R,R,and D vote in Concord today

[Major]

Originally Posted by Dick52

You just crack me up. No way are your posts for real. Anyway...A study by the University of Wisconsin-Madison found that lower speed limits on inland lakes in Wisconsin reduced the number of accidents and fatalities.

A study by the National Marine Manufacturers Association found that slower speeds reduce the risk of accidents and injuries, and that boaters who travel at slower speeds are more likely to be wearing life jackets.

I feel better about myself knowing that God put me on his great earth to amuse you! I tried finding the studies you referenced - 10 minutes - with no luck. Maybe you can provide links?

I know what I see and believe. Like many on this Forum I have been boating for many years. I’ve witnessed firsthand what I have thought were dangerous and unsafe situations. An example is some yahoo coming out of the channel with literally dozens of boats in front of him, bow up, full throttle. That’s dangerous. I have never thought or gauged some guy with a fast boat on open water with no one around him as being dangerous. I guess with the decline of common sense, we are forced to adopt silly rules. The irony is that those who lack common sense probably don’t adhere to rules anyway.


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[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Major

I feel better about myself knowing that God put me on his great earth to amuse you! I tried finding the studies you referenced - 10 minutes - with no luck. Maybe you can provide links?

I know what I see and believe. Like many on this Forum I have been boating for many years. I’ve witnessed firsthand what I have thought were dangerous and unsafe situations. An example is some yahoo coming out of the channel with literally dozens of boats in front of him, bow up, full throttle. That’s dangerous. I have never thought or gauged some guy with a fast boat on open water with no one around him as being dangerous. I guess with the decline of common sense, we are forced to adopt silly rules. The irony is that those who lack common sense probably don’t adhere to rules anyway.


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Thought everyone might like to read part of one person's testimony from last Wednesday's hearing in Concord. The testimonies are part of the public domain and as such are available for the public to review. His take, as one can see, contrasts wildly with Major's rather "Twilight Zone" interpretation of the issues at hand.

"My name is ........, I am a professional Mariner, having graduated from Maine Maritime Academy in 1983. I hold an unlimited Master License, the highest license the USCG issues, and I have lived and boated in NH for over 30 years........

... Professionally, I held Master High Speed Vessel license and operated the HSV Westpac Express in service to the Marine Corp in mid 2000’s. On that vessel, capable of only 40 Knots, on open ocean, not 80-100 mph in enclosed waters full of skiers, kayakers, even swimmers who cross between islands, we had to maintain a bridge watch as follows. 2 men in the control chairs at all times, within arms reach to throttles, one licensed engineer in chair behind us, also eyes forward as lookout. We had ECDIS, 2 radars with ARPA Collision avoidance, AIS and other modern safety features. On that vessel, if I wished to relieve myself on watch, I was not able to get up from my command chair unless the other two chairs were fully manned. No distractions were allowed, no music, no visitors distracting watch officer. Let’s contrast this with a go fast boat, often with either kids on board or beers in hand, sometimes both, towels and toys flying about boat at speed, which are all distractions to the operator. There is no formal training, no electronic collision avoidance equipment, boat is operating in constricted waters with small spar buoys, kayaks, wakeboarders, and the occasional swimmer."

[Major]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Thought everyone might like to read part of one person's testimony from last Wednesday's hearing in Concord. The testimonies are part of the public domain and as such are available for the public to review. His take, as one can see, contrasts wildly with Major's rather "Twilight Zone" interpretation of the issues at hand.

"My name is ........, I am a professional Mariner, having graduated from Maine Maritime Academy in 1983. I hold an unlimited Master License, the highest license the USCG issues, and I have lived and boated in NH for over 30 years........

... Professionally, I held Master High Speed Vessel license and operated the HSV Westpac Express in service to the Marine Corp in mid 2000’s. On that vessel, capable of only 40 Knots, on open ocean, not 80-100 mph in enclosed waters full of skiers, kayakers, even swimmers who cross between islands, we had to maintain a bridge watch as follows. 2 men in the control chairs at all times, within arms reach to throttles, one licensed engineer in chair behind us, also eyes forward as lookout. We had ECDIS, 2 radars with ARPA Collision avoidance, AIS and other modern safety features. On that vessel, if I wished to relieve myself on watch, I was not able to get up from my command chair unless the other two chairs were fully manned. No distractions were allowed, no music, no visitors distracting watch officer. Let’s contrast this with a go fast boat, often with either kids on board or beers in hand, sometimes both, towels and toys flying about boat at speed, which are all distractions to the operator. There is no formal training, no electronic collision avoidance equipment, boat is operating in constricted waters with small spar buoys, kayaks, wakeboarders, and the occasional swimmer."

Sorry, not fact or data, just opinion.


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[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Major

Sorry, not fact or data, just opinion.


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The fact: he is a professional mariner. You are not.

[Major]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

The fact: he is a professional mariner. You are not.

I have it on good authority that the person who testified is a pill-popping raging alcoholic who cheats on his wife and taxes. If he can assume that owners of fast boats have either kids on board or beers in hand, sometimes both, towels and toys flying about boat at speed, which are all distractions to the operator, as well as having no formal training, I can assume the worse of him.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Major

I have it on good authority that the person who testified is a pill-popping raging alcoholic who cheats on his wife and taxes. If he can assume that owners of fast boats have either kids on board or beers in hand, sometimes both, towels and toys flying about boat at speed, which are all distractions to the operator, as well as having no formal training, I can assume the worse of him.

Wow...for a guy who is too busy to send off a quick email to his state rep you seem to have plenty of time to dig up the scuttlebutt. So if you know so much about this guy, what town does he live in, just so we know you're not pulling this out of your hat (hint: I know him, and he'll be interested in knowing your views, as blatantly incorrect as they are). Come on Mr. "give me the facts", give me the facts

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Major

I have it on good authority that the person who testified is a pill-popping raging alcoholic who cheats on his wife and taxes. If he can assume that owners of fast boats have either kids on board or beers in hand, sometimes both, towels and toys flying about boat at speed, which are all distractions to the operator, as well as having no formal training, I can assume the worse of him.

Man...you are really on thin ice and totally out of line. Slandering someone who is, in addition to being a professional mariner, a well respected person in his community. Have you no shame? Was this kind of behavior tolerated in the U.S. Army? Would this kind of talk make your Army buddies proud? Are these the lengths you feel you must resort to to prove your point? A man who writes a thorough and thoughtful description of his professional duties and the best you can do is throw out a wild and untrue accusation to try to shore up your poorly conceived opinion of the need for a speed limit. And given that his testimony is a matter of public record such that someone could look it up and mistakenly assume what you allege is correct? You have certainly given us all a vivid insight into your true character. You need to be a bit more circumspect of what you put out there on the public domain. SHAME ON YOU.

And I have taken a screen shot of your venomous assault should this all be scrubbed. And a word of advice. Before it gets scrubbed you might want to issue an apology/mia culpa. And take a screen shot of it. It might be helpful for you down the line.

[Major]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Man...you are really on thin ice and totally out of line. Slandering someone who is, in addition to being a professional mariner, a well respected person in his community. Have you no shame? Was this kind of behavior tolerated in the U.S. Army? Would this kind of talk make your Army buddies proud? Are these the lengths you feel you must resort to to prove your point. A man who writes a thorough and thoughtful description of his professional duties and the best you can do is throw out a wild and untrue accusation to try to shore up your poorly conceived opinion of the need for a speed limit. And given that his testimony is a matter of public record such that someone could look it up and mistakenly assume what you allege is correct? You have certainly given us all a vivid insight into your true character. You need to be a bit more circumspect of what you put out there on the public domain. SHAME ON YOU.

Geez, lighten up, Francis!! It was a joke! Although my point is valid in that the testifier loses credibility by categorizing all fast boater as distracted, booze guzzling novices.

I have time now, and this issue is important. I have a few questions for you. Do you even own a power boat? Have you ever gone fast in a power boat?

I have owned power boats most of my adult life. Not fast ones, just family boats. My dad owned boats that would do 60+ MPH for 40 years. His last boat was an Eliminator Daytona 27. It would do 85-90 depending on the wind and the chop. (Interesting fact: you go faster into a slight chop and wind than with the chop and wind.)

Anyway, I had the privilege of driving and being with him going fast. Real fast. Went with him with my wife and my kids when they were young. Never once felt unsafe. My dad (and me when I drove) we’re safe, alert and responsible.

After the implementation of the speed limit, he sold his boat.

I am passionate about the issue since most on the wrong side of the issue have never owned a power boat. They really don’t know what they are talking about.

One so-called expert doesn’t define the issue.

Anyway, one thing I know is true - my side lost the battle and the war. Given NH’s demographics, it is unlikely that we’ll have another shot at it.


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[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Major

Geez, lighten up, Francis!! It was a joke! Although my point is valid in that the testifier loses credibility by categorizing all fast boater as distracted, booze guzzling novices.

I have time now, and this issue is important. I have a few questions for you. Do you even own a power boat? Have you ever gone fast in a power boat?

I have owned power boats most of my adult life. Not fast ones, just family boats. My dad owned boats that would do 60+ MPH for 40 years. His last boat was an Eliminator Daytona 27. It would do 85-90 depending on the wind and the chop. (Interesting fact: you go faster into a slight chop and wind than with the chop and wind.)

Anyway, I had the privilege of driving and being with him going fast. Real fast. Went with him with my wife and my kids when they were young. Never once felt unsafe. My dad (and me when I drove) we’re safe, alert and responsible.

After the implementation of the speed limit, he sold his boat.

I am passionate about the issue since most on the wrong side of the issue have never owned a power boat. They really don’t know what they are talking about.

One so-called expert doesn’t define the issue.

Anyway, one thing I know is true - my side lost the battle and the war. Given NH’s demographics, it is unlikely that we’ll have another shot at it.


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And since you did not quote the entirety of my last post I will repeat it.

"And I have taken a screen shot of your venomous assault should this all be scrubbed. And a word of advice. Before it gets scrubbed you might want to issue an apology/mia culpa. And take a screen shot of it. It might be helpful for you down the line."

And the answer to your 2 questions is yes and yes.
Oh yeah and your comment..."It was a joke". Like I alluded to, we now have a great deal of insight into your character.

[Major]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

And since you did not quote the entirety of my last post I will repeat it.

"And I have taken a screen shot of your venomous assault should this all be scrubbed. And a word of advice. Before it gets scrubbed you might want to issue an apology/mia culpa. And take a screen shot of it. It might be helpful for you down the line."

And the answer to your 2 questions is yes and yes.
Oh yeah and..."It was a joke". Like I alluded to, we now have a great deal of insight into your character.

I’m not too worried. Anyone with common sense knows it was a joke.

Anyway, stay cool.


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[Dick52]

Originally Posted by Major

IÂ’m not too worried. Anyone with common sense knows it was a joke.

Anyway, stay cool.


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"Libel is a legal term that refers to a false and malicious statement that is written or published and that harms the reputation of an individual or an organization. Libel is a form of defamation that is intended to cause harm to a person's reputation or character. To prove libel, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the statement was false, caused damage to their reputation, and was published or communicated to at least one other person. In many jurisdictions, a person who is found guilty of libel may be required to pay damages or face other legal penalties."

Doubt it much matters if you intended it as a joke your words are you words.

I think your ship is sunk!

[LikeLakes]

Sunset, you are the one that can't seem to stay on topic and debate the subject. Either you know Major was using his post to simply make a point about people making assumptions, or if not please re-read it to understand. He was saying "assuming towels are flying around every boat is the same as assuming a person testifying is a flawed individual", to paraphrase and explain it.

Debating a speed limit vote simply does not have to get venomous and personal. You seem very angry, while Major seems to be calmly and consistently making his points based on how he feels about the subject.

[Major]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Sunset, you are the one that can't seem to stay on topic and debate the subject. Either you know Major was using his post to simply make a point about people making assumptions, or if not please re-read it to understand. He was saying "assuming towels are flying around every boat is the same as assuming a person testifying is a flawed individual", to paraphrase and explain it.

Debating a speed limit vote simply does not have to get venomous and personal. You seem very angry, while Major seems to be calmly and consistently making his points based on how he feels about the subject.

Thank you, Like. A voice of reason and sanity. A lot has been said about my character. I can tell you one thing, I would never go on a forum and threaten litigation or to destroy someone's life over a silly argument and a stupid joke.

[Biggd]

Where's John when you need him?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Sunset, you are the one that can't seem to stay on topic and debate the subject. Either you know Major was using his post to simply make a point about people making assumptions, or if not please re-read it to understand. He was saying "assuming towels are flying around every boat is the same as assuming a person testifying is a flawed individual", to paraphrase and explain it.

Debating a speed limit vote simply does not have to get venomous and personal. You seem very angry, while Major seems to be calmly and consistently making his points based on how he feels about the subject.

Thanks for explaining this to those on here that seemingly can’t comprehend what Major’s point was. Some people just love looking for a fight, and I love the Perry Mason wannabes. Hysterical!

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Dick52

"Libel is a legal term that refers to a false and malicious statement that is written or published and that harms the reputation of an individual or an organization. Libel is a form of defamation that is intended to cause harm to a person's reputation or character. To prove libel, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the statement was false, caused damage to their reputation, and was published or communicated to at least one other person. In many jurisdictions, a person who is found guilty of libel may be required to pay damages or face other legal penalties."

Doubt it much matters if you intended it as a joke your words are you words.

I think your ship is sunk!

As Major knows, he is safe. The requisite intent is lacking to prove libel. Sunset’s screenshot gambit was a first for the forum, I think. I suspect Major’s boots are almost done shaking by now. ��


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Major

Geez, lighten up, Francis!! It was a joke! Although my point is valid in that the testifier loses credibility by categorizing all fast boater as distracted, booze guzzling novices. I have time now, and this issue is important. I have a few questions for you. Do you even own a power boat? Have you ever gone fast in a power boat? I have owned power boats most of my adult life. Not fast ones, just family boats. My dad owned boats that would do 60+ MPH for 40 years. His last boat was an Eliminator Daytona 27. It would do 85-90 depending on the wind and the chop. (Interesting fact: you go faster into a slight chop and wind than with the chop and wind.) Anyway, I had the privilege of driving and being with him going fast. Real fast. Went with him with my wife and my kids when they were young. Never once felt unsafe. My dad (and me when I drove) we’re safe, alert and responsible. After the implementation of the speed limit, he sold his boat. I am passionate about the issue since
most on the wrong side of the issue have never owned a power boat. They really don’t know what they are talking about. One so-called expert doesn’t define the issue. Anyway, one thing I know is true - my side lost the battle and the war. Given NH’s demographics, it is unlikely that we’ll have another shot at it.

The last memorable person to take your side ran their boat into an island. The collision with shoreline was speedy enough to kill a passenger and to have their boat's anchor fly off their deck to impact a residence.

That island marks the northern border of your proposed race course.

Is it possible that a year of "punishing" night-times in jail was sufficient to propose again a race course through the middle of Lake Winnipesaukee?

Or did such a light sentence steel the resolve of us "Winnipesaukee Boaters Against Fatalities" into opposition?

[Major]

Originally Posted by ApS

The last memorable person to take your side ran their boat into an island. The collision with shoreline was speedy enough to kill a passenger and to have their boat's anchor fly off their deck to impact a residence.

That island marks the northern border of your proposed race course.

Is it possible that a year of "punishing" night-times in jail was sufficient to propose again a race course through the middle of Lake Winnipesaukee?

Or did such a light sentence steel the resolve of us "Winnipesaukee Boaters Against Fatalities" into opposition?

I am in no way mitigating or devaluing the severity of the incident, but speed in and of itself was not the reason for the accident. She was going approximately 25 MPH which is now the speed limit at night. Obviously had she been going slower the result may have been different.

Nor was speed the reason for the other famous Meredith Bay fatality.

The only fatality on Lake Winnipesaukee in which speed may have been a factor was back in the 1970s or 1980s in which a speed boat hit Little Island at night. However, I think alcohol may have been the primary cause for the accident.


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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Major

I am in no way mitigating or devaluing the severity of the incident, but speed in and of itself was not the reason for the accident. She was going approximately 25 MPH which is now the speed limit at night.

Just a minor correction….the speed limit at night is 30 mph…

Dan

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Man...you are really on thin ice and totally out of line. Slandering someone who is, in addition to being a professional mariner, a well respected person in his community. Have you no shame? Was this kind of behavior tolerated in the U.S. Army? Would this kind of talk make your Army buddies proud? Are these the lengths you feel you must resort to to prove your point? A man who writes a thorough and thoughtful description of his professional duties and the best you can do is throw out a wild and untrue accusation to try to shore up your poorly conceived opinion of the need for a speed limit. And given that his testimony is a matter of public record such that someone could look it up and mistakenly assume what you allege is correct? You have certainly given us all a vivid insight into your true character. You need to be a bit more circumspect of what you put out there on the public domain. SHAME ON YOU.

And I have taken a screen shot of your venomous assault should this all be scrubbed. And a word of advice. Before it gets scrubbed you might want to issue an apology/mia culpa. And take a screen shot of it. It might be helpful for you down the line.

Good lord, go read a book or something.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Good lord, go read a book or something.

Do you condone Major slandering said mariner?

[Major]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Do you condone Major slandering said mariner?

It’s not slander. Slander is by word of mouth. Libel is written. If you are going to play amateur lawyer at least get the terms right.


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[Dick52]

Originally Posted by Major

It’s not slander. Slander is by word of mouth. Libel is written. If you are going to play amateur lawyer at least get the terms right.


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Why you would ever say something like that over a silly conversation that is now MOOT....the speed limit stands. You lose. Case closed...well maybe except for you. Might be a whole new case for you. Good luck who knows maybe a Judge will find you a funny guy/gal or whoever behind your screen name and they will only make you pay a small amount in damages, plus legal fees.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Dick52

Why you would ever say something like that over a silly conversation that is now MOOT....the speed limit stands. You lose. Case closed...well maybe except for you. Might be a whole new case for you. Good luck who knows maybe a Judge will find you a funny guy/gal or whoever behind your screen name and they will only make you pay a small amount in damages, plus legal fees.

Everyone needs to lighten up. I don’t know who the individual is who made the statement. I never heard the statement before today. The person’s name was left blank. Had his name been there I would not have made the joke. To the extent it matters I have no knowledge or no ill will against this person.


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