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#2 |
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Let's hope they put their focus on school funding.
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#3 |
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It is a standard speculatory post-election piece.
They didn't quote anyone as saying these things including speed limits are back on the front burner. They just listed items that failed in the last legislative session. What Lynch did say is that his priorities are education, health care and jobs. And since PBR wrote that he saw an interview in which he believed Lynch was leaning against speed limits and Lynch said that on his most recent trip to Winnipesaukee is was lack of enforcement of 150' rule that got his attention, I wouldn't get out the crying towels yet. |
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#4 |
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Good points Airwaves, but I think the speculation was derived by the WMUR political reporter (Scott Spradling) as he spoke to many of the candidates yesterday.
In my particular case, I spent 15 hours yesterday doing my annual civic duty as Ward Moderator in my particular NH city. During that long day I spent much of the day conversing with a great number of local statehouse democrats that eventually went on to win last night. One of the issues discussed? The speed limit. The speed limit left a sour taste in many legislators mouths last year, at least according to the legislators I spoke with. My prediction? Some type of general speed limit regulations will be passed in the upcoming legislative session. And I suspect it will be one of the first bills filed for quick action early next year! I suspect we shall see, either way, very soon.... Skip |
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#5 |
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If the Governor's last outing on the lake is the one I'm thinking of, he learned first hand how difficult it is to use radar on the water. He also saw first hand that there are other potential safety problems (which current legislation exists to address) that are more of a genuine concern on the lake. If in fact the Governor's last outing is the one I'm thinking of, then a close friend of mine was at the helm that afternoon. Enough said. Whether or "knot" this will have any final impact on the debate is yet to be seen. One can only hope that common sense will ultimately prevail. I've said it multiple times....educate as opposed to legislate.
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#6 | ||
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SKIP! Congrats on going above and beyond in your civic duty!
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Again, good job in being Ward Moderator, folks like you are the unsung heros of keeping democracy alive! |
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#7 |
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This was on WMUR's website.
For the first time in history, New Hampshire Democrats will be in charge of the governor's office, Executive Council, state House and Senate. Democrats last held the governor's office, House and Senate in 1874. In Lynch's previous term, several issues he supported were narrowly defeated. With all decision-making bodies in Democratic control, they now could pass. Some of the measures include a minimum wage increase, speed limits on boats, a ban on smoking in restaurants, erasing parental-consent laws and more money for the Land and Community Heritage Investment Program.
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#8 |
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Again, the WMUR story is a standard speculatory piece. A change in power, what might happen?
As I read it, SIKSUKR implies with his/her post that Lynch supported speed limits in the past. Paugus Bay Resident posted he/she had seen an interview with Lynch that he was neutral (didn't care one way or the other) but had visited Winnipesaukee and noted that laws on the books were not being enforced. Be vigilant, and make your case. IMHO we have new reps and senators who may or may not know the issues. Who gets to them first plays a big role in what might happen. Good luck and good hunting! |
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#9 |
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Airwaves,I did not mean to imply what Lynch would support.I have no idea what his position is on the bill.I just copied some of the article form the website.
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#10 |
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"Not only do Democrats have the daunting task of running the House for the first time in nearly a century, they have to do it with nearly half of their members having no legislative experience."
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#11 | |
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winnilaker quoting the Union Leader:
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#12 |
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New Hampshire House of Representatives
TRANSPORTATION Committee Mailing List Jim Ryan 11 Cricket Hill Way Franklin, NH 03235-2060 Phone: (603)934-2703 email: jryan@metrocast.net Robert W. Williams 149 East Side Dr #183 Concord, NH 03301-5410 Phone: (603)225-9283 email: robert.williams@leg.state.nh.us Peter R. Cote 68 Bowers Street Nashua, NH 03060-3927 Phone: (603)882-9003 email: N/A Brenda L. Ferland 267 River Road Charlestown, NH 03603-4139 Phone: (603)826-5034 email: N/A Jennifer M. Brown 9 Baldwin Way Dover, NH 03820-4673 Phone: (603)743-0988 email: jennifer.brown@leg.state.nh.us C. Pennington Brown 153 Old Hedding Road #40 Epping, NH 03042-2348 Phone: (603)679-1766 email: penningtonbrown@comcast.net Howard N. Cunningham 358 Wentworth Hill Rd Ctr. Sandwich, NH 03227-3330 Phone: (603)284-7778 email: cunham@worldpath.net Carole J. Estes 77 Pleasant Street Plymouth, NH 03264-1114 Phone: (603)536-1274 email: cestes@makeitplain.com Paul H. Ingersoll Sr. 49 Gordon Avenue Berlin, NH 03570-1006 Phone: (603)752-4754 email: ingyp@earthlink.net Maureen A. Nagle 137 Huse Road Manchester, NH 03103-3000 Phone: (603)622-3047 email: mairin@earthlink.net Michael B. O'Brien Sr. 4 Woodfield Street Nashua, NH 03062-2056 Phone: (603)888-8051 email: obnfd@comcast.net Stephen H. Nedeau PO Box 436 Meredith, NH 03253-0436 Phone: (603)279-4794 email: N/A George N. Katsakiores 1 Bradford Street Derry, NH 03038-4258 Phone: (603)434-9587 email: N/A Sherman A. Packard 70 Old Derry Road Londonderry, NH 03053-2218 Phone: (603)432-3391 email: N/A John W. Flanders Sr. 28 Danville Road Kingston, NH 03848-3406 Phone: (603)642-3640 email: jwflanders@hotmail.com Jean-Guy J. Bergeron 184 Marsh Road Pelham, NH 03076-3354 Phone: (603)635-7005 email: racing71@aol.com Mary M. Allen 39 Pond Street Newton, NH 03858-3415 Phone: (603)382-5665 email: N/A Peter F. Bergin PO Box 6295 Amherst, NH 03031-6295 Phone: (603)673-1885 email: pfbergin@gmail.com David C. Dalrymple 7 Penobscot Avenue Salem, NH 03079-1531 Phone: (603)898-4527 email: N/A |
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#13 |
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Does anyone know the outcome of the meeting? I wasn't able to attend but would have liked to be have been there. I am opposed to the speed limit, and did my part in November by ousting the bills sponsor (at least my part in voting against him). More education and less "Captain boneheads" as stated on other replies is exactly what is called for.
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#14 | ||
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![]() Trying to frame this as a discrimination issue is really ridiculous. Continuously repeating it doesn't make it true. All boats are welcome if they obey the law! Quote:
FYI: The five freedoms guaranteed by the constitution are freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly and petition for redress of grievances. I don't see unlimited speed in there. Oh ya, better use that spell checker for certian[sic]! |
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#15 |
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Boater....
Its obvious from your post that you are in favor of a speed limit bill.... But why stop there? After all, last time I checked boating isn't a right guranteed by the US Constition! Boating is a personal freedom! If you read the accident data from the MP, an argument could be made for eliminating towing tubes, wakeboards and waterskiiers.... after all people DIE doing those activities. Lets go one more step... People get hurt in bow rider type boats all the time... in fact two years ago on Lake Opechee a little girl bounced out of bowrider driven by her father and got hit by the propeller and died! We better outlaw them before another little girl suffers that fate! PWC's & Jetskii's?? Fuggetaboutit.... you'll get killed on one of those! Those are very dangerous machines! People get hurt driving powerboats. Maybe all powerboats should be outlawed?? YUP! Better get rid of 'em! Now were down to canoes & kayaks & sailboats.... but wait, look at the report, people drown operating them all the time. In fact they are statistically the most dangerous watercraft out there... better outlaw them too... When does the insanity end?? According to the US Coast Guard, the average recreational boater uses his boat for 20 days per year, approximately 4 hours each time for a total of 80 hours per year. (This is actually pretty conservative, the Coast Guard number is a bit higher) Here in NH there are over are over 100,000 registered boats! If you do the Math 100,000 boats x 80 hours = 8,000,000 boating hours. This doesn't count canoes, kayaks sailboats and any other unregisterable watercraft. It also doesn't count the number of hours on the water spent by out-of-state registered boats. In over 8,000,000 boating hours there were only 87 accidents!! Thats .0000109 chance, or 1 boating accident for every 100,000 boating hours. Thats a pretty darn good number by anyones standards. Of the 87 accidents, there was one accident that occured over the speed of 50 MPH! ONE! There were 6 collisions between boats and none of those occured at a speed greater than 30 MPH! If you look at the FACTS and not the emotional rhetoric, there is absolutely no basis for a speed limit in NH. Personal Freedoms should be foaught for and cherished, not frittered away by a waterfront fproperty owners special interest group... Woodsy Woodsy
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#16 | |
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The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Just because a right is not listed, doesn't mean you and I don't have it. And Article 2 of the NH Constitution guarantees me a few more rights: All men have certain natural, essential, and inherent rights - among which are, the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting, property; and, in a word, of seeking and obtaining happiness. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by this state on account of race, creed, color, sex or national origin. Now to be fair, Article 3 says that I might have to give up some of those rights: When men enter into a state of society, they surrender up some of their natural rights to that society, in order to ensure the protection of others; and, without such an equivalent, the surrender is void. Which is why you probably cant fight speed limits on constitutional grounds. |
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#17 |
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"Enjoying and defending life and liberty" sounds like perfect constitutional grounds FOR limiting speeders.
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#18 | |
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#19 |
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Interesting debate on the possibility of constitutional ramifications playing in to the speed limit proposal.
However just as there is no constitutional “right” to operate a motor vehicle on a public way there is also no constitutional right to operate a watercraft on publicly owned and controlled waterways. The ability to operate a motor vehicle or a boat upon a way is a privilege controlled by the government. And the government has the ability to grant, revoke and heavily regulate those privilege, much to the chagrin of more than a few! ![]() |
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#20 |
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I laugh to think what the founding fathers would say about some of the uses for which the Constitution has been invoked.
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#21 |
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OK OK..... This is getting way to ridiculous.... THe Constitution????? what are you people thinking about..... I will admit there is plenty to argue about here....but the Constitution has no play here.... You people need to realize one thing a hundred years ago these same arguements where probably being made about those great horseless carriages.... Why? because times where changing and evolution is a scary thing.... but lets face it boating has changed some for the good some for the bad. It is because of the bad that we are in the current situation. Every year the boats get faster... well what we are now seeing is that people are taking a stand on what they feel is fast enough. Just like with cars. And to take a step back the last time there where arguements with boats like this it was over noise polution, and sure enough the law was but on the books, just like it will eventually for this as well... We can either fight it kicking and screaming or we can help shape it. I think the idea of setting up a couple of Trial speed zone this summer is the right thing to do.... And instead of fuss and scream about the injustice of it all everyone should be standing up and telling the transportation committee that the trail zones are the way to go. Then we can see weather or not it is enforcable, and how many people are really going that fast. In short we can let the statistic show us where to go with this. I mean if the MP goes an entire summer and doesn't write any tickets, then well maybe the law isn't so worth while. But if they write several tickets, and they hold up in court, well then that leads us somewhere else. My hope would be that the state finds that they control speed in restricted area of the lake, and therefore just like the roads have speed zones.... and leave areas like the broads wide open.
In short leave the constitution out of this... and be prepared because weather we like it or not there will most likely be a speed limit sooner or later..... (now um just let me say one thing.... I am a speed freak.... and I realize this is comming.... what I hope is to save area's like the Broads.... for all out excitemtent)
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#22 | |
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2) Wolfeboro and the rest of Carroll County is known to be the fastest-growing region in this state in the last decade. 3) New Hampshire continues to grow at 14,000 residents a year—with an increasing number being a crush of retirees to the Lakes Region. Perhaps it is retirees who look askance at the increasing horsepower, size, and speeds of boats today—and a collision in recent memory that took one of their number. From the viewpoint of 50+ years on Lake Winnipesaukee, it was inevitable that the money pouring onto this lake would eventually result in this bill.
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#23 | |
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I may have changed my mind but I'm not a Kool Aid drinker. I understand the safety concerns that many express and won't disregard or insult them. I must say that some of the anti-speed limit posters here and elsewhere really come off as arrogant and selfish and some of their arguments are just nonsense (IMHO). But geez Woodsy, it doesn't take much for you to get up on your soap box and regurgitate the same old hyperbole. Give it a rest! It looks like you are the one getting emotional. My only point was that there are some convincing arguments that can be made against a speed limit. I just think that "discrimination" and "freedom" are not effective ones. |
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#24 |
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When I put fertilizer on my lawn I expect, within a period of time, for my grass to be greener, thicker, and more robust. If my car is making a funny noise and I take it to a mechanic, when I get it back I expect the noise to be gone. When I order a steak medium-well I expect it lightly charred on the outside and pink on the inside.
So if we institute speed limits on the lake what will success look like? We can't measure through accident statistics because there are almost no high speed accidents. We might try to measure the number of speeding tickets issued but if you look at the Lake George (a commonly sited speed limit success story) Marine patrol report for 2005 there were no tickets issued to PWCs for speeds in excess of the 45 MPH limit in 2004 or 2005. None, zip, nada. (There were No Wake speeding violations but that is something we already can do). The report doesn't break out speeding tickets for other types of vessels so we could only speculate about those. So will we see any speeding tickets issued? How many tickets need to be issued before the lake is "safer"? Will we see less congestion, especially around popular areas? Will people who cut us off and ignore safety laws and courtesy now behave better? How will we tell? Will we see "Boy Scout" boats escorting other boats across busy crossing areas? Will the camp swimmers and canoeists be safe in the water with boats going 40 MPH instead of 60 MPH? Will the boats battered by wakes of other boats cutting too close to them now have smooth sailing? Will we also reckon the possible costs? If someone is injured or killed in a reckless skiing or tubing accident will we attribute that cost to the fact that the Marine Patrol was too busy passing out speeding tickets in the Broads to observe the reckless behavior and put a stop to it? As to the constitution, hasn't anyone seen the powerboat clause? ![]() Many of the framers of the constitution were worried about government interfering without just cause. The Bill of Rights and other amendments were established to specify certain important rights but the overall message was for government to keep their hands off. Unfortunately, as time goes by, we cede more and more "rights" to our various governments. I have no problem with a "trial" period and location for speed limit enforcement, especially in areas that most reasonable people would probably be going slow anyway. However, what is a "successful trial"?? And how would success in the trial lead to? ![]() |
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#25 |
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Just checked the NH General Court website for any info on HB 847 and nothing new has been posted. Today March 21, the Transporation Committee is supposedly going to make its' vote to either recommend, not recommend or retain. I think this decision, all by itself, will have a big impact on the bill. Now that the Dems have a slight majority (9 Dems-8 Repubs-1 Indy, or something like that?) it is impossible to predict.
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#26 | |
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UPDATE: 9:00 PM According to the latest update of the General Court's bill tracking website, HB 847 was officially reatined in Committee effective today's date. Last edited by Skip; 03-20-2007 at 08:04 PM. |
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#27 |
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Dick Flynn deserves a new boat! For doing what he did, for accomplishing the unaccomplishable, for postponing the dreaded speed limits, Dick Flynn should putt putt putt......no, make that.....vrrrrmm vrrrmmm vrrrrmmm...into his retirement in whatever Baja, Fountain, Formula, Sea Ray, Cobalt or Doral that he likes.
What do you say NH Marine Trades Assoc, does Commissioner Flynn get a new go-fast or what? Let's just get it shuffled away for a year and hope it stays away forever. I know.....no one has any comment. No comment, thankyou very much. Last edited by fatlazyless; 03-21-2007 at 08:00 AM. |
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#28 |
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Pardon my ignorance of legislative terminology, but what exactly does "retained in committee" mean?
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#29 | |
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From the current legislative session's House Rules: 44...(c) All bills retained in committee for action shall be acted on during the second-year session. The New Hampshire State Legislature is in it's first year of a two year legislative phase. HB 847 was introduced during this initial annual session. The Committee decided to "retain" it this year which allows for action to resume next year at it's second annual session. |
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#30 | |
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#31 | |
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Pine River Pond is not a real good place to GFBL. How about a nice little sport-fish runabout? |
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Why not take the shotgun approach? There are bills pending to ban cell phone use and mandate seatbelt use. Might as well enforce these laws for boats as well as the speed limit.
![]() Why don't we all just sit home and be safe from the dangerous world...speeding boats, motorcycle riders with no helmets, cell phones, smokers and global warming - isn't that what the government, insurance companies, liberals (and media for that matter) want? What a joke this state is becoming. |
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#33 |
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From today's on-line edition of the Laconia based Citizen, coverage of the Transportation Committee's decision to retain and the prospect of trial speed zones on the Lake this summer.
From the pages of the CITIZEN! |
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The proposed speed limit in HB847 would not take effect until 2008 anyway.
So we will have speed limits a year earlier. |
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GFBL boats will avoid the 2 areas. My prediction is that there will be no speeding arrests made during the trial. MP officers will spend a lot of time radaring boats going below the speed limit. I see very little meaningful data coming out of this “project”.
As an afterthought, this will help support that fact that we don't need a speed limit law on Winnipesaukee or anyplace else.
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Or perhaps thats what proponents would like it to be ![]() |
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Seaplane, you are correct about this State becoming a JOKE. I truly believe it is from all the out of states moving here because they once came up and really enjoyed their vacation. Now, they have moved up here and brought up all their bad attitudes that they are trying to move away from. If they would have just came up here and excepted the NEW HAMPSHIRE life style, and left their old baggage where the moved from!
Yes I am a native of the Lakes Region, and Yes it it very obvious to anyone who has lived here all their life. |
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#39 | |
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Why would you come to a place where you "get away from it all" and try and make it like the one you left ? Leave it alone |
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In the middle of the hearing, the Director becomes pro-active and volunteers the funds a full year earlier than was necessary! "Data" from the Director's project will become a new form of art. ![]() |
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Gavia...
You got it a bit wrong.... Director Barrett probably has the budget to train one or possibly two of his full time officers at most. Radar Certification takes about 8 hours or so... He is already in possession of a couple of radar guns, so getting them calibrated is probably not all that expensive. Its one thing to have the $$$ to fund a pilot program on Lake Winnipesaukee... its a whole other ball game if its a state-wide law. Woodsy
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Topwater, couldn't agree with you more.
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After getting some additional info on what 'retaining a bill' means....I thought I'd pass this on: This means 2 45 mph speed zones pilots will likely be implemented in small lake areas near the islands (fine with me) and leave all other NH lakes and the majority of Winni unaffected. Also, this bill is done for 2007 so it can be re-addressed with the supporting MP evidence in 2008 and a more educated decision could then be made by the legislature that would affect boating in 2009. So I think it's a nice compromise and I'm eager to see if there really is a 'speed issue' as I suspect the MP will find themselves giving out a lot of safe passage tickets but rarely speeding ones. As for Director Barrett, I support the MP and think he's making a wise decision here. If the bill was passed as is, it would be very costly for the state and no fiscal note (funding) was attached. Guess what.....I don't want it coming out of my tax money so I'm glad the government isn't rushing off and purchasing dozens of radar guns and investing in training. It isn't going make the lake any safer in my opinion. |
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#46 |
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When the bill is voted on in a year it will still be dated for enactment in 2008. The year delay in the vote does not necessarily mean a year delay in enactment.
I am told the reason the committee was so quick to delay the vote was because it would not change the effective date. |
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#47 | |
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I would guess the committee just didn't want to make a call on it yet if they have the chance to review relevant DOS data in the fall. |
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#48 |
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The House Transportation Committee can vote on HB 847 at anytime - they don't have to wait until next spring (but they will most likely wait until the next session begins). It's my understanding that this bill will not be brought to the full House vote until the next legislative session, which begins next Jan. Once a Bill passes the House, it can go to the Senate anytime, but most House Bills won't be brought before the Senate until after crossover (on April 15th).
As far as the date that the Bill goes into effect - that will remain as Jan 1, 2008; unless the Bill gets passed with an amendment which changes the Effective Date. This date will likely change, but they could easily amend it to be "upon passage", which could easily be by next summer.
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"Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."
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#49 |
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This bill has been officially 'retained in committee' for the 2007 session so no further action can be taken on it this year. Pending the outcome of the MP findings and what the committee then recommends for the bill next year.... it's true that the bill could possibly be fast tracked thru the 2008 process and voted on by Senate in the summer for enactment 'upon passage'. Doubtful in my opinion the legistation would do that though since that would leave no time for MP to purchase the necessary equipment, train the personnel, put up the speed zone signs, and get the funding (since no fiscal note was attached to the bill), etc. But our government works in mysterious ways....so one never knows exactly how this will work.
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