Rat or Otter???

aquabones · 07-07-2016, 05:34 PM

I think I saw a rat swimming by the dock. I researched pictures of both rats swimming and otters swimming, and this creature definitely was a rat. Long tail and skinny face. I'm not happy about this. What is a rat's predator?

tis · 07-07-2016, 05:38 PM

Are you sure it wasn't a muskrat?

aquabones · 07-07-2016, 08:01 PM

I just looked at pictures of muskrats and maybe it was a muskrat. Looked a lot like it. I'm still not happy--muskrat has the word rat in it!!
Now I'm afraid to go into the lake. I wonder if they bite.

8gv · 07-07-2016, 08:38 PM

Better a muskrat than a musk ox...

TCC · 07-07-2016, 09:27 PM

Muskrats eat mostly the aquatic vegetation that can obstruct some boating and swimming areas. They also eat snails that can otherwise be disease vectors. They're part of the natural environment of the lakes region . . . enjoy them.

tis · 07-08-2016, 06:51 AM

I don't worry at all about the muskrats. We have them under a banking just beside our beach. They just had babies and it is so cute to watch the babies come out from under the tunnels. The parents have been busily carrying the foliage to their home all along. When they see us, they move away. Enjoy them. I would love to be able to see their home!!

The only thing I don't like about them is somebody ate my forsythia right down to the ground and we believe it was the muskrats. It was too rough a cut for a beaver.

Sunbeam lodge · 07-08-2016, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

I think I saw a rat swimming by the dock. I researched pictures of both rats swimming and otters swimming, and this creature definitely was a rat. Long tail and skinny face. I'm not happy about this. What is a rat's predator?

Could have been a mink.

Phantom · 07-08-2016, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

I just looked at pictures of muskrats and maybe it was a muskrat. Looked a lot like it. I'm still not happy--muskrat has the word rat in it!!
Now I'm afraid to go into the lake. I wonder if they bite.

aquabones - there is no need for concern if it is a Muskrat ...... as with the numerous fish in the lake, they are more afraid of YOU than you are of them and will steer clear of you accordingly

.

Pineedles · 07-08-2016, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

aquabones - there is no need for concern if it is a Muskrat ...... as with the numerous fish in the lake, they are more afraid of YOU than you are of them and will steer clear of you accordingly

.

Beg to differ on the fish. Rock bass nibble on toes.

Misha888 · 07-08-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

The only thing I don't like about them is somebody ate my forsythia right down to the ground and we believe it was the muskrats. It was too rough a cut for a beaver.

Hungry deer will eat a forsythia too, if there are a lot of them in the area. They've ate quite a bit of my flowers and the neighbors bushes. I plant extra for them . . . I'm a big softie.

tis · 07-09-2016, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misha888

Hungry deer will eat a forsythia too, if there are a lot of them in the area. They've ate quite a bit of my flowers and the neighbors bushes. I plant extra for them . . . I'm a big softie.

Can they eat down big stems?

Hillcountry · 07-09-2016, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Can they eat down big stems?

Deer would eat the tips and buds and they will strip some evergreens in winter...they will eat hosta right to ground level. Think the tops of trees and the tender branches...it's called "browse"
When starving in winter they will most likely eat anything they can reach, often times their wintering areas or "yards" the flora will look like it's been trimmed back above head level.

tis · 07-10-2016, 06:42 AM

The stems on this were about the size of two fingers and they ate them right to the ground. They chewed them down right to the ground almost, but it was a very rough cut. Could deer do that? I have had deer eat my shrubs, hostas and even foxglove but never these before if it was them who ate them.

ApS · 07-10-2016, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCC

Muskrats eat mostly the aquatic vegetation that can obstruct some boating and swimming areas. They also eat snails that can otherwise be disease vectors. They're part of the natural environment of the lakes region . . . enjoy them.

An "old thread" appears here:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=7613

Quote:

I'd always suspected muskrats were around Lake Winnipesaukee, but I didn't expect to hear them, much less have them swimming around my dock while I was attending to my boats!

The two swam around me for about an hour—nose-to-tail in 10-foot circles: One was persistently "mewing" to the other. Sometimes the muskrat in front would turn around and snap at the muskrat following...and sometimes, er...ah...er...ahem...she wouldn't!

It was very still, warm, sunny and quiet out yesterday, so the mewing could be heard for 100 yards or so—even heard a ruffed grouse at a ¾-mile distance for the first time in many years!

They "hauled out" on a log briefly, but I noticed that they can swim underwater at a depth of about three feet—and very quickly.

While they could be mistaken for beaver pups, this file photo is exactly what I saw from only a few feet away: Note the round tail.

Yes, I can now see where the lyrics come from..."And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed..."Singin' and jingin' the jango..."

.

SAMIAM · 07-10-2016, 08:01 AM

Very unlikely that it was a rat. Baby otter, muskrat or mink. Even a small beaver would have the same appearance while swimming.

Hillcountry · 07-10-2016, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

The stems on this were about the size of two fingers and they ate them right to the ground. They chewed them down right to the ground almost, but it was a very rough cut. Could deer do that? I have had deer eat my shrubs, hostas and even foxglove but never these before if it was them who ate them.

Not likely to be a deer that can chew a "2 finger" sized branch but stranger things have happened. I would think a wayward beaver may have chewed them. Was there a pointed stub on them? Beavers will take these types of shrubs and stockpile them under the water near their lodge for winter forage.

Top-Water · 07-10-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

by the dock.

Probably a Muskrat if it was around your dock. Without knowing what part of the lake you are on and what the bottom of lake is like where you are located it could be something else. If you are in an area where there are lots of mussels nearby they often use docks as a feeding platforms if the dock has the right construction features for them to rest and feed at the same time. They will also often use the swim platform too, if it's close to the water line and or lower unit / outdrive on a boat if on the same dock.

Can't say for sure what you have swimming around your dock but if you have lots of broken up mussel shells around the end of your dock, under the lower unit / outdrive or swim platform. Then you probably have a Muskrat. They eat lots of other things that leave less evidence, but the broken up mussel shells is a dead give away. I see them often when fishing very early in the morning when the sun is just about to come up.

As mentioned probably much much more afraid of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

What is a rat's predator?

One of them is Largemouth Bass, big ones.

Top-Water · 07-10-2016, 10:17 AM

Accidental double post.

Not to Worry · 07-10-2016, 03:37 PM

FRIED MUSKRAT
1 young muskrat
1 egg
3/4 c. milk
1 c. flour
1 tsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
3 tbsp. fat
1 tbsp. water
Cut muskrat into serving size pieces and soak 8-10 hours in cold salt water (1 tablespoon salt to 1 quart water). Parboil 15-20 minutes, drain and wipe dry with damp cloth.
Combine egg, milk, salt, and flour to make a smooth batter. Dip meat in batter and drop into hot fat and brown on all sides. Add water to skillet. When brown, reduce heat, cover and cook slowly until tender (about 1 1/2 hours).

aquabones · 07-11-2016, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Probably a Muskrat if it was around your dock. Without knowing what part of the lake you are on and what the bottom of lake is like where you are located it could be something else. If you are in an area where there are lots of mussels nearby they often use docks as a feeding platforms if the dock has the right construction features for them to rest and feed at the same time. They will also often use the swim platform too, if it's close to the water line and or lower unit / outdrive on a boat if on the same dock.

Can't say for sure what you have swimming around your dock but if you have lots of broken up mussel shells around the end of your dock, under the lower unit / outdrive or swim platform. Then you probably have a Muskrat. They eat lots of other things that leave less evidence, but the broken up mussel shells is a dead give away. I see them often when fishing very early in the morning when the sun is just about to come up.

As mentioned probably much much more afraid of you.

One of them is Largemouth Bass, big ones.

So rats would have to be swimming around for the bass to eat them?

We're up near Center Harbor in Meredith. I haven't seen any mussels in the area.
Whatever creature it was, was swimming around in the open water and by the time I got to the end of the dock, he was gone until he appeared next to the dock.

Barney Bear · 07-11-2016, 05:24 AM

On East Bear Island, we have a resident mink family that has been in our breakwater for many years. We have seen muskrats swimming across Smith Cove on our way into Fay's Boat Yard.

ApS · 07-11-2016, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

On East Bear Island, we have a resident mink family that has been in our breakwater for many years. We have seen muskrats swimming across Smith Cove on our way into Fay's Boat Yard.

We have a mink-Mom with six pups this season.

Our shoreline's bottom is littered with opened mussel shells and collected "up" on cross beams of the dock—where they dine. A glance at those mussel shells shows that mink use their teeth to break open a corner, and then pry the shells apart.

I won't say that mink are shy, but I've had them run behind my back as we shared the same 10-inch-wide wooden plank.

The muskrats I've seen here are much smaller than mink.

I watched as the mink-Mom made several trips out from the end of our dock, bringing back a fresh mussel to eat. Had it been a sunny day, the enlarged photo below would have been sharper, but here it is, anyway.

SAMIAM · 07-11-2016, 10:00 AM

Actually, I believe they are fresh water clams. I have piles of shells next to my dock from a resident mink.
They look exactly like a salt water clam but don't think I'd eat one.

Barney Bear · 07-11-2016, 10:25 AM

The Winni "clams" are fresh water mussels. Our young guests dive for the empty shells and leave them on our dock.

tis · 07-11-2016, 11:21 AM

The mink are longer than the muskrats. Our mink runs along the shore and sometimes this year, the house with something in it's mouth. I don't know if it is feeding babies. If so, we haven't seen them yet.

tis · 07-11-2016, 12:37 PM

Not a great picture but can you see where they chewed?

Hillcountry · 07-11-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Not a great picture but can you see where they chewed?

Looks like beaver chewings...you can see where their chisel teeth went to work...almost 100% positive it's a beaver.

tis · 07-11-2016, 02:29 PM

That was my first thought, but I was told the beaver have such sharp teeth that they make a cleaner cut than that. I don't know.... Haven't seen any beaver around here lately, only the muskrats and mink.

noreast · 07-11-2016, 05:18 PM

That is exactly what a beaver does, they make a little spear on each stem.

tis · 07-11-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noreast

That is exactly what a beaver does, they make a little spear on each stem.

The spear I understand. The question is don't the beaver make a very clean cut because of their sharp teeth? These were very rough.

Top-Water · 07-11-2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noreast

That is exactly what a beaver does, they make a little spear on each stem.

Correct, exactly what a beavers teeth would make those cuts look like. They can do that to the trunk of a tree many times the size of that larger branch in the photo.

Just asking / wondering ? are the branches that have been cut disappearing after they have been cut. The big one that you show that was cut looks like a pretty well developed branch that would have had some weight to it. If it did disappear a beaver probably took that down to feed on later.

Maybe you have more than one kind of critter hanging around your place.

A few years back our neighborhood association had to have 11 of them removed from our common property. They can be very destructive when they overpopulate a limited space.

tis · 07-11-2016, 06:11 PM

OH yes, they took the branches with them! All gone!

We have had beaver in the past, but haven't seen any recently. Have been watching the muskrats carry their branches into their den. Sometimes all you see is the bush sticking out of the water moving along. And have seen the mink more than usual this year too. He/she runs close to the house, not just along the shore as in past years.

Kerk · 07-14-2016, 11:28 AM

I have had a Mink in my area for the last couple of years and he/she is only seen rarely. Not a problem for me!

ApS · 07-19-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Looks like beaver chewings...you can see where their chisel teeth went to work...almost 100% positive it's a beaver.

Yes, most likely a beaver. (I haven't seen muskrats carrying branches, but beaver's heads, bodies—sometimes, tails—are easily seen above the water, as they carry their load of branches).

To find a local "Bank Beaver" lodge, look for piles of bark-free, sun-dried, branches on the edge of the shoreline near you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

So rats would have to be swimming around for the bass to eat them? We're up near Center Harbor in Meredith. I haven't seen any mussels in the area. Whatever creature it was, was swimming around in the open water and by the time I got to the end of the dock, he was gone until he appeared next to the dock.

Mink can be hard to see: they're dark and not very big. What you can see, is "the evidence".

Piles of pearly, but empty, mussel shells on the bottom.

Mink take a chip out of the top margin, and pry the two halves apart: note the missing margins in these two discarded shells:

ApS · 08-03-2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquabones

So rats would have to be swimming around for the bass to eat them? We're up near Center Harbor in Meredith. I haven't seen any mussels in the area. Whatever creature it was, was swimming around in the open water and by the time I got to the end of the dock, he was gone until he appeared next to the dock.

You've got mink if you see piles of empty mussel shells where a piling's cross-member is present.

Our dock may hold the record!

tis · 08-04-2016, 06:39 AM

Yesterday as I was pulling out of my driving my mink was in the road! What in the world would he be wanting to eat in the road? A car coming the other way stopped to look. It WAS a very unusual sight!! I have never seen them go in the road before.

Barney Bear · 08-04-2016, 07:14 AM

We have seen a mink behind our cottage, maybe fifty yards from the lake, early in the morning. 🐻

tis · 08-04-2016, 11:31 AM

We see this mink all the time. He runs along the lake and along the house.

greeleyhill · 11-07-2016, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS

You've got mink if you see piles of empty mussel shells where a piling's cross-member is present.

Our dock may hold the record!

We have piles of empty shells under our dock too. Does that mean they live above water under the dock and eat the mussels there? I don't understand why all the shells would be in a pile in such deep water...I thought they lived at the waters edge?

kawishiwi · 11-07-2016, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greeleyhill

We have piles of empty shells under our dock too. Does that mean they live above water under the dock and eat the mussels there? I don't understand why all the shells would be in a pile in such deep water...I thought they lived at the waters edge?

I've come accross mussel shells scattered about in shallow rocky areas while fishing shallow rocky areas dozens of yards from the closest shoreline. I think they eat near where they collect the goodies. On or under a dock or in open water.

tis · 03-08-2017, 07:58 PM

I have an adorable video of otters playing on the ice. It is a mov file take by my SIL, sent to my daughter who sent it to me. I tried to upload it on here and can't. Is it because it is the mov file from the iPhone? I know there is a list of files you can upload from underneath where you choose a file. Thanks.

aquabones · 03-09-2017, 05:00 AM

Would love to see that clip. Maybe someone on this site can help you load it for all of us to see.

tis · 03-12-2017, 07:32 AM

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...1&d=1489321874

tis · 03-12-2017, 07:34 AM

I finally got a picture attached! I am not sure how. I don't know why I have been having such a hard time. I remember it being easy before.

Anyway, these are two of the three otters my daughter captured pictures of. They have been playing on the ice for a while now. So cute to watch.

07-07-2016, 05:34 PM	#1
aquabones Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 74 Thanks: 53 Thanked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Rat or Otter??? I think I saw a rat swimming by the dock. I researched pictures of both rats swimming and otters swimming, and this creature definitely was a rat. Long tail and skinny face. I'm not happy about this. What is a rat's predator?

07-10-2016, 03:37 PM	#19
Not to Worry Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 191 Thanks: 93 Thanked 84 Times in 55 Posts	another option FRIED MUSKRAT 1 young muskrat 1 egg 3/4 c. milk 1 c. flour 1 tsp. salt 1/8 tsp. pepper 3 tbsp. fat 1 tbsp. water Cut muskrat into serving size pieces and soak 8-10 hours in cold salt water (1 tablespoon salt to 1 quart water). Parboil 15-20 minutes, drain and wipe dry with damp cloth. Combine egg, milk, salt, and flour to make a smooth batter. Dip meat in batter and drop into hot fat and brown on all sides. Add water to skillet. When brown, reduce heat, cover and cook slowly until tender (about 1 1/2 hours).

07-11-2016, 05:24 AM	#21
Barney Bear Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 962 Thanks: 498 Thanked 274 Times in 175 Posts	Furry Friends On East Bear Island, we have a resident mink family that has been in our breakwater for many years. We have seen muskrats swimming across Smith Cove on our way into Fay's Boat Yard.

07-11-2016, 10:25 AM	#24
Barney Bear Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 962 Thanks: 498 Thanked 274 Times in 175 Posts	Show Your Mussel The Winni "clams" are fresh water mussels. Our young guests dive for the empty shells and leave them on our dock.

07-11-2016, 12:37 PM	#26
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	Not a great picture but can you see where they chewed? Last edited by tis; 03-08-2017 at 07:12 PM.

07-07-2016, 05:38 PM	#2
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	Are you sure it wasn't a muskrat?

07-07-2016, 08:01 PM	#3
aquabones Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 74 Thanks: 53 Thanked 16 Times in 5 Posts	I just looked at pictures of muskrats and maybe it was a muskrat. Looked a lot like it. I'm still not happy--muskrat has the word rat in it!! Now I'm afraid to go into the lake. I wonder if they bite.

07-07-2016, 08:38 PM	#4
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 64 Thanked 754 Times in 488 Posts	Better a muskrat than a musk ox...

07-07-2016, 09:27 PM	#5
TCC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Wolfeboro Posts: 158 Thanks: 263 Thanked 77 Times in 31 Posts	Muskrats eat mostly the aquatic vegetation that can obstruct some boating and swimming areas. They also eat snails that can otherwise be disease vectors. They're part of the natural environment of the lakes region . . . enjoy them.

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07-08-2016, 06:51 AM	#6
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	I don't worry at all about the muskrats. We have them under a banking just beside our beach. They just had babies and it is so cute to watch the babies come out from under the tunnels. The parents have been busily carrying the foliage to their home all along. When they see us, they move away. Enjoy them. I would love to be able to see their home!! The only thing I don't like about them is somebody ate my forsythia right down to the ground and we believe it was the muskrats. It was too rough a cut for a beaver.

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07-10-2016, 06:42 AM	#13
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	The stems on this were about the size of two fingers and they ate them right to the ground. They chewed them down right to the ground almost, but it was a very rough cut. Could deer do that? I have had deer eat my shrubs, hostas and even foxglove but never these before if it was them who ate them.

07-10-2016, 08:01 AM	#15
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,924 Thanks: 350 Thanked 1,693 Times in 595 Posts	Very unlikely that it was a rat. Baby otter, muskrat or mink. Even a small beaver would have the same appearance while swimming.

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07-10-2016, 10:17 AM	#18
Top-Water Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 674 Thanks: 1,535 Thanked 714 Times in 431 Posts	Accidental double post.

07-11-2016, 10:00 AM	#23
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,924 Thanks: 350 Thanked 1,693 Times in 595 Posts	Actually, I believe they are fresh water clams. I have piles of shells next to my dock from a resident mink. They look exactly like a salt water clam but don't think I'd eat one.

07-11-2016, 11:21 AM	#25
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	The mink are longer than the muskrats. Our mink runs along the shore and sometimes this year, the house with something in it's mouth. I don't know if it is feeding babies. If so, we haven't seen them yet.

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07-11-2016, 02:29 PM	#28
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	That was my first thought, but I was told the beaver have such sharp teeth that they make a cleaner cut than that. I don't know.... Haven't seen any beaver around here lately, only the muskrats and mink.

07-11-2016, 05:18 PM	#29
noreast Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 648 Thanks: 316 Thanked 120 Times in 93 Posts	That is exactly what a beaver does, they make a little spear on each stem.

07-11-2016, 06:11 PM	#32
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	OH yes, they took the branches with them! All gone! We have had beaver in the past, but haven't seen any recently. Have been watching the muskrats carry their branches into their den. Sometimes all you see is the bush sticking out of the water moving along. And have seen the mink more than usual this year too. He/she runs close to the house, not just along the shore as in past years.

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07-14-2016, 11:28 AM	#33
Kerk Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 87 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Rat ? I have had a Mink in my area for the last couple of years and he/she is only seen rarely. Not a problem for me!

08-04-2016, 06:39 AM	#36
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	Yesterday as I was pulling out of my driving my mink was in the road! What in the world would he be wanting to eat in the road? A car coming the other way stopped to look. It WAS a very unusual sight!! I have never seen them go in the road before.

08-04-2016, 07:14 AM	#37
Barney Bear Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 962 Thanks: 498 Thanked 274 Times in 175 Posts	March of the Mink We have seen a mink behind our cottage, maybe fifty yards from the lake, early in the morning. 🐻

08-04-2016, 11:31 AM	#38
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	We see this mink all the time. He runs along the lake and along the house.

03-08-2017, 07:58 PM	#41
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	I have an adorable video of otters playing on the ice. It is a mov file take by my SIL, sent to my daughter who sent it to me. I tried to upload it on here and can't. Is it because it is the mov file from the iPhone? I know there is a list of files you can upload from underneath where you choose a file. Thanks.

03-09-2017, 05:00 AM	#42
aquabones Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 74 Thanks: 53 Thanked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Would love to see that clip. Maybe someone on this site can help you load it for all of us to see.

03-12-2017, 07:32 AM	#43
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...1&d=1489321874 Attached Images

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03-12-2017, 07:34 AM	#44
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,841 Thanks: 764 Thanked 1,474 Times in 1,029 Posts	I finally got a picture attached! I am not sure how. I don't know why I have been having such a hard time. I remember it being easy before. Anyway, these are two of the three otters my daughter captured pictures of. They have been playing on the ice for a while now. So cute to watch.