Watch Out for the Marine Patrol

[Skipper]

It is interesting to read the discussion about the MP and what is considered an official stop. I applaud McKeown (the kayaker) for standing up for his (our) rights. Sorry to disagree with Skip. I think it is a good check and balance. I think he made a poor choice by not having a PFD in the kayak but he does have a right to be wrong. MP officer Cook should also be praised for not spinning the story of the events and for his help in draining and righting a tipped kayak. OK, Here is my issue with this event:

from the Concord Monitor Online

... However, McKeown's kayak tipped over, at least in part from the wake caused by Cook's approaching boat. ...

That part of the story jumped right out at me. The wake from MP officer Cook's boat was part or the reason the kayak tipped over. MP swamped the kayak in the name of a safety check. Is the Marine Patrol exempt from responsibility for the wake they make (specially in a non-emergency situation)?

I would love to see more Marine Patrol activity around the lake. Like others here, I too see more well behaved boaters when the MP are in sight. When they are out of view it is a different situation with many boaters. Like automobile violations. You don't do them when you see the police cars are around, do you? If you have ever been a (land) driving violator, when did/do you usually break the law (speeding, illegal turns, parking, crossing the solid lines, illegal passing and such)? When the cops or MP are NOT in sight. Cars/boats same type of driving habits but not the same situations and consequences. Unfortunately, while one patrol boat is busy with a boat stop, other boaters get away with violations.

Back to this story. The actions of the MP officer is questionable IMO because his method of operation helped cause the kayak to tip over. What would we be talking about if that action lead to the kayaker drowning? Yeh he should have had a life jacket from a legal and practical standpoint. But the MP officer should have been more careful of his wake. I think that is also an important component of this particular story.

As Skip indicated, it is a fine line officers have to walk and none of us are perfect. Not citizens, not law enforcement persons. We must also stand up for each and every right we have as citizens so as to not gradually let our freedoms erode.

Lets us ALL boat safely all the time

Skipper

____________________________
ignorance by law enforcement officers should not be excused

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by Skipper

That part of the story jumped right out at me. The wake from MP officer Cook's boat was part or the reason the kayak tipped over. MP swamped the kayak in the name of a safety check. Is the Marine Patrol exempt from responsibility for the wake they make (specially in a non-emergency situation)?

I think it is atrocious that the patrol boat wake rocked the kayak so much that it tipped. How is that justified? Loads of debate about the decision of the judges but only one mention in all this about the patrol boat wake. Even if they gave him a ticket for no PFD the Marine Patrol should consider itself lucky the guy didn't sue them for contributing to the swamping of his boat. Does this happen often? Are there boating mishaps that are caused by Marine Patrol?

A lot of discussion about the intent of the law and protection of citizen's rights. Those in law enforcement generally seem to look askew at anyone exercising their rights in lieu of full cooperation. We are required to show ID when asked to do so by law enforcement but when do they have the right to ask? We do not live in a police state.

Originally Posted by Skip

Ask the officer who just stopped you if you are being detained. Maybe right after he asks for your operator license & boat registration.

Sure if an officer just stopped you you are being detained. Detained = stopped. They are the same in this instance. Can you leave before the officer sayss OK? You can try but I think that invites further scrutiny at the least or could even lead to an arrest. Officers can usually find some reason to justify a stop to their superiors. Ask a professional, like a lawyer specializing in criminal law, what to do when stopped for routine questioning (like vehicle stops) or other types of questioning. Know your rights and how and when to use them.

Having rights does not mean it is always wise to use them.


Sandy

[madrasahs]

"New Hampshire Marine Patrol Officer Wesley Cook noticed many canoes, kayaks and water bikes in the northwest part of the lake on Aug. 31, 2002. Cook piloted his marked Marine Patrol boat in that direction to conduct checks for personal floatation devices aboard those boats..."

McKeown's testimony appears to state that the MP was in part responsible for "swamping" the kayak. McKeown's tesimony has some very suspect wording, IMO, even though this was likely sworn testimony -- "under oath":

Kayaks are relatively stabile craft that are used in whitewater conditions -- even high waterfalls. Kayakers practice rolling their kayaks for such extreme conditions (e.g., "The Pawlata Roll").

McKeown's brother was alongside, also in a kayak, and didn't "swamp". Usually a wake sufficient to "swamp" is produced by a large passing boat. Kayaks have huge flotation areas fore and aft and are difficult to "swamp" in the first place.

Cook used the word "piloted" to indicate a careful approach. I believe Cook's testimony.

Was McKeown kayaking (for pleasure)...or trolling (for publicity)?

[Skip]

Geesh Madrasahs,

We have found an area we are in total agreement on!

Not bad for a couple of old geezers with issues...

But don't worry folks, I'm sure we'll soon be at loggerheads again!

Have a great day,

Skip