The Dive

[thinkxingu]

It appears from the thread addressed above that The Dive will continue its sandbar and private event operations. I'd hoped they'd find a permanent docking solution as I don't think it's appropriate to monopolize a public space for commercial use, especially so when it fundamentally changes the nature of the space.

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[LikeLakes]

No idea if Betsy reads this thread or not, but if so, sorry to hear about that experience you had at the dock. There's no reason for it, glad you contacted the police and hopefully you won't be personally attacked like that again.

To me, this is about laws, permits, zoning, and Town government. It's not about good people and bad people. I don't know what The Dive has or has not done in terms of compliance, and I don't know what the towns do or don't want it to be doing. Let The Dive continue to apply for permits, let the towns issue or not issue them, or issue them with limitations, and then enforce compliance. If they can find a working relationship and adhere to the rules that's that. If they can't find anyplace to permit their operations or docking, then the business is done.

I don't know these people, but nobody should be harassed for trying to run their business. If they are out of compliance, contact the proper authorities and take care of it that way.

[Garcia]

The Dive and the seaplane threads are pretty similar. There is a core group of people strongly opposed to each. Both owners insist they are following the proper channels and are just trying to make a business work while opponents feel they are cutting corners, looking for special treatment, destined to fail, or whatever.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Garcia

The Dive and the seaplane threads are pretty similar. There is a core group of people strongly opposed to each. Both owners insist they are following the proper channels and are just trying to make a business work while opponents feel they are cutting corners, looking for special treatment, destined to fail, or whatever.

You make a good point. I don't know the individual people involved, but the two businesses have similar issues, need docking and can't find it, need a permitted space to do business and that has challenges.

I think one of the things that makes these such tough issues is there's a ton of business commerce on Winni that has been in place for years, and likely could never get permitted to do business if they were starting up now.

[Mr. V]

Interesting story about Betsy and the mob; did it make the newspaper?

If not, why not?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Garcia

The Dive and the seaplane threads are pretty similar. There is a core group of people strongly opposed to each. Both owners insist they are following the proper channels and are just trying to make a business work while opponents feel they are cutting corners, looking for special treatment, destined to fail, or whatever.

One important difference, to ESA's credit--he's addressing these issues at the appropriate time--before he's dumped a ton of money and effort into the business. The Dive has been 3(?) years of addressing issues that should have been addressed before they built the vessel...and then complaining about how difficult business/neighbors can be. Surprise

[fatlazyless]

All things considered, The Dive's 2020-pandemic year spot at the Weirs Beach public town docks had the potential to be a long term, golden location for The Dive. Maybe it can renegotiate and get back in the good graces with the Laconia select board and return to the same Weirs dock spot.

It seemed like it would be a good success and a good business for the Weirs in that spot. After all it had the support last year from all five members of the Laconia select board which is a high level of local support. Some select board members were happy Dive patrons, as well.

That Weirs Beach location has NO nearby residential homes or neighbors to irritate or annoy. It was located down the boardwalk embankment and across the road from the unoccupied, unheated, seasonal 150-year old historic buildings that belong to the N.H. Veterans Association where there is almost always NOBODY home.

With its large square, bright white floating restaurant and bar, floating on a 24' x 62' steel barge, it looked totally fabulous in that spot. It looked like it really belonged there and would be a good business partner for the Weirs. Is a real shame that this year, 2021, is not its year #2 in that location and they could be building on its first year success by installing a DiveCam so people at home could see what's happening at The Dive.

But, unfortunately things did not work out in 2020 and it may as well blame this on the slowdown in the restaurant-bar business caused by the pandemic.

So ........ The Dive is apparently looking for a new home ........ where will it go ...... and, will it ever return to its happy spot at the Weirs dock? .....

...................

Will it ever return ..... will it ever return ...... to its one golden spot down that Weirs Beach dock ...... or will it ride forever out on the Big Lake waters with no place to call a home ...... moving slowly, back and forth, between that West Alton sandbar and that Braun Bay sandbar with no particular place to go...... WHERE WILL IT GO?

Braun Bay video ....... www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jjxbNR9i60 ...... has a few, very brief looks at The Dive surrounded by umpteen boats and people partying presumably in Braun Bay on July 4, 2019 ..... looks like some summer big water, party time!

[XCR-700]

Hummm,,, calling the Weirs location for the Dive a "happy spot" is like describing having a painful tooth pulled without any painkiller/Novocain. Maybe a necessary activity but not ideal.

It was possibly one of the least annoying spots for it to be parked, but aesthetically it added nothing to the view, well unless you prefer a dumpy look.

It was much like seeing a barge docked at the Weirs with a crane and construction materials. When we see a barge docked at the Weirs it is accepted as an accommodation and better then seeing said barge in front of someones home or a sandbar, but it does not improve the view of the Weirs. The Dive is similar. If the Weirs dock is open to commercial traffic (and I dont know anything about the rules of docking commercial traffic on public docks, so this is an assumption) then I accept that the Dive has the same rights as a barge or water taxi or any other commercial traffic. But as a semi permanent fixture on the Weirs dock it was an eyesore, not a happy addition.

Sorry it is just not a pleasant sight and not a plus.

Maybe if it were less hideous looking, that may change many opinions.

And please do not confuse my comments as being about the people who run the Dive or the food they serve or anything else, these comments are strictly regarding appearance of the Dive as seen from various locations on the lake.

I also do not know anything about their "business" arrangements with Laconia for using said space. If the Weirs dock is not open to commercial traffic and they must follow different rules than the public, that is all outside of my comments.

I simply do not agree that the Weirs location was a "happy spot" for a permanent Dive docking. However, it was possibly an acceptable spot for temporary docking for loading and unloading passengers.

[winni83]

Apart from the nasty comments on the Dive FB page, both from the Dive and from others, the future of the Dive seems to be dependent on their ability to find a docking location from which to pump out their holding tanks, refill their propane tanks, dispose of garbage and take on supplies and water. This assumes that the contemplated operation of the Dive in 2021 will be limited to visits to sandbars, etc. If they also need a docking location to load and offload passengers, then that is another complication. And if they also want to have a fixed docking location from which to operate their business in place, then yet another complication. And of course whether operation from sandbars will provide enough income is open to question as is the reaction by those who live near the sandbars.

The Dive seems to have assumed that because they may have the necessary permits to operate their business on the Lake while underway or anchored, then it should be no problem as far as docking is concerned because “the State owns the Lake”. Over the past 3 years they have found that assumption to be false. I agree with others who have pointed out that their business plan, if they had one, was based in large part on this false assumption.

While I am sure that local people and politics were involved to some extent with their issues at WAM, East Coast Flightcraft and at the Weirs dock, the assertion by the Dive that they performed all of their obligations fully and without fault strains credulity.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry it is just not a pleasant sight and not a plus.

Maybe if it were less hideous looking, that may change many opinions.

As you know, it's painted bright white, so maybe repainting it with a lake water camouflage paint job consisting of ....... swirls of flat dark blue and swirls of flat dark gray ....... would make it much less visible and make it blend into the waterfront surroundings ..... something similar to the paint job on a Navy landing barge intended to be camouflaged.

Anchors away ....... and down the hatch ....... I'll drink to that one! ... !!!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

As you know, it's painted bright white, so maybe repainting it with a lake water camouflage paint job consisting of ....... swirls of flat dark blue and swirls of flat dark gray ....... would make it much less visible and make it blend into the waterfront surroundings ..... something similar to the paint job on a Navy landing barge intended to be camouflaged.

Anchors away ....... and down the hatch ....... I'll drink to that one! ... !!!

Well if nothing else it might make it more interesting ;-)

Or how about this, paint it so that it looks like a fancy boat or even a floating cottage rather than a "dive" but then maybe that the appeal to some (looking like a dive on the outside but being a nice place on the inside) and so that might not fit the business model (whatever that might be)

And in truth I dont begrudge them any desire to look like a dive, I simply say it is not attractive to many and possibly the cause of much of the anger about this venue.

By comparison I see the Tiki Huts all the time floating around the lake or docked on the back side of the Weirs pier and they always make me smile. I really enjoy seeing them and personally think they add an element of fun to the visual appearance of the lake. But thats my opinion, many others may disagree.

ATB

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

As you know, it's painted bright white, so maybe repainting it with a lake water camouflage paint job consisting of ....... swirls of flat dark blue and swirls of flat dark gray ....... would make it much less visible and make it blend into the waterfront surroundings ..... something similar to the paint job on a Navy landing barge intended to be camouflaged.

Anchors away ....... and down the hatch ....... I'll drink to that one! ... !!!

It had a winter makeover. The siding is now beige.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

As you know, it's painted bright white, so maybe repainting it with a lake water camouflage paint job consisting of ....... swirls of flat dark blue and swirls of flat dark gray ....... would make it much less visible and make it blend into the waterfront surroundings ..... something similar to the paint job on a Navy landing barge intended to be camouflaged. Anchors away ....... and down the hatch ....... I'll drink to that one! ... !!!

...and it doesn't have to be painted "lake camouflage" on all sides...

[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

I have to ask the question how many members of this forum would be happy to have The Dive parked in front of their lake house?

[Biggd]

It's the old, "I love it as long as it's not in my neighborhood".

Originally Posted by wentworthwhitbreadIII

I have to ask the question how many members of this forum would be happy to have The Dive parked in front of their lake house?

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[Descant]

Originally Posted by wentworthwhitbreadIII

I have to ask the question how many members of this forum would be happy to have The Dive parked in front of their lake house?

It's not the Dive per se. Obviously, many people don't want anybody parked in front of their house. That's why we have NRZ's and signs along streets that say no parking in residential areas near some sort of attraction e.g. mall, park, concert venue, etc.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

It's not the Dive per se. Obviously, many people don't want anybody parked in front of their house. That's why we have NRZ's and signs along streets that say no parking in residential areas near some sort of attraction e.g. mall, park, concert venue, etc.

I think the point is that the Dive (and some rafting situations) is not just anybody. A two story barge for an indefinite time period or dozens of boats rafting every weekend is very different than an anchored bowrider or fisherman for an afternoon.

So much of the conflict on the lake is people taking their behavior up to 11

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I think the point is that the Dive (and some rafting situations) is not just anybody. A two story barge for an indefinite time period or dozens of boats rafting every weekend is very different than an anchored bowrider or fisherman for an afternoon.

So much of the conflict on the lake is people taking their behavior up to 11

Very well said!

And as someone who does not own Winnipesaukee waterfront property, I totally see that the situation you describe has in fact become THE problem over the last 20 years.

In the 1960's and 70's people did things that may in have been more annoying than some things today, but it was in much smaller doses so it was not a problem. Loud boats with open/above the water line exhaust were not uncommon, but the numbers of these boats was not enough to be a problem and people didn't operate them at 6:00 AM or 10:00 PM OR all day long in front of someone else's home. Same for people pulling 2 water skiers and racing down Alton Bay, but it was not all day every weekend day and 50 of them. AND no wake boats curling giant waves/wake! Your biggest ski boat back did not wash the kids off the dock, where as with todays wake boats thats situation is very possible.

All things in moderation. Or so it should be,,,

[dippasan]

If you haven't seen it lately..........

[XCR-700]

OMG, not sure but that color might actually be worse,,,

But then I'm not a fan of yellow houses,,,

There must be a way to improve its appearance, this just looks like a, well a dive,,,

Contrast it with the Tiki boats that are too funny and always leave me with a smile.

Maybe they need a Gilligans Island theme, make it look like a hut on a floating island. Or maybe disguise at something completely different, something people wouldn't expect and would might attract interest.

I give them credit for trying, but for me this is not an improvement. I feel bad even saying that,,,

[dippasan]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

OMG, not sure but that color might actually be worse,,,

But then I'm not a fan of yellow houses,,,

There must be a way to improve its appearance, this just looks like a, well a dive,,,

Contrast it with the Tiki boats that are too funny and always leave me with a smile.

Maybe they need a Gilligans Island theme, make it look like a hut on a floating island. Or maybe disguise at something completely different, something people wouldn't expect and would might attract interest.

I give them credit for trying, but for me this is not an improvement. I feel bad even saying that,,,

Agreed
It still looks like a 3 family Manchester apartment building to me but that said.... I do hope they can find a place to call home where they can settle in, be accepted by their neighbors and generate some income.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by dippasan

Agreed
It still looks like a 3 family Manchester apartment building to me but that said.... I do hope they can find a place to call home where they can settle in, be accepted by their neighbors and generate some income.

Now thats funny!

Again I have nothing against them in theory, I simply say its an eye sore and when its parked at the West Alton sandbar or at the Weirs public dock, its using up space we all hope to use for our boats.

If they were simply docking at Weirs to load/unload and they took their customers on a tour of the lake I have no complaint at all. I'll even try to overlook the appearance ;-)

In truth if it was not already a thread, I couldn't be bothered to start one about it, I'm just not interested enough.

I hope it all works out and they can find a good place to park and a better paint scheme ;-)

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I think the point is that the Dive (and some rafting situations) is not just anybody. A two story barge for an indefinite time period or dozens of boats rafting every weekend is very different than an anchored bowrider or fisherman for an afternoon.

So much of the conflict on the lake is people taking their behavior up to 11

Actually the biggest point in the story of the Dive, is that you really need to fully vet your idea, before sinking Hundred of thousands of dollars into a venture. The dive since the beginning has believed that the only permitting they needed to worry about was from the State, because they would be sitting on top of the State owned property. And from a health and safety code stand point that is entirely correct.

What they failed to recognized, and continue to step into every time they turn around is the fact, that as soon, as the tie to a dock, which is connected to land controlled by the town, they also face additional jurisdiction and regulations. Every time I have seen the Dive have issues, it is with the towns, to my knowledge they have not had any issue with the state. The towns can control their town docks anyway they want. The towns can regulate business that operate with in their boundaries anyway they want. And once a Boat is tied to a dock, which is tied to the land that belongs to the town, the town gains jurisdiction over the business activities.

In the past there have been other water bound business on less of a scale, boats selling ice cream, boats selling burgers and dogs... No issues why? because they never operated while dock side, they never needed access to have holding tanks pumped....or be gassed up, beyond what could easily be done just like any other boat....

At the end of the day, the DIVE is struggling because of the scale of the endeavor, and because of the ignorance of the owners... I had honestly wanted to see them succeed..... But they keep falling into the same situation summer after summer..... If they have actually come out of the Red I would truly be surprised.... Do I think they could succeed, Yes but they need to find a land based partner that has water access, in a commercial setting, that will allow them to function, both tied up, and underway. And then before jumping into action and operations with that partner, clear the plan with the town... The problem is that partnership is going to require the dive to buy into that business, or that business to buy into the Dive....

Alright enough already, FLL you must have some more witty comments you can make...

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Do I think they could succeed, Yes but they need to find a land based partner that has water access, in a commercial setting, that will allow them to function, both tied up, and underway. And then before jumping into action and operations with that partner, clear the plan with the town... The problem is that partnership is going to require the dive to buy into that business, or that business to buy into the Dive....

And it seems to me like the most likely viable partnering option for the "move around the lake" model might have been the Mount Washington. Share dock space somehow. No idea if it could have worked or not, just a thought.

[LikeLakes]

I'd like to announce my plan for next year. Based on learning from The Dive's mistakes, I'm building a blimp based restaurant/bar. It will float 20 ft. off the water, making it immune to state boating and safety regs, we'll fly it to some farmer's rented field at off hours eliminating docking problems. We're going to work out a contract with ESA to fly patrons to it where they will climb up a rope ladder to the dining room and bar. Future upgrades will be an escalator that lowers to water level. For those at Braun Bay that need some shade they can anchor under the shadow of the blimp.

And after careful thought and enlisting the best design teams in the area, I've decided to paint it yellow.

[Jersey Bob]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I'd like to announce my plan for next year. Based on learning from The Dive's mistakes, I'm building a blimp based restaurant/bar. It will float 20 ft. off the water, making it immune to state boating and safety regs, we'll fly it to some farmer's rented field at off hours eliminating docking problems. We're going to work out a contract with ESA to fly patrons to it where they will climb up a rope ladder to the dining room and bar. Future upgrades will be an escalator that lowers to water level. For those at Braun Bay that need some shade they can anchor under the shadow of the blimp.

And after careful thought and enlisting the best design teams in the area, I've decided to paint it yellow.

Brilliant!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I'd like to announce my plan for next year. Based on learning from The Dive's mistakes, I'm building a blimp based restaurant/bar. It will float 20 ft. off the water, making it immune to state boating and safety regs, we'll fly it to some farmer's rented field at off hours eliminating docking problems. We're going to work out a contract with ESA to fly patrons to it where they will climb up a rope ladder to the dining room and bar. Future upgrades will be an escalator that lowers to water level. For those at Braun Bay that need some shade they can anchor under the shadow of the blimp.

And after careful thought and enlisting the best design teams in the area, I've decided to paint it yellow.

You should plan to add an option for skydiving from your blimp. From what I hear, it is super easy to setup a local skydiving operation and the FAA will help you out with whatever you need.

[garysanfran]

"For those at Braun Bay that need some shade they can anchor under the shadow of the blimp".

And enjoy the yellow rain?

[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

Anyone know where the Dive is pumping their holding tanks?

[FlyingScot]

LI and LL--agreed. One thing I'd add you that you both reference--another difference is that certain businesses, such as the ice cream boat and The Mount, may get more sympathy because of their aesthetic appeal. Whether that's fair may be debatable, but it is human nature

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

LI and LL--agreed. One thing I'd add you that you both reference--another difference is that certain businesses, such as the ice cream boat and The Mount, may get more sympathy because of their aesthetic appeal. Whether that's fair may be debatable, but it is human nature

Honestly, I think there is no question your point has much to do with it. Not much appeal to a rectangular barge that has difficulty moving.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

And it seems to me like the most likely viable partnering option for the "move around the lake" model might have been the Mount Washington. Share dock space somehow. No idea if it could have worked or not, just a thought.

So if you look at the new boat that the Cruse NH just bought and out fitted, it seems to be their answer to "The Dive".. I had a chance to look at it the other day tied up at the Wiers.. it is outfitted to be just what the dive is, a floating Bar..... So I don't think the Dive and Cruise NH getting into any type of agreement is likely....

That is just my personal opinion of course........ However that kind of partner ship, is exactly what the Dive needs...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Actually the biggest point in the story of the Dive, is that you really need to fully vet your idea, before sinking Hundred of thousands of dollars into a venture. The dive since the beginning has believed that the only permitting they needed to worry about was from the State, because they would be sitting on top of the State owned property. And from a health and safety code stand point that is entirely correct.

What they failed to recognized, and continue to step into every time they turn around is the fact, that as soon, as the tie to a dock, which is connected to land controlled by the town, they also face additional jurisdiction and regulations. Every time I have seen the Dive have issues, it is with the towns, to my knowledge they have not had any issue with the state. The towns can control their town docks anyway they want. The towns can regulate business that operate with in their boundaries anyway they want. And once a Boat is tied to a dock, which is tied to the land that belongs to the town, the town gains jurisdiction over the business activities.

In the past there have been other water bound business on less of a scale, boats selling ice cream, boats selling burgers and dogs... No issues why? because they never operated while dock side, they never needed access to have holding tanks pumped....or be gassed up, beyond what could easily be done just like any other boat....

At the end of the day, the DIVE is struggling because of the scale of the endeavor, and because of the ignorance of the owners... I had honestly wanted to see them succeed..... But they keep falling into the same situation summer after summer..... If they have actually come out of the Red I would truly be surprised.... Do I think they could succeed, Yes but they need to find a land based partner that has water access, in a commercial setting, that will allow them to function, both tied up, and underway. And then before jumping into action and operations with that partner, clear the plan with the town... The problem is that partnership is going to require the dive to buy into that business, or that business to buy into the Dive....

Alright enough already, FLL you must have some more witty comments you can make...

Why did they pull out of the deal at the Weirs public docks? They fought hard for it and got what they wanted. I haven't followed this closely, but was surprised to hear that they walked. Probably more to the story than I have heard.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Why did they pull out of the deal at the Weirs public docks? They fought hard for it and got what they wanted. I haven't followed this closely, but was surprised to hear that they walked. Probably more to the story than I have heard.

What I know, which isn't a lot, was that when they realized what the upgrades to the public dock where going to cost Them ("The Dive").... THey realized the ROI, wasn't going to be there....

To my understanding the town was agreeable to them using the public dock, but the DIVE was going to have to finance the agreed upon improvments needed.....Like everything else in the DIVE past, they didn't seem to have clue as to what those improvements where going to cost them, and when they found out argued with the town over who should be responsible for paying for what.....

[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

Is that The Dive that's pushed up against the East side of Paugus Ba off Weirs Blvd that everyone is talking about? It doesn't look to be docked, but more like it's shipwrecked.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by wentworthwhitbreadIII

Is that The Dive that's pushed up against the East side of Paugus Ba off Weirs Blvd that everyone is talking about? It doesn't look to be docked, but more like it's shipwrecked.

It’s been docked there for a while and recently repainted


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[Mr. V]

I guess I don't understand why the owners of the dive are having all this trouble.

Didn't they "do their homework" and get up to speed on all the laws and regulations?

Are they undercapitalized?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by wentworthwhitbreadIII

I have to ask the question how many members of this forum would be happy to have The Dive parked in front of their lake house?

I wouldn't mind, so long as they met the price I'd quote them.

[tis]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

One important difference, to ESA's credit--he's addressing these issues at the appropriate time--before he's dumped a ton of money and effort into the business. The Dive has been 3(?) years of addressing issues that should have been addressed before they built the vessel...and then complaining about how difficult business/neighbors can be. Surprise

I agree with you-I am very surprised that this wasn't thought of before they built the Dive. I would think most business plans would include such an important issue. I do think the Weirs is a great spot for it, not in front of somebody's house, but where all the commercial and noise takes place anyway. Maybe they can work it out.