Non-OEM battery for lawnmower/

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

$5 is the absolute highest fuel has cost in the last twenty years—the average is, what, $3? Significant difference, though it's certainly not clear what the five-year average will be at this point.

Also, I'd be interested to know what it costs to charge those batteries. A friend of mine was looking at the Wrangler 4xe because he could drive to work and back on battery power, but people are saying it's costing ~$3.50 to charge the battery for ~25 miles whereas a gallon of gas at $5 would get just a tad fewer. So, at ~$1.50 for 25 miles, how long would it take to make up the $10k price difference? Something like 30 years!

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I've done the math many times (although not in the last few months) on EV charging vs gasoline. On an apples to apples basis, EV charging is well under half, often only a third, of the price of gas on a per mile basis. Plus no oil changes and dramatically less other maintenance.

Sailin--I'd say if you're close on the battery vs gas expense, then overall the electric mower is cheaper (and also better for the other reasons you've cited). My son has had very good luck with DeWalt battery systems on smaller motors, but he does not have a mower and I think that may be higher priced. Good luck!

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've done the math many times (although not in the last few months) on EV charging vs gasoline. On an apples to apples basis, EV charging is well under half, often only a third, of the price of gas on a per mile basis. Plus no oil changes and dramatically less other maintenance.

Sailin--I'd say if you're close on the battery vs gas expense, then overall the electric mower is cheaper (and also better for the other reasons you've cited). My son has had very good luck with DeWalt battery systems on smaller motors, but he does not have a mower and I think that may be higher priced. Good luck!

Very helpful information, thank you very much, Flying Scot. I got up at the crack o' dawn today and got the EGO LM2101 for $399. Online it shows out of stock but as of 8 a.m. there was one more left.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130696

Also, the self-propelled version is on sale at Lowes, though not in stock in Tilton:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130698

You have to check the blade type carefully as there are many complaints that certain blades and also the double-bladed mower have poor suction. That means the clippings don't make it into the bag, but also the cut is uneven because the blade doesn't lift up the grass.

Final reason for getting decent yard tools: if you're doing the work yourself rather than hiring someone, you can put the savings into your equipment.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Very helpful information, thank you very much, Flying Scot. I got up at the crack o' dawn today and got the EGO LM2101 for $399. Online it shows out of stock but as of 8 a.m. there was one more left.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130696

Also, the self-propelled version is on sale at Lowes, though not in stock in Tilton:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-POWER-5...ger/1003130698

You have to check the blade type carefully as there are many complaints that certain blades and also the double-bladed mower have poor suction. That means the clippings don't make it into the bag, but also the cut is uneven because the blade doesn't lift up the grass.

Final reason for getting decent yard tools: if you're doing the work yourself rather than hiring someone, you can put the savings into your equipment.

Very excited to hear your review!

[John Mercier]

DeWalt generally gets a price advantage due to an advanced battery platform; and being American made.
They just had an upgrade to their chainsaws...
and I am expecting they will announce a two-stage snowblower to compete with the Ryobi.

We have their local representative on-site Wednesday for our Customer BBQ Event, but I don't know what specials he will have on tools.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

DeWalt generally gets a price advantage due to an advanced battery platform; and being American made.

"DeWalt is a global manufacturer of power tools, hand tools, and accessories. They manufacture their tools in the following countries: United States, Mexico, Brazil, China, Italy, United Kingdom, and the Czech Republic."

The DeWalt website states that select products are made in USA with global materials. LINK
What ever that means.

DeWalt is a Black & Decker company.

[John Mercier]

I sell them, so I know they are Black & Decker.
The battery tools sold by us are US made... they carry the label.
Parts of the tools are manufactured around the world... which isn't unusual for modern American manufacturing.

The hand tools, and certain battery accessories are made in China or Mexico depending on what they are.
And generally labelled as such.

The European versions are not sold in the US, as per they must be labelled as 18v and not the 20v we have here do to specifications of design.

It is like watching a customer pick up a box of stainless steel nails. The label states China - because the label is made in China; the box states Mexico - because the box is made in Mexico; and the actual nails are made in Canada.

As long as something has the required percentage of made in the US, they can be labelled as such... else we tend to see ''Assembled in the US''.

Contractors tend to investigate where a tool is made... and like that the platform being used is more flexible for their usage. They talk with the representatives about new improvements coming down the line, and why those changes are being made.

EGO doesn't work for the pros because it doesn't have a basic drill/driver, circular saw, or sawzall... in fact, it doesn't have any of those tools.

For my Ryobi, I have to use two different battery systems because the 18v is not interchangeable with the 40v.
For the Milwaukee, the mower is like $1000...
For the Makita, they use a multiple 18v package... which many have noticed, but now the announcement of the new 40v is beginning to create questions.

So the DeWalt FLEX currently has the advantage.
The platform is more flexible and you don't have to call an overseas answering center to get permission to have the dealer ship them to the service center.

I don't hate my Ryobi... but I chose that platform a very long time ago when the batteries were NiCad. First to market with a two stage snowthrower is just a bonus for us. But in all honesty, something like the FLEX instead of the 18v/40v dual platform would be my choice if making that decision today - provided that DeWalt announces a new snowthrower.

[SAB1]

For my Ryobi, I have to use two different battery systems because the 18v is not interchangeable with the 40v.
For the Milwaukee, the mower is like $1000...
For the Makita, they use a multiple 18v package... which many have noticed, but now the announcement of the new 40v is beginning to create questions.


This coupled with the rediiculous cost of of replacing batteries is why every time I pull the cord on my gas lawn mower and it starts I smile. Never lets me down. Never worry about a battery crapping out half way thru the job never have to charge it when the job is done. Just fill it with gas and boom she runs and runs hard. Yup. Grumpy old man but if ain’t broke I ain’t fixin it.

[John Mercier]

You should never get rid of something that works...
But with the clover, I really have very little real use for a mower... so once the cheap gasoline one went to the point of non-repair... the Ryobi was the next logical option.
I already had the battery/charger for the 40v because of the powerhear attachment system... so made sense to just keep going.

I was under the impression that is why the Makita went with the LTX for so long; and then the rumors of the GTX came out.

They seemed to be following the original Ryobi 18v One+ concept.
I think they may be looking to the GTX for a two stage snowblower.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SAB1

This coupled with the rediiculous cost of of replacing batteries is why every time I pull the cord on my gas lawn mower and it starts I smile. Never lets me down. Never worry about a battery crapping out half way thru the job never have to charge it when the job is done. Just fill it with gas and boom she runs and runs hard. Yup. Grumpy old man but if ain’t broke I ain’t fixin it.

Yup. My Echo and Ryobi blowers, Craftsman tractor, Stihl chainsaw, Craftsman snowblower, and Troy-Bilt splitter are/were all from 10-15 years-old and all without a hiccup. The only ICE machine I've ever had that didn't last as long as I'd hoped was a Weed Eater that I got five years out of before it got tricky to start. I accepted that when I bought it for $65 at Walmart, though, so it was easy to toss (and still wayyyy cheaper than an electric).

That being said, I do like my Greenworks 60V whacker and if they weren't more expensive might consider more.

Example: the Greenworks blower is $220 while the Echo blower AND vac is $230. With a 5-year-warranty on the echo, and being as efficient as it is, it's a no-brainer.

For me, electric garden tools just aren't there yet.

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[SAB1]

I agree with you they just aren’t there yet especially for the average homeowner. I do recognize that for guys in the trades they are appealing as they have convenience factor and save some time.

[SailinAway]

https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2.../dp/B08GPZ1XLJ

Honestly I was stunned when I started it up and began mowing. It's much quieter than a vacuum cleaner. You could listen to the radio while mowing. Pushes very easily with a weight of 55 lbs plus battery weight (5 lbs?). The blade seems super sharp. The quality of the cut seems fine. Recharged in 30 minutes. Not sure how long the battery runs because it arrived with a partial charge as expected so I only got to mow for 15 minutes. I'll test that today. It was so much fun mowing that I switched on the headlights and continued mowing after dark. The headlights are quite bright.

So far I'm glad I didn't get the self-propelled version. At 25 lbs less than a gas mower, pushing it uphill seemed OK. Mowing along the side of a hill wasn't difficult due to the light weight.

I'm impressed with the simplicity of this mower. You literally just drop the battery in and go. Height adjustment is very easy. I'll update my impressions when I've had more experience. So far I'm very happy. Anything that improves one's attitude toward otherwise grueling yard work is a good thing. Glad my gas mower died!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

https://www.amazon.com/EGO-Power-LM2.../dp/B08GPZ1XLJ

Honestly I was stunned when I started it up and began mowing. It's much quieter than a vacuum cleaner. You could listen to the radio while mowing. Pushes very easily with a weight of 55 lbs plus battery weight (5 lbs?). The blade seems super sharp. The quality of the cut seems fine. Recharged in 30 minutes. Not sure how long the battery runs because it arrived with a partial charge as expected so I only got to mow for 15 minutes. I'll test that today. It was so much fun mowing that I switched on the headlights and continued mowing after dark. The headlights are quite bright.

So far I'm glad I didn't get the self-propelled version. At 25 lbs less than a gas mower, pushing it uphill seemed OK. Mowing along the side of a hill wasn't difficult due to the light weight.

I'm impressed with the simplicity of this mower. You literally just drop the battery in and go. Height adjustment is very easy. I'll update my impressions when I've had more experience. So far I'm very happy. Anything that improves one's attitude toward otherwise grueling yard work is a good thing. Glad my gas mower died!

Thanks, Sailin. The quiet and ease are the "details" that seem to fall through the cracks when we just compare prices and nothing else. Electric motors have a much more luxe feeling than even the best internal combustion engines. I would guess that there's also less vibration traveling up through the handle?

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Thanks, Sailin. The quiet and ease are the "details" that seem to fall through the cracks when we just compare prices and nothing else. Electric motors have a much more luxe feeling than even the best internal combustion engines. I would guess that there's also less vibration traveling up through the handle?

I agree about the "luxe" feeling. It's the combination of no vibrations, extreme quiet, and the sharp blade. Very smooth operation. It's not an aggressive experience like trying to push a hot, noisy, heavy gas mower up a hill. Honestly it was fun. Also, there's no worrying that if you shut it off to move a branch it's not going to start again until it cools off.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I agree about the "luxe" feeling. It's the combination of no vibrations, extreme quiet, and the sharp blade. Very smooth operation. It's not an aggressive experience like trying to push a hot, noisy, heavy gas mower up a hill. Honestly it was fun. Also, there's no worrying that if you shut it off to move a branch it's not going to start again until it cools off.

Glad you're liking the new mower! Let us know what your final battery times look like after you get a good charge. And no cooking the numbers!

PS As I mentioned, my across-the-street neighbor has one, and (it appears) he can only do half the lawn at once. He's got about 3/4 acre, maybe a whole. Do these come with only one battery?

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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yup. My Echo and Ryobi blowers, Craftsman tractor, Stihl chainsaw, Craftsman snowblower, and Troy-Bilt splitter are/were all from 10-15 years-old and all without a hiccup. The only ICE machine I've ever had that didn't last as long as I'd hoped was a Weed Eater that I got five years out of before it got tricky to start. I accepted that when I bought it for $65 at Walmart, though, so it was easy to toss (and still wayyyy cheaper than an electric).

That being said, I do like my Greenworks 60V whacker and if they weren't more expensive might consider more.

Example: the Greenworks blower is $220 while the Echo blower AND vac is $230. With a 5-year-warranty on the echo, and being as efficient as it is, it's a no-brainer.

For me, electric garden tools just aren't there yet.

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You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

Bare tool comparison is fine as long as you've got a few batteries already—one or two isn't enough to do any real work—which means buying three whole kits or so. At that point, if we're looking at 40/60V vs. 18/20V, it's all I'd be buying anyway.

And, even if I compared, say, my blower and weed whackers only, I'm still way ahead at 15 and 10 years each vs. what the initial batteries would have last.

If someone could make a kit that *reasonably* worked on all tools—power and lawn—then I'm in a totally different mindset. But there's no way I'm trusting my level of snowblowing and lawn cutting to battery...yet.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Bare tool comparison is fine as long as you've got a few batteries already—one or two isn't enough to do any real work—which means buying three whole kits or so. At that point, if we're looking at 40/60V vs. 18/20V, it's all I'd be buying anyway.

And, even if I compared, say, my blower and weed whackers only, I'm still way ahead at 15 and 10 years each vs. what the initial batteries would have last.

If someone could make a kit that *reasonably* worked on all tools—power and lawn—then I'm in a totally different mindset. But there's no way I'm trusting my level of snowblowing and lawn cutting to battery...yet.


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It only takes one of the 40v and two of the 18v/20v to run the mower. The kits with four are specials.

I still have some NiCAD that hold a charge. At a point, it will be that you do not have the option.

Most manufacturers do not look to NH to see what they should be working toward in the future. There was a time that I thought I could guarantee that chainsaws would never become battery; and it wasn't that long ago.

https://www.echo-usa.com/press-relea...nd-garden-care

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You made a couple mistakes... if you already have the platform (batteries and charge), you need to compare the cost of a bare tool to the ICE.
Then you compare a battery tool warranty to a history of an ICE tool... but the warranty on the ICE tool was also short. This is failing logic that suggest the battery tool will not also last 10-15 years.

The math between these things is not as clear as many propose them to be.

The question really becomes do we need the new platforms, or would banks of the old platform be better.

Currently, someone that buys an electric mower using only their 18v/20v systems... will usually get the mower, two/four batteries, and the charger for the price. They will not need to buy batteries or another charger for the other items... just the bare tools.

But the real secret is to adjust the landscape. You'll use the tools a lot less after that.

Isn't a main problem that in fact battery mowers don't last 10-15 years, whereas a good gas mower does last that long?

Also, I do expect to have to upgrade my battery if I buy a snowblower. What runs a drill isn't going to run a snowblower.

I certainly agree about adjusting the landscape!! My property is ridiculous. I actually have a map with 15 different sections that need to be maintained. And of course we need to rethink our landscaping practices for environmental reasons. I also notice that a neglected property will eventually turn into vegetation that grows faster and needs more maintenance. I find it difficult to think of allowing sections to revert to unmowed fields. There's this compulsion to think that an entire property needs to be mowed grass.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Isn't a main problem that in fact battery mowers don't last 10-15 years, whereas a good gas mower does last that long?

Also, I do expect to have to upgrade my battery if I buy a snowblower. What runs a drill isn't going to run a snowblower.

I certainly agree about adjusting the landscape!! My property is ridiculous. I actually have a map with 15 different sections that need to be maintained. And of course we need to rethink our landscaping practices for environmental reasons. I also notice that a neglected property will eventually turn into vegetation that grows faster and needs more maintenance. I find it difficult to think of allowing sections to revert to unmowed fields. There's this compulsion to think that an entire property needs to be mowed grass.

Equipment tends to last very long. I still have a blue and yellow Ryobi drill/driver, compound trim saw, flashlight, etc. - they all work.
The change from the NiCad to the Li-Ion meant that the old charger would not work with the newer batteries, but the newer charger could charge the older batteries.

Any part of the system can wear out and need replacement... but only the snowthrower worries me. That is an item that when it is needed... it is needed.
Electric brushless (newer tools) tend to have pretty long reliable lifespans... batteries can vary... and chargers we never seem to notice until it doesn't charge (but I have so many back ups that we just swap them out).

The biggest thing I noticed, when I went to clover... the amount of mowing dropped dramatically - so the bigger threat to the mower is rust out of the deck, varnish build up in the carb, or just old gas.

It was the problem I was having with the gas powered string trimmer... I just didn't use it enough after working out some of the landscaping issues.

I was using the gas powered because the corded was driving me insane with extension cords and the limits imposed by those.

For the snowblower... this last season, I only remember using it a couple times.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It was the problem I was having with the gas powered string trimmer... I just didn't use it enough after working out some of the landscaping issues.

I noticed this also---once you've corrected a landscaping problem with, say, a high-wheeled mower trimmer, you won't need that machine again for awhile. However, when my lawnmower died on Friday I got out the 20-year-old Craftsman mower-trimmer that had not been used in 10 years, put in a bit of gas, and it started! Amazing that a spark plug could last that long in a humid garage.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I was using the gas powered because the corded was driving me insane with extension cords and the limits imposed by those.

Yes, I'm already tired of the corded dethatcher, now that I've experienced the satisfaction of a cordless machine.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

For the snowblower... this last season, I only remember using it a couple times.

Yes, but as you say, when you need it you need it.

[John Mercier]

Well, a brushless electric motor would most likely outlast anyone on this forum.
It is the other parts that we do not have a real history of.

I have a few years before the Ariens that I use gets to the point that rebuilding it costs more than it is worth... so I have some time to hear of any problems with the Ryobi snowthrower.

For the mower, the first battery powered was created in 1972.
But all the early versions were expensive robotic formats.

Black & Decker released the first battery lawn mower like we use in 2012.
They had created a solar powered one the year before... but felt the recharge rate was too slow.

The modern ones have the advantage of lower prices, longer battery life in a more compact version, brushless motors, etc.

So it isn't like these are new... just they have reached the point to be commercially viable.
Whether they sell a lot of riding lawn mowers will be rather interesting.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

However, when my lawnmower died on Friday I got out the 20-year-old Craftsman mower-trimmer that had not been used in 10 years, put in a bit of gas, and it started! Amazing that a spark plug could last that long in a humid garage.

Try doing that with a battery-operated machine...

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[John Mercier]

I do all the time.
Many of my Ryobi tools (blue and yellow) are at least that age.
Pop in a new 18v and away I go.

The new brushless... no one is even sure of how long the motors will last.
Estimates as high as 50,000 hours have been presented.