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#1 | |||
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Vitabene's post
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#2 |
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I don't live in M-boro, so perhaps my opinion doesn't matter much, but here's my observation. We lived in several different states as a result of job transfers while our kids were toddlers to late teens. As a family with kids considering new towns, our first priority BY FAR was the quality of the schools. Next on the list was proximity to our jobs and infrastructure, such as grocery stores, docs/dentists, restaurants, etc. A community center, and the amenities that it would offer, was nowhere on our radar screen.
If M-boro, (or any town, for that matter), wants to attract younger families to town, then they need to have top quality schools and be attractive to businesses. |
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#3 |
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That was my post- I still use the name of my old boat here, but online most other places use Red Hill. I think I understood OK, but who really knows.
Regardless, the main reason that I have heard that young people are not living here is the cost of housing- we know that Mboro has some of the lowest taxes around, so it must just be geographics/ supply and demand? I also wonder if most people truly look at the total cost of ownership (mortgage/ taxes/ commuting costs, etc) when evaluating. |
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#4 |
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Well, Mr. Shipp and Mr. Punturieri are now posting to the Moultonborough Speaks blog. Perhaps other members of the BOS under assumed names?
Pretty soon there will be a Right To Know request -- who knows. |
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#5 | |
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Russ is on record as stating anyone going on the blog is an idiot. Does Russ go on the blog as "Anonymous". HHHMMM ... Don't know about RTK, but a malfeasance complaint might be in order! |
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#6 |
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I have not followed this issue at all and am late to the party but wasn't there discussion not long ago about the high school being under utilized? Why build something else?
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#7 |
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Study commissioned last year:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByT...5qb2p0VjA/view enrollments history: page 16: 2005 to2015 (year) 658 to 502 pupils Projected: page 13: Projected: 3 year Weighted Average Method 2016-2025 (year) 496 to 425 Projections are probably on the high side. |
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#8 |
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Unfortunately, it is easy for a small group of people to push an idea in a small town. Developing the town, making a town green/center, are all the buzz. The problem is, there is no guarantee that things that worked in other places will work here. In fact, there is no guarantee that things done in other places were the CAUSE of any improvements where they were tried. There are often many things going on that could have caused improvements but no one bothers to figure it out.
It is also unfortunate that people that simply do not want to foot the bill for the high costs of these efforts are branded as "trying to drive young families out of town" and other such derogatory labels. People in the political arena have made everything so nasty. If you oppose me, you must be BAD. Well, I'm sorry but each voter has the right to question all decisions made and vote what their preference is. There does not need to be bad intent, just disagreement. Frankly, the outcome of government decisions (everywhere) doesn't have that good of a track record so having grave doubts about the plans proposed by government is a healthy attitude for a voter to have. If government proposals fail, it falls on the shoulders of government leaders who failed to make their case to the voters. You would think they would know their constituents better than to push things that have little chance to pass. And if it is a small well organized group opposing such efforts, what of it? A small well organized group is pushing the Community Center. What gives them the high ground? They don't have a free pass to propose large expenditures and have them rubber stamped. Other voters have a legitimate say and they did. A government leadership body that doesn't respect the decisions of the voters has no business in office. |
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#9 |
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Today's Meredith News:
"At the beginning of the meeting, the selectmen discussed committee assignments. Selectman Paul Punturieri requested that Bartlett not serve as selectmen's representative to the Capital Improvements Planning Committee(CIPC), saying his opinions at town meeting against taxpayer money being spent for recreation did not reflect the philosophy of the selectmen." "I think one of the jobs of the CIPC is to look at wants versus needs," Bartlett said. "If you disagree with me, if they think the board of selectmen is an ATM machine or Santa Claus, fine; I probably disagree." Bartlett said he did not oppose recreation services, but he was philosophically against using taxpayer dollars for it. http://www.newhampshirelakesandmount...al-issues.html |
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#10 |
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Josh Bartlett would probably have done better at town meeting to have addressed article 2 specifically rather than go off on a tangent about his philosophical view on taxpayer funded recreation. The article had so many flaws that he should have stayed on topic and pointed out the many problems with the plan.
Also, since when are selectmen supposed to advocate the view of the board when serving on a committee or board? This is a ridiculous idea that was probably used as an excuse to dump Bartlett from the CIPC. |
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#11 |
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I was wondering how long it would take for this to raise its head out of the rat hole -- See RSA 31.5 I (a):
"No money shall be raised or appropriated or shall any appropriation previously made be reduced or rescinded at any special town meeting except by vote by ballot, nor unless the ballots cast at such meeting shall be equal in number to at least 1/2 of the number of legal voters borne on the checklist of the town entitled to vote at the annual or biennial election next preceding such special meeting; and such checklist, corrected according to law, shall be used at any meeting upon the request of 10 legal voters of the town. This section shall not apply to money to be raised for the public defense or any military purpose in time of war. In case an emergency arises requiring an immediate expenditure of money, the selectmen may petition the superior court for permission to hold a special town meeting which, if granted, shall give said meeting the same authority as an annual town meeting. " Query whether getting " least 1/2 of the number of legal voters borne on the checklist of the town entitled to vote at the annual or biennial election next preceding such special meeting" is even remotely possible. I wonder whether any of the Selectmen are behind this. Moultonborough Speaks at 10:57 AM: "The BoS have gotten a few references in recent days to a possible " special town meeting"to be called by a petition of 50 registered voters. A special town meeting is any Town meeting other than the annual meeting. I am unaware of the the specifics or if it is just bluster, but it is the right of registered voters to do so. RSA 39:3 states in part: "In towns with fewer than 10,000 inhabitants upon the written application of 50 or more voters or 1/4 of the voters in town, whichever is fewer, and in towns with 10,000 or more inhabitants upon the written application of 5 percent of the registered voters in the town, so presented not less than 60 days before the next annual meeting, the selectmen shall warn a special meeting to act upon any question specified in such application." According to the NH Municipal Association, there is a caution: "Money articles (i.e. articles requiring the appropriation of funds) can’t be voted on at special meetings unless at least half the town’s voters show up, or unless the selectmen have petitioned the Superior Court." Special meetings are not often called by citizen petition, but in the event they are, the process and conduct of the meeting is really no different than the way an annual Town meeting is held. While the RSA above states that the Selectmen "shall' call the special meeting if properly petitioned, if the article to be voted on conflicts with a statutory provision or is not legally enforceable, it could be problematic." |
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#12 | |
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The Special Town meeting "rumors" was especially trumpeted after the rancor at the March 12th meeting. I can personally attest to that.
![]() It had "been heard" that the BoS were seeking ways to "reconsider" the vote. Since the town strife is more about the "Gym" portion of the Center, not the Community" portion, there was a "shot across the bow" to the Select Board. Since the Recreation Department has been the "bone of contention" in this town fight, and the source of turmoil, a caveat was "rumored". So, if a Special Town meeting is called (no appropriation): To see if the Town will vote to eliminate the Moultonborough Recreation Department ... No Rec. Dept. ... No third gym needed! A 50 registered voter petition for a Special Town meeting REQUIRES the BoS to warrant the Special Town meeting (NH law). As long as there is no "appropriation" (money issue) there is no legal requirement for Superior Court approval. If there is appropriation, then Superior Court approval must be had. The concept is the Court wants to make sure at least 50 % of the voters are aware of the money issue, and are allowed to vote on it. The Speaks blog is only parroting what has been sent to the BoS, several times, and the blogger is a Select person. The info is sent to the BoS at no charge ![]() Quote:
No problem with the blog posting. It only means their guard is up and they are getting worried that Special Meetings (plural) might be called this summer when the snow birds get back. Their absentee ballots do not allow them to vote on warrant articles. They will not need absentee ballots in the summer when they are back. The BoS will get an earful, directly! It has already been suggested to some circles, to let the present anger die down a bit, and wait. Petitions gathered in, say, May, for a ,say, July Special meeting/meetings might. be more productive. If I remember the MoBo Town Clerk's rendering of the absentee ballots, there were over 400. That means the potential of an additional 400 voters at the Special Town meeting, that couldn't make the March meeting. ![]() |
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#13 |
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What "threats"???
From the Selectman's blog: 2 comments: Anonymous said... How does this work? Under RSA 31.5 I (a), don't more than one half of the voters on the checklist for the most recent annual meeting have to cast ballots? And the right of the Selectmen to petition the Superior Court for permission seems to be limited to emergency situations. March 24, 2016 at 12:03 PM Moultonboro Blogger said... To clarify and quell any rumors, this post is in reference to " threats" by citizens to petition a special town meeting. The BoS have no intention to call a special town meeting for any reason. If such a petition were to be presented, I am certain the BoS would seek the counsel of an attorney for proper legal advice. March 24, 2016 at 1:29 PM |
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#14 | |
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Only if appropriations (money) is petitioned. NHMA 9. Any 50 Voters Can Call a Special Town Meeting. “In order to petition for a special meeting, you need 50 voters’ signatures on a petitioned warrant article, submitted to the selectmen. The selectmen must call the meeting, unless the annual meeting is only 60 days away or less, in which case they can just add your petitioned article to the annual meeting warrant (RSA 39:3).” https://www.nhmunicipal.org/TownAndCity/Article/600 Special Town Meeting with Court Permission “Under RSA 31:5, a special town meeting to appropriate money may only be held in two circumstances. Either 50 percent of all voters on the checklist must attend the special meeting (which is not likely to occur), or the superior court must grant permission for the meeting in advance. The court cannot grant this permission unless it finds that an "emergency" exists.” https://www.nhmunicipal.org/TownAndCity/Article/377 "Moultonboro Blogger said... To clarify and quell any rumors I interpret that to mean the BoS will not try reconsider Article 2, and do not want a petition to eliminate the Wreck Dept. |
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#15 |
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Last evening's Moultonborough Select Board work session was another exercise in stifling the opposition to the "The Town's got to pay for my recreation" junta.
Two select board members were telling another member how to vote. He wanted to abstain and they strenuously objected. The meeting was streamed: http://www.townhallstreams.com/locat...h/events/29306 The episode is @ 31:00 minutes in. |
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#16 |
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The player may not come up.
Try: http://www.townhallstreams.com/locat...ltonborough-nh Go to left and scroll down to the March 24, 2016 Selectmen's work session @31:00+ |
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#17 | |
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Zoning, zoning, zoning. Each year many towns pass new stricter zoning laws and restrictions. All with good intentions. Nice. All seem to wish that these towns remain beautiful New Hampshire towns. The beautiful old farmhouses, pretty old barns, and save the trees. Trees, trees, trees. Also, don't change the town AFTER my McMansion is finished. I want my McMansion but I don't want any more new McMansions to "ruin" the woodsy scenic views I have. Just one example of many others. Don't build any homes on the mountains. Don't want my view of the mountains obstructed by some new house. Private property is private property. Whether on lowlands or highlands. But let's restrict the highlands. Have the government/people pass laws to prevent hillside construction thus lowering the value of some private property. That's OK. Right? Let's zone all vacant land so that no new businesses can construct or move in. And some wonder why there are few good paying jobs available locally. Cruz Con is OK as that is a nice pretty building. But we don't want any new ugly buildings - whatever that means. Here in my town, the minimum zoning for a home is one acre. You can't build a home unless the lot has one acre. OK. BUT, then the town/people ADD a caveat. The lot must be one acre of "buildable" land. More restrictions. So that one acre that your grandparents were saving cannot now but built on as it has a 20 feet by 20 feet "dip" in it that may "hold" some water in the Spring time. That "dip" may be construed by some as wetlands. Making that one acre lot Not buildable. An extreme example. yes, but that is where some are heading. So some wonder why younger families are not moving into these small towns. Some towns now have committees seeking solutions to workforce housing or affordable housing to bring in families. Yet other will scream that we don't want any low cost housing as it brings in "poor" people or the undesirable people - whatever that means. So each year some questions why the towns population is aging and why the school population is declining. All the while questioning why the per pupil costs go up. But this post is not about schools. This post is not about schools. Stated twice on purpose. Take that school debate to another thread or another forum. This post is about the big picture of the towns we reside in. Back to the Recreation Complex. The Town Meeting does restrict the number of participants. Some like this just for this fact. Bring in an organized few and the $20,000,000 (twenty million) dollar budget passes by 27 votes. Yes, this is fine. Except many can't sit thru a 3-6 hour meeting. Many can't show up for other reasons. The only answer is SB2. One day, all day, voting. Including absentee voting. Each item will pass or fail on it's own merits. More citizens voting is more democracy. The more people voting is better isn't it? |
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#18 |
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Zoning at local level v. statute; pluses and minuses
Effective June 2017 "Additional Dwelling Units" http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill...txtFormat=html What does the town want? Younger families .... what younger families? NH is no different than the rest of the country. The boomers are called that for a reason. Population demographics are the only reality, and are dynamic to the whole population. If the town in question is Moultonborough, you have a reason to question sanity. There's one selectman with his private soapbox, censored to all who disagree with his omniscience. You've got another selectman who should be the Recreation Director. Two more "select" persons (select all right) who have to check with which way the wind is blowing before acting. And one with common sense, who is ostracized and belittled by the junta. In total agreement about SB-2, and would add, an Official Budget Committee, not Advisory, is needed. It won't happen in Moultonborough. Most folks do not understand what SB-w2 actually is/does. The junta will never allow either to erode their "power". There's another option that allows for snow birds, and others that cannot make the March town meetings, and have not been able to vote on town issues. It's the "Special Town Meeting" required to be called by the Select Board when 50 registered voters file a petition. Leave out any "appropriations" (budget stuff) and it does not need Superior Court approval. If you put appropriations in the petition, then the statutes require the Superior Court to ascertain at least 50% of the eligible voter be able to vote. Never going to happen. Moultonborough has @ 3,700 -3,900 registered voters. There's no way a couple thousand are going to be there. No appropriations, then it's like any other town meeting. So, make the un-appropriated 50 registered voter petition. If funding is needed, let the Select Board bring it up at the next Annual town meeting in March, or find funding elsewhere. LET THEM WORRY ABOUT THE FUNDING. They'll have to come back to the Town for approval. Also, before someone asks. SB-2 cannot be voted on at a Special Town Meeting. It must be done the Annual Town Meeting. |
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#19 |
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I should have mentioned "Additional" is equivalent to "Accessory"
I should have added that the Special Town Meeting should be petitioned for a summer month, or such when the snow birds are back. |
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#20 | |
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On a totally different topic, it appears that the Moultonboro Blogger aka the selectman with a soapbox for personal use only, has started again on his agenda for the CC/Gym that was dealt a huge defeat at the recent town meeting. He now is pushing for the rec dept agenda and states that usage numbers have been supplied by the rec dept director. Blogger knows for a fact that his statement is totally false as evidenced by Al Hume's comment plus numerous other instances where the rec director has not been held accountable. He is correct in stating that a lot of misinformation has been thrown around but he cannot bring himself to admit that he has been one of the ones most responsible for the misinformation. His power point presentation given months ago about the proposed facility included a slide that said that based on the UNH survey the MAJORITY of residents did not want a new gym, etc. Why then is he so angry that his pet agenda was soundly rejected? |
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#21 |
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Actually Moultonborough zoning is at minimum lot size, page 3 of :
file:///C:/Users/Joseph/AppData/Local/Temp/ZONING%20ORDINANCE%20Final%20adopted%2003-11-15.pdf " Larger lot sizes may be required in accordance with the characteristics of each lot. Square footage is set forth as the minimum per dwelling unit required, and no less than 40,000 square feet shall be permitted for each lot, whether or not the lot contains a septic system. The Town is divided into residential/agricultural zone and three commercial zones, as defined in .... As stated, blogger is at it again. This weeks Town Administrator report shows the blogger and the Rec. Director, discussed the towns summer programs. I guess he's appointed himself as the recreation guru. He wants Al Hume off the Recreation Advisory Board. Al doesn't bow down and kiss junta feet. al should ell him them what to kiss! ![]() As Sue Doe-Nym, rightfully point out, blogger made up the "stats" for his presentation and then expanded his creativity for his second presentation. Motto: If ya can't dazzle 'em with brilliance ... baffle 'em with bull****! |
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#22 |
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This is what my Selectman has to say about those who disagree with him and put their disagreement and opinions in a public forum.
"Anonymous said... Don't know where to put this. The blog has become a kinder, gentler forum of late and that is a good thing. Don't be discouraged by the handful of blowhards. You are greatly appreciated. March 31, 2016 at 9:49 PM Moultonboro Blogger said... The blowhards have apparently not yet finished their smear and lies campaign, just moved it elsewhere because they are not allowed here. They just can't seem to accept any responsibility for the consequences their actions have caused. The idle threats, the accusations, the ignorant comments, pretty sophomoric. Mostly they are becoming the butt of running jokes. A sad bunch. April 3, 2016 at 7:47 PM" Election time next year, with the right to cast absentee ballots when voting for the Selectmen who are up for reelection, namely Messrs. Blogger and Wakefield, should be interesting. |
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#23 | |
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Does he actually believe all the bloviating he does on his personal soapbox? Smears ... lies ... idle threats ... He's gone off the deep end! |
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#24 |
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I would treat the comment as a badge of honor.
![]() Moultonboro Blogger said... Only took about 4 minutes "wrongislander". Gee, wonder who that could be? April 3, 2016 at 8:31 PM Post a Comment |
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#25 |
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It's nice posting here, on a blog that has published rules, and allows comment, with no preconceived requirement to bowing to the blogger.
Strange phenomenon, not having a webmaster, blogger, be the prime commenter, and preaching perceived realities. Others see the same as dilutions! |
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#26 | |
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Looks like the only posting, on the so-called MoBo blog is the blogger's!
Something about a Napoleonic complex. Consecutive comments on the same thread: Quote:
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#27 | |
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Someone was allowed to ask a question on the blog, and an opportunity for quite a response. I may be repeating myself, but ... I was the "well organized group" that Called the Question. I had notified the Town Moderator and the BoS, as well earlier, that I would not be submitting an amendment to Article 2, as previously emailed to them. The wife and I had received news, that we might not be able to attend the Town meeting due to unforeseen family issues. I left the Town Meeting right after I got up, and made the motion to Call the Question, and voted. I was congratulated and thanked by numerous folks on the way out. Folks that I don't know. I noticed, in the parking lot, there were many leaving, as well, having voted. I had not even premeditated the motion. I had expected to get there, vote and get out. What happened was, one by one, the BoS started to give (on stage) lengthy, written speeches about why everyone should vote yes. At the third BoS member (of 5) I was standing at the mike ready to end the agony of the audience. The majority of the audience, obviously, agreed, the motion overwhelmingly passed. I had no idea it would cause such a "hissy-fit" by our illustrious BoS! The consequence and fiasco ...????????????? The public prevailed! The misinformation was/is spread by the blog and its lemmings. |
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#28 |
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Wait until the Blogger sees what a real "premeditated" move is come next March. Many people have a long memory about the misinformation dumped on them by the Blogger and can't wait to show their real opinion in the voting booth. Most likely Joel will be running again and he should have no trouble getting elected.
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#29 | |
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Election results: http://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Page...s/2288_001.pdf |
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Interesting thread. Joel's had his turn. Time for new blood and new ideas. What's the story with the Moultonboro Speaks blog? Has someone else taken it over?
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#31 | |
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There may be a problem with his perception of "select", however. He doesn't tolerate, nor accept opposing views. He may soon, however, to try to revive the participation. He'll post a token different view. It might be his own "anonymous" post to his own blog, incognito! Ya Right! He may be confusing "select" as some kind of anointment from God. The use of "I", "me", "mine" may be an indicator of issues. |
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Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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