building Winni Sailing

[jonr]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

PS

If anyone wants to make a tax deductible contribution before this year ends, they can mail it to

Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
71 Varney Point Rd
Gilford NH 03246

Thank you for your support. Please send any contributions to the LWSA's address below not the address listed above (which is Fay's).

Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
PO Box 7047
Gilford NH 03247

or you can donate online at:

http://www.lwsa.org//store/index.php?cPath=3

with some general info about donations/membership at:

http://www.lwsa.org/support.php

[fatlazyless]

As reported by The Laconia Citizen...

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...720/-1/citizen
''''''''''''''''''
Oops, my link does not work, again. Can someone help me out by posting a working link to the Dec 21 Citizen article, or just google 'ellacoya sailing winnipesaukee.' The artcle says they need $150,000. to purchase the two 16' 'technology laden' sail boats plus other sail boats.

Hey, maybe just a 30 year old Mirrocraft 12' aluminum row boat, the fixer-upper type you find for $150. at yard sales, would be ok for the blind and physically impaired. They work very good with some new paint, leaks repaired, and new wood oars; they put you out on the water, and actually give you probably way more exercise than a $50,000., or so, computer controlled adaptive 16' sailboat. Those little, tired old 12' row boats work good, and besides they give you a sense a being close to the water that you just don't get in a large 16' sailboat.

After all, Ellacoya State Park is the one and only NH state park beach area on Winnipesaukee.

[lakegirl]

This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.

[nvtngtxpyr]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.

I agree with you on this. Their representative has stated that they want to control the boat ramp and increase the boat launch fees to help defray their costs. A pretty cynical way to discourage the public use of public land so that they can use and control access to the lake.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.

You need to do your research before making a comment like this. I have seen the renditions. The State Park and it's beach is not being touched. Only the area directly in front of the existing bath house in front of the RV park is being utilized. The current State Park beach is not being touched!! An improved public ramp and public dock is planned. (There is currently no public dock there now and the ramp (if you want to call it that) is almost unusable! WOW such a bad thing to happen, giving more and better public access!!

I think that your comment that the "investor is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys" is ridiculous and a disgusting comment to make in a public forum. I personally know the "investor" and I can assure you that he does not need a place to put his toys. He is a generous man who has done a lot for the sailing program on the lake. This is being done clearly out of his love for sailing and helping the less fortunate, the disabled and even the "Wounded Warriors" program are now involved.

The sailing program has been on the lake since 1988, they have simply outgrown the current facility and are turning away more kids than ever.

You need to do more research before publicly bashing someone who is trying to do a good thing!

Dan

[fatlazyless]

Here's the state website for www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html. It's waterfront location places it directly onto an open 'big water' area of the lake. Extremely scenic what with its long sandy beach, volleyball court, recreational vehicle campground, large brook that seperates the beach area from the rv area, and terrific views of the open water, islands, & mountains.

The existing boat launch, if one calls it a boat launch, probably requires a four wheel drive vehicle with large tires, and a light weight boat and trailer because it is an unimproved boat launch on the extreme south end of the property. Launching means dragging a trailer across a natural sandy beach and into the lake with no paved ramp....just the sandy beach...to slide a boat into the lake. It is more accurately considered a graded dirt road that stops at the natural sandy beach than to consider it to be a boat launch.

With what has been happening at the Ames farm.....who knows....maybe the state might wish to reconstruct the very flat, and devoid of trees, rv campground into a state boat launch and vehicle-trailer, asphalt paved parking lot. But, this is total conjecture and probably years down the road, with all the pros & cons to be considered and argued?

[jrc]

The original thread is almost three years old? Is this still pending or has something been resolved?

What brought this thread back from the dead?

[lakegirl]

I have done my research on this. :-) I suggest you do the same. The developer has not been honest about his intentions. He is planning to build a 3 story function type facility that will host weddings etc. The beach as it is will never be the same. It is also my understanding that he wants to control the boat ramp. The Ellacoya State Beach is a beautful State Beach... that belongs to us! Let's keep it that way. :-) There is a large group of individuals that have joined forces to keep this project from happening. If you are interested in helping.... please let me know.

[fatlazyless]

Here's what was being proposed back in 2007: www.lwsa.org/sailingcenter/archive/2007/sailin...dang it....not too helpfull

Hello Lakegirl....cannot seem to find any news.....how about a couple of keys words or names ...to aid in locating the latest 2010 www.lwsa.org at Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park proposed sailboat, local youth, teaching facility? thanks! Just reading through these posts here....and it sounds like the proposed local youth sailing school building would be built on the south end of the property, and in front of the 37 campsite, recreational vehicle campground, as opposed to the beach and swimming area up at the north end. Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park includes 65.5 (sixty five & one half) acres of land, with two seperated waterfront beach areas, split into two beach areas by a large in-flowing brook, and different shoreline geography. Hope this helps...

[lakegirl]

FLL... the proposed building will be in the general area where the campers go ( near the existing bath house building). I am looking at a current set of drawings for the function facilitity/pavillion. It is huge. There are plans for a mooring field and boat docks. This will change the whole dynamic of Ellacoya. I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.

I have been photographing this area for years. I can't imagine ellacoya being filled with boats....and sailboats. To sum it up....it is just wrong.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

FLL... the proposed building will be in the general area where the campers go ( near the existing bath house building). I am looking at a current set of drawings for the function facilitity/pavillion. It is huge. There are plans for a mooring field and boat docks. This will change the whole dynamic of Ellacoya. I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.

I have been photographing this area for years. I can't imagine ellacoya being filled with boats....and sailboats. To sum it up....it is just wrong.

What happened to the three story building you stated in your previous post?? Now it's a one story pavillion?? If you can't win them over with facts scare them over with fiction!

Heaven forbid there are sail boats in the water in front of Ellacoya!

Sheesh, where and when does it end!

[lakegirl]

Ishoot

One of his plans (as presented at a meeting) was a three story building. Depending on who he meets with .... his story changes. I was just emailed plans which show it as the one story building. So with that said... The current plans show the large one story building. Who knows when that will change again.

From this point on... the focus will be how to stop the project. Period.

[Ironfish]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.

Ah yes, those noisy sailboats! .... and there is nothing more offensive than looking out upon a group of small sailboats gliding through the water. The kids laughing, as they drift away from the dock, will probably warrant a new noise ordinance. In fact, we should probably ban all traffic and swimming at Ellacoya, so that your personal enjoyment of the lake takes place unimpeded.

With all due respect Lakegirl, it's a public lake. I don't know all of the facts, but the concept strikes me as a wonderful public benefit (assuming it is open to the public) with an activity that is about as environmentally friendly as they come.

Assuming sound planning to mitigate the impacts of the additional public use, I wish this group the best.

[VitaBene]

Lakegirl, your case seems to be one of not in my backyard more than anything else.

If you have a more legitimate gripe than the ones you have presented, by all means, lawyer up and start throwing down roadblocks. You know the outcome already- the lawyers get rich, the project gets built and your wallet gets a lot lighter.

It seems like a great project and a good place for it. I love seeing the kids out sailing.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Winnipesaukee Sailing School on NH Chronicle

Nice to see you here again Lakegirl!

[OCDACTIVE]

I personally want to say that I applaud what Mr. Mullen and his group is doing and trying to accomplish. This is a great organization with the best of intentions in mind. I and SBONH - Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, has full confidence in their plans going forward and will continue to fully support their goals.

Please keep up the GREAT work and let us know what else we can do to assist.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I personally want to say that I applaud what Mr. Mullen and his group is doing and trying to accomplish. This is a great organization with the best of intentions in mind. I and SBONH - Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, has full confidence in their plans going forward and will continue to fully support their goals.

Please keep up the GREAT work and let us know what else we can do to assist.

It's nice to see SBONH supporting the sailing community on the lake!! So much more can be accomplished when ALL boaters, whether they are performance, power, sail, or paddle working together for the common goal of safely sharing the lake.

Dan

[Tobey]

I have been going to the State Beach for years. How will all the RV campers enjoy the peace and serinity of the area if there is continual traffic and noise from weddings and other functions?
How will the campers enjoy the use of the lakeferont with respect to tying the boats up?
How will you get sail boats in there? You have to go out 70+ feet to get 3 feet of water in some spots. The brook that feeds into there is ever changing the depth and "Sandscape" of the area?
I am certainly not opposed to any program such as you offer. I am opposed to what it will do to the State beach and the current users of that area.
Also, as a boater and sailor, I can not imagine this being a desirable area. There is no protective cove and the north West wind rips thru there continually. With a 3 foot draft (or less) you will find less than 6 Inches of water in the continual swells. I have to ask, did you do your homework in researching this spot?

I will be calling and writing the head of the State parks to voice my concern.

Thanks for listening

[Excalibur]

While in college I was a member of community boating in Boston on the Charles river and I think this is great opportunity for the public to have a greater access to the lake then to just sit on the beach and enjoying only its beauty.

I am sure the newbies may want to take some shelter in Smiths Cove on those big NW Blow days.

http://www.community-boating.org/

[fatlazyless]

For those not too familiar with the sailboat beach area, directly in front of the rv campground's toilet/shower building. It is a sandy beach, about 600' long by maybe 40' deep that tapers down to zero feet deep up by the brook outlet. At the north end immediately abutting the 5' chain link fence that seperates Ellacoya State Beach from www.lakeshorepark.org, there is a very umimproved, sandy beach boat launch. The sailing beach has no dock, no ramps, no rafts, no swim or boat improvement what-so-ever and no boat facilities. It is a very undeveloped natural beach and has probably been like that for many, many years, like maybe 40 to 100-years, since the concrete retainer wall was built, or something.

There's a few picnic tables out front of the toilet/shower building for use by the rv campers. "Registered Campers Only" is what the sign says for anyone who walks across the Poor Farm Brook to walk from the the swimming beach to the rv area - sailing beach.

With what's happening down at Ames Farm Inn, also in Gilford, with regards to the limited use of its' boat launch and parking, maybe the state is considering Ellacoya for a triple play of rv camping-sailing-boat launch. With Ellacoya's 65.5 acres of land in total, it sure looks like the rv campground side of the property has the space for all three uses. The open field of rv campsites www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html has 37 campsites, all with water-sewer-electricity hook-ups and costs $47/night.

As a side note, one can stay at any one of 23 different Forest Service campgrounds in the White Mt Nat'l Forest, New Hampshire & Maine, for just $16/night, but they do not have any hook-ups.

If I were in the public municipal boat launch business, the very first thing I'd do would be to install one of those green steel fee deposit tubes, similar to what the federal government uses in the White Mt Nat'l Forest. Charge a low price, with honor system payments, taking payments 24-7-365 as the pay tube is concreted into the ground, and everyone becomes a winner; the boat launch, the sailboat school, the fishermen, the trailer-boaters, the rv campground and the Lake Shore residential park abutter neighbors; one great big happy boater family!

Hope this helps!
......

Anyone have a link to a website that explores the history and beginnings of Ellacoya as a NH State Beach & RV Campground? How did the state acquire Ellacoya? Did the state buy it from Chief Ellacoya for 10-cigars and a case of Jenkins rye whiskey, or what? Who was Ellacoya? How did the Ellacoya 65.5 acre waterfront property originally come to be a state facility?

[no-engine]

Sailing from childhood to whenever.... such a valuable life experience!

As kids, we were exposed to sailing as a family, individually at lessons, and all the happenings. We are now 60+ in age; when we sail again, even though infrequently now, it has become second nature to take a tiller or wheel under sail, and it was like walking - something one does not forget. In addition to sailing & maintenance, we were taught respect of others on the water. It was on Atlantic Coast.

One sibling is very active & involved on the board of directors of a non-profit corporation whose mission is to make it possible for handicapped to have sailing experiences - the amount of handicap is of no concern to them. They receive donations, maybe of boats, do a little work on them; then sell them which becomes part of their working funds. In summer season, they have staff on payroll.

So therefore, I say go for it! BTW: I have lived in Lakes Region for over 30 years; and sailed on Lake!

[edjr]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For those not too familiar with the sailboat beach area, directly in front of the rv campground's toilet/shower building. It is a sandy beach, about 600' long by maybe 40' deep that tapers down to zero feet deep up by the brook outlet. At the north end immediately abutting the 5' chain link fence that seperates Ellacoya State Beach from www.lakeshorepark.org, there is a very umimproved, sandy beach boat launch. The sailing beach has no dock, no ramps, no rafts, no swim or boat improvement what-so-ever and no boat facilities. It is a very undeveloped natural beach and has probably been like that for many, many years, like maybe 40 to 100-years, since the concrete retainer wall was built, or something.

There's a few picnic tables out front of the toilet/shower building for use by the rv campers. "Registered Campers Only" is what the sign says for anyone who walks across the Poor Farm Brook to walk from the the swimming beach to the rv area - sailing beach.

With what's happening down at Ames Farm Inn, also in Gilford, with regards to the limited use of its' boat launch and parking, maybe the state is considering Ellacoya for a triple play of rv camping-sailing-boat launch. With Ellacoya's 65.5 acres of land in total, it sure looks like the rv campground side of the property has the space for all three uses. The open field of rv campsites www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html has 37 campsites, all with water-sewer-electricity hook-ups and costs $47/night.

As a side note, one can stay at any one of 23 different Forest Service campgrounds in the White Mt Nat'l Forest, New Hampshire & Maine, for just $16/night, but they do not have any hook-ups.

If I were in the public municipal boat launch business, the very first thing I'd do would be to install one of those green steel fee deposit tubes, similar to what the federal government uses in the White Mt Nat'l Forest. Charge a low price, with honor system payments, taking payments 24-7-365 as the pay tube is concreted into the ground, and everyone becomes a winner; the boat launch, the sailboat school, the fishermen, the trailer-boaters, the rv campground and the Lake Shore residential park abutter neighbors; one great big happy boater family!

Hope this helps!
......

Anyone have a link to a website that explores the history and beginnings of Ellacoya as a NH State Beach & RV Campground? How did the state acquire Ellacoya? Did the state buy it from Chief Ellacoya for 10-cigars and a case of Jenkins rye whiskey, or what? Who was Ellacoya? How did the Ellacoya 65.5 acre waterfront property originally come to be a state facility?

_______________________________
when i saw your question i figured that i had to register as a new member in order to respond.

back in the 1950's & 1960's my family rented summer cottages on the property. at that time, Ellacoya was actually three properties two of which were owned by the Dugas family. Mrs Dugas lived in a red farmhouse across the road before it was improved/widened and she had a son who was a missionary priest who visited in the summer and said weekday masses at Our Lady of the Lakes in Lakeport and at Saint Helena's on sundays. the first property on the lake shore park side of the creek had log cabin style cottages and was called Minnie Ha Ha [at least that's what we called it]; it was the first property bought by the state. those cottages were brought across the ice and placed adjacent to but set back from other cottages on the second Dugas property called Morril Beach. between the two properties next to the creek was property owned by the Armitage family. until the Armitage family was ready to sell, the Morril beach property continued to be used by families who rented cottages from the Dugas family until the mid to late 1960s. in an attempt to convince the state that the value of the land was more than they wanted to pay, Mrs. Dugas played a number of the rental families by offerring to sell them the individual cottages and lots which they had been renting for years. when the Armitage family finally agreed to sell to the state, Mrs Dugas did as well. she did move a few of her cottages down to a spot in west alton but our family never rented from her at that location unless it was while i was in vietnam.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

I have been going to the State Beach for years. How will all the RV campers enjoy the peace and serinity of the area if there is continual traffic and noise from weddings and other functions?
How will the campers enjoy the use of the lakeferont with respect to tying the boats up?
How will you get sail boats in there? You have to go out 70+ feet to get 3 feet of water in some spots. The brook that feeds into there is ever changing the depth and "Sandscape" of the area?
I am certainly not opposed to any program such as you offer. I am opposed to what it will do to the State beach and the current users of that area.
Also, as a boater and sailor, I can not imagine this being a desirable area. There is no protective cove and the north West wind rips thru there continually. With a 3 foot draft (or less) you will find less than 6 Inches of water in the continual swells. I have to ask, did you do your homework in researching this spot?

I will be calling and writing the head of the State parks to voice my concern.

Thanks for listening

Hello Tobey,

For the last two years since I became aware that Ellacoya might be an option, I have been carefully studying the wind patterns and the water depths at the Ellacoya site. Our waterfront plan carefully takes the northwest winds into consideration as well as the north and northeast winds.

Our marine engineer has designed what's called a wave fence that will shelter the waterfront from these north winds yet allow for the open flow of sand and silt laden water back and forth across the waterfronts of Ellacoya and Lake Shore Park. I live all summer on Welch Island and each day as I travelled across to go to work, I would swing down to Ellacoya and record the wind conditions. There were only four days during the eight weeks we ran our program this summer that I would have been reluctant to have our instructors out on the water with our students. But even on those days, there were opportunities to tow our boats up into the lee of Welch Island or around into the lee of Lake Shore Park over by Ames Farm Inn so that we could be sheltered from north winds.

Board of Directors and I have been looking for the "Perfect" site for more than ten years and we finally concluded that there was no such thing out there, not to mention the cost of purchasing an appropriate privately owned site that would easily have run upwards of $1 Million.

Thanks for your interest and your concerns are duly noted.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[Lucky1]

My daughter was a member of LWSA for several summers. She loved to sail and later wrote her college application essay on sailing. It was entitled, "Feel My Joy." She went on to sail on the team at her college. It was a wonderful expereince for her. I feel quite sure that she might well get that laser out of the garage and back into the lake if there was a place where she and others could go to enjoy this wonderful sport. It is sometimes to solitary I think to do it alone.

I don't know the facts but hope it all works out for everyone. We need good wholesome activities for young people at the lake. Heck I might even get back into simple sailing.

[Tobey]

Mr. Mullen,
Aside from that I understand you may want functions and parking for up to 75 vehicles.
If I am there on a 2 week vacation i certainly do not want vehicles coming and going all the time. Where would you park all those cars?
Also, I and the fellow campers would not want to listen to bands on weekends or other times. Is ay that because I understand you may rent the hall out for various functions to offset costs. We'll only be a few feet away in our campers.
There must be another spot. how about the other end of the state beach?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Mr. Mullen,
Aside from that I understand you may want functions and parking for up to 75 vehicles.
If I am there on a 2 week vacation i certainly do not want vehicles coming and going all the time. Where would you park all those cars?
Also, I and the fellow campers would not want to listen to bands on weekends or other times. Is ay that because I understand you may rent the hall out for various functions to offset costs. We'll only be a few feet away in our campers.
There must be another spot. how about the other end of the state beach?

Tobey,

Like the rest of the lake, we need to share the resources. I find it interesting that you state what you do and don't want to happen around you at the NH owned campground. If you want that level of control, you may need to look into buying a spot at one of the many campgrounds around the lake.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

I have done my research on this. :-) I suggest you do the same. The developer has not been honest about his intentions. He is planning to build a 3 story function type facility that will host weddings etc. The beach as it is will never be the same. It is also my understanding that he wants to control the boat ramp. The Ellacoya State Beach is a beautful State Beach... that belongs to us! Let's keep it that way. :-) There is a large group of individuals that have joined forces to keep this project from happening. If you are interested in helping.... please let me know.

Well you obviously have not done ANY research. Like I said before, I have seen and have a copy of the rendition drawings for the "Adams Memorial Sailing Center". It is a single story open concept pavillion type building. It is not three stories as you have stated in your post. The Ellacoya State Park and it's current beach does not get touched, so once again you are misstating the facts. The facility is trying to be self reliant and self funded so yes renting out the pavilion for weddings etc certainly would be a useful option would it not??.., or maybe you would feel better if your tax dollars paid for all of it...

In regards to the boat ramp, what boat ramp!?? There's nothing there now! Anything that would be built would only be a welcomed sight to the many boaters looking for a place to launch especially since the demise of the public launch at Ames Farm!!

Do you honestly believe that the Adams Memorial Sailing Center is being built so the "investor" has a storage facilty for his own personal toys as stated in your initial post??... Do you realize how illogical that sounds??...

Dan

[Dean Glow]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.

We were at Ellacoya this past week as we have been for the past 12 years and the park manager informed us that the Sail Club was going to aquire the park beach front. Is this still an option? As a Tax payer and citizen of NH we will fight to keep the only State Park on Lake Winnipesaukee. Please update me. Dean Glow-Brookline NH