Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

I think I mentioned this very accident sometime earlier in the thread. So to put some balance back into the discusssion it might well be argued that visibility was limited (to ground level) but not "zero" that night and Erica seeing the shoreline lights, thought she was the proper distance from shore. I've run the route I now believe she was taking that night countless times and the shoreline isn't dark in that area.

Just curious about your comment of shoreline lights in that area. Diamond Island does not have electricity last time I checked, so unless someone was running a generator or had a crapload of candles going that island would have been pitch black. There is not a lot of houses in that area of the island either. I have been to Dr. Rock's house before. If you are talking about lights on the mainland I can understand however visibility was crap that night and that would be misleading... Just sayin'

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

"...You have to be a fool not to use all the tools you have, none of them are perfect, all of them can give you false data once in awhile, even your own eyes..."

While in Long Island Sound's notorious fog, I've had occasion to stop altogether and use my ears. Though what I heard was actually traffic noise along the shoreline, I thought it was surf along the shoreline. (No matter, my location was then plotted to suit the shoreline).

I've learned to develop and to trust my senses and among all the senses—to trust my eyes the most.

One example of using those senses was just last Tuesday: Totally unexpected, I smelled cigar smoke wafting off a calm, quiet, and empty lake. I turned upwind and there—about ½-mile away—was an oversized cruiser at anchor!

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...It's equally dangerous to either fixate your eyes on a screen while piloting a boat as it is to have your eyes peeled dead ahead, with no regard to the port or starboard viewpoints..."

I'm at a loss to describe any Jet-Skis or bass boats running onto Winnipesaukee shorelines—especially as their number is so large here!

Bass boats in particular run in dim morning fog: Because of the nature of their respective helms, they are focused dead-ahead all the time.

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

"...the only question here is whether she was legally impaired by alcohol..."

In taking that first drop of alcohol, the first casualty will always be Judgment.

Originally Posted by codeman671

"...that island would have been pitch black..."

It's because of that fact that I proposed that docks be fitted with a blue-colored solar light—right here at the forum in 2005.

There was, of course, the usual skepticism:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...48&postcount=5

I wonder how this skepticism plays out this June?

Point being: Even at the darkest hour—in fog—on a lake—in June—and with the moon in the night sky, the sky overhead will provide a lighter contrast against which to silhouette shorelines.

__________________

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by jrc

I use a similar technique when night boating. You must use all the data you can when boating in limited visibility. That means your eyes, and your GPS or radar (if equipped). I also use my depth finder. If the GPS says it should be 50 feet deep and my depth finder says 20 feet, I slow down figure out what going on. Usually its the depth finder whacking out on something. You have to be a fool not to use all the tools you have, none of them are perfect, all of them can give you false data once in awhile, even your own eyes.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

While in Long Island Sound's notorious fog, I've had occasion to stop altogether and use my ears. Though what I heard was actually traffic noise along the shoreline, I thought it was surf along the shoreline. (No matter, my location was then plotted to suit the shoreline).

I've learned to develop and to trust my senses and among all the senses—to trust my eyes the most.

One example of using those senses was just last Tuesday: Totally unexpected, I smelled cigar smoke wafting off a calm, quiet, and empty lake. I turned upwind and there—about ½-mile away—was an oversized cruiser at anchor!

I hope this wasn't on a clear morning with good visibility Fog is a very real hazard, both on land and at sea.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I'm at a loss to describe any Jet-Skis or bass boats running onto Winnipesaukee shorelines—especially as their number is so large here!

Bass boats in particular run in dim morning fog: Because of the nature of their respective helms, they are focused dead-ahead all the time.

Two points here. I know personally that bass boats and Jet-Skis typically do not run at lower cruising speeds. So you point out that two classes of craft, both that typically run at faster speeds than most (bass boats typically at Much faster speeds, and you say they are "focused Dead-Ahead all the time". So we have craft going fast that never look to the sides or behind them? I agree that they should concentrate the majority of their attention to what's in front, but boats coming in from the port or starboard side, out of their concentrated field of vision can be hazardous to their health.

I'm amazed that these two craft classes, which you point out are in large numbers, haven't been involved in many accidents. Would this indicate that their speeds aren't a dangerous factor, that maybe something else might be in play as to why other boats that are operating at slower speeds, and are presumably in lesser numbers, have more accidents?


BTW, I think your suggestion for lights on docks is a very good one. Excellent idea.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Two points here. I know personally that bass boats and Jet-Skis typically do not run at lower cruising speeds. So you point out that two classes of craft, both that typically run at faster speeds than most (bass boats typically at Much faster speeds, and you say they are "focused Dead-Ahead all the time". So we have craft going fast that never look to the sides or behind them? I agree that they should concentrate the majority of their attention to what's in front, but boats coming in from the port or starboard side, out of their concentrated field of vision can be hazardous to their health.

I'm amazed that these two craft classes, which you point out are in large numbers, haven't been involved in many accidents. Would this indicate that their speeds aren't a dangerous factor, that maybe something else might be in play as to why other boats that are operating at slower speeds, and are presumably in lesser numbers, have more accidents?
BTW, I think your suggestion for lights on docks is a very good one. Excellent idea.

I think one of the reasons regarding bass boats and jet skis not being involved in many accidents might be the fact that jet skis are not legal at night, and there typically are not a lot of bass boats on the water at night. They are usually in bed, since they have to get up so early in the AM to do their fishing!

Another reason for jet skis might be the maneuverability of the craft. They can see all around them and avoid potential probs fairly easily-if the operator is looking around and not only straight ahead.

[VtSteve]

Good points on the night time variances, forgot to mention them. There are countless examples of PWC accidents all over the country every year, no need for more at night. Heck, there are many PWC collisions with docks and other boats each year in broad daylight

As always, there are accidents that are just plain accidents, can't really eliminate them. I would say most accidents are the result of inattention, poor skills, alcohol, shear stupidity and thrill seekers, and I'm sure somewhere down on that list is someone focused on their little screen.

But the fact remains that all over the country we have bass boats doing well north of 70 and they seem to be fine for the most part, and people running over boats and hitting islands that are doing less than 30. Seems to me you need to go fast to be safe.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

But the fact remains that all over the country we have bass boats doing well north of 70 and they seem to be fine for the most part, and people running over boats and hitting islands that are doing less than 30. Seems to me you need to go fast to be safe.

No wonder I have been 'incident' free for over 50 years. I go tooo fast!

[VtSteve]

Exactly

Perhaps people that go faster concentrate more.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

"...what charges should have been brought against the person mentioned in JustSold's recent post...he hit Rattlesnake hard enough to break bones (if that matters)..."

'Never saw any follow-up articles on that Rattlesnake Island crash. Perhaps the damage didn't exceed the newest NH threshhold of $2000.

If he was badly hurt, he could already have missed the deadline for reporting the injury. (And I wouldn't have felt comfortable reporting it in his place).

(That new $2000 threshhold is a very likely reason we don't read of Jet-Ski "crashes" on this lake, and why "Safety" is improving. )

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...I hope this wasn't on a clear morning with good visibility...Fog is a very real hazard, both on land and at sea..."

1) New York's Long Island Sound is filled with high-speed automobile ferries, and I don't trust their use of technology.

2) Those ferries are managed by some who are considered among the demographic already scientifically known for poor risk management of selves—those 26 to 34-year-old boaters. They are also the most likely to use "texting". (Already responsible for dozens of fatalities on land).

3) Fog is normally intense on The Sound and can last all day. Fog keeps those who have built on the hills overlooking Lake Winnipesaukee from a morning view of the lake!

Originally Posted by jrc

"...Accidents do happen, even to competent, cautious and sober captains..."

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...As always, there are accidents that are just plain accidents, can't really eliminate them..."

Radio traffic announcements use "crashes", "collisions", and "roll-overs".

The word "accident" is mentioned 34 times just on this one page! "Accident" has been over-used: I have an "accident" when I injure myself. Perhaps those who have selected the word "accident" are also perpetual supporters of Senator Kennedy's" accident"—and willingly continue him in office.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...There are countless examples of PWC accidents all over the country every year, no need for more at night...there are many PWC collisions with docks and other boats each year in broad daylight

Some areas of the country prohibit Jet-Ski operation within 300 yards (or even further) from shore. One Florida county prohibits Jet-Skis for 12-miles!

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...Perhaps people that go faster concentrate more..."

How about self-preservation?

Bass boats only have about 8 feet of fiberglass ahead of the helm—and not the cocoon of 5-tons to 8-tons of fiberglass we've seen in the collisions with other boats and islands here.

With their vision focused directly forwards—by self-preservation and by boat design—you don't see bass-boaters or Jet-Skiers taking pictures of their wakes. (Or their passengers either, for that matter).

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Never read of any follow-up articles: Perhaps the damage didn't exceed the newest NH threshhold of $2000. That new threshhold is a very likely reason we don't read of Jet-Ski "crashes" on this lake, and why "Safety" is improving.

Perhaps you could explain why the threshold of $2000 applies in this case. As you well know when there's an injury an accident report must be filed. The damage limit doesn't apply. Just thought people reading might want the true facts.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Just curious about your comment of shoreline lights in that area. Diamond Island does not have electricity last time I checked, so unless someone was running a generator or had a crapload of candles going that island would have been pitch black. There is not a lot of houses in that area of the island either. I have been to Dr. Rock's house before. If you are talking about lights on the mainland I can understand however visibility was crap that night and that would be misleading... Just sayin'

I agree that Diamond I is usually very dark, in contrast with Rattlesnake which often has lights, especially that house that has the "runway" lighting. But my reference was to the shoreline lights on the mainland. IIRC there's a mooring feild with a fairly well lit cluster of condos on the shore before you get to Diamond I. Now if visibility was bad enough that these couldn't be seen then you have to wonder about the wisdom of being on plane. If they were seen and she was using them to judge her distance from shore then it becomes a more understandable mistake.