Meredith Neck-Proposed development...

[fatlazyless]

Well, all the local wild animals have the nearby Camp Monotomy property, a 90-acre forested and fielded land space with something like 2000' Lake Winnipesaukee waterfront and nobody ever ever there. All the wild animals are already very familiar with Camp Menotomy and are by far the primary occupants of this Girl Scouts of America camp property.

Just last week, I was slowly droving down Cattle Landing Rd and followed from a distance of about 100-yards a herd of about 25 deer who were slowly walking down the road in front of the Gypsy Camp construction and watched them head into the woods across from former Gypsy Camp, and up the slope.

So, they were maybe travelling from Camp Menotomy over to the 53.5-acre Harris Rd/Cushing Rd/Happy Homes Rd undeveloped land, there. 25 deer is a lot of deer in one herd, and I counted them carefully as best I could.

[garysanfran]

Camp Monotomy went from an active camp, where the girls went to live in the wild for a week or two, to a private venue for private parties...weddings, etc.

How long will that last before the current owners want to downsize completely and sell the place for more development on Meredith Neck where the infrastructure can't keep up with the current density? Coming down Pleasant St. to Rt. 25 on a summer weekend is already unpleasant.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved Paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And then charged the people
A dollar and half just to see 'em

[Descant]

I seem to recall a thread a few years ago about Camp Menotomy--the land etc, not stories about campers. It seemed then that there were some good reasons the GS Council did not want to sell. They've been closed a long time. I remember dropping anchor in that cove and spending the night when it was still legal to do so.

[fatlazyless]

Sometime, one to two years ago while at a pickleball session in Meredith, I got into a conversation with someone who seemed to be familiar with the Camp Menotomy property.

I was told the Girl Scouts have a 99-year, one dollar/year lease on this property, and it is designed to go through a NH probate court when the lease is up, after the 99-year life of the lease.

So, while the Girl Scouts have use and occupancy, they do not have ownership and may not sell it.

Do they pay any property taxes? I do not know? I mean the Girl Scouts and not the wild animals who are the real occupants ...... ha-ha-ha! .... .... For the wild animals ..... it is a very beautiful property ..... especially the large swamp land area that is frequently flooded. For a deer that swampy area must be like a deer heaven, or something, plus it's all posted, no hunting - no trespassing!

[frank m.]

Originally Posted by Descant

I seem to recall a thread a few years ago about Camp Menotomy--the land etc, not stories about campers. It seemed then that there were some good reasons the GS Council did not want to sell. They've been closed a long time. I remember dropping anchor in that cove and spending the night when it was still legal to do so.

I am almost an abutter to Menotomy and I got worried when they shut down their normal operations a while back. I spoke to the Director down in MA and my fears were calmed. She told me that the land had been granted to them for "Girl Scouting" and that any other use would result in the property going back to the heirs of the grantor. And they could not sell it... could only go back to their heirs. And as a non-profit, they pay no taxes. The little bit they pay for power, upkeep, and insurance was offset by the rent they get from a few weekend events by individual girl scout troops. She assured me that their is no incentive for them to do anything except keep everything exactly as is until/unless girl scouting has a resurgence and the previous normal operations could be resumed.

[ApS]

Notice Shore Things is back?

With a new name?

Close to one I'd suggested--but better?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ApS

Notice Shore Things is back?

With a new name?

Close to one I'd suggested--but better?

I would call that a big plus for this site. Her answers are always well written and supported by facts and applicable regulations.

I have had some dealings with her and found her to be very up front about what is, and is not, permissible.

I hope she continues to weigh in when necessary to keep discussions about waterfront issues on the correct path.

[garysanfran]

The Town Planners were not very accepting of public comments and were very vague on what the plans are there.

There were over 30 virtual attendees and we sat on the phone for 4 hrs. until this issue was addressed. A move I believe was to weed out those too tired to remain on the phone until 11 pm. It was only 8 pm my time and I was exhausted.

They had my mailing address wrong. I didn't get the "certified notice" of this project and others didn't either. I was told the address was taken directly from tax records...I get my tax bill. I know what my mailing address is. A street # of 2941 is not going to get to me at 3941 in a City like San Francisco. I asked if the notice had been returned as undeliverable...No answer!

We have uncovered previous approved plans for as many as 20+ homes there. Thus changing the nature of the end of Meredith Neck forever. I refer you to Helen Gordon Stags Head Sub-Development, 1980. By using the original 1926 location for Harris Rd., they'll relocate Harris and build several homes all the way to Happy Homes Rd. The current submitted plans only shows three additional homes.

You can find deeds at WWW.nhdeeds.org

As for prior deals made on other land? I would NOT count on the Meredith Planners to honor anything historical when more tax revenue is involved.

[lakeadoodle]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

The Town Planners were not very accepting of public comments and were very vague on what the plans are there.

There were over 30 virtual attendees and we sat on the phone for 4 hrs. until this issue was addressed. A move I believe was to weed out those too tired to remain on the phone until 11 pm. It was only 8 pm my time and I was exhausted.

They had my mailing address wrong. I didn't get the "certified notice" of this project and others didn't either. I was told the address was taken directly from tax records...I get my tax bill. I know what my mailing address is. A street # of 2941 is not going to get to me at 3941 in a City like San Francisco. I asked if the notice had been returned as undeliverable...No answer!

We have uncovered previous approved plans for as many as 20+ homes there. Thus changing the nature of the end of Meredith Neck forever. I refer you to Helen Gordon Stags Head Sub-Development, 1980. By using the original 1926 location for Harris Rd., they'll relocate Harris and build several homes all the way to Happy Homes Rd. The current submitted plans only shows three additional homes.

You can find deeds at WWW.nhdeeds.org

As for prior deals made on other land? I would NOT count on the Meredith Planners to honor anything historical when more tax revenue is involved.

Agree on the aversion to public comments. Some of planning board members and the Selectman present were quite unprofessional, rude and one had to apologize for losing his temper! I hope the meeting on 3/23/2021 is managed more professionally.

[wharf rat 72]

This call is something else. I finally got booted off the MediaTraq Webcast which looks/connects like AOL in the 90's.

Can anyone provide an update on how this ended?

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by wharf rat 72

This call is something else. I finally got booted off the MediaTraq Webcast which looks/connects like AOL in the 90's.

Can anyone provide an update on how this ended?

Hasn't ended yet...Whew!!!!!!!

[wharf rat 72]

Was the end result approval for the 3 lots (2 lakefront and 1 non lakefront with 20 acres) based on contingencies? The major one being no future sub division on the 20 acre lot?

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by wharf rat 72

Was the end result approval for the 3 lots (2 lakefront and 1 non lakefront with 20 acres) based on contingencies? The major one being no future sub division on the 20 acre lot?

Yes...And no sub-divisions on any lot. That was a neighborhood win...However, what has been acres of forest view outside my living room window for over 61 years, will now become the wall of some mega-mansion 20' away. A game-changer I'm not sure I can live with.

[wharf rat 72]

I know your house. I've walked by it hundreds of times over the past 40+ years and through the woods onto happy home. In recent years its been a perfect spot for the mutt to get a drink of water down by the boathouse. I feel your pain, but hope your able to live with it. Sure is nice lot in a beautiful cove. I thought if the development went through those houses would wind up right across from your driveway looking down on the lakefront houses. That is a decent win.

Anyways, Good work on the call, you were by far the most coherent of the crew.

Where do you live in the city?

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by wharf rat 72

I know your house. I've walked by it hundreds of times over the past 40+ years and through the woods onto happy home. In recent years its been a perfect spot for the mutt to get a drink of water down by the boathouse. I feel your pain, but hope your able to live with it. Sure is nice lot in a beautiful cove. I thought if the development went through those houses would wind up right across from your driveway looking down on the lakefront houses. That is a decent win.

Anyways, Good work on the call, you were by far the most coherent of the crew.

Where do you live in the city?

Thank you...

Noe Valley in San Francisco.

Although still fantastic, the Lake is not what it used to be...Guess nothing is.

Thanks again.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Yes...And no sub-divisions on any lot. That was a neighborhood win...However, what has been acres of forest view outside my living room window for over 61 years, will now become the wall of some mega-mansion 20' away. A game-changer I'm not sure I can live with.

Temporary win, you can bet a lot that size will be subdivided in the future. What is said now means nothing once a few years goes by and the board is full of new people and new ideas.

[fatlazyless]

So, going with three large lots, two-waterfront and one not waterfront, on the 53.5-acre forest area as opposed to 17-homes on the 53.5-acres probably means the small roads of Cushing Rd and Harris Rd will not get extended and attached and a loop road will NOT be happening.

So, that's an excellent "not-happening" for the Meredith Neck, Cattle Landing residents because having a loop would definitely mean a big increase in local traffic with non-resident tourists just out for a scenic drive.

It also means the "old New Hampshire" s-curve in the road, at the location where Meredith Neck Rd becomes Cattle Landing Rd will not get a major re-design, and it will remain unchanged. I would definitely be missing that old s-curve dipsy-doo if it got changed to improve the traffic flow, there. If you ever drive down there, then you know about this spot where the state road and the town road have a very funky, come together.

All things considered these are some good results and the Meredith select board did their home work, very good, with this reduced, low impact, development decision.

And hey ..... maybe I get a job with these new mega-million homes ........ doing the snow with my snowblower ...... with "meticulous attention" to snow removal and not damaging their very well kept green grass lawn. .....

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Yes...And no sub-divisions on any lot. That was a neighborhood win...However, what has been acres of forest view outside my living room window for over 61 years, will now become the wall of some mega-mansion 20' away. A game-changer I'm not sure I can live with.

In any event, it should substantially boost the value of your property!

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by frank m.

I am almost an abutter to Menotomy and I got worried when they shut down their normal operations a while back. I spoke to the Director ....... She assured me that their is no incentive for them to do anything except keep everything exactly as is until/unless girl scouting has a resurgence and the previous normal operations could be resumed.

Well ...... gee-whiz ..... maybe the Girl Scouts could tinker with the direction of their dear dear Camp Monotomy just a wee bit by changing the name to Camp Monudemy and running it as a nudist camp for adults. Monudemy's new camp style could continue to fulfill the wishes of the original grant by bonding its campers with their beautiful Monudemy, 90-acres, 2000' wf, Lake Winnipesaukee location. .....

You know its been about twenty-two years, since 1999, since Monotomy been a real summer camp with a full eight week Girl Scout camper season?

Ok ..... while a nudist camp can happen in Florida or Cape Cod, it seems very unlikely here on Meredith Neck. But you got to admit ...... that name ..... M-O-N-U-D-E-M-Y ...... is a good name for a nudist camp ....... ha-ha-ha ..... ho-ho-ho ..... argh-argh-argh! ......

...................

So, here's an old NY Times article from 2007 that talks about scout camps in NY state which have been preserved as public land.

Open Space: 'Yet Again, Camping's Loss Is Land Preservation's Gain' ...... NY Times ...... June 3,2007 ..... by John Rather

Maybe someone with better 'puter skills than I can make a working link, here?

This article takes a brief look at Girl Scout and Boy Scout camps unable to continue as a camp which become public land preservation property.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by frank m.

I am almost an abutter to Menotomy and I got worried when they shut down their normal operations a while back. I spoke to the Director down in MA and my fears were calmed. She told me that the land had been granted to them for "Girl Scouting" and that any other use would result in the property going back to the heirs of the grantor. And they could not sell it... could only go back to their heirs. And as a non-profit, they pay no taxes. The little bit they pay for power, upkeep, and insurance was offset by the rent they get from a few weekend events by individual girl scout troops. She assured me that their is no incentive for them to do anything except keep everything exactly as is until/unless girl scouting has a resurgence and the previous normal operations could be resumed.

Restrictions and grants are all 'hogwash' in NH. I remember Cotton Hill Rd in Gilford. The original horse farm at the top has a deed restriction to sub-developing the land but was broken in court. Camp Samoset property was restricted to the 'recreation for Jewish boys' but that also was nulled in court.

I'm sure anyone can find a lot of grants and restrictions nulled. One way of preventing this is to deed the land over to a conservation trust such as LRCT or Belknap Conservatory. But I do expect some brainstorming developer/lawyer with deep pockets to find a way to billions!

My family farm was set up as a trust to Belknap Conservatory. You should have listened to some of the threats from developers on the phone!

The movie 'Yellowstone' is a bit farfetched but can be today's reality!