Baja Poker Run

[simplify]

Did anyone else feel the effects of the Baja Poker run last weekend? Saturday my Family and I were put in 2 unsafe situtations by Baja Boat Racers. Particularly a Purple and Yellow 25ft Baja traveling waaay too fast- boy I hope those 2 guys read this forum! I don't know why but you give a person with 1/2 a brain and a fast boat, a chart with a couple of location points and a goal and they throw common sense to the wind and drive like raving loonies. The previous week there was a Poker Run that had a lot more participants in it but it was for the fun of it and not for a race that puts people at risk. Baja racers just don't get it.

[Island-Ho]

I noticed as they sped between Welch and Fish Island none of them slowed down for the smaller boats in the vicinity (less than 150' away). We don't need organized?? unsafe activity like this on this lake on a busy weekend.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

We were unaware of any incidents (I was on shore during the run). Please email me with specifics (as best you can), and we will try to find the responsible parties and block their participation from next year's event.

We had 3 "patrol" boats as well as the MP out, but it's obviously a large territory to cover.

At the driver's meeting, everyone was instructed to maintain at least a 250 ft. distance.

Most all the participants were families, so I'm suprised to here this. Especially considering last year we had more boats an no complaints or incidents.

By the way, this was not a race, but a traditional poker run where there is not prize for being the first one back. Most all participants took 2 1/2 to 3 hours to cover the 4 card stops on the lake.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by simplify

Did anyone else feel the effects of the Baja Poker run last weekend? Saturday my Family and I were put in 2 unsafe situtations by Baja Boat Racers. Particularly a Purple and Yellow 25ft Baja traveling waaay too fast- boy I hope those 2 guys read this forum! I don't know why but you give a person with 1/2 a brain and a fast boat, a chart with a couple of location points and a goal and they throw common sense to the wind and drive like raving loonies. The previous week there was a Poker Run that had a lot more participants in it but it was for the fun of it and not for a race that puts people at risk. Baja racers just don't get it.

FYI - The previous weeks Poker Run was by LAND and lake with the majority of the participants being on land. This was for Easter Seals and has been an annual event for years now. The Baja Poker run was the 2nd annual with only 52 boats participating most of which we local to the lake boaters. They were not "Baja Racers" as you so stated, it was a poker run and the operators are given the rules (which they sign off on) if there are any blatant violations it is up to the rest of us - the boating community to report them to marine patrol if marine patrol is not present at the time. Marine Patrol did put on more boats for this event, as a permit is required for all lake events.

It is so easy for many of you to complain about violators on the lake, whether they are Baja or not, but apparently it is not within your grasp of understanding that you are just as responsible - for not reporting incidents which you feel are in direct violation of the boating laws.

It's easy for people to point out a problem - but near impossible for the majority of society to actually see the solution to a problem. I would advise you to stop complaining and do your part as a boater, a citizen, a member of this community.

By the way - I notice you are a new user with only one post - is there a reason you chose not to use your original log on name??? Just curious?

Originally Posted by Island-Ho

I noticed as they sped between Welch and Fish Island none of them slowed down for the smaller boats in the vicinity (less than 150' away). We don't need organized?? unsafe activity like this on this lake on a busy weekend.

Did you notice if they were in fact Baja's and if they were - did you know if they were participating in the Poker Run or not because not all BAJA owners did. A pretty general statement you made here that has no fact, depth, or real truth to it. Might I suggest rather than blurting out hurtful words to people who joined together for an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT CAUSE that you do a little reading first and make sure that you statement is something of value than of empty words. Take a read of the Baja Poker Run thread under Boating. Hopefully you will never be in a sitaution where you will need water rescue.

I've read over a dozen complaints from the same users on this web site in the last month about the 150' rule and boaters violating it - typically (but not always) they are the ones bashing the performance boats. The lake is crowded on weekends - many tourists and locals who know the rules but very few who actually "Care" about the rules enough to do something about violations. Use your head - think - take action - don't just sit and complain, stop being a follower and start being a leader and do something about what you can only complain about. I HAVE !

[Jan]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

apparently it is not within your grasp of understanding

I just have to jump in here and say that you pro-performance boat posters (not just you Outlaw) really hurt your case by being so rude, insulting and arrogant. I can only assume that your attitude on this forum is also present when you're on the water and that scares me.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Jan

I just have to jump in here and say that you pro-performance boat posters (not just you Outlaw) really hurt your case by being so rude, insulting and arrogant. I can only assume that your attitude on this forum is also present when you're on the water and that scares me.

Not rudeness - just the facts. Like our law enforcement folks say and a quote I've read hundreds of times on this forum "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Whether you are unaware of a law or whether you choose to ignore the law (and this I believe goes both ways - meaning the person breaking it and the person observing the one breaking it) this is no excuse.

Same as when you are in a motor vehicle and you see a dangerous driver or an accident, it is within your civil rights, duties, responsibilities etc. to report this.

It's simple - if just one person stopped complaining and took action others would follow. It does no good to complain, the problem will usually still exist. In order to address the problem and find solutions to it a person needs to take action. Every action means something and DOES count.

How about instead of pointing out on this forum ever time someone has an encounter with another boater that may be a violation rather than post a complaint about it we call marine patrol and give then whatever distinctive marks / characteristics etc. (possibly the bow numbers if you are able to get them which is a very difficult thing to do without jeopardizing yourself). I know there aren't enough of these guys on the lake, but if the boating community starts to put greater demand on them for more presence this may create the action we need.

In closing, I never did say I was a pro or con performance boater. I am however a PRO safe boater and encourage everyone to be the same.

[scott hughes]

I agree with outlaw people know the laws if they don,t choose to follow them then its up to the rest of the boating people to call the mp and let them handle it.and no i,m not a pro preformance boater i own a pontoon boat

[The Big Kahuna]

Let the Marine Patrol handle it? That is a joke! I own a Baja, NO I DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE POKER RUN.
I was recently stopped by the Marine Patrol for the 150" rule, but I was 200 ft. from the only boat around. They are enforcing rules that have not even been broken because of the stuid hesteria being caused. It is lawless and unconstitutional the way they are patroling the lake.
They are stopping boats without proable cause and the officers are babies, all around 20 years old with little to no practical boating or law-enforcement experience. They need to do some real policing and go after the boats causing the problems, not just the power boats that are an easy target.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Let the Marine Patrol handle it? That is a joke! I own a Baja, NO I DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE POKER RUN.
I was recently stopped by the Marine Patrol for the 150" rule, but I was 200 ft. from the only boat around. They are enforcing rules that have not even been broken because of the stuid hesteria being caused. It is lawless and unconstitutional the way they are patroling the lake.
They are stopping boats without proable cause and the officers are babies, all around 20 years old with little to no practical boating or law-enforcement experience. They need to do some real policing and go after the boats causing the problems, not just the power boats that are an easy target.

You do have the right to contest any ticket you receive on water or land if you feel you were not in the wrong and especailly if you feel you were stopped without cause. So if you feel MP did not have probable cause or were wrong in their assessment contest the written ticket (if they gave you one). If it were only a warning - visit the MP and talk to the officer on duty about your concerns.

Unfortunatley the state does not allocate a HUGE amount of funds to MP so the pay is low and this isn't a real attration for many people that need to support a family and such, so it's no suprise the younger generation fill many of the positions, but to their credit, this is a start (i.e. experience) in the law enforcement arena.

I couldn't agree with you more when you say "stuid hesteria being caused", and this forum is a place where some (repeat - some) of it is caused. And you know as well as I do that MP are logged on to this forum.

Again today I notice a common thread in peoples messages - people will without hesitation complain and accuse MP, boaters, the lake, ....... but when it comes to taking action to do something about it to ensure that it doesn't happen to them again or others - I'm not reading or hearing anything. Come on folks lets get on the stick and be proactive and get the things we want and need and if that's better policing of the lake - it can be done.

[simplify]

TO Outlaw: By the way - I notice you are a new user with only one post - is there a reason you chose not to use your original log on name??? Just curious?

The reason I decided to join the forum and comment was becuase I got tired of people like you taking up all the space with relentless drival. I happened to see a group of Baja's screaming across the lake like loonies going from point to point. Particularly there happened to be 2 guys in a purple and yellow Baja with Black "BAJA" writing on side that were pushing the limits. -I am now guessing this was YOU and you are feeling a little sheepish. I'm taking a guess that they were in the Baja poker run/race. If they were just acting crazy and not in the poker run I think I am even more worried.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by simplify

TO Outlaw: By the way - I notice you are a new user with only one post - is there a reason you chose not to use your original log on name??? Just curious?

The reason I decided to join the forum and comment was becuase I got tired of people like you taking up all the space with relentless drival. I happened to see a group of Baja's screaming across the lake like loonies going from point to point. Particularly there happened to be 2 guys in a purple and yellow Baja with Black "BAJA" writing on side that were pushing the limits. -I am now guessing this was YOU and you are feeling a little sheepish. I'm taking a guess that they were in the Baja poker run/race. If they were just acting crazy and not in the poker run I think I am even more worried.

You are correct I was INvolved in the Poker Run, but I was the one on shore with the Fire Chief all day. As PBR asked, is there anything more you can give us to make this boat and it's occupants more distinct (possible color of clothing, color of the swim platform - as these can be very distinct in Baja's; you mentioned 2 guy's could you tell if they were both adults; was one taller than the other; ... I don't know how close you were to them in order to get any more detail than the color of the boat - but anything else you can add will be very helpful. You either know your Baja's or the boat was close enough to yours to determine it was 25' - we had several particpants at this length and as yellow and purple are very common Baja colors any other distinguishings marks would be helpful) if you would like to send any of this info via private email we will take this matter up with the organization and discuss this with the operator of the boat. This boater if indeed a particpant may very well be banned from such events in the future.

I will ignor you comment on drival - you may want to read my other posts (under boating) before rendering such judgements. I would think the dedication of this event and all the work put in to by myself and others would not be considered drival. Thanks bob, your help is appreciated.

[dpg]

Simplify: You seem to know plenty about the boat. Make the whole thing easier for everyone and just hand over the numbers on it. In reading your post's I truely believe you have them also.

[KonaChick]

Me thinks "OUTLAW" doth protest too much

[Coastal Laker]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Me thinks "OUTLAW" doth protest too much

If I worked very hard for a good cause and people didn't show much appreciation for my efforts (but rather offered complaints I can't do much with) I'd probably feel attacked and react in a similar fashion. I believe that good constructive criticism would be appreciated since all the volunteers want very much to make future events safe and productive ones.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Me thinks "OUTLAW" doth protest too much

Just trying to pinpoint the offenders and rectify the situation.

Originally Posted by simplify

Particularly there happened to be 2 guys in a purple and yellow Baja with Black "BAJA" writing on side that were pushing the limits.

In all fairness, if Simplify had an issue I think we should listen to it and do what's necessary to correct it so no one else has to encounter it.

But Simplify may not be on line today as I do not have any Private emails with any more detail about the alleged offender. As all boats do have graphics that are specific to a year (and can be viewed on the manufacturers web site) Simplify may be able to tell us which style this boat was.

Some good words to live by: "You're either part of the problem or part of the solution'.

[Belmont Resident]

Just because a group of boats is driving across the lake fast doesn’t mean they are doing anything wrong.
I like to drive fast as often as I can but still obey the rules. Who are you to tell boat owners what they can do or how fast they can drive. A lot of the people you are referring to have been boating for years and have probably forgotten more about boating than you have learned.
If they were putting you in harms way then that’s different. But from what you are saying you’re sounding just like someone else on this site who constantly bashes powerboats.
You can not classify a group of boaters into the same category just because of a few bad apples.
That’s like me saying your whole family must be bad because you got a speeding ticket going down the highway.
I personally stop for every boater I see with a hatch up, pick up trash on the lake when I see it.
But love to push my boat when I drive it all while going out of my way to avoid coming within 300’ of other boats.
The average every day boaters outnumbers the power boaters at least 10 to 1 on the lake. I have not asked this year but in the past the group with the most violations was jet skies and family boaters.

[The Big Kahuna]

I can not tell you how many times I have been on this lake over the past 20 years, and have come to the aid of boaters who were broken down and a few even sinking. They all told me the same thing, that they had been trying to wave a boat down to help them for a very long time, in some cases hours. By the way, I have a Baja Power Boat and every time I have stopped to help at least 5 or 6 other boats went right by or steared away to put distance between them and the boats needing help. Actions speak louder than words people.

[Floridian]

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth. Last Friday (early evening) we went to the Pier 19 store for ice cream. As we were docking, a Baja boat (wish I could remember a more exact description) came flying into the docking area causing all the boats to bounce fiercely against the dock. He then tied up leaving his lines all over the dock for others (including the small children with us) to trip over. After he picked up his passenger and the luggage, he backed out and gunned the engine to what appeared to be full speed immediately. Absolutely no consideration for "wake speed" near the docks or other boats waiting to dock. I'm not saying all Baja owners are like this but these actions do tend make me remember the bad instead of the good.

[Juawanna]

Originally Posted by Floridian

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth. Last Friday (early evening) we went to the Pier 19 store for ice cream. As we were docking, a Baja boat (wish I could remember a more exact description) came flying into the docking area causing all the boats to bounce fiercely against the dock. He then tied up leaving his lines all over the dock for others (including the small children with us) to trip over. After he picked up his passenger and the luggage, he backed out and gunned the engine to what appeared to be full speed immediately. Absolutely no consideration for "wake speed" near the docks or other boats waiting to dock. I'm not saying all Baja owners are like this but these actions do tend make me remember the bad instead of the good.

If you were withn ear shot (which I don't know) did you say anything to this boater? He/she certainly deserved a comment or two. I know there are a lot of fools out there in all kinds of boats - whether they be locals or vacationers or trailered, just go to the town docks on any given weekend and you'll see more than your share. I was driving around the lake this afternoon to an appointment and in the 2 miles of lake that I could see as I was driving I saw 3 blatent violations - a 22 ft. bow rider more than head way speed approx. 30 ft. from a party go blow pass the party boat; 2 jet skiers toying around with eachother certainly less than the 300 feet they are required to maintain from eachother; and a small 20ish foot cabin cruiser coming in to dock at more than headway speed bringing along with him the big kick **s wake. Sometimes you just don't believe what you see and wish you could give them a tickete on the spot. A 'serious' ticket at that. I wish there was more I could do to penalize these violators myself - maybe there is and I'm going to find out.

[skiguy151]

I was on the lake last weekend and say a Baja boat following the boating laws. He didnt make a wake until he was more than 150 feet way from the no wake sign and he even kept a safe distance (more then 150 feet away) from other boaters.

I did however see this absolute idiot in a canoe paddeling in an un safe manner....


..........another day in paradise

[Grant]

Here's a real dumb question, but one I've been meaning to ask for a long time:

What is a "Baja Poker Run"????

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Grant

What is a "Baja Poker Run"????

My understanding is a poker run is an event where the boaters go to various destinations and at each a card is drawn randomly from the deck. After the last destination the person holding the best poker hand "wins" (sometime a prize or $$). Basically an excuse for like minded people to get together and boat around Baja variety is for Baja owners, Donzi variety is for Donzi owners, etc, etc.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Grant

Here's a real dumb question, but one I've been meaning to ask for a long time:

What is a "Baja Poker Run"????

Not a dumb question at all. A bunch of Baja owners/operators get together for a cause (this year the fire department rescue boat), run around the lake to 5 predetermined spots. There are 5 card boats, anchored, one at each spot, and the card boats give out one card and the Baja owner/operator collects all 5 cards and at the end of the day when they turn in their cards the one with the best hand wins.

Reason it is Baja Poker Run, is that this year (and last) it was organized by TeamBajaMarine, NH Chapter only for Baja owners/operators.

Hope this helps.

[The Big Kahuna]

Did you happen to notice that 3 out of 4 boats in the poker run were from out of state. Most of the participants in this event are not regular boaters on Winni, they trailer in from other states. Your regular Winni Laker Baja's could not be bothered with this event.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Did you happen to notice that 3 out of 4 boats in the poker run were from out of state. Most of the participants in this event are not regular boaters on Winni, they trailer in from other states. Your regular Winni Laker Baja's could not be bothered with this event.

There were a number of trailered boats, you are absolutely correct - I would go a step further and say that out of those 3 boats that 1 of them was trailered in from elsewhere in NH and not a regular Winni boater. I spoke to a number of folks that day, that live in NH but not the Lakes Region and loved Winni (what's not to love right )

We did have many local Baja'ers as well, but it is unfortunate that more did not participate given the run was dedicated to fire firefighter Mark Miller. It could only have been a more successful donation that was made.

I hope those regular Winni Baja folks that read this forum will consider joining in next year and be part of next years contribution to the Fire Department, I'm sure there will be expenses and maintenance costs associated with the new Rescue Boat (that is expected to be delivered mid August).

[Belmont Resident]

Outlaw is correct on this one. Most of the boats were from right here on the lake. It really is a good time and should get better with each year. One of the suggestions made was to make it more interresting and give clues to each stop instead of letting boaters know where they are going. This would have boats going in different directions instead of all heading to the same spot. It would also make more of an all day even and take the race to get there out of it. Hopefully...Hey it beats sitting at the same sand bar each weekend.

[Kona Bay Girl]

Ahhh, my idea of the poker run was that the boats stopped at bars. As my uncle sarcastically said last weekend, "there's nothing worse than a bunch of drunk guys in fast boats."

It's sensible that they made the checkpoints boats instead of bars.

My family owns the champ of the Bajas. Oh baby, it is 19 feet in length, manufactured in 1991 and tops off at 48 mph. AND they managed to put the through-hull exhaust underwater to make our boat look extra sneaky.

However, the boat is so narrow and has a longer nose than most other boats that length, only a small portion of it is in the water when it planes out.

It's a cute boat.

[Juawanna]

Kona Girl - post a picture, we'd love to see it.

[Kona Bay Girl]

So what if it has three names?

[Belmont Resident]

Nice looking boat.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Kona Bay Girl

So what if it has three names?

Sweeeeet!!!!!

[Kona Bay Girl]

Is it just me or does the v-hull seem extremely deep?

[Coastal Laker]

V-hull looks right to me... makes for some good skipping across the waves.

[outlawmike]

lets talk about the facts from the run. It is not a race and all the boats went in different directions. There was no sequence to the stops. The poker run was held to give 1000.00 to the Mark Miller fund, to help save anyones life on the lake as there is no one to help us if we go down, i repeat no one. The reason i know this is that i am the organizer of the run.

Big kahuna do you have something agiainst poker runs of did i read you wrong.

it is a shame that i put on a run to help better the lake and i get this. Is this site designed for complaining or is it for info on the lake????

[outlawmike]

i am sorry i missed one more fact. 15 of the 50 boats were from out of state, not 3 out of 4. most of the people are from the lake. Another fact is that almost 300 baja's are on the lake with no other manufacturer even close.For those of you that can't be bothered to help support the lake i really fell sorry for you. Dana i thought you would say something more positive about the run.

[Outlaw]

Outlawmike - this thread is probably not the best one about the Baja Poker Run (as Simplify initiated it with a complaint - which I and PBR have addressed by asking Simplify to give us more detail, but to date neither of us have received the 'additional info'- come on Simplify ).

Some people choose to be part of the problem and some choose to be part of the solution - I guess you and I are the latter!

The thread you really need to read is under BOATING, and it is called "Baja Owners help make lake safer" started by Skip. This is an excellent one!

Congrats on another great run this year. I'm sure next year can only be better and with the dedication again being to the LACONIA FIRE FIGHTERS.

[GTO]

"No sequence to the stops". Was it just a coincidence that 25 (I counted) Bajas pulled up to the jet ski in the Centre Harbor area, waited till one member swam ashore to get their card, got back to the boat, and then all raced off to the next stop. Yes, I did say race.

Just clearing things up. Not stirring the pot. Raising money for a good cause is a good thing, but to race from one spot to the next, sometime 3-4 boats side by side, stay out of their way or next year they might be raising money for you.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by GTO

stay out of their way or next year they might be raising money for you.

GTO - you're just too funny

I realize that for some reason the participants felt (and not all) it necessary to race off (especially after that particular stop since it was a challenge to find it). I guess next year we'll have to put more patrol boats out there near each stop and disqualify anyone who is seen to be 'racing' from stop to stop. I guess this is the only way to get through to 'some' of the participants that THIS IS NOT A RACE (I'm hoping those who did race read this and get the emphasis from my use of CAPS that it was wrong of them to race around). It's ok to go fast if you want - but it is of the utmost importance that every participating boater adhere to not only the NH rules and regs on the water, but the document that each participant signed before starting the run, which was to make the run safe and fun for all (including the non prarticipants who were just enjoying the lake that day). As there was not a patrol boat in this area (Ctr. Harbor) that day, we can only listen to the other boaters as to what they saw. We take what each person says seriously, and this will help to change / improve the run for next year. I think immediate disqualification without refund is one way to reinforce that this is not a race, and we will continue to look for other ways to make this run safer.

[samcracker]

After yesterday, I can see why some of you get hot under the collar now.

My cousin came up from CT with his boat (you guessed it- a yellow and purple baja: like the one below) and we decided to go for a ride. Hanging out at the sandbar, someone came up to him and asked him if he was in the poker run since he heard about the yellow and purple baja that was speeding around (no lie). That sparked some conversation, especially since my cousin wasn’t even in the state until last Friday. Ironically, and the reason I just had to post… I was chatting with a friend yesterday about it and he mentioned that people were giving someone in a yellow and purple baja a hard time when he was at a different sandbar yesterday on his day off. I’m starting to find that a little more than coincidence (same guy perhaps?). What the heck?

[outlawmike]

you people really have way too much time on your hands. you need to find something more constructive. Baja's are not a problem on the lake, by far they are the most populated. We do not race we go from one spot to another and some of us like to boat together. sorry if it was an inconvience for you but it will be happening every year.

[Belmont Resident]

Mike from the start there was never any proof that the original comment made was true. Several times more information was asked for but never given. Now because of someone shooting off their mouth all Baja's with any combination of yellow and purple and any other color are being looked at as if they did something wrong. Seem's like some people will believe just about anything.
If there was in fact a real problem the original poster would have been able to give details like how many people were on the boat, where the boat was traveling at the time they put the other boater in harms way, etc.
I think the whole thing was fabricated to cast a shadow on the good cause.

[Juawanna]

Seems like Simplify's post can't hold water (I crack myself up ). After careful reading it sounds to me like Simplify has a beef with someone and has made false accusations in a post that he/she can't belly up to. Especially after two very concerned users have requested details, including helping Simplify go on to the Baja web site to identify the particular graphics style that was on the "alleged boat" and communicating through private email - how much more confidential can you get?? I think PBR and Outlaw at least deserve a reply from Simplify to close this matter, even if it means that he/she was not able to accurately identify this "alleged boat".

[dpg]

Let a few folks complain, you'll never get away from that. Try to keep the people under control (in the boats) and have fun. If you raise $25.00 in some cases it may be more than the negative posters will ever part with.

[Outlaw]

Here here - couldn't have said it better myself dpg. Can't please all the people all the time right. The only unfortunate thing, is that some people that have 'an issue' usually stick around to defend their stand, this one (Simplify) seems more like a hit and run, and if he doesn't want to play nice in the sandbox, he is best forgotten.

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Kona Bay Girl

"...As my uncle sarcastically said last weekend, "there's nothing worse than a bunch of drunk guys in fast boats."

The problem was (and is) that Poker Runs consider P/L over R/B**.

I recall a Long Beach (CA) Poker Run that paid out $45,000 to the holder of the best poker hand. ($10,000 payouts are everywhere at Poker-Run sites).

http://www.atla.org/homepage/boat1008.aspx
Scott did not live long after this Poker Run "encounter". (There are others).

**Risk/Benefit -- But don't look for a cake sale from Baja, Inc. any time soon -- to make the Lake safer.