neighbors and dogs!

[TiltonBB]

Sometimes people need to think that they may be what is causing the neighbors dogs to bark. And quite frankly anyone that threatens to kill anothers dog for barking deserves a beating. I'd be happy to lend a hand. Dog attacks are a different situation, but barking???[/QUOTE]

A person may be the reason a dog is barking, but I will respectfully disagree that he is "causing the neighbors dog to bark" If I steer my car into a tree, I caused it to hit the tree. If I light my house on fire, I caused it to burn down. The fact that my neighbors choose to keep an animal in their home and in their yard, and let it become a neighborhood nuisance is definitely not something I caused. There are many ways an owner can eliminate the negative impact their dog will have on others. If barking is a problem for your neighbors, then put a bark collar on your dog. Some dog owners think that it is OK to let their dog out for his nightly ritual and wait for it to bark to come back in. I disagree. If it disturbs your neighbors then you are out of line.

A neighbor has no more right to expect me to listen to their dog bark than I have to take the muffler off of my car and come and go at all hours of the night. The same neighbor that thinks (or doesn't think) that you should listen to their dog bark for an hour at 10PM would be upset if you ran your unmuffled car at 3000RPM for an hour at 10PM. I don't see any difference in the disrespect it shows for your neighbor.

My situation is that my neighbors large, loud dog barks because of their activities. If they are swimming in the lake or docking their boat, it is out there barking. It has nothing to do with me. I am usually inside my house, sometimes with the windows closed and the AC on, and I can still hear this mutt.

I agree that animals are like children, if you can't have them and control them so that they do not negatively impact the lives of others then you probably shouldn't have them.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A person may be the reason a dog is barking, but I will respectfully disagree that he is "causing the neighbors dog to bark" If I steer my car into a tree, I caused it to hit the tree. If I light my house on fire, I caused it to burn down. The fact that my neighbors choose to keep an animal in their home and in their yard, and let it become a neighborhood nuisance is definitely not something I caused. There are many ways an owner can eliminate the negative impact their dog will have on others. If barking is a problem for your neighbors, then put a bark collar on your dog. Some dog owners think that it is OK to let their dog out for his nightly ritual and wait for it to bark to come back in. I disagree. If it disturbs your neighbors then you are out of line.

So if a neighbor is standing at the end of my driveway with their dog pissing on my mailbox post in plain sight of my dogs, which then causes my dogs to bark at them it is my dogs fault or my negligence as an owner??? So if I show up at your house and take a leak on your mailbox post in plain sight of your dog is it then your fault for your dog barking at me or mine for relieving myself on your property which causes your dog to bark?

If you are hanging out in front of my house unnecessarily with a dog and mine barks at you I applaud them. This is not being rude. If they are outside barking for no reason it is clearly mine. This is not the case in our situation.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by codeman671

So if a neighbor is standing at the end of my driveway with their dog pissing on my mailbox post in plain sight of my dogs, which then causes my dogs to bark at them it is my dogs fault or my negligence as an owner??? So if I show up at your house and take a leak on your mailbox post in plain sight of your dog is it then your fault for your dog barking at me or mine for relieving myself on your property which causes your dog to bark?

If you are hanging out in front of my house unnecessarily with a dog and mine barks at you I applaud them. This is not being rude. If they are outside barking for no reason it is clearly mine. This is not the case in our situation.

I think we agree on this point: If I set foot on your property your dog has every right to protect your property by alerting you. I respect your right to own a dog and respect the right you have to protect your property.

If I walk down a public street in front of your house at 10:00PM, I should not have to listen to your dog bark and neither should your neighbors. Dog owners should respect the rights of others to peace and tranquility. My experience is that many do not. The quality of friends and neighbors lives should not be negatively impacted by the fact that someone else chooses to own a dog.

I have found it necessary to speak about dogs to neighbors on both sides of my house, in both cases after listening to continous barking for over 1/2 hour. In both situations the owners were outside with the dogs the entire time and chose to ignore the barking. Sorry if you disagree, but I find that ignorant. One neighbor was polite and put the dog in the house. That was over a year ago and we have not had a problem since. The other neighbor has ignored the problem for the last two years. Things will change this year. I do not intend to put up with it for another year.

[aopel]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Things will change this year. I do not intend to put up with it for another year.

Dennis, you might consider what threats you put in print!

What Dennis has left out of this story is that instead of buying a house he could afford, he bought property he feels compelled to rent out all summer long. So the noise of 10 new renters every week is something we are supposed to live with but a dog greeting is intolerable? Before Dennis arrived, the Fullers were one family enjoying the lake. Now the porperty has been turned into a commercial enterprise, with all the early morning and late night nose that comes with big rental groups.

Not to fear, I won't be shouting about the renters. I can live and let live - and only ask for the same.

[tis]

Sounds like Dennis is going to have to quiet down his renters and you are going to have to quiet down your dogs. I am glad I don't live in the middle of you two.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by tis

Sounds like Dennis is going to have to quiet down his renters and you are going to have to quiet down your dogs. I am glad I don't live in the middle of you two.

Yeah you both have things you can work on. Owning there for years with no issues doesn't automatically make it "alright." A bark or two is fine and getting mad at that is unreasonable. On the other hand letting a dog bark too much longer is not right either (yes, I also own a dog.) I also agree about the renters but not sure how you control that, as the home owner that is. Tough situation and two wrongs don't make a right.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Everyone is acting very civilized... thank you!

Our dog has been trained to stay in our yard at the lake off the leash. Being a Cairn he can be rather suborn at times. Mac would try to push the boundaries. We did not care for leashing him, because there are so many obstacles to get tangled on. So I went looking for a solution. I found Pet-Agree. The reviews were quite good on this product and it was only $30. I did heed the warnings of other consumers and we have not let Mac see the device. So far it works like a charm and now we hardly use it. It does work when he gets too barky. I must admit he doesn’t pay too much attention to it when a duck is invading our docks or when it thunders, which thankfully isn’t a problem too often.

I just found this website that offers lots of ultrasonic control devices for your dog or the pesky neighbors dog. Most solutions are under $100. When you are at the end of your rope, it might be a good investment. If you try something found here, let us know how your choice works.

*Years ago we tried an ultrasonic training collar, which was definitely a mistake. They are good if you don’t mind a neurotic dog. Think long and hard before putting one on your beloved pooch. If you do get one I recommend that you try it on yourself first.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

There have not been too many dogs wandering through from other parts of the island. The first time for both was last year, which really has me concerned. Mac has become territorial and protective against other dogs, which is very worrisome for me. It wasn’t always this way. He was socialized when younger and we could take him everywhere, even to The Weirs during bike week.

Years ago at one of our sons baseball games, a wandering dog became interested in Mac and stuck his nose to his butt and just stayed there sniffing. The other dog did not heed the growling and didn’t back off. This dog was big and I was afraid to get too close to it. I lead Mac away, but the dog stayed stuck. I now regret not taking the risk, but still think the outcome could have been much worse. Ever since this event Mac goes all Cujo on other dogs. Being a 16-pound dog I fear he isn’t going to win a fight against a bigger one. My vet tells me that at age 8 ½ he is what he is and to keep him away from others, which we do. Wandering dogs into our yard could be catastrophic for my little puppers. Even on a leash he could get killed.

Mac was kenneled last November. I warned them that he was aggressive to others. When I picked him up, the woman told me that he didn’t pay any mind to the other dogs. She is sure that he is just protective of his family and stomping grounds. Any ideas? We control where Mac goes, the wild card is a loose island dog.

Thanks!
RG

[Argie's Wife]

RG - if you've reacted to your dog's aggressiveness around other dogs, then you have reinforced his behavior and made it "okay" for him to keep it up (in his mind.)

I've recommended it before and I'll post it again only because it is such a great book to have:

Good Owners, Great Dogs by Brian Kilcommons

The author recommends methods that work - easy to use and based on positive reinforcement. He trains owners to train their dogs. Most of the time, dogs are just being dogs - they are a product of their breeding and environment. This book will even address your situation with your little terrorist and tell you how to correct your behavior so he stops being aggressive.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Thanks for the book recommendation, it's already been ordered.

I cannot say that we have reinforced this behavior, exactly the opposite. A big issue with a small dog is that even a controlled encounter with another dog can result in serious injury or death to the small dog, which makes avoidance as we have been doing the seemingly only course of action.

Hopefully there is something in there to help us.

[Argie's Wife]

You'd be surprised what "reinforces" a dog's behavior - sometimes it's what you do without realizing it (sucking in your breathe or being tense) - not what you say - that makes a difference. I've been around dogs all my life and had to change some of things I did because I learned I was adding to a certain problem without meaning to... I really like this book because it focuses on reward for good behavior - not punishing the dog just for being a dog.

[SIKSUKR]

It sounds like AW is preaching what Ceasar from the Dog Whisperer show reinforces in every one of his shows.Pretty amazing to watch the immediate response he gets.

[jrc]

I did a search for the dog walking topic and found this law by accident. Maybe a little late, not that this topic has turn to dog psychology.

466:31 Dogs a Menace, a Nuisance or Vicious. –
...
II. Under this section, a dog is considered to be a nuisance, a menace, or vicious to persons or to property under any or all but not limited to the following conditions:
...
(b) If it barks for sustained periods of more than 1/2 hour, or during the night hours so as to disturb the peace and quiet of a neighborhood or area, not including a dog which is guarding, working, or herding livestock, as defined in RSA 21:34-a, II(a)(4);
...

BTW I love Cesar's show, but you all do realize that it is TV show? It's not all skittles and rainbows in the real world of dogs.

[jmen24]

Another thing to remember is that your dog will be more aggressive and more likely to have an issue with another dog while at the end of a leash. It feels to the dog like they have no place to go. If you are ever in a situation that "seems" it is going badly (remember that dogs communicate with body language that you and I cannot see) I recommend that you remove the lease from the dog, only if you can without putting yourself in danger. If your dog is a Type A it will let the other dog know who is boss. If it is type B it will allow the other dog to do its thing. Either way it gets settled on there terms without the owners energy getting in the way. There are very obvious examples of when not to do this, but always remember that all dogs have the instinct to protect themselves, humans do not and it is much easier to break up a dog fight after the initial few seconds are over and one dog has taken control. You can get in a lot of trouble trying to prevent an fight from happening. Your emotion connect will infact make your dog more aggressive, so step back and collect yourself before rushing in. It will allow you to put your self in the best position to separate the two animals and keep them apart.

I know that we all want to protect our dogs from injury during a fight, but remember a fight over dominance is not going to result in serious injury (typically). Dogs that kill other dogs have screws loose whether it the owner or something that happened to the dog, but you are always better off removing the dog from the lease and collecting your dog after, than to try and prevent something from happening.

This experience comes from more than 9 years of helping a family member with sled dogs (20-45 at a time). I am not a dog trainer but have been given a lot of information about how to read dogs and when to get involved and when to step back and get an idea of what is happening first.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by jrc

466:31 Dogs a Menace, a Nuisance or Vicious. –
...
II. Under this section, a dog is considered to be a nuisance, a menace, or vicious to persons or to property under any or all but not limited to the following conditions:
...
(b) If it barks for sustained periods of more than 1/2 hour, or during the night hours so as to disturb the peace and quiet of a neighborhood or area, not including a dog which is guarding, working, or herding livestock, as defined in RSA 21:34-a, II(a)(4);

I had always wondered if this was specified somewhere..... I guess in America we do have laws for just about everything....

That being said, as many other have commented 30 mins or even my originally stated 20 mins of barking is no doubt to much....

[trfour]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I had always wondered if this was specified somewhere..... I guess in America we do have laws for just about everything....

That being said, as many other have commented 30 mins or even my originally stated 20 mins of barking is no doubt to much....

"Bow Wow, is usually sufficient"!.... here on the Lake.... However, I am not an expert!

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

It sounds like AW is preaching what Ceasar from the Dog Whisperer show reinforces in every one of his shows.Pretty amazing to watch the immediate response he gets.

Ceasar has mastered the ability to "read" dogs.

I found this interesting and useful. Best to know what your dealing with when you, or you and your dog when out for a walk, and encounter another dog.

http://www.pawsacrossamerica.com/interpret.html

[BGB2]

A friend's wife has two small yapping annoying dogs. Joe, the friend, got a parrot with the idea of teaching the parrot to tell the dogs to "#!x% shut up." Instead, the parrot imitates the barking of the dogs and their telephone. Now he listens to constant barking, plus he sometimes answers the ringing parrot.

There are worse things than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

[tis]

I hate to say it but I don't think your friend was too smart to think a parrot would not learn to imitate the yapping dogs! But I loved the story!

[Nadia]

Originally Posted by BGB2

A friend's wife has two small yapping annoying dogs. Joe, the friend, got a parrot with the idea of teaching the parrot to tell the dogs to "#!x% shut up." Instead, the parrot imitates the barking of the dogs and their telephone. Now he listens to constant barking, plus he sometimes answers the ringing parrot.

There are worse things than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

That's funny, and it reminds me of a really funny bird who belongs to the beloved and missed Pepper. When Pepper went away on business or vacation I would house-sit and take care of her pets. A beautiful macaw named Reeka lives with Waldo & Pepper and their loving little hot dog Fritz. Without any predictability Reeka will imitate Pepper's voice to a "T" and randomly yell "FRITZ! Wanna go out?" And little old Fritz would bumble off the couch, across the floor and go stand beside the door wagging his tail. She would also ask "Want a treat?" Poor dog. He would come out to the kitchen and look around for Pepper, wanting his treat. The bird could really torment the dog when she wanted to. I also remember being at one end of the house and yelling to my friend who was out in the garage changing their oil. I yelled out "Hey Roger..." and after a short pause the bird yelled back "WHAT?" Got us all confused

[Nadia]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Things will change this year. I do not intend to put up with it for another year.

This statement here is a threat, whether or not it is direct or indirect it is still a threat. If what he was planning on doing to change it were a legal activity he would have posted it here in the first place, and not left one to wonder. I would print this thread out and turn it in to the local PD. If anything, print it out and keep it in a safe place. If something does happen to your property or animals, you have a lead for an investigation to follow if the perpetrator is not caught immediately. Anyone who promotes cruelty to animals or suggests violence toward them as a solution should be carefully observed. Some of the most dangerous serial killers, rapists and criminals began displaying cruelty to animals as young children, before their anger turned to humans. It's a well known fact--

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Nadia

This statement here is a threat, whether or not it is direct or indirect it is still a threat. If what he was planning on doing to change it were a legal activity he would have posted it here in the first place, and not left one to wonder. I would print this thread out and turn it in to the local PD. If anything, print it out and keep it in a safe place. If something does happen to your property or animals, you have a lead for an investigation to follow if the perpetrator is not caught immediately. Anyone who promotes cruelty to animals or suggests violence toward them as a solution should be carefully observed. Some of the most dangerous serial killers, rapists and criminals began displaying cruelty to animals as young children, before their anger turned to humans. It's a well known fact--

So............When I tell my children I won't put up with something anymore, that is a threat right? (Sorry, direct or indirect, not sure) I like to help my kids out, so when I make these "threats" in the future I will write them down so they can go straight to the "local PD" I'll make sure that they keep it in a safe place, good advice!

I know that displaying cruelty to animals is how it starts. I sure hope I don't become one of the "most dangerous serial killers, rapists and criminals" Thanks for the "heads up"

Hey, and thanks for keeping this post short. I am really tired from reading all your other posts!

[Nadia]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

So............When I tell my children I won't put up with something anymore, that is a threat right? (Sorry, direct or indirect, not sure) I like to help my kids out, so when I make these "threats" in the future I will write them down so they can go straight to the "local PD" I'll make sure that they keep it in a safe place, good advice!

I know that displaying cruelty to animals is how it starts. I sure hope I don't become one of the "most dangerous serial killers, rapists and criminals" Thanks for the "heads up"

Hey, and thanks for keeping this post short. I am really tired from reading all your other posts!

You have children? Did you know statistically people who are violent toward their animals are more likely to abuse their children? Now you do. Learn something new every day! Do they make bark collars for people?

[pats fan]

Nadia,
This is supposed to be a fun, informative forum. I have gone back and reread TiltonBB's comments and I have yet to find one in which he states being creul or violent toward any animal. What are you talking about? In fact BB's posts are all well thought out, well writen and very intelligent sounding. You are telling him that he is violent toward animals and making threats toward animals? What? I love animals and have always had animals so I would be the first to tell him what a jerk he was if he was cruel to animals. He does not want to listen to barking dogs and clearly states that OWNERS should take better care of their animals. He does not blame animals for any of their barking, he blames owners and says they should be more responsible and considerate. You are comparing him to a rapist and murderer? Are you nuts? Reread all of BB's posts and show me where he supports violence toward any animal or person. Wow. Get back to making this fun and at least be honest with your posts.

[Nadia]

Originally Posted by pats fan

Nadia,
This is supposed to be a fun, informative forum. I have gone back and reread TiltonBB's comments and I have yet to find one in which he states being creul or violent toward any animal. What are you talking about? In fact BB's posts are all well thought out, well writen and very intelligent sounding.

"creul"...."well writen"...time to hire a new rep TiltonBB.

pats fan...I am becoming quickly bored with your futile attempts to cover up your friends misdirected anger, and I am goying to pute you on mi ignour list.

[pats fan]

Nadia,
Sorry for the typos. As you stated in a previous post you are one of the best ever on a keyboard. Not all of us are! If the best you can do is pick apart typos rather than face the issues perhaps a forum indended to kindly debate differences of opinion and all topics in general is not for you. I am not trying to attack you as I have already stated. You don't get that because you always go to the negative. I am not angry, not friends with TiltonBB and not trying to be negative toward you. This all started because I told you how it sounded to the general public to make the comments you made about Erica. Then I followed to the pets thread because I was having so much fun reading the banter between you and BB. Here I just had to defend him because you accused him of being violent toward animals and making threats and I could not see where he had done that. Not everyone will always agree with you, accept that and don't go on attack because of it.

[Nadia]

Originally Posted by pats fan

Nadia,
Sorry for the typos. As you stated in a previous post you are one of the best ever on a keyboard. Not all of us are! If the best you can do is pick apart typos rather than face the issues perhaps a forum indended to kindly debate differences of opinion and all topics in general is not for you. I am not trying to attack you as I have already stated. You don't get that because you always go to the negative. I am not angry, not friends with TiltonBB and not trying to be negative toward you. This all started because I told you how it sounded to the general public to make the comments you made about Erica. Then I followed to the pets thread because I was having so much fun reading the banter between you and BB. Here I just had to defend him because you accused him of being violent toward animals and making threats and I could not see where he had done that. Not everyone will always agree with you, accept that and don't go on attack because of it.

OK I am becoming very bored with you, very quickly but I will try to respond to your post the best I can. FYI I never said I was "the best" on the keyboard. I said I type very fast, which is the reason for my long, long, long, long posts that TiltonBB or "Dennis", has openly expressed his distaste for. Darn! Another thing Dennis doesn't like about me! First it was my avatar, then my signature, then my title, now my posts. What can I do to please Dennis so I don't cause him any further annoyance... Dennis is a grouchy, miserable person who thinks the world revolves around him. That statement has been verified here on the forum and embarrassingly enough, by his own neighbors!!!

Now pats fan, I am not avoiding anything by picking apart your "typos". Truth is, I really don't feel like arguing when the answer to your question is "spelled" right out for you (pun fully intended) in this thread. However, if you insist I answer you, so be it. I am an animal lover, entitled to my own opinion as well. I, along with a large majority, believe bark collars are incredibly cruel and inhumane. How would you like it if I sent an electrical jolt through your body every time you spoke? Dogs bark because that's how they communicate. Not only are they physically tormenting, I have read many studies and articles describing the negative effects these devices have on a dog's psyche. This is where I find him guilty of condoning cruelty. Not only does he say it, but the manner in which he does suggests he would not think twice about treating a human the same way. In fact if you read his responses fully, and not selectively, you will see that he has demonstrated this for us already.

You only make reference to him suggesting I change my choice of words, but you leave out the other insults surrounding this remark. His misguided attempt at trying to make me look like a piece of $#*& in the other thread is for one, off-topic. For second, the result of him pushing a personal agenda and for third, inappropriate. There is a much better way to respond to people. He could have sent a PM like: "Hey, I know your upset, but you might want to change your wording so it doesn't look reflect on Erica negatively". What's so hard about that? Answer: It's very hard when your intention is to humiliate and annoy someone publicly, and make it look like your only making a "helpful suggestion". Feed that BS to someone else please.

Another thing, I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Lobster Pound thread. It's a dead issue. Drop it. Don in particular has asked all forum members, including TiltonBB, to drop the issue. What is it he does not understand about that? Not to mention, I do not work for the Lobster Pound any longer. I would appreciate if TiltonBB would not further affiliate me with the Lobster Pound, or any comments made by their employee's or rep's and vice versa. Don't unfairly blame the Lobster Pound for my behavior. The ties have been severed. Get over it. I am not attacking you. You don't like my responses to your posts so you say I'm attacking you. If you want to make a good argument, I suggest you use proper grammar and correct spelling. It's beyond a typo when your posts contain 2-5 spelling errors each. Spelling and grammar are highly valued in this forum, and it also adds credibility to your argument.

The only thing that made me slightly angry at all was the manner in which TiltonBB spoke to me in the Diamond Island thread. It was almost like being at Stephanie's funeral, and having him come over and tap me on the shoulder to say "Your crying too loud, and too much". It did piss me off. Now I'm not grieving correctly...whatever. TiltonBB needs to get over himself and his issues. People who constantly insult and attack others have issues in their own lives that need to be addressed. I guarantee you if this were to happen in person, or face-to-face, well...it wouldn't happen at all. Although I have made mistakes in the past here on the forum, and in "real life" too, I don't think my post deserved TiltonBB's nasty, cruel response. Stephanie was a friend, and it really saddens me to come to terms with the fact I will never see her again. I made a wrong choice of words, my post was too long, I used too many I's, Me's, and my self's, and I stole the spot light. When indeed the truth is nobody put the attention on me better then TiltonBB, it's difficult to share your thoughts and experience without using I's, Me's, there was no need to bring up the Lobster Pound, and considering the topic we should all show each other a little respect. Especially if this forum is the "friendly" and "kind" one you describe. However, I could be wrong. And I quote pats fan:

"If the best you can do is pick apart typos rather than face the issues perhaps a forum indended to kindly debate differences of opinion and all topics in general is not for you."

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Nadia

[B]Spelling and grammar are highly valued in this forum, and it also adds credibility to your argument.

Really

Originally Posted by Nadia

... He could have sent a PM like: "Hey, I know your upset, but you might want to change your wording so it doesn't look reflect on Erica negatively". What's so hard about that? Answer: It's very hard when your intention is to humiliate and annoy someone publicly, and make it look like your only making a "helpful suggestion". Feed that BS to someone else please.

Hmmmmmmmm?

[tis]

Don't feel too bad, Nadia, I have been criticized for my SHORT posts! I don't ever have a lot of time to be on the computer even though I love it, so I do it as quickly as possible. Personally, I don't read the posts when they are long, I skim them. I was always taught that you lose people's attention when you post too much and I find with me it is true. I, also type very quickly so that part doesn't bother me, but I just don't have the time and figure others will be like me and not really read a long post anyway. Sometimes though, it is necessary, but if it's not, I keep them as short a possible, cut right to the chase!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Nadia

You have children? Did you know statistically people who are violent toward their animals are more likely to abuse their children? Now you do. Learn something new every day! Do they make bark collars for people?

Wow!Reading your last two posts makes me wonder why anyone that feels this strongly about child abuse and preach to others about it would have a pediphile as their avatar.Very strange.