How safe is downtown Laconia?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

There is nothing "by the book" about Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes.

If you believe that those policing tactics are lawful, produce an official manual from any PD that says so.

Note: I am not defending Floyd and his history of criminal behavior.

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

Then Chauvin had a terrible lawyer and that should be blamed on Chauvin.
Our Jury System isn't perfect... but it is the best the world has to offer.

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Then Chauvin had a terrible lawyer and that should be blamed on Chauvin.
Our Jury System isn't perfect... but it is the best the world has to offer.

His lawyer could have performed better, but the system was stacked against him. The court did not want to hear the defense. So much of the defense's evidence was not introduced in trial. Plus, even if the jury thought he was innocent, they were being outed and would have had their own homes burned down if they came to a different conclusion. We've seen lots and lots of recent litigations that begged for changes in venue, this one demanded it. Have you seen the documentary?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Major

His lawyer could have performed better, but the system was stacked against him. The court did not want to hear the defense. So much of the defense's evidence was not introduced in trial. Plus, even if the jury thought he was innocent, they were being outed and would have had their own homes burned down if they came to a different conclusion. We've seen lots and lots of recent litigations that begged for changes in venue, this one demanded it. Have you seen the documentary?

No. I don't focus on other areas.

I seldom focus on NH as a whole... but realize that the power of what can be done locally is usually a factor of the Legislature and its decisions.

But that isn't what is effecting the amount of labor that we have in the area.
For Laconia, you'd be better off becoming a Public Works employee... go for a CDL, and then take a position in local private businesses that pay even more than you could make as a LEO.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by Major

You really need to watch the documentary. It was by the book. It is how police are taught to restrain an uncooperative (to put it mildly) suspect. His knee was NOT on his neck. The autopsy confirmed no restriction of blood flow caused by the hold contributed to his death. The first autopsy opined that fentanyl most likely caused death. Floyd was a physical mess and most likely would have died from the stress of the situation. Again, watch the documentary.

No offense, but do you need glasses? I've watched the video plenty and his knee absolutely was on the back of Floyd's neck.

And even if I agreed with your POV that he wasn't kneeling on his neck, the man could have been cuffed and immobilized moments after the officer was on top of him. Not 9 minutes.

Chauvin screwed up big time and now he's paying the price. We don't need that kind of cop or policing in our society.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

No offense, but do you need glasses? I've watched the video plenty and his knee absolutely was on the back of Floyd's neck.

And even if I agreed with your POV that he wasn't kneeling on his neck, the man could have been cuffed and immobilized moments after the officer was on top of him. Not 9 minutes.

Chauvin screwed up big time and now he's paying the price. We don't need that kind of cop or policing in our society.

You obviously have not seen the entire 25+ minute video or the documentary. Until you see these there is no point arguing with you. (BTW, at the beginning of the video, Floyd was handcuffed and immobilized in the police car, but was acting like a lunatic, so they removed him from the car.)

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by Major

You obviously have not seen the entire 25+ minute video or the documentary. Until you see these there is no point arguing with you. (BTW, at the beginning of the video, Floyd was handcuffed and immobilized in the police car, but was acting like a lunatic, so they removed him from the car.)

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

As they say, without facts and data you’re just another person with an opinion!


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[Mr. V]

I've sympathy for people who are homeless due to bad breaks, e.g. loss of job, divorce: but I've zero sympathy for those who are homeless due to addiction to hard drugs, e.g. meth and / or fentanyl.

Can we all agree that there is no real benefit, either to them or to society, while they are getting wasted and homeless?

If so...how to effectively address the problem?

The so-called "War on Drugs" didn't do it, and decriminalizing it has been an epic failure here in Portland, Oregon.

Ultimately the government will need to force these people into some form of involuntary treatment and rehab program, and I fear that our liberal interpretation of our "liberty interest" from the Constitution may prevent this.

Perhaps the right test case to the USSC would bear fruit?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I've sympathy for people who are homeless due to bad breaks, e.g. loss of job, divorce: but I've zero sympathy for those who are homeless due to addiction to hard drugs, e.g. meth and / or fentanyl.

Can we all agree that there is no real benefit, either to them or to society, while they are getting wasted and homeless?

If so...how to effectively address the problem?

The so-called "War on Drugs" didn't do it, and decriminalizing it has been an epic failure here in Portland, Oregon.

Ultimately the government will need to force these people into some form of involuntary treatment and rehab program, and I fear that our liberal interpretation of our "liberty interest" from the Constitution may prevent this.

Perhaps the right test case to the USSC would bear fruit?

We have always had that interpretation... it isn't considered liberal.

They don't even need to be addicted to ''hard'' drugs.
Someone that drinks obsessively... and that is a very low level of consumption... spends money toward something that puts their license and livelihood at risk. The number of people that I know that have lost their license astounds me.
The number of people addicted to nicotine... again astounds me.
And if you watch rental adds, no smokers and no pets are the number one restrictions.
Even with pets, I have watched people try to choose the pet over their own well being.

And how many homeowners with a large unexpected repair would be able to foot the bill and not start down the path to ruin?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

I guess I could turn it around on you. Show me a handbook, rule or regulation that says 9 minutes is excessive. I am not an expert on law enforcement, but I suspect it’s based on a reasonableness standard. In light of Floyd’s behavior prior to being detained by Chauvin, certainly his actions could be considered reasonable.

Most (no all) of the people I know who actually saw the documentary think Chauvin got a raw deal, so I guess we’re even.


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[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

I can also say, until you produce me a handbook stating that Chauvin's actions for those 9 minutes was "by the book", it's of little point discussing this with you further. The onus is on you to back up your claim with proof.

That proof is not some documentary that likely has a tremendous amount of bias. Who made it? Project Veritas?

What happened outside of those 9 minutes does not matter. Floyd could have had his wrists and legs cuffed rendering him immobilized once Chauvin was on top of him and controlled. There were 3 other officers that could have applied that restraint while Chauvin had him pinned. Period. End of story.

Chauvin absolutely screwed up and deserves what he got. I have a half dozen relatives in law enforcement and they all say the same.

Well I guess that’s that. The “Period” AND “End of story” doctrines have both been invoked. Q.E.D.


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