The Marine Patrol Is Ruining Boating

[winni for fun]

Coastal Laker, I disagree. The laws and rules established by the state for their waterways are designed with the intent to protect those people recreationally using said waterways. The marine patrol is designed to enforce those laws and rules, and by extension protect those using the lake.

[VtSteve]

Anytime you put a badge on an ar$$hole, and put them on the water on land, you end up with an ar$$hole with a badge on. It's been a long standing problem from way back, this includes the summer detail cops as well as the MP's.

Since you are such a repeat target, I suggest you find a friend with a camcorder to properly record these incidents. A media person would be awesome if possible. It's too bad that a$$wipes get into these positions, but like any job, they do get in.

Everytime I hear stories like these, I think of the movie Walking Tall.

[BroadHopper]

I and many others have reported abusive incidents with MP officers. Seems to me I have problems with Capt. Boneheads on weekends and the MP officers during the week. I just can't win!

Whenever I am issued a ticket, a phone call to the MP office in Gilford, usually does the trick to avoid paying the fine or court appearance.

One time I had to appear in court. The court date was never sent to me. It's been a few years since.

[ishoot308]

Anytime someone has a problem with a law enforcement officer whether it be Marine Patrol, State Police or local police the absolute best thing to do is make a report in writing to their governing "internal affairs" division. These reports go directly and permanently in their personnel file. If enough of a pattern shows up something will happen. It is absolutely useless to call and complain as most of the time the "good old boy syndrome" will take care of itself and no one will get reprimanded.

Most new officers are "badge heavy". You won't find many seasoned officers that way but there are still some. All you can do is report the ones who abuse the power of the badge in writing.

Dan

[Slickcraft]

We make the trip from Fay’s or Glendale to Welch and back on a very regular basis and have done so for 10 years, my father-in-law for 28 years prior to that. There has never had an incident with Marine Patrol in all those 38 years.
If we have a complaint it is that they appear somewhat lax in enforcing the 150’ rule and also lax in going after those who fail to give way to the starboard boat.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

We make the trip from Fay’s or Glendale to Welch and back on a very regular basis and have done so for 10 years, my father-in-law for 28 years prior to that. There has never had an incident with Marine Patrol in all those 38 years.
If we have a complaint it is that they appear somewhat lax in enforcing the 150’ rule and also lax in going after those who fail to give way to the starboard boat.

In 30+ years of boating on Winni I've yet to be hauled over. The only complaint I can register is that on numerous occasions I've seen an MP boat sit just outside a channel or passage such that to avoid a 150' conflict with either the shore or the MP boat you need to come off plane. A better observation place would eliminate this conflict but still allow the MP to see what's going on. It would seem to be a test but it also creates unnecessary wakes as boats have to come off and go back on plane. As if we don't have enough boat wakes w/o the "test".




I see we're now past the black fly beotching part of the season and into the MP flogging part. Skipped the whole loud MC exhaust session this year it seems. Now someone remind me, is it PWC complaints or inconsiderate wakeboarders next ? I've lost my itinerary.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

...I see we're now past the black fly beotching part of the season and into the MP flogging part. Skipped the whole loud MC exhaust session this year it seems. Now someone remind me, is it PWC complaints or inconsiderate wakeboarders next ? I've lost my itinerary...

Nope, according to my itinerary you pretty well nailed it on the head!

[BrownEyedGirl]

My observations (as a long time lurker before I registered) say the restaraunt forums are next....

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by BrownEyedGirl

My observations (as a long time lurker before I registered) say the restaraunt forums are next....

When do we get to abusing the Massho...es and flatlanders?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

When do we get to abusing the Massho...es and flatlanders?

The Massho.es part is year round.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

While commuting to the island a few weeks back I thought I had invited a visit from the MP. No boats in site. Don't think it was dark enough to require lights but I had mine on because of the dark clouds overhead. I was trying to get back before the rain started and was on plane about 35mph. I went by the MP as the only other boat as far as I could see.

I could not help but think, I set myself up for a potential speeding ticket by going 35 with my lights on. What's the exact rule for when 25mph is the limit? I had gone about a mile before it occurred to me. My contingency plan was to take his picture stopping me with my cell phone so I could bring it to court to show how light it was.

He didn't stop me. What's the rule?

[jrc]

Have you seen this? The MP gave it to me.

[jrc]

BTW I don't think the MP are ruining boating. Like any other law enforcement operation, there are lot of seriously dedicated people working for crappy pay, doing whatever is needed to keep people safe. And yes there are always a couple of meatheads.

There does seem to be a intentional effort recently to use their boats and the 150' rule to either slow traffic or instigate an interaction. I could be imagining it. But a few weeks ago an MP seemed to try and pinch me between himself and some markers, I either had to slow or violate the 150' rule. There was no traffic and no other reason for his move.

Last weekend a MP boat sat at idle in between Belknap point, FL26 and Lockes Island, spaced so that you could not easily pass him without violating the 150' rule to him or to shore. There was no other obvious reason to stop there. He could have moved 200' feet either way and opened up room for boats to pass on plane.

[woodynh]

Don't get me wrong I know there is a need for Marine Patrol and they are very helpful and good at what they do. I am just frustrated over the last couple years and don't enjoy those late afternoon cruises like I use too.

I am curious if maybe they are being told they need to generate as many tickets as possible to protact theirs jobs and not go through a budget cut in a tough economy.

In the 20 years of boating up here I never had them turn around and follow for no reason until the last couple.

I use to wave to them as I passed them as a friendly justure and thanks for doing a good job. Now I am afraid to wave as it may draw attention to me.

I am not trying to bash them I was just curious if it was just me imagining this during the week or if it really seems worse then it use to be.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by jrc

There does seem to be a intentional effort recently to use their boats and the 150' rule to either slow traffic or instigate an interaction. I could be imagining it. But a few weeks ago an MP seemed to try and pinch me between himself and some markers, I either had to slow or violate the 150' rule. There was no traffic and no other reason for his move.

You are right. They are rude. Perhaps that is why some call them pigs. This is a trick the MP pull all the time, and I’ve seen them nab folks with this trick for well over 15 years at the narrows near our place. It is a form of entrapment. Courteous boaters will see another boat coming and maneuver so each can pass the other legally. The MP often shifts direction to force the other to slow down. It is legal harassment, clear and simple. It is just the way some of the MP do their job. I have no idea if they are trained to do this or if it is just their own decision. Of course, it is a fool that does not recognize the well marked MP boats and falls for the trap.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

You are right. They are rude. Perhaps that is why some call them pigs. This is a trick the MP pull all the time, and I’ve seen them nab folks with this trick for well over 15 years at the narrows near our place. It is a form of entrapment. Courteous boaters will see another boat coming and maneuver so each can pass the other legally. The MP often shifts direction to force the other to slow down. It is legal harassment, clear and simple. It is just the way some of the MP do their job. I have no idea if they are trained to do this or if it is just their own decision. Of course, it is a fool that does not recognize the well marked MP boats and falls for the trap.

I can live with all the other situations on the lake. Except this one. The one where the MP boat goes headway speed through the narrows in Moultonboro. This is such a perfect example of how the 150 rule SHOULD be bent sometimes to prevent a traffic jam. I have sat behind a MP boat for 20 min + while idling through there several times. It's nearly impossible to follow the law and ever get up to speed. Even when the lake opens up You are still 150' from the boat behind you. You can NEVER speed up legally because everyone is so tight. I feel they are just there waiting to ticket. Very Frustrating.

[Kerk]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

We make the trip from Fay’s or Glendale to Welch and back on a very regular basis and have done so for 10 years, my father-in-law for 28 years prior to that. There has never had an incident with Marine Patrol in all those 38 years.
If we have a complaint it is that they appear somewhat lax in enforcing the 150’ rule and also lax in going after those who fail to give way to the starboard boat.

I am sure Carl would always obey!!

[winnilover]

I have had no problems with them during the week and I DO believe they are there to keep everyone safe.

Though, if it was me blowing by another vessel at 25 feet at nearly 30 mph I am sure that I would get a a ticket. Would they be responsible if someone was injured or a collision occurred because THEY broke the law ???

[Coastal Laker]

Originally Posted by winni for fun

Coastal Laker, I disagree. The laws and rules established by the state for their waterways are designed with the intent to protect those people recreationally using said waterways. The marine patrol is designed to enforce those laws and rules, and by extension protect those using the lake.

I hear you, but laws and rules don't "do" anything, they are just words, so they don't protect anyone or anything. They are simply the means by which enforcement can react and hold us accountable after the fact. There's nothing pro-active there. To "protect" is a verb, an action that words cannot do. The marine patrol will not be standing on my boat or patrolling alongside "protecting" me from harm by others. How could they? They can only react after witnessing wrongdoing, or after an accident, complaint, or report. Just my $.02. Prevention and protection are two very different words - and you know how the courts are about nitpicking vocabulary.

[hazelnut]

I just had to re-post this story I posted back on May 26th in another thread. I wanted to add this to this thread to compound what I see as a very dangerous trend by SOME Marine Patrol Officer's. This thread prompted me to write an email to the Marine Patrol highlighting my story or stories and including a link to this thread. My request was that the Marine Patrol Officer in Charge discuss courteous boating practices with the officers. I also alluded to the fact that the credibility and overall image of the Officers is negatively impacted by this behavior. FYI it has happened a couple of more times since I wrote this, leading me to speculate that this has practically become standard procedure. I pray that I am wrong.

Here is my story:
Twice..... TWICE this past weekend I saw Marine Patrol engaging in what I consider rude, inconsiderate boating practices. Once in the Barbers Pole area and the other time in the 6 pack/mini-graveyard off of Long Island.

Both times the officers, (different boat and officer each time) were cruising at no wake speed RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CHANNEL. Making it impossible for anyone to pass above headway speed. Now I am all for relaxing and taking it slow but this is downright rude boating. It borders on entrapment IMHO. As if they were daring boaters to pass them. Both times I offered the obligatory shrug of the shoulders and shake of the head. Seriously though consideration goes a long way in both directions. I would never ever ever take up the middle of the channel at no wake speed and I can only imagine Marine Patrol would probably pull someone over for pulling a stunt like that. Not that they would have grounds to but they'd probably give someone a stern lecture for it.

[Cobalt 25]

This same thing happened to me, in the area just described nearby Long Island. I came up behind an MP boat that was idling through that section and passed him. I believe I was more than 150' away as he was exiting the channel. He wrote me up for a fine. I didn't think too much of it and figured I should have waited a bit longer to pass him. Only now, after reading several of these posts, do I realize I was set up.

Back to the opening post, I do believe the Marine Patrol makes it a lot LESS fun to boat on Winni because of their overzealousness. I also feel that when there are young kids in the boat and they see their parents and other adults cringe and get defensive whenever they see an MP vessel, it sends the wrong message to the kids about law enforcement officers. I believe that kids should be brought up respecting LEOs and expecting them to be courteous and helpful, even if they are correcting unlawful behavior. How many boating families on the Lake feel threatened by the MPs and pass that on to the kids? I look back and realize we did, and I wish I hadn't.

Does the Marine Patrol even care that they are seen in a negative light by far too many reasonable boaters?

Peter

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

This same thing happened to me, in the area just described nearby Long Island. I came up behind an MP boat that was idling through that section and passed him. I believe I was more than 150' away as he was exiting the channel. He wrote me up for a fine. I didn't think too much of it and figured I should have waited a bit longer to pass him. Only now, after reading several of these posts, do I realize I was set up.

Peter

An therein lies the problem Peter. You did in fact break the law and you have admitted that. However, the fact that Marine Patrol sits in that area or "idl(es) through that section..." is where the real problem lies. This is what really pisses me off. You'd think that there are enough idiots out there breaking the law without Marine Patrol provoking a potential violation. If I had the badge I'd make it a point to motor through that area in a reasonable manner so that I wouldn't even have a chance to provoke a violation. That's just me, that's the way I, as a civilian, do my boating. I make sure to keep way to the right and anticipate a course that can provide others around me ample space to pass legally. Am I asking too much of my marine patrol?

FYI,

I received a response from Marine Patrol to my email. It wasn't what I had hoped but she did say she had "...addressed (my) concern with various officers who patrol on Lake Winnipesaukee." One can only hope so.

[Lakepilot]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

An therein lies the problem Peter. You did in fact break the law and you have admitted that. However, the fact that Marine Patrol sits in that area or "idl(es) through that section..." is where the real problem lies. This is what really pisses me off. You'd think that there are enough idiots out there breaking the law without Marine Patrol provoking a potential violation. If I had the badge I'd make it a point to motor through that area in a reasonable manner so that I wouldn't even have a chance to provoke a violation. That's just me, that's the way I, as a civilian, do my boating. I make sure to keep way to the right and anticipate a course that can provide others around me ample space to pass legally. Am I asking too much of my marine patrol?

FYI,

I received a response from Marine Patrol to my email. It wasn't what I had hoped but she did say she had "...addressed (my) concern with various officers who patrol on Lake Winnipesaukee." One can only hope so.

Actually he DIDN'T admit breaking the law. He said he thought he was more then 150 feet away.

I was similarly stopped for a 150 foot violation. I am a pilot and many runways are 150 feet wide. I KNOW what 150 feet looks like. The MP was wrong. I believe there is at least one MP who is over zealous in trying to bag people.

[NoBozo]

Does anyone think there might be some AGE descrimination going on here. When I was younger.. over 40 years ago.. (I'm 67) I just KNEW that the Cops were after me because I was young.

Today..I have no reason to disbelieve that theory because lately, ...last 40 years or so, I have not been hassled on the road...or in the boat. I have gray hair and wear my ball cap on straight. Just wondering.

[Airwaves]

I was similarly stopped for a 150 foot violation. I am a pilot and many runways are 150 feet wide. I KNOW what 150 feet looks like. The MP was wrong. I believe there is at least one MP who is over zealous in trying to bag people.

I recall reading on this forum either last summer or the summer prior that a forum member was stopped by the Marine Patrol for violating the Safe Passage rule and was informed by the MPO that 150 FEET was the length of THREE FOOTBALL FIELDS!

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I recall reading on this forum either last summer or the summer prior that a forum member was stopped by the Marine Patrol for violating the Safe Passage rule and was informed by the MPO that 150 FEET was the length of THREE FOOTBALL FIELDS!

Touchdown passes are much easier on those 50 foot football fields you know.

[Toyorelle]

Not sure if anyone was at the sand bar outside Small's Cove this saturday, but a marine patrol officer came driving in going to boats handing out flyers regarding the no rafting rule and keeping 150' from shore. He didn't stop at my boat, I was on the outside near the no wake buoy if you are familiar with the area. I noticed him go to a boat that wasn't to far from me and explained to them that they were too close to shore. The only problem was that the other boater and a few others he spoke to were at least 100' from the 150' buoy's. I don't understand why they were told they were too close. You'd think it would be as simple as not being within the bouy and the shore. Not according to this MPO. There was plenty of space between boats. No violations of the 25' rule. just another reason to bother people and confuse boaters who don't know the rules. it wasn't loud or rowdy or extremely busy like some days out there. Just seems like they are looking to make their presence known and bother people trying to enjoy one of the very few nice days of the year.

[woodynh]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Does anyone think there might be some AGE descrimination going on here. When I was younger.. over 40 years ago.. (I'm 67) I just KNEW that the Cops were after me because I was young.

Today..I have no reason to disbelieve that theory because lately, ...last 40 years or so, I have not been hassled on the road...or in the boat. I have gray hair and wear my ball cap on straight. Just wondering.

I don't believe on the water it is age discrimanation. I do believe that many more stops are made for watercrafts then boats. I also think some officers also have a problem with boats that look fast.

When I got a ticket for boat type it said sped boat. No that is not a typing error that is what it said on the ticket. My boat is a Baja and clearly advertised in big letters all over the boat.

It is 365 hp not nearly as close to a speed boat as what he had with 2 300 hp outboards on the back.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by woodynh

I don't believe on the water it is age discrimanation. I do believe that many more stops are made for watercrafts then boats. I also think some officers also have a problem with boats that look fast.

When I got a ticket for boat type it said sped boat. No that is not a typing error that is what it said on the ticket. My boat is a Baja and clearly advertised in big letters all over the boat.

It is 365 hp not nearly as close to a speed boat as what he had with 2 300 hp outboards on the back.

I agree. I have a Formula with about 300 HP. I seems that MPO's always pick on me whenever I am in a no rafting zone. I will be the first one there. Well away from other boats and fully aware of the rules. Yet they will ask me to pack up my 4 grandkids, 3 daughters and move. Or I will get ticket.

That is why you don't see too many performance boats in the no rafting area. Most performance boaters have the same story to tell.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Broadhopper

I have a Formula with about 300 HP. I seems that MPO's always pick on me whenever I am in a no rafting zone. I will be the first one there. Well away from other boats and fully aware of the rules. Yet they will ask me to pack up my 4 grandkids, 3 daughters and move. Or I will get ticket.

Assuming that you are not violating any rules, I wonder if keeping a copy of the rafting rules on board and the next time an MPO does that politely pull them out, present them and tell the MPO you are confused, ask him/her to point out which regulation on rafting you are violating so you'll be sure not to do it again. I'd love to hear their response!

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by woodynh

I don't believe on the water it is age discrimanation. I do believe that many more stops are made for watercrafts then boats. I also think some officers also have a problem with boats that look fast.

When I got a ticket for boat type it said sped boat. No that is not a typing error that is what it said on the ticket. My boat is a Baja and clearly advertised in big letters all over the boat.

It is 365 hp not nearly as close to a speed boat as what he had with 2 300 hp outboards on the back.

I always keep a wary eye for the MP... and so far ..I have only been approached once (in 12 years) ..at the Wolfeboro Town dock about my through hull exhaust. The MP just wondered if I had mufflers. I told him......"As far as I knew, I had no mufflers". I asked him to come aboard and have a look. He declined. There was no further conversation other than .."Have a nice day".

I have a Donzi Classic.

[Lakegeezer]

Give the MP 1/2 point for an action today. After days of rain, the sun came out and so did they boats. Lots of them! The MP came by, doing their standard "leader of the parade" act, forcing everyone to go slow by moving at headway speed in the middle of the narrows. All of a sudden, the skies opened up and it started pouring. The MP boat moved off to the side of the narrows (where they should have been anyway at headway speed) and let everyone zoom home. So many boats were in the MP parade that it was a mad-magazine scene for a while. Free entertainment!

[Ms Molly McKever]

I think the mp in general do a good job. Better with than with out.

[Cobalt 25]

"Better with than with out." seems to be setting the bar pretty low. Why can't we expect more from this public organization? Lowering our expectations for public service is not an acceptable option, IMO.

I don't seem to hear these criticisms of the state or local police. Sure, every organization has issues and problems, but from what I read from this forum, the Marine Patrol is in a class by itself in terms of public respect. They have a unique opportunity to keep our waters safe AND educate boaters in a professional but helpful manner. I'm not sure that is their mission.

Peter

[HUH]

Ive been pulled over several times for nothing .. Wasting my precious free time on the water.. They realy need to back off on the provacation.. Now in this already depressed economy they are going to have a crackdown..just what the local economy needs..
Marine patrol.. almost useless IMHO
43 years on the lake

[Lakepilot]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

"Better with than with out." seems to be setting the bar pretty low. Why can't we expect more from this public organization? Lowering our expectations for public service is not an acceptable option, IMO.

I don't seem to hear these criticisms of the state or local police. Sure, every organization has issues and problems, but from what I read from this forum, the Marine Patrol is in a class by itself in terms of public respect. They have a unique opportunity to keep our waters safe AND educate boaters in a professional but helpful manner. I'm not sure that is their mission.

Peter

I agree with all of the above. It's interesting to look at the U.S. Coast Guard as an example. This is their mission:

"The overall mission of the Coast Guard is to protect the public, the environment, and the United States economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and United States coasts, ports, and inland waterways." I have spent a fair amount of time in waters where the Coast Guard maintains an active presence. I don't know anybody, including myself that has ever had anything but the highest regards for Coasties.

[travaler18]

I was just wondering if the mps are career oriented individuals that look upon we boaters as families and freinds enjoying the lake.They being there to keep us safe ,making sure we follow the rules and dont get hurt ,by being curtious and polite or stern when nessassary.Like the owner of a business that knows you pay his salery .-------------------OOOOOOOOOOR------------Are they more of the this is just a suumer job ,something to get me by till i can be a cop . more like a bouncer at a night club that would just as soon toss you out for nothing because its more fun . IMO theres probably some of each.Either way they do serve a purpose , I guess.

[lawn psycho]

the easiest way to play the game is to just back off the throttle anytime they are around and 2-3 minutes later they're gone. If you get stopped I would be overly nice so they don't have any reason.

May not be the way you feel at the moment but if you are nice to the fuzz, your chances of them not writing you up go up dramatically. FWIW, in 7 years of boating I have never been stopped for any reason so maybe I've just been lucky.

[trfour]

no paddles and or boat but plenty of cold water under you. Think about it folks. The Marine Patrol does a much better job than could be related to by some in this thread. Love them or not, they are here to do a job. No hitters in professional sports is one thing. Who among us has witnessed a cautious driver while in our daily commute to work! And we say to ourselves, please get this maniac off of our highways.
Life lets us lose some, and also win some. As much that we all love winni.
Let us let the Marine Patrol do their job, and let us do ours!!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

the easiest way to play the game is to just back off the throttle anytime they are around and 2-3 minutes later they're gone. If you get stopped I would be overly nice so they don't have any reason.

May not be the way you feel at the moment but if you are nice to the fuzz, your chances of them not writing you up go up dramatically. FWIW, in 7 years of boating I have never been stopped for any reason so maybe I've just been lucky.

That is the way I feel about the MP. Once I see them, I slow down to no wake. They never bother me. Unfortunately this waste a lot of gas. And my guest thinks I am intimidated by the MP. They are right. I'm not enjoying what I love to do if I am intimidated.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

That is the way I feel about the MP. Once I see them, I slow down to no wake. They never bother me. Unfortunately this waste a lot of gas. And my guest thinks I am intimidated by the MP. They are right. I'm not enjoying what I love to do if I am intimidated.

You aren't kidding. I boat a lot on the Merrimack, and when MP does show up, everyone warns each other, and most just avoid the end of the river they are on. Sure enough, on Saturday one of my buddies got nailed for another one of the "forced" 150' violation. He was cruising along, and the MP put himself in his way with no way around. Ended up with an $80 ticket after spending almost 45 mins with the MP.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

I think the mp in general do a good job. Better with than with out.

100% Agree with this statement. I am usually quite a supporter and defender of the Marine Patrol. This "issue" that I spoke of and subsequently wrote an email to MPHQ about is minor in comparison to the benefit they provide. My email was directed as a notice to provide Marine Patrol with information that could help to improve MP/Civilian relations. Lots of people hate police, marine patrol, etc and this "issue" gives fuel to the fire, so to speak, for those people. If I were an MP director I would want my officers to be the picture of courteous boaters on the waterways. This "habit" that several officers seem to have adopted is discourteous at best. I really hope that, as the email stated to me, this issue was addressed to the MP officers and they change their "habits" sooner than later. It actually benefits the department more so than the civilian boater IMO.