign your land as “No Trespassing”.

There are a few situations where you are not protected. These include charging a fee for entering the property to recreate, maliciously failing to warn against a dangerous condition, and intentionally hurting the recreational user.”

These are among the strongest landowner protection laws I have seen.

[54fighting]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

What are they actually doing on your land? If there is a chain blocking the entrance, how do they get in? Are they using your land to access the lake?
Is this a regular, every day thing? Is there not a public area nearby that gives them access to the lake?

I’m sorry you are going through this and I hope this is not the new norm.

They park on the road and duck under the chain. It’s not an every day thing, but literally as I’m typing this my trail cam is showing them there again. It’s to access the lake. I don’t know if there is a public access point nearby, but it’s not my obligation, among all of the owners on the lake, to provide access. The irritating thing is this - if they had taken the time and effort to find out who I was and asked I probably would have said ok. But that ship has sailed.