Proposed Law

[boat_guy64]

Alsadad,

I couldn't agree more. A speed limit has no affect on me at all. My boat will barely go that fast and I rarely do. I also have not been affected by those fast scary boats.

I do worry that our understaffed, underfunded, underequipped Marine Patrol will be burdened with yet another job that will make them less responsive in emergency situations. All of their boats are not fully equipped with GPS and other equipment now and forcing them to have RADAR on board will make it even harder for them to afford the other essentials.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by boat_guy64

Alsadad,

I couldn't agree more. A speed limit has no affect on me at all. My boat will barely go that fast and I rarely do. I also have not been affected by those fast scary boats.

I do worry that our understaffed, underfunded, underequipped Marine Patrol will be burdened with yet another job that will make them less responsive in emergency situations. All of their boats are not fully equipped with GPS and other equipment now and forcing them to have RADAR on board will make it even harder for them to afford the other essentials.

Who is forcing the Marine Patrol to put RADAR on their boats? The MP have been enforcing speed limits on dozens of New Hampshire lakes for decades without RADAR! There are several ways to enforce a speed limit that do not use RADAR.

Plus they have at least two hand held units that were used for a recent survey. I don't believe enforcement will be much of a problem. The speed limit is mostly self enforcing. If a problem develops they can send out an officer with a hand held to set up a speed trap during a few peek hours.

A speed limit sets a standard of behavior for the community. Most people are law abiding. And according the the opponents, almost nobody goes over 45 anyway. So how can enforcement be such a problem?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

...

A speed limit sets a standard of behavior for the community. Most people are law abiding. And according the the opponents, almost nobody goes over 45 anyway. So how can enforcement be such a problem?

So your asking for a law that will stop something that seldom happens from happening, and we won't have to enforce it because it seldom happens.

Why not stop trying to make your arguements sound logical, it's waste of time.

Just keep saying what you really mean and occasionally admit: You don't want fast boats on your lake and this law will send a message to them and drive them off. You don't want large boats on your lake and this law will provide a stepping stone to that end. Why pretend?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by jrc

So your asking for a law that will stop something that seldom happens from happening, and we won't have to enforce it because it seldom happens.

Why not stop trying to make your arguements sound logical, it's waste of time.

Just keep saying what you really mean and occasionally admit: You don't want fast boats on your lake and this law will send a message to them and drive them off. You don't want large boats on your lake and this law will provide a stepping stone to that end. Why pretend?

We have laws against lots of things that seldom happen. And it will happen less often when the law is passed. Plus there will be consequences for the few violators. That is why we enact laws!

Who is pretending? I have never "admitted" I want high horsepower boats off the lake. I state it openly and often. Do I have to say it in every post?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

We have laws against lots of things that seldom happen. And it will happen less often when the law is passed. Plus there will be consequences for the few violators. That is why we enact laws!
...

How can there be consequences if there is no enforcement? You say there is no need for enforcement yet you say there will be consequences, this is logically flawed. Without enforcement, the only consequence is a guilty conscience.

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

...
Who is pretending? I have never "admitted" I want high horsepower boats off the lake. I state it openly and often. Do I have to say it in every post?

Sometimes you openly say you just want high horsepower boats off the lake, sometimes you pretend there is a logical reason to have a speed limit. All I'm saying is stop the pretense.

Just say that you want the high horsepower boats off the lake, because that's what you want. And the speed limit law is just a handy tool.

[EricP]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Who is forcing the Marine Patrol to put RADAR on their boats? The MP have been enforcing speed limits on dozens of New Hampshire lakes for decades without RADAR! There are several ways to enforce a speed limit that do not use RADAR.

Plus they have at least two hand held units that were used for a recent survey. I don't believe enforcement will be much of a problem. The speed limit is mostly self enforcing. If a problem develops they can send out an officer with a hand held to set up a speed trap during a few peek hours.

A speed limit sets a standard of behavior for the community. Most people are law abiding. And according the the opponents, almost nobody goes over 45 anyway. So how can enforcement be such a problem?

How many times have you driven down Pleasant Street over 25 MPH? I actually find it difficult to keep it under 30, I try to stay between 25-30 MPH and consider that obeying the law. Today I was followed up Pleasant Street by a cruiser and I was doing my normal 25-30 MPH thing. I wasn't pulled over. So I submit that law abiding citizens speed. I consider myself a law abiding citizen and I do speed. I drive 93 south every Monday morning from here to rt 128. average speed for me is 72 and people fly by me all the time. I've even had cops fly by me while I was traveling at 72. Point is we'll still have boats traveling over 45 and we'll still have idiots violating the 150' safe passage law. I am less concerned about the boats going over 45 MPH than I am about the idiots not paying attention. Your entire premise is that passing the speed limit will keep certain people away, I believe it won't. You also think the lake will be safer, I believe it won't. I actually think if the law passes absolutely nothing will change. The problems we face are not speed related they are safety related. Paying attention, 150' safe passage, BUI, driving fast through NWZs, etc.. A speed limit addresses none of those problems.

[B R]

Originally Posted by EricP

I actually think if the law passes absolutely nothing will change.

I can't agree with that. I predict Bear Island will see a significant increase in boat traffic.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by B R

I can't agree with that. I predict Bear Island will see a significant increase in boat traffic.

I think you are right. I know that Bear Island is the shortest distance between any two points on Winni. Keep it slow and watch out for kayakers. If I owned Y Landing, I know I'd be offering the cheapest gas on the lake this summer. There is a captive audience just looking for a reason to say hello to everyone on Bear Island this summer.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I think you are right. I know that Bear Island is the shortest distance between any two points on Winni. Keep it slow and watch out for kayakers. If I owned Y Landing, I know I'd be offering the cheapest gas on the lake this summer. There is a captive audience just looking for a reason to say hello to everyone on Bear Island this summer.

If you stop at Y-Landing check out the convenience store while they are gassing you. Tuffy is stocking up on sour grapes just for the GFBL crowd.




Good to know you have forgiven them for supporting speed limits.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Islander

If you stop at Y-Landing check out the convenience store while they are gassing you. Tuffy is stocking up on sour grapes just for the GFBL crowd.




Good to know you have forgiven them for supporting speed limits.

Apparently, the Senators are not the only ones enjoying old timer's...

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Islander

If you stop at Y-Landing check out the convenience store while they are gassing you. Tuffy is stocking up on sour grapes just for the GFBL crowd.

Good to know you have forgiven them for supporting speed limits.

The grapes must be from the same vineyard from which WINNFABS gets its grapes to make its "whine".

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Islander
Suppose a GFBL makes it a habit of going 90 mph around the lake. How many times per day will this be reported to the Marine Patrol? How long will it be before the Marine Patrol start looking for this boat?

That’s a very good question, as a matter of fact your good friend Bear Islander can probably answer it since he posted;

Originally posted by Bear Islander
Boats go through the NWZ at high speed, full speed , ludicrous speed, whatever you can imagine.
...snip...
The most common violator is a very large cruise boat that passes more than once a day. I will not guess at its speed, but I have seen boats being overtaken by it have to go full throttle, in the NWZ, to get out of its way.

Then I posted the following as a suggestion since if that happened to me I would certainly be ticked off!

Originally posted by Airwaves
Just a thought, but it that's a problem out in front of your place, and since I beleive you already have a webcamera in operation, why not point it in a direction that would catch the violation on the web, and at an angle that would show the violator's bow number and/or boat name. I'd be willing to be that if you had these violations on tape and the MP could track them down a visit by a law enforcement officer would help your situation.

Then Bear Islander posted a response via VtSteve (BI doesn’t post responding directly to me any longer since I was so bold as to bring his credibility into question after he claimed time and again not to have posted something that he wrote and he denied it so BI took his bat and ball and went home

Originally posted by Bear Islander
I'm surprised you people are surprised. I suppose I have seen it for so many years it doesn't surprise me anymore. PWCs go through full speed the most, we don't even blink when they do it. I'm sure some have no idea it's a NWZ. One beautiful Cigarette (a real one) would go through at about 90. I thought maybe he was clueless. Then I found out he was from Cooks Point. That is within sight, so he must have known about the NWZ.

We had a neighbor that would throw tennis ball at them, but he is gone now.

A have a few videos but you can't read bow numbers from that distance. I have been thinking of setting a camera up with motion detection. Take a picture of every boat that goes through.

So Islander, that’s a long way to say that you folks that say you have problems with speeding boats don’t have a track record of reporting them!!!!!

Call the Marine Patrol and even if they don't show up you will have a record! In BIs case he knows where one of the offenders docks...yet he certainly didn't say he did anything about it!

I’ll betcha the only thing that gets reported if this bill becomes law is the continued 150 foot violation…but gee, isn’t that already law? BTW, they are NOT going to put a radar post at the NWZ near Bear Island

[fatlazyless]

As many boaters know, the Bear Island Post Office dock has been a Marine Patrol stake-out spot for no wake zone, plus six mph speeders, for years and years.

Today's www.citizen.com has an article on boating and the Marine Patrol and mentions that the MP may be required to enforce a speed limit this summer, depending on what the legislature does. Could the Senate change HB 847 so it becomes effective immediately? Like, why wait till January 1, 2009?

Three cheers to Tuffy and the Y-Landing for operating their little grocery, beer, milk, newspaper, hi-test gasoline, diesel fuel, boat accessories like air horns, bilge pumps, bow eyes, lines, and Suzuki outboards biz.

Do 250hp Merc two-strokes run better hole shots on high-octaine gas?

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

As many boaters know, the Bear Island Post Office dock has been a Marine Patrol stake-out spot for no wake zone, plus six mph speeders, for years and years.

Today's www.citizen.com has an article on boating and the Marine Patrol and mentions that the MP may be required to enforce a speed limit this summer, depending on what the legislature does. Could the Senate change HB 847 so it becomes effective immediately? Like, why wait till January 1, 2009?

Three cheers to Tuffy and the Y-Landing for operating their little grocery, beer, milk, newspaper, hi-test gasoline, diesel fuel, boat accessories like air horns, bilge pumps, bow eyes, lines, and Suzuki outboards biz.

Do 250hp Merc two-strokes run better hole shots on high-octaine gas?

Some Senators have an amendment for immediate enactment. It would have to go back to the House for approval.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Some Senators have an amendment for immediate enactment. It would have to go back to the House for approval.

Did the amendment include the restrictions for Kayaks? They really should be lit and have flags. It's just not safe having a floating log out there, colored or not

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

... I don't believe enforcement will be much of a problem. The speed limit is mostly self enforcing. ...

The people I see pulled over regularly on I93 must be getting parking tickets.

[Islander]

Cars go a little over the limit, boats will go a little over the limit. So What? Who cares? How often do cars go 70 mph on Pleasant St. or 140 mph on route 93?

Suppose a GFBL makes it a habit of going 90 mph around the lake. How many times per day will this be reported to the Marine Patrol? How long will it be before the Marine Patrol start looking for this boat?

[EricP]

Originally Posted by Islander

Cars go a little over the limit, boats will go a little over the limit. So What? Who cares? How often do cars go 70 mph on Pleasant St. or 140 mph on route 93?

Suppose a GFBL makes it a habit of going 90 mph around the lake. How many times per day will this be reported to the Marine Patrol? How long will it be before the Marine Patrol start looking for this boat?

Again, this happens so infrequently it's not an issue. Let's compare how many times idiots violate the 150' safe passage law compared to how many boats go over 50. I have no hard facts for that but my personal observations from years of riding around on my SeaDoos leads me to conclude that the violators of the 150' safe passage law far outnumber boats going over 50 recklessly, and they (the 150' violators) are the ones making people feal unsafe. This is unscientific data, wholly my opinion and observations but I would wager a vast majority of people using this forum would agree with me.