Hb 847 Meeting In Concord.

[Island Lover]

The Citizen artice quotes the owner of Thurstons Marina. If speed limits were bad for boating and tourism, why would so many marina owners support HB847?


Jeff Thurston of Thurston's Marina in Weirs Beach is among the local dealers supporting the proposed law as a way of ensuring that everyone can use the lake with a sense that they are safe.

Thurston said he has traveled to Lake George in New York and witnessed that a speed limit can work and not have negative consequences on business.

"I think it's long overdue, and I applaud the insight that was displayed by the House and now this committee. Families and children should feel safe being out on the water," said Thurston.

The Weirs Beach business owner expressed his feeling that officials must act to "nurture" a lake that is among its biggest tourist draws in the state.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

The Citizen artice quotes the owner of Thurstons Marina. If speed limits were bad for boating and tourism, why would so many marina owners support HB847?

Probably because he has no stake in it, all of his lines are small and will not be affected in sales. What does he care? A few of his Cobalts (the ones that don't end up on the bottom) would be the only ones that would break the proposed limit-and not by much.

The opponents list contains almost every dealer on the lake besides them. Here is a portion of the list-mostly marine related:

ACL Industries - Manchester
Adam's Marina - Winnisquam
Andrew's Marine Service - Alton Bay
Atlantic Watercraft Club (charter of American Watercraft Association) - Salem
Averys Auto & Marine - Newport
Back Bay Marina - Wolfeboro
Biggart Marine - Plaistow
Bob's Beacon Marine - Newbury
Browns Auto and Marine - Newport
Center Harbor Dock & Pier Co. - Center Harbor
Channel Marine - Laconia
Dasilva Motorsports - Hampstead, Moultonboro
Dave’s Motorboat Shoppe, LLC - Gilford
Derry Marine & Salvage - Derry
Diamond Shine Boat Detailing - Gilford
Dock Doctor - Gilford
Dover Marine - Portsmouth
East Coast Marine Storage - Epping
Eastcoast Flightcraft Marine of New Hampshire - Meredith
East Coast Performance Center - Salem
Epping Motor Sports - Epping
Extreme Motor Sports - Windham
Gator Signs - Gilford
George's Marina - Dover
Gillan Marine Inc - Alton Bay
Granite State Boatworks - Milford
Glendale Marina - Gilford
Gray's Marina - Enfield
Great Bay Marina - Newington
Green's Marine, Inc. - Hooksett
Goodhue Marine, Inc. - Center Harbor
Hampton River Marina - Hampton
Harpers Boat Restoration - Meredith
HK Powersports - Laconia, Tilton, Hooksett
Irwin Marine - Laconia, Hudson, Alton, Litchfield
Jack Willey's - Tilton
JFG Enterprises Prop
Jim's Mopar Performance - Salem
JP Boating, LLC - Laconia
Lakeport Landing Marina - Laconia
Lakes Region Fiberglass - Laconia
Lakeside Boat Rentals - Alton Bay
Little Bay Marina - Dover
Lucky Lenny's Power Place - Tilton
Marine USA - Milford
Marlin Products Div. Pompanette LLC - Charlestown
Melvin Village Marina - Melvin Village
Miles Marine - Gilford
Moultonborough Canvas - Moultonborough
National Boat - Deerfield
Nault's Windham Honda - Windham
New England Boat & Motor - Laconia
New England Correct Craft - Rochester
Nimar International, Inc. - Walpole
Norm's Marina Inc. - Hinsdale
North/South Performance Boats - Alton Bay
One Stop Toy Shop - Epping
Outdoor Performance Center - Bridgewater
Outdoor Prop Service - Laconia
Owen's Marine - Hooksett
Philbricks Sports Center - Dover
Plaistow Motorsports - Plaistow
Pompanette, LLC - Charlestown
Production Trailer + Dock - Meredith
Professional Mariner, LLC - Rye
R & R Cycles - Manchester
Ray’s Marina & RV Sales, Inc - Milton
Ray Marine, Inc. - Nashua
Rochester Motor Sports - Rochester
Rockingham Boat Repair and Sales - Hampstead
S & W Sports - Concord
Sargents Marine - Georges Mills
Shep Brown's Boat Basin - Meredith, Gilford
Ship Shape Marine Works - Meredith
Shorline CoverWorks - Laconia
SilverSands Marina - Gilford
Sonic Power Marine of New England, LLC - Weirs Beach
Sunapee Harbor Marine - Sunapee
The Trailer Outlet - Tilton
Vintage Race Boat Shop - Wolfeboro
Ward's Boat Shop - Center Ossipee
Watermark Marine Construction - Gilford
Wentworth by the Sea Marina - New Castle
West Marine - Portsmouth
Windham Marine - Windham
Winnipesaukee Motorsports - Meredith
Winnipesaukee Marine Construction - Gilford
Winnisquam Marine - Winnisquam
Y Landing Marina - Meredith

Thurston won't see any of my money going forward...That is for sure.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

The Citizen artice quotes the owner of Thurstons Marina. If speed limits were bad for boating and tourism, why would so many marina owners support HB847?


Jeff Thurston of Thurston's Marina in Weirs Beach is among the local dealers supporting the proposed law as a way of ensuring that everyone can use the lake with a sense that they are safe.

Thurston said he has traveled to Lake George in New York and witnessed that a speed limit can work and not have negative consequences on business.

"I think it's long overdue, and I applaud the insight that was displayed by the House and now this committee. Families and children should feel safe being out on the water," said Thurston.

The Weirs Beach business owner expressed his feeling that officials must act to "nurture" a lake that is among its biggest tourist draws in the state.

Thurston's loses a lot of Cobalt sales to East Coast Flightcraft. East Coast Flightcraft also happens to be a Fountain (GFBL) dealer. It's easy to see why Jeff Thurston likes the bill, it goes for the throat of his biggest competitor.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

The Citizen artice quotes the owner of Thurstons Marina. If speed limits were bad for boating and tourism, why would so many marina owners support HB847?

How exactly do you extrapolate 1 quote to be "so many marina owners"?

It appears that there are far more marinas opposed to the bill than for it. The only marine-related stores that would seem to logically support the bill would be the paddle-boat sellers.

This is about more than bad/not bad for tourism, it's about more needless laws that will go unenforced and solve no issues.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

How exactly do you extrapolate 1 quote to be "so many marina owners"?

It appears that there are far more marinas opposed to the bill than for it. The only marine-related stores that would seem to logically support the bill would be the paddle-boat sellers.

This is about more than bad/not bad for tourism, it's about more needless laws that will go unenforced and solve no issues.

Thurston's is not the only one, there are more on this supporters list.

The Common Man
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography
Hobo Railroad
Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore
Phoenix Leasing, Inc.
Silver Top Ventures
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration
Millie B
Wolfeboro Trolley Company
Wolfetrap Restaurant

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Thurston's is not the only one, there are more on this supporters list.

Funny to see Y-Landing on both lists... Even more funny being that since they sell higher octane gas they are the preferred fillup spot for many performance boaters.

I have heard of Glendale not being a supporter as well, especially being that they are pushing high performance pontoons. When I see Gary this weekend I will ask what their true stance is.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Funny to see Y-Landing on both lists... Even more funny being that since they sell higher octane gas they are the preferred fillup spot for many performance boaters.

I have heard of Glendale not being a supporter as well, especially being that they are pushing high performance pontoons. When I see Gary this weekend I will ask what their true stance is.

Glendale is on both lists as well. Something funny going on there.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

Glendale is on both lists as well. Something funny going on there.

Probably has to do with the age of the lists. I think the one BI posted is HB162 vintage, it looks like the list of "businesses to avoid" that I printed a couple of years ago. The other may be newer. Anyone know which is newer?

[Neanderthal Thunder]

Codeman wrote:

How could he be charged for BWI? No solid witnesses, a restaurant that probably disposed of the real proof that they overserved him (to save their own a** from a lawsuit and loss of liquor license), and since he fled the scene there was no stop to be made. Why is this going to deter drunks that are not using their heads???

The best solid witness that night is the NHMP. The stop and arrest could have been prior made before anything worse happened.

Drunks "not using their heads" will be stopped by the NHMP, before a night crash over 25.

jrc wrote:

Did the police see him get in and drive the boat drunk?

*A MP stop of the boat would still be necessary.

*Without a 25 mph speed limit, there is no way to identify a drunk with the power and speed to kill other boaters at night. A speed over 25 is not trumped up if the results are a warning, a field sobrity test, or the arrest of a drunk boater.

*Woodsy defended him, saying that he was overserved, not up on a plane, and leaving a NWZ. That's "Victimhood". Llttlefield is not the victim.

*Except for a collision with an island or another boat, enforcing speeds would result in the most dangerous drunk boaters being arrested. I don't know how to catch drunk boaters any other way. What police officer would say "I saw the defendent weaving", when no boat takes a straight path on the lake?

*A close up view of the driver's condition would require a police stop. At night, there are just no other means to determine a driver's condition.

*At night, there is no way a drunk can see that the NHMP is monitoring his speed by radar.

*Any poll you post supporting enforcement of drunk driving laws is just handwringing and will continue do nothing to halt 2008's drunk boaters.

*If he's too drunk to obey a speed limit, ONLY a speed limit offers the NHMP any opportunity to stop the nighttime drunk.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Thunder

Codeman wrote:


The best solid witness that night is the NHMP. The stop and arrest could have been prior made before anything worse happened.

Drunks "not using their heads" will be stopped by the NHMP, before a night crash over 25.

jrc wrote:


*A MP stop of the boat would still be necessary.

Why. MP can stop a suspected drunk today, they just have to be there.


*Without a 25 mph speed limit, there is no way to identify a drunk with the power and speed to kill other boaters at night. A speed over 25 is not trumped up if the results are a warning, a field sobrity test, or the arrest of a drunk boater.

Any power boat has the power and speed to kill other boaters at night and an MP can easily stop a suspected drunk for a field sobriety test, no speed limit violation is needed, just articulatable suspiscion.

*Woodsy defended him, saying that he was overserved, not up on a plane, and leaving a NWZ. That's "Victimhood". Llttlefield is not the victim.

Reread Woodsy's post you are misunderstnding it. People are responsible for their drunk behaviour even if another is also responsible for overserving them.

*Except for a collision with an island or another boat, enforcing speeds would result in the most dangerous drunk boaters being arrested. I don't know how to catch drunk boaters any other way. What police officer would say "I saw the defendent weaving", when no boat takes a straight path on the lake?

All a MP needs is articulatable suspicion, ask our favorite LEO, Skip. Yes weaving would do, so would trying to leave the dock before he unties his lines. If an MP was there he would have stopped him.

*A close up view of the driver's condition would require a police stop. At night, there are just no other means to determine a driver's condition.

You keep making the same mistake

*At night, there is no way a drunk can see that the NHMP is monitoring his speed by radar.

Why not a radar detector?

*Any poll you post supporting enforcement of drunk driving laws is just handwringing and will continue do nothing to halt 2008's drunk boaters.

You are right polls don't stop drunk drivers. Neither do speed limits. Look at the roads, speed limits existed for a long time before MADD forced people to pay attention to the drunk drivers.

*If he's too drunk to obey a speed limit, ONLY a speed limit offers the NHMP any opportunity to stop the nighttime drunk.

You keep making the same mistake

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Thurston's is not the only one, there are more on this supporters list.

The Common Man
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
The Common Man Inn

Why not pad that list some more... I'm sure the Tilt'N Diner is a supporter as well. How about the Airport Deli or whatever it is in Manchester that's a CMan property as well..

[Islander]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Why not pad that list some more... I'm sure the Tilt'N Diner is a supporter as well. How about the Airport Deli or whatever it is in Manchester that's a CMan property as well..

Check the opposition list for padding as well. There are many a long way off. And a toy store in Epping.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Islander

Check the opposition list for padding as well. There are many a long way off. And a toy store in Epping.

You actually think that is a toy store???

Epping Motors Inc. "The One Stop Toy Shop"
253 Route 125
Epping, NH03042
603-679-9800

It is a car dealer that sells boats, snowmobiles, and whatever "toys" they get in. They recently had a 22' Scarab on their lot. Not one in a wrapper or made by Mattel.

The list was actually a lot longer, I posted one section of it. The list of opponents is clearly much larger. So is the results of the online poll found here...

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

How exactly do you extrapolate 1 quote to be "so many marina owners"?

I was wondering the exact same thing!!

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

It appears that there are far more marinas opposed to the bill than for it. The only marine-related stores that would seem to logically support the bill would be the paddle-boat sellers.

8 marinas in support of HB 847 hardly compares to 80+ against it!

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I was wondering the exact same thing!!




8 marinas in support of HB 847 hardly compares to 80+ against it!

Where is the list of 80+ marinas against?

I count 8 in support and 7 against.

Winnipesaukee doesn't have 80 marinas.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

8 marinas in support of HB 847 hardly compares to 80+ against it!

Please explain the 80+

[tis]

I think we all need to remember which businesses are for the speed limits and boycott them.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by tis

I think we all need to remember which businesses are for the speed limits and boycott them.

With only 9% of the general population opposed to speed limits, how effective can that boycott be? You can't even get a majority of the Marinas.

[Woodsy]

I know that Thurstons missed out on a couple of Cobalt Sales because of thier position on HB-847.... too bad for them!


Woodsy

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I know that Thurstons missed out on a couple of Cobalt Sales because of thier position on HB-847.... too bad for them!


Woodsy

Woodsy you and I both know that is not just opinion but FACT. Thurstons position directly affected recent purchasers that we both know of to take their business elsewhere.

Shep's will be getting my gas money this summer, that is for sure.

[Woodsy]

I think Thurston's is or will be for sale shortly. They condo'ed the boat houses and a bunch of slips. Thats usually the first sign of trouble.... maybe East Coast Flightcraft will take it over!


I have it on pretty good authority that Y Landing is another Marina that was listed that doesn't support HB-847...

Woodsy

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Woodsy you and I both know that is not just opinion but FACT. Thurstons position directly affected recent purchasers that we both know of to take their business elsewhere.

Shep's will be getting my gas money this summer, that is for sure.

I hope the buyers make it a point to let Thurston's know that! All of the marinas that I use do not support HB847, with the exception of Fay's gas dock. I will make it a point to plan ahead and go elsewhere. I won't do other business with them anyhow. If the walls in that place could talk many would be amazed...

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I hope the buyers make it a point to let Thurston's know that! All of the marinas that I use do not support HB847, with the exception of Fay's gas dock. I will make it a point to plan ahead and go elsewhere. I won't do other business with them anyhow. If the walls in that place could talk many would be amazed...

By the way I used to get gas at Trexler's. Thank you BI for posting that list I have printed it out.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Islander

With only 9% of the general population opposed to speed limits, how effective can that boycott be? You can't even get a majority of the Marinas.

The majority of the general population does not patronize lake side restaurants and boating facilities. That would be boaters. Since most boaters are against the speed limit, the economic impact of a boycott could be substantial. Voting with the majority of the population but against the majority of your customers is not too smart... I think the decision to advocate a speed limit by a lake-based restaurant owner, or a motor boating business owner, will prove regrettable.

Maybe the flood of kayakers will make up the difference though, you always see so many tied up to gas docks, and public docks near restaurants.

[fatlazyless]

Helloooo out there Winnipesaukee boaters...need to access your brain trust...got to know....as this local business was not on either list. What about the McDonald's restaurant? Is MickyDee's pro or con on HB 847?

If McDonald's is against the Winnipesaukee speed limits, then I will regretfully find it necessary to discontinue my $3.24, three-course, less than a gallon of gas, Meredith McMeal!

Please, please, please, tell me that McDonald's is pro HB-847.

Some things are just more important than lunch!

[EricP]

Originally Posted by tis

I think we all need to remember which businesses are for the speed limits and boycott them.

I would be very interested in a list of places that support the bill, and I will boycott them as well. I haven't been in a Richdale convenient store in 25 years (for non-speed limit reasons ) so i know how to boycott. I realize it may be impossible to not go into a business that supports the bill, but it would be my last choice. I am interested in where I'll be buying a boat, and the list will be very helpful.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Islander

Where is the list of 80+ marinas against?

I count 8 in support and 7 against.

Winnipesaukee doesn't have 80 marinas.

Originally Posted by Islander

Please explain the 80+

My apologies; when I looked at the list in codeman's post, I looked at it quickly and, at a glance, they all LOOKED to be marinas. SINCE you are asking, I have gone back and actually counted the entries that use either the word "marine" or "marina" in their business name; I counted 43 MARINAS or MARINE-type businesses opposed to HB 847 and that's not including the other businesses on the list posted by codeman that may be carrying on a marine or marina-type operation and DON'T use either of those words in their business name! Granted, it's not the 80+ I originally thought it was but it's STILL significantly more than the 8 marinas in support of the bill mentioned in the list posted by BI!!

Now, are they all located on Winnipesaukee? No, but if the list posted by BI can contain a marina not located on Winnipesaukee, so can the list posted by codeman!