An update on Camp Menotomy & other issues...

[BroadHopper]

If I remember correctly, Camp Samoset had a trust that states 'to be use for recreational purposes for Jewish boys'. Somehow the lawyers were able to break the trust and thus Samoset condominiums were born. Further research shows if the land was under conservatorship such as Belknap Conservatory Trust or LRCT it would not have happen. A good reason why my family choose to place the Ramblin' Vewe Farm under Belknap Trust umbrella.

The old Phil Roux property on top of Cotton Hill Road was also willed not to be subdivided, but scrupulous lawyers did exactly that!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

If I remember correctly, Camp Samoset had a trust that states 'to be use for recreational purposes for Jewish boys'. Somehow the lawyers were able to break the trust and thus Samoset condominiums were born. Further research shows if the land was under conservatorship such as Belknap Conservatory Trust or LRCT it would not have happen. A good reason why my family choose to place the Ramblin' Vewe Farm under Belknap Trust umbrella.

The old Phil Roux property on top of Cotton Hill Road was also willed not to be subdivided, but scrupulous lawyers did exactly that!

This is a great point about LRCT and other land trusts. What the Girl Scouts are doing is just disgusting, so obviously outside of the donor's intention. If you want to donate land, you really need to get a land trust involved

[fatlazyless]

Facebook has a May 18, 2026 video meme by Granite Post on the 95-acre Camp Menotomy property expressing concern and outrage over the possibility of it becoming seven luxury waterfront homes.

I drive by it all the time and nothing is actually happening there. The gate is locked, the trees, land, woods, water are untouched and it's become a very happy home for all the deer, ducks, wild turkey, turtles, and black bears. The yellow no trespassing signs are worn out from time and weather.

Have not checked the www.mernia.org website lately?

April 30, 2026: http://www.indepthnh.org/2026/04/30/...being-opposed/ by Paula Tracy ...... a ton of info on this Camp Menotomy, 95-acre, former Girl Scout camp property located way down the Meredith neck on beautiful untouched shoreline of Lake Winnipesaukee, NH.

[pondguy]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2bf1d937b.html

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by pondguy

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2bf1d937b.html

The Girl Scouts assert that we can reduce the value of a summer camp down to dollars and cents. If they were a hedge fund, we'd call them greedy pigs. That they do this while hiding behind their merit badges and Norman Rockwell branding makes it even worse

[Garcia]

I'm not a fan of a for profit camp going in. An established non profit, maybe. I question the economic viability of any camp unless it is a for profit charging market rates. For a camp to be viable I see it needing major changes to the waterfront to allow for dock(s) swimming area, canoes, sailboats, water sports, etc. so the shoreline will have to change. Infrastructure will need to be added. Additionally, traffic will increase significantly on pick-up and drop off days.

On the flip side, establishing a handful of high end lots also dramatically changes the shoreline.

In short, unless someone like LRCT buys it and preserves it as is, change is inevitable. The question is, which is best for the area and the lake in general. I don't think there is an easy answer.

[Little Bear]

It's also important to look beyond the surface and to develop an understanding of the characters in this production.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I'm not a fan of a for profit camp going in. An established non profit, maybe. I question the economic viability of any camp unless it is a for profit charging market rates.

You seem to say that you are not in favor of for profit, but that for profit is the only viable operator. Are you just shy about saying you are not in favor of any camp?

On viability, I do not know your background, so forgive me if you are expert in camp operations/economics. But it appears we have a qualified camp operator who has offered both for profit and non profit proposals, including cap ex. Maybe he knows more than randos like us sitting at home? Also, the YMCA, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and others operate successful non profit camps all over the country.

Having grown up going to Boy Scout camps, it pains me to see a camp that hundreds of kids treasure every year get sold to 7 dudes from Mass (and I'm a dude from Mass)

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You seem to say that you are not in favor of for profit, but that for profit is the only viable operator. Are you just shy about saying you are not in favor of any camp?

On viability, I do not know your background, so forgive me if you are expert in camp operations/economics. But it appears we have a qualified camp operator who has offered both for profit and non profit proposals, including cap ex. Maybe he knows more than randos like us sitting at home? Also, the YMCA, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and others operate successful non profit camps all over the country.

Having grown up going to Boy Scout camps, it pains me to see a camp that hundreds of kids treasure every year get sold to 7 dudes from Mass (and I'm a dude from Mass)

To be clear, I'm not opposed to a camp, I'd love to see one continue there. My hesitation is specifically around the financial viability of a for-profit model given the capital investment required, not camps as a concept.

You're right that I'm no expert in camp economics, and if a qualified operator has put together a credible proposal, for-profit or nonprofit, that accounts for the cap ex, that carries real weight.

My original point was really that nonprofits have a structural advantage precisely because of fundraising capacity, grants, and donor support, which can offset what would otherwise be crushing infrastructure costs for a for-profit operator. The YMCA and Scouts examples are good ones, those organizations survive in part because they can absorb capital costs in ways a private business can't.

But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture: the current Girl Scouts model isn't working. The property is worth $18 million, and the real question isn't just camp vs. no camp. It's recognizing the current model isn’t working, so what approach best preserves the shoreline and allows the Arlington Girl Scouts to get the most benefit from what is ultimately their asset? Seven houses and millions or an expanded camp that pays an annual rent? Personally, I'd love to see that undeveloped shoreline stay that way, but is that a realistic outcome without a financially sustainable plan behind it?

So no, I'm not being coy about opposing any camp. I genuinely hope it works out. I just want whatever model moves forward to be financially sound enough that it's still running for the next generation of kids not shuttered in five years because the numbers didn't pencil out.

And for what it's worth, the "7 dudes from Mass" concern is a fair one. Look no further than the house going up by Y-Landing; I’m not a fan and it runs counter to my experiences on the lake I have been fortunate to enjoy for 59 seasons (and yes, I too am a MA resident). Continuity of community connection matters for something like this.

[John Mercier]

A for-profit can be done and be viable. Just might need to be a bit more elite and offer a little more that might change that shoreline anyways.

The problem is the wording of the proposal.
If stated that it may be for-profit or non-profit paints a picture that the proposal is not well thought through at this point.

[fatlazyless]

What can you do to support a youth summer camp at this 95-acre former Camp Menotomy,, Lake Winnipesaukee location down the Meredith neck opposite Bear Island?

www.mernia.org/camp-menotomy-talking-pts

www.mernia.org/camp-menotomy-to-dos

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

The Girl Scouts assert that we can reduce the value of a summer camp down to dollars and cents. If they were a hedge fund, we'd call them greedy pigs. That they do this while hiding behind their merit badges and Norman Rockwell branding makes it even worse

Quite a bit of fiduciary responsibility gets reduced down to dollars and cents.

[Mr. V]

Greed versus Need.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Quite a bit of fiduciary responsibility gets reduced down to dollars and cents.

Fiduciary, of course, is one of the finance bros favorite terms to misuse. The Girl Scouts (or the legal owner) have a fiduciary duty to the estate of the donor to honor their intentions, even when those intentions conflict with the interests of the Girl Scouts.

(BTW, if we took your definition of fiduciary, no gift restrictions would ever be honored past the point at which the recipient wanted to maximize cash without regard for restrictions)

Sorry if these last two posts are kind of heated--this whole thing just enrages me. Camps are a disappearing treasure

[Major]

I think the decline of camps is more of a demand issue rather than a supply issue. Kids today have no interest in anything that is social. Our firm hires young people and they have no interest in socializing, whether with fellow employees or clients. I would have champed at the bit to go with a partner and a client to a Celtics or Bruins game or to go golfing with a client. Kids have no interest in these activities. The worst offenders are those in their thirties. I see some hope with the real youngsters, early- to mid-twenties. They seem to enjoy coming to the office.

And then there are parents. It's hard to helicopter your kid when he or she is away at a camp. I guess the cost factors in too, but camps have always been expensive for low income to lower income families.

Either way, it seems that the days of camps is a bygone era together with cottage colonies, lakeside cottages and candlepin bowling.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I think the decline of camps is more of a demand issue rather than a supply issue. Kids today have no interest in anything that is social. Our firm hires young people and they have no interest in socializing, whether with fellow employees or clients. I would have champed at the bit to go with a partner and a client to a Celtics or Bruins game or to go golfing with a client. Kids have no interest in these activities. The worst offenders are those in their thirties. I see some hope with the real youngsters, early- to mid-twenties. They seem to enjoy coming to the office.

And then there are parents. It's hard to helicopter your kid when he or she is away at a camp. I guess the cost factors in too, but camps have always been expensive for low income to lower income families.

Either way, it seems that the days of camps is a bygone era together with cottage colonies, lakeside cottages and candlepin bowling.

I don't this is at all accurate. My experience—as a Scouting leader (and parent to recent Eagle Scout recipient ) and high-end summer school teacher/administrator (supplemental, not remedial)—is that there are simply too many options to choose from these days.

When I started teaching summer school, there were a couple other alternatives in the area. Now, almost every school offers a summer program and there are multiple athletic camps, gaming and programming camps, Lego and design camps, etc.

When I was a kid, I literally didn't know anyone else going to a single, never mind multi, week camp.

Add to that school athletics, band camps, etc. and I think—not unlike it is with old vacation resorts floundering—it's about market saturation.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I don't this is at all accurate. My experience—as a Scouting leader (and parent to recent Eagle Scout recipient ) and high-end summer school teacher/administrator (supplemental, not remedial)—is that there are simply too many options to choose from these days.

When I started teaching summer school, there were a couple other alternatives in the area. Now, almost every school offers a summer program and there are multiple athletic camps, gaming and programming camps, Lego and design camps, etc.

When I was a kid, I literally didn't know anyone else going to a single, never mind multi, week camp.

Add to that school athletics, band camps, etc. and I think—not unlike it is with old vacation resorts floundering—it's about market saturation.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Social clubs are feeling the pinch also, Elks, Sons of Italy, VFW, Moose, and all the rest are feeling the effects of social distancing. I belong to the French American club. it's been struggling for years, almost closing during Covid. It's very difficult to attract young people today.
Also, most of these clubs own their property outright and are tempted with multi million dollars offers on a regular basis. It's an easy out when you're losing money!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I don't this is at all accurate. My experience—as a Scouting leader (and parent to recent Eagle Scout recipient )

Congratulations! My grandfather, oldest son, and I are Eagles

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Fiduciary, of course, is one of the finance bros favorite terms to misuse. The Girl Scouts (or the legal owner) have a fiduciary duty to the estate of the donor to honor their intentions, even when those intentions conflict with the interests of the Girl Scouts.

(BTW, if we took your definition of fiduciary, no gift restrictions would ever be honored past the point at which the recipient wanted to maximize cash without regard for restrictions)

Sorry if these last two posts are kind of heated--this whole thing just enrages me. Camps are a disappearing treasure

https://indepthnh.org/2026/04/30/sal...being-opposed/

That document, in part, reads:
“In the event that the time comes when there shall be no organization known as the Arlington Girl Scouts, or the same organization under a different name, or any successor organization of like purposes in Arlington to utilize the site for camping purposes, then the trustees by unanimous consent may sell the property herein-above conveyed, together with all personal property then in the hands of the trustees, for such price, upon such terms and to such person, persons or organization as may to them seem proper”

The fiduciaries have a problem. Without a successor organization of like purposes in Arlington to utilized the site for camping purposes, the above moves to sale of the property, not rental.

Since those proposing to keep it a camp are not "in Arlington" or the same organization under a different name.
The grantor's wish is for a sale with the proceeds directed back to Arlington.

So from what I read, it comes down to whether those proposing keeping it as a camp are willing to offer enough for the Board to feel they are meeting their fiduciary obligation to make the best long term deal for their benefactors.

The interest of Meredith and surrounding property owners being no where in the grantor's wishes.