No Wake Restriction?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

Don't the dam people take into account that waves--but especially wakes--are leaching-out chemicals from wood treatments in the lake's thousands of docks?

Besides Thompson's, shouldn't that concern include copper arsenate (CCA) from older wooden docks?

Here:



Or here:

http://npic.orst.edu/faq/cca.html#:~...ood%20products.

I've never seen so many smaller fish floating.

Agreed. Of course, that also means those lucky enough to own docks should be building them with aluminum, cedar, and ipe--not pressure treated wood. It's not just waves, but also rain and age that causes leaching

[John Mercier]

Older PT would already be leached out.
They haven't offered it locally for many years now.

[LIforrelaxin]

Not sure why this conversation is in this thread... But I am going to share my 2 cents....

1st aluminum docks aren't necessarily the answer, people would think they are...

2nd the preservatives used in newer pressure treated wood have changed.

3rd there are much worse issues facing the lake, then this....

The over use of this body of water for recreation purposes is becoming very evident, I have seen many changes in my 35 years or so on the lake. The biggest issue is over development..... Am i indicating the the lake is in jeopardy... no The lake will survive, but it is going to change because of the environment around it... To try and point the finger at anyone thing is ridiculous.....the best label is over development..... it happens everywhere it is not surprising....

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Not sure why this conversation is in this thread... But I am going to share my 2 cents....

1st aluminum docks aren't necessarily the answer, people would think they are...

2nd the preservatives used in newer pressure treated wood have changed.

3rd there are much worse issues facing the lake, then this....

The over use of this body of water for recreation purposes is becoming very evident, I have seen many changes in my 35 years or so on the lake. The biggest issue is over development..... Am i indicating the the lake is in jeopardy... no The lake will survive, but it is going to change because of the environment around it... To try and point the finger at anyone thing is ridiculous.....the best label is over development..... it happens everywhere it is not surprising....

As I have said before the lake is being loved to Death !

[tis]

If you're worried about overdevelopment, you'd better worry about the hundreds of boats mooring with 30 people in each boat.

[Biggd]

Never a dull moment on the forum.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Older PT would already be leached out.
They haven't offered it locally for many years now.

I just stumbled on my dock's building permit. It was built in 1987.

...And have yet to replace a single plank!

However, the pressure of 35 winters' ice floes has splintered many a 6"x8" crossmember.

Not addressed was Thompson's Water Sealer and the many dead Sunfish.

Wakes are definitely an increasing problem--and not just to erosion. Can you explain this boulder's positioning in this earlier picture?

https://indepthnh.org/2023/08/13/wol...investigation/

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Agreed. Of course, that also means those lucky enough to own docks should be building them with aluminum, cedar, and ipe--not pressure treated wood. It's not just waves, but also rain and age that causes leaching

Alaskan Yellow Cedar decking is now priced very competitive with PT, so worth the upgrade if someone needs some soon.

Also saw a product called MillBoard. They will be manning a booth at our two local events, so we can learn more about that product. Looks promising, though more in line with the cost of high end Trex or Azek.

[tis]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Agreed. Of course, that also means those lucky enough to own docks should be building them with aluminum, cedar, and ipe--not pressure treated wood. It's not just waves, but also rain and age that causes leaching

Except that they did change the formula for pressure treated quite a few years ago, so it does not have the same danger-supposedly-that it did. I personally would never use real wood outside ever again.

[John Mercier]

They removed the arsenic.
Not really a problem for us in New England as its primary purpose was to stop termites that actually consume the wood.

Thompson's Water Sealer shouldn't cause any more ''fish kill'' than any other stain/sealer used over the water.

The problem with Thompson's, like other clear sealers, is that it would need to be applied annually. Best to have removable docks for those products.

[ApS]

Over time, small amounts of chemicals may leach from CCA-treated timber, but research has found that the amount of leached arsenic is less than that found in common foods.

(Emphasis on natural leaching, not immersed leaching).

Thompson's will "bead" rainwater for about two years. Its been several years since I last did any treatment, and probably treated the dock only three times in its 35 years. Annual sealing has sequestered huge amounts of preservatives all over the lake.

I think the small dead fish problem was due to the overwhelming quantity of preservatives released rather suddenly in response to this year's high water extremes. (Immersing treated docks underwater). Lawn chemicals shouldn't be overlooked.

Trying to keep the lake "deep" in Autumn points to heavy development in the shallow parts of the lake. (And the oversized deep-vee "big-money" boats recently introduced).

Originally Posted by tis

Except that they did change the formula for pressure treated quite a few years ago, so it does not have the same danger-supposedly-that it did. I personally would never use real wood outside ever again.

The Libby Museum dock was recently covered with Trex (plastic "artificial" wood). One winter's ice warped the new dock in its entirety. Trex is not the strongest material--not the coolest material--nor is it cheap, nor free of fossil fuel content.

Using 2"x8" treated yellow pine planking adds great strength to resist Mother Nature's Winter Wrath--and it's renewable!

[John Mercier]

We use independent testing as the stated lifetime generally doesn't work for us.

Clear - including Thompson - about 1 year. Semi-transparent about two/three years. Semi-solid about three/four. Solid about five. Tested on horizontal surfaces in mid NY State. Annual applications with oil help fill the void created by evaporation of the water content. Without filling those voids the lumber will wick water back in speeding decay.

I used marine grade Penofin for years... and I'm not in a waterfront situation.

Other than that... you will get graying, fiber breakdown, and will need to brighten (which is much worse for the lake). The chemistry of the oil based sealer/stains is lighter hydrocarbons, and should have no more effect on the lake than powerboats. It floats on the surface and evaporates into the air.

Trex is mostly recycled plastic and sawdust with a nylon coating.
It has several levels of quality... but none of them should ''warp''. So they may want to put in for a warranty claim.

[ApS]

Those of us who stay after the season may see a "bathtub ring" of leached contaminants on boulders around the lake. (Which is added to the usual contaminants added by fossil fuels, outboard and I/O gearcase greases, sunken boats, cranes lost overboard from barges, and suntan oils).

A photograph of previous "bathtub rings" corresponding to spring (and summer) contaminants was added to the forum in 2006:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...9&postcount=16

Keeping the lake overfull surely has consequences.

Originally Posted by Biggd

Never a dull moment on the forum.

Member tis is likely referring to the pontoon boats who raft in formerly quiet and clean coves around the lake. (I've seen the "ladder-dip" too).

"Greater" Winter Harbor has become too rough with wakes to support rafting.

What are we swimming in, anyway?