Handicap docks in wolfeboro...

NHlifer · 09-08-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBR

Good grief! The AMC built a hut at the top of one of the Presidentals at huge extra cost to comply. As far as I know a group got their wheel chair bound buddy up there. Give the handicapped a break.

I think the point here is that the way Wolfeboro has implemented their handicapped boat parking has resulted in nothing more than reserved parking for folks with a handicap placard.

Ease of access for handicapped persons hasn't been improved in any way. The problems of loading and unloading are in no way eased by signs or blue painted pilings on an otherwise identical dock.

It seems to me that common sense has once again been sacrificed at the altar of political correctness, in the temple of "See, I care more than you do."

RailroadJoe · 09-09-2012, 09:26 AM

Rusty If you wade through the Americans with Disabilities Act there may be some info for you there. Unless you or someone close to you has a disability, then you can not appreciate the convenience of automatic doors. Try and go to a McDonalds in a wheel chair, alone. Or try to enter any restroom, with their heavy doors, even with a walker. And if that isn't bad enough, try it with someone who is legally blind.
my 5 cents worth.

Rusty · 09-09-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Rusty If you wade through the Americans with Disabilities Act there may be some info for you there. Unless you or someone close to you has a disability, then you can not appreciate the convenience of automatic doors. Try and go to a McDonalds in a wheel chair, alone. Or try to enter any restroom, with their heavy doors, even with a walker. And if that isn't bad enough, try it with someone who is legally blind.
my 5 cents worth.

Thanks RailroadJoe.

I think that all American citizens (and that includes politicians)want to help make adjustments for people with physical or mental disabilities.
We have a long way to go but I think in most cases we are all trying to do what we think is appropriate.
To the boater who can't find a spot at the Wolfeboro Docks this might not appear to be true. But if you sat in the seat of the Wolfeboro Board of Selectmen while this issue was be proposed, I wonder what we might have done different. Your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

ishoot308 · 09-09-2012, 01:21 PM

They should have some kind of manual hoist or bar hook at the handicap dock to assist with getting someone in a wheel chair in and out of a boat. They have one of these at the Glendale docks and it does not look very expensive and would be a good thing to add to make it a REAL handicap assistance dock.

Dan

NoBozo · 09-09-2012, 03:45 PM

I have not seen the "Handicap Hoist" referred to at the Glendaale docks so I can't offer an opinion as to it's functionality.

Wheelchair vans are common enough and seem to work fine..Owned and Operated by the owner of the van, who has been instructed as to how to use that particular device. On rare occasions I have seen them in use. Each one is tailored to the persons particular challenge.

I would think such a generic (one size fits all) device "Owned" by the town would pose a real liability risk to the town, if say the private individual in a wheelchair was accidentally dropped into the lake...whether through operator error, mechanical malfunction, or just plain bad luck.

NB

PS: It's not like you are transfering a person in a wheelchair from an stationary van to a solid parking lot. Small boats have a nasty and oftentimes unpredictable habit of Moving when weight is transferred around.

chachee52 · 09-09-2012, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

They should have some kind of manual hoist or bar hook at the handicap dock to assist with getting someone in a wheel chair in and out of a boat. They have one of these at the Glendale docks and it does not look very expensive and would be a good thing to add to make it a REAL handicap assistance dock.

Dan

One of my neighbors up here at the lake has one on their boat. They bought one of the first deck boats that I saw on the lake, and the Hoyer is located right on the bow of the boat.

Winnisquamguy · 09-10-2012, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chachee52

One of my neighbors up here at the lake has one on their boat. They bought one of the first deck boats that I saw on the lake, and the Hoyer is located right on the bow of the boat.

This is not mine but here is the setup you are talking about..

ishoot308 · 09-10-2012, 08:24 AM

Here is what Glendale has at their dock...

Diana · 09-10-2012, 10:11 AM

"Just exactly how did the person(s) who needs the handicap dock in Wolfeboro get into the boat in the first place?"

As Chachee said, not all disabilities are the same, not everyone with a disability requires lift assistance. Suppose you broke a leg and were in a full leg cast and wheelchair temporarily, but still wanted to get out on the lake, you would be entitled to a space that hopefully would accommodate your chair and give you space to move around to move yourself to the boat safely.
Suppose you had a parent with COPD and on oxygen who can't walk too far, but they could still enjoy a day on the lake. Or a returning veteran with a spinal cord injury, who has excellent use of their upper body but happens to move around in a chair instead of on their legs. None of those people need lifts, just the right kind of space to access their boats safely.
Technology and common sense (universal design) can go a long way to help us not handicap a person who happens to have a disability.

Orion · 09-10-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana

As Chachee said, not all disabilities are the same, not everyone with a disability requires lift assistance. Suppose you broke a leg and were in a full leg cast and wheelchair temporarily, but still wanted to get out on the lake, you would be entitled to a space that hopefully would accommodate your chair and give you space to move around to move yourself to the boat safely.
Suppose you had a parent with COPD and on oxygen who can't walk too far, but they could still enjoy a day on the lake. Or a returning veteran with a spinal cord injury, who has excellent use of their upper body but happens to move around in a chair instead of on their legs. None of those people need lifts, just the right kind of space to access their boats safely.
Technology and common sense (universal design) can go a long way to help us not handicap a person who happens to have a disability.

Wholeheartedly agree! But how is ANY of the above solved by the reserved Wolfeboro docks. They serve only one unfortunate unplanned purpose, and that is to create resentment among hundreds of boaters looking for a dock on busy weekends all summer, knowing this is only a "reserved" spot and not a true "handicap" spot.

BroadHopper · 09-10-2012, 02:33 PM

Did you know the act was initiated by a Vietnam vet that had difficulty getting around not only because of available disability access but because of the inability to get the govt and business attention to his plight? Watch the movie 'Music Within', it is very touching.

If someone with a disability file a complaint with the DOJ, the municipality or business must respond and provide access for the disabled. That is what happen to Wolfeboro. After looking over the provisions of the ADA, it does not clearly spell out what to be done dockside, but the town must have access available. The way I see it they should designate 30' of dockspace for the disabled with a lift. Wolfeboro designated too much dockspace and no lift. Someone can and probably will file another complaint.

Glendale did not designate part of the dock for disability access, but they do provide a lift. The lift been there for several years and it looks like not designating dock space is an issue. Something to think about.

I reach out to business and govt when I get a complaint regarding the use of NH TRS (Telecommunication Relay Service). The DOJ will give the entity a chance to accept relay calls or suffer serious penalties. If you would like more information on telecommunication access for the Deaf, hard of hearing, Deaf-Blind, or speech impaired individuals, don't hesitate to give me a call at 224-1850 x206 or email: relaynh@ndhhs.org

ishoot308 · 09-10-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Glendale did not designate part of the dock for disability access, but they do provide a lift. The lift been there for several years and it looks like not designating dock space is an issue. Something to think about.

B.H.;

Glendale does in fact have a clearly designated area of handicap dock (see below). It is in the same location as the lift. The poles are clearly marked with Handicap signs and no one parks there without a placard. FYI...I have never seen any boat park there.

Dan

BroadHopper · 09-11-2012, 10:52 AM

I haven't been paying attention to the docks, but I can remember at one time the lift was at the end of the dock open to the public. It looks like they moved it toward the Marine Patrol area. I was not aware of this.

SIKSUKR · 09-11-2012, 11:00 AM

You would have to be a real fool to park in THAT Glendale space without a placard.

NoBozo · 09-11-2012, 11:18 AM

That space is reserved for Handicapped MP Officers.

OR: It's intended to be used for removing Injured Handicapped persons from an MP Boat returning from a Island or Boating rescue mission. (Maybe that person weighs 600 pounds.)

Otherwise a Stokes stretcher would be used to transport an injured victim. No need for a crane

NB

secondcurve · 09-09-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Thanks RailroadJoe.

I think that all American citizens (and that includes politicians)want to help make adjustments for people with physical or mental disabilities.
We have a long way to go but I think in most cases we are all trying to do what we think is appropriate.
To the boater who can't find a spot at the Wolfeboro Docks this might not appear to be true. But if you sat in the seat of the Wolfeboro Board of Selectmen while this issue was be proposed, I wonder what we might have done different. Your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Very true. The individual who led the charge for handicapped docking played the "handicap card". It is very similar to having someone playing the "race card".

jrc · 09-09-2012, 05:14 PM

A the Glendale dock there is the base for a Hoyer lift. These lifts are routinely used to lift wheelchair bound people. The actual lift is not visible at the dock.

There was an article in the local paper about this a few years back.

NoBozo · 09-09-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

A the Glendale dock there is the base for a Hoyer lift. These lifts are routinely used to lift wheelchair bound people. The actual lift is not visible at the dock.

There was an article in the local paper about this a few years back.

Hoyer Lift: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoyer_lift

Check Legal Issues at the end of the article. NB

Heaven · 09-09-2012, 08:25 PM

The accessible dock space was one of the many requirements in a lawsuit brought against the Town of Wolfeboro by a citizen through (the only avenue for lawsuits on accessibility issues) the Federal Department of Justice. There was no option but to have a space properly designated per ADA standards (good, bad or ugly). The selectmen, citizens and businesses had no leeway or say in the matter.

camp guy · 09-09-2012, 09:58 PM

"Heaven" is correct, and I might ask a question that I have heard others ask, "Just exactly how did the person(s) who needs the handicap dock in Wolfeboro get into the boat in the first place?"

I know that one answer is that "they" had an assistance device at their own dock, I get it, but I doubt this is the case in every case, and is Wolfeboro the only port on the Lake they visit?

09-09-2012, 09:26 AM	#2
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	answer for Rusty Rusty If you wade through the Americans with Disabilities Act there may be some info for you there. Unless you or someone close to you has a disability, then you can not appreciate the convenience of automatic doors. Try and go to a McDonalds in a wheel chair, alone. Or try to enter any restroom, with their heavy doors, even with a walker. And if that isn't bad enough, try it with someone who is legally blind. my 5 cents worth.

09-10-2012, 08:24 AM	#8
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,296 Thanks: 2,404 Thanked 5,307 Times in 2,068 Posts	Glendale Here is what Glendale has at their dock... Attached Images

09-10-2012, 02:33 PM	#11
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,587 Thanks: 3,228 Thanked 1,107 Times in 797 Posts	ADA of 1990 Did you know the act was initiated by a Vietnam vet that had difficulty getting around not only because of available disability access but because of the inability to get the govt and business attention to his plight? Watch the movie 'Music Within', it is very touching. If someone with a disability file a complaint with the DOJ, the municipality or business must respond and provide access for the disabled. That is what happen to Wolfeboro. After looking over the provisions of the ADA, it does not clearly spell out what to be done dockside, but the town must have access available. The way I see it they should designate 30' of dockspace for the disabled with a lift. Wolfeboro designated too much dockspace and no lift. Someone can and probably will file another complaint. Glendale did not designate part of the dock for disability access, but they do provide a lift. The lift been there for several years and it looks like not designating dock space is an issue. Something to think about. I reach out to business and govt when I get a complaint regarding the use of NH TRS (Telecommunication Relay Service). The DOJ will give the entity a chance to accept relay calls or suffer serious penalties. If you would like more information on telecommunication access for the Deaf, hard of hearing, Deaf-Blind, or speech impaired individuals, don't hesitate to give me a call at 224-1850 x206 or email: relaynh@ndhhs.org __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

09-11-2012, 10:52 AM	#13
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,587 Thanks: 3,228 Thanked 1,107 Times in 797 Posts	Thanks for the clarification I haven't been paying attention to the docks, but I can remember at one time the lift was at the end of the dock open to the public. It looks like they moved it toward the Marine Patrol area. I was not aware of this. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

09-11-2012, 11:00 AM	#14
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	You would have to be a real fool to park in THAT Glendale space without a placard. __________________ SIKSUKR

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to NHlifer For This Useful Post:
Dave R (09-09-2012), JDeere (09-09-2012), Jonas Pilot (09-08-2012), Newbiesaukee (09-09-2012), Orion (09-09-2012), RailroadJoe (09-09-2012), secondcurve (09-09-2012), Sue Doe-Nym (09-09-2012)

The Following User Says Thank You to RailroadJoe For This Useful Post:
White Rook (09-09-2012)

09-09-2012, 01:21 PM	#4
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,296 Thanks: 2,404 Thanked 5,307 Times in 2,068 Posts	They should have some kind of manual hoist or bar hook at the handicap dock to assist with getting someone in a wheel chair in and out of a boat. They have one of these at the Glendale docks and it does not look very expensive and would be a good thing to add to make it a REAL handicap assistance dock. Dan

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
RailroadJoe (09-09-2012), Rusty (09-09-2012), White Rook (09-16-2012), Winnisquamguy (09-09-2012)

09-09-2012, 03:45 PM	#5
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	I have not seen the "Handicap Hoist" referred to at the Glendaale docks so I can't offer an opinion as to it's functionality. Wheelchair vans are common enough and seem to work fine..Owned and Operated by the owner of the van, who has been instructed as to how to use that particular device. On rare occasions I have seen them in use. Each one is tailored to the persons particular challenge. I would think such a generic (one size fits all) device "Owned" by the town would pose a real liability risk to the town, if say the private individual in a wheelchair was accidentally dropped into the lake...whether through operator error, mechanical malfunction, or just plain bad luck. NB PS: It's not like you are transfering a person in a wheelchair from an stationary van to a solid parking lot. Small boats have a nasty and oftentimes unpredictable habit of Moving when weight is transferred around.

The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
White Rook (09-16-2012)

09-10-2012, 10:11 AM	#9
Diana Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 67 Thanks: 348 Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts	"Just exactly how did the person(s) who needs the handicap dock in Wolfeboro get into the boat in the first place?" As Chachee said, not all disabilities are the same, not everyone with a disability requires lift assistance. Suppose you broke a leg and were in a full leg cast and wheelchair temporarily, but still wanted to get out on the lake, you would be entitled to a space that hopefully would accommodate your chair and give you space to move around to move yourself to the boat safely. Suppose you had a parent with COPD and on oxygen who can't walk too far, but they could still enjoy a day on the lake. Or a returning veteran with a spinal cord injury, who has excellent use of their upper body but happens to move around in a chair instead of on their legs. None of those people need lifts, just the right kind of space to access their boats safely. Technology and common sense (universal design) can go a long way to help us not handicap a person who happens to have a disability.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Diana For This Useful Post:
White Rook (09-16-2012), Winnisquamguy (09-10-2012)

The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-11-2012)

09-11-2012, 11:18 AM	#15
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Just Guessing That space is reserved for Handicapped MP Officers. OR: It's intended to be used for removing Injured Handicapped persons from an MP Boat returning from a Island or Boating rescue mission. (Maybe that person weighs 600 pounds.) Otherwise a Stokes stretcher would be used to transport an injured victim. No need for a crane NB

09-09-2012, 05:14 PM	#17
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	A the Glendale dock there is the base for a Hoyer lift. These lifts are routinely used to lift wheelchair bound people. The actual lift is not visible at the dock. There was an article in the local paper about this a few years back.

09-09-2012, 08:25 PM	#19
Heaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 523 Thanks: 128 Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts	The accessible dock space was one of the many requirements in a lawsuit brought against the Town of Wolfeboro by a citizen through (the only avenue for lawsuits on accessibility issues) the Federal Department of Justice. There was no option but to have a space properly designated per ADA standards (good, bad or ugly). The selectmen, citizens and businesses had no leeway or say in the matter.

The Following User Says Thank You to Heaven For This Useful Post:
camp guy (09-09-2012)

09-09-2012, 09:58 PM	#20
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,193 Thanks: 302 Thanked 528 Times in 295 Posts	Handicap docks in Wolfeboro... "Heaven" is correct, and I might ask a question that I have heard others ask, "Just exactly how did the person(s) who needs the handicap dock in Wolfeboro get into the boat in the first place?" I know that one answer is that "they" had an assistance device at their own dock, I get it, but I doubt this is the case in every case, and is Wolfeboro the only port on the Lake they visit?