Meredith SB-2 petition

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by wifi

First there is the battering ram approach, where if SB-2 was approved, you would be voting by "hiding behind a curtain", now the emotional pleading rolls out.

There might be hope for SB-2 yet, where logical arguments have been made.

What's kind of interesting now that the Meredith News editorial (post #103) that came out today in favor of SB-2 for Meredith, Center Harbor, Sandwich, and Moultonboro is there's an earlier Meredith News editorial in this thread back in January, where it says people need to find out more about SB-2, and maybe should learn more on it before deciding. Well, there's certainly been no shortage of SB-2 information, courtesy from all four corners of the area. It's like SB-2 is a-bloom'n all over the place.....in spite of the heavy snow.....some think it's a weed....and others think it's a flower.

Guess we'll find out what it is when the vote is held, on Tuesday, March 11, from 7am to 7pm. And, as you know, 60% is needed for it, SB2 town and/or SB2 school, to get passed.

ps

What do you think about that post #101 about the POW/MIA memorial? Is that something, or what?

[SAMIAM]

In case you couldn't make the meeting,Inter-Lakes School District only took 1 1/2 hours to spend over 18 Mil of taxpayers money.As you might expect,the meeting was attended mostly by teachers and employees of the district.The vote to pass was 150 to 20......my,what a surprise.
My problem is not that we need money for schools...of course we do and most citizens support that.My concern is the town meeting system that disenfranchises so many and allows special interestsi to stack the meetings and vote in their own best interest.
Just imagine how nice it would be to gather all of your family and friends,attend town meeting and vote for a nice addition to your home,a nice pay raise for yourself and family....and maybe a nice retirement fund.And then hand the bill over to the taxpayers.
Of course ,it might help if you ridicule and insult those few who dare oppose you.....you have children to raise...how could they be so cheap...and yes,uninformed.

[Skip]

At the Shaker Regional School District annual meeting yesterday the SB-2 proposal failed on a narrow margin.

More details can be read HERE at this morning's Citizen on-line.

[fatlazyless]

As I understand it, the Shaker Regional School District vote was held for one hour, from 7-8pm last night (see post #92). In Meredith, the polls will be open for 12 hours, from 7am-7pm at the Community Center, on Tuesday, which in my opinion, will be helpfull to SB-2 supporters. Still, topping 60% is definately a high hurdle.
..........
Read the other 10 paragraphs in this article in the March 8, www.laconiadailysun.com

[EricP]

If I can't be there is there anything I can do Monday morning to get an absentee vote?

[fatlazyless]

Sorry, but don't think there's any absentee voting, as the system is now set up, but maybe I am incorrect? That is something that SB-2 would change.

As the system now is set up, Meredith has three different polls, held at seperate times and different venues. Meredith has about 4700 people who are eligible to vote out of a total population of about 6000, as the minimum age to vote is 21.

The vote at the school district meeting which was last Wednesday night, March 5, at the High School, where the vote was 150 YES, verses 20 NO , to approve the 18.4 million dollar, School Administrative Unit budget.

An all-day, 7am-7pm,, paper ballot vote, will be held on this Tuesday, March 11, that includes a number of warrants and ballots including the two SB-2 warrant questions for the town and the school district, a selectman's ballot with Chuck Palm vs. Jim Waldron, and other ballots such as the town clerk.

And, another vote is held at Town Meeting, on Wednesday night, March 12, that includes the rebuild-expansion of the fire station and a new fire truck.

What voting YES on the two SB-2 questions for town and school would do, is to change this scheme so there would just be one voting time and place for everything as opposed to three. It would be a private paper ballot in a voting booth, held on the second Tuesday in March, open from 7am to 7pm, and with absentee voters welcome.

Please vote yes to the two SB-2 questions, for town & school, at this Tuesday's, March 11, Community Center which will be open from 7am-7pm.

It will mean that in the future, a whole lot more Meredith residents will show up and vote.

After all, it's your money, or at least, it was your money! So, we can all say good-bye to our money together and hope for a little brighter future in Meredith with SB-2.

~thanks~

[fatlazyless]

It says that Meredith has approved SB-2 with a vote of 616-yes, and 456-no. That is all it says, and considering the source, NH's largest tv station, I am cautiously pessimistic and am waiting to see some more news on Meredith SB-2.

Is that the 60% that is needed? No, it is not! hmmmm

Could be WMUR got the numbers and just did not know about the 60% requirement?

Also, there were two SB-2 warrants, question #1 for the school district, and #7 for the town.
...........
(later on at 10:40)

The Concord Monitor is reporting some slightly different numbers with 606-yes and 456-no, which would be 57.1% yes, and 42.9% no. Pretty decent numbers for a first try effort, but still not good enough to top the high hurdle of a 60%, super majority, that is required. Meredith has about 4700 voters out of a total population of 6000.

Will SB-2 be back next year? Time will tell, it always does. On next presidential election day, Tuesday November 4, at the Community Center voting place, will I be there in my olde rocking chair with another SB-2 petition for anyone who choses to sign?

Most likely!

And, the numbers for the school distict SB-2 are still pending, as it includes the three towns of Sandwich, Center Harbor and Meredith.

I want to thank this website, winnipesaukee.com, and Don the Webmaster for doing whatever it takes to keep this forum up & running. It always runs along very smoothly so there's got to be plenty work to make it what it is. Thanks again, Mr. Webmaster!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It says that Meredith has approved SB-2 with a vote of 616-yes, and 456-no. That is all it says, and considering the source, NH's largest tv station, I am cautiously pessimistic and am waiting to see some more news on Meredith SB-2.

Is that the 60% that is needed? No, it is not! hmmmm

Could be WMUR got the numbers and just did not know about the 60% requirement?

Also, there were two SB-2 warrants, question #1 for the school district, and #7 for the town.

According to the Concord Monitor SB-2 did not fare well in Meredith or across the State yesterday.

From the Monitor....

"...Ten local communities contemplated ditching their traditional annual meetings in favor of SB2, where voters meet to debate the warrant articles but wait until election day to vote on them. Belmont made the switch - by just 11 votes - but most communities did not.

The measure had the support of more than a majority of voters in Northwood, Deering and Meredith but not the required super-majority. In Pittsfield, Hopkinton and Gilmanton, it didn't even garner a majority of the vote.

The town of Bristol and the Inter-Lakes and Winnisquam school districts also voted on SB2 last night, but those results were not available by deadline..."

[fatlazyless]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the difference is that 50% articles are generated by the selectboard, while 60% articles are generated by a resident's petition along with at least 25 resident's signatures.

Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 (mostly zoning issues) were all 50%-ers as they were generated by the selectboard.

Articles 1 & 7 were 60%-ers because they were generated by petition.
......

Article 1 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Interlakes School District?"

Meredith school results - 599-yes (57.1%) vs 450-no (42.9%)

Here are the results for the other two towns in the Inter Lakes School District from today's LaDaSun

Sandwich results - 160-yes (34.6%) vs
302-no (65.4%)

Center Harbor - unknown for now

With Sandwich and Center Harbor's totals added to the Meredith numbers it dramatically lowers the level of support for SB-2 from a Meredith only level of 57.1% to an overall level of 49.4%.

Isn't that interesting. I have to wonder about Sandwich and why its' numbers are really so very different and opposite than the Meredith numbers? Like, what's up with the Sandwich voters? Are they supporters of higher funding for teaching and the school system, or what? Except for the Sandwich Notch Road, I am personally very unfamiliar with the Town of Sandwich.

Article 7 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Town of Meredith?"

results - 616-yes (57.5%) vs 456-no (42.5%)
.......

Considering these numbers, I wonder if the 5-person, selectboard would be willing to put these two articles on the next ballot at the 50% level?

One of the reason that these articles get so much more participation than the town meeting is because the residents of Meredith prefer the SB-2 style of voting. It allows them to participate, and keeps them engaged in the process. By reading about it in the press or internet forum during the one month between deliberative session and the ballot, they can learn all about the issues and then make a more educated vote.

The town meeting is more exclusionary as is shown by the numbers of residents who participate. A whole lot more residents will show up to an all-day, 7am - 7pm, voting booth ballot, with absentee voting allowed, than go to town meeting. This makes the SB-2 style of voting a more representative and more informed electorate for Meredith.

Last night's annual Town Meeting had a vote of 285-yes vs 73-no for the 2.3mil fire station expansion, and 304-yes vs 54-no for the 400k-567 acre Page Pond conservation area. So, that says the town meeting had a total of 358 voters, while the all-day vote for candidates and articles had a total of about 1060 voters. This lets us know that almost exactly three times the number of Meredith voters participated in the daytime ballot then did at the night time, town meeting. Yes, almost exactly THREE TIMES as many Meredith voters.

Meredith has about 6000 residents and about 4700 who are old enough to vote.

With the results from Tuesday's election now known, will the 5-member selectboard please consider putting it on the next ballot at the 50% level ?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the difference is that 50% articles are generated by the selectboard, while 60% articles are generated by a resident's petition along with at least 25 resident's signatures.

Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 (mostly zoning issues) were all 50%-ers as they were generated by the selectboard.

Articles 1 & 7 were 60%-ers because they were generated by petition.
......

Article 1 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Interlakes School District?"

results - 599-yes (57.1%) vs 450-no (42.9%)
.......

Article 7 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Town of Meredith?"

results - 616-yes (57.5%) vs 456-no (42.5%)
.......

Considering these numbers, I wonder if the 5-person, selectboard would be willing to put these two articles on the next ballot at the 50% level?

One of the reason that these articles get so much more participation than the town meeting is because the residents of Meredith prefer the SB-2 style of voting. It allows them to participate, and keeps them engaged in the process. By reading about it in the press during the one month between deliberative session and the ballot, they can learn all about the issues and then make a more educated vote.

The town meeting is more exclusionary as is shown by the numbers of residents who participate. A whole lot more residents will show up to an all-day, 7am - 7pm, voting booth ballot, with absentee voting allowed, than go to town meeting. This makes the SB-2 style of voting a more representative and more informed electorate for Meredith.

Last night's annual Town Meeting had a vote of 285-yes vs 73-no for the 2.3mil fire station expansion, and 304-yes vs 54-no for the 400k-567 acre Page Pond conservation area. So, that says the town meeting had a total of 358 voters, while the all-day vote for candidates and articles had a total of about 1060 voters. This lets us know that almost exactly three times the number of Meredith voters participated in the daytime ballot then did at the night time, town meeting. Yes, almost exactly THREE TIMES as many Meredith voters.

Meredith has about 6000 residents and about 4700 who are old enough to vote.

With the results from Tuesday's election now known, will the 5-member selectboard please consider putting it on the next ballot at the 50% level ?

Less, I think it has more to do with what the article does versus what the selectman want. SB-2 involves changing the form of government which typically requires a super majority. It depends on the town's charter and sometimes state rules, not somebody's whim. I'm sure Skip will provide a better explanation.

[fatlazyless]

Say ITD, yes, thanks for that...certainly makes sense that the NH legislature would have a much higher ceiling of approval for a law that changes the form of voting than for a zoning ordinance.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by ITD

Less, I think it has more to do with what the article does versus what the selectman want. SB-2 involves changing the form of government which typically requires a super majority. It depends on the town's charter and sometimes state rules, not somebody's whim. I'm sure Skip will provide a better explanation.

ITD, you are correct. It actually takes a 3/5 vote to adopt the provisions of SB-2. This "super" majority is dictated by New Hampshire State law.

The pertinent RSA is rather lengthy, so in order to save Don some bandwidth I'll just provide a link to RSA 40:14 for anyone to review at their own leisure.

Skip

[fatlazyless]

As one voter out of the 616 Meredith voters who said yes to SB-2 town on Tuesday, here's what I think.

I was indeed very surprised that it got 57.5% support, and had been thinking that anything above 50% would be doing extremely well for the first try.

Apparently, getting it passed for the schools will be much more difficult, as the overall level of support for Inter Lakes was lowered down to 49.4% with Sandwich and Center Harbor added to the mix.

Why do I even care? For me, it is all about the money, or lack of money, as I watch helplessly as my property tax grows and grows. In the last four years, it has gone from $2800. to 8500./year. That is $708.33/month for me, and as an unemployed cdl-a truck driver, or unemployed painter & ceramic tile guy, I have too much time on my hands, no job, and am basically pissed, and SB-2 gives me something to do.

In New Hampshire, with our wacky tax system, one can pay off their mortgage, then lose their job, and then watch as their property tax goes up every year until it is just too much.

A decent paying job is the answer. Having a NH tax system based on one's ability to pay, such as an income tax is also a very good thing.

Each and every one of the individual 616 Meredith voters who went to the polls on Tuesday did it for themself. It was their personal choice. Most times, I believe that people will vote their wallets first & last. They vote what they think is in their best economic interest.

So for me, SB-2 is basically an expression of anger over the Meredith property tax.

Getting 200 residents to sign on to the two SB-2 petitions on presidential primary day was not all that difficult. Getting a job has been impossible!

I think I will just leave it at that and not go into the 7am-7pm, private voting ballot, absentee votes, greater number of voters, and 30 days of thinking about the ballots between deliberative session and election Tuesday.....everyone knows all about the nuts & bolts of the difference in the style of voting between SB-2 and Town Meeting....ad infinitum.

So, will you see me on Tuesday, November 4, on presidential election day, set up outside the community center collecting signatures, again? Hopefully no, because I will be working.

[Seaplane Pilot]

NH Supreme court has ruled that the Macdowell Art Colony in Peterboro is a charitable organization and can retain it's property-tax "exempt" status. Peterboro selectman tried to change this status after 100 or so years, but the Macdowell Colony prevailed in court. I think we should all look into forming charitable organizations at our lake homes and apply for tax exempt status. FLL, are you an artist?? That might be your out!

http://www.macdowellcolony.org/PR-31408.pdf

[fatlazyless]

How about the Appalachian Mountain Club's Three Mile Island on Lake Winnipesaukee, in Meredith, where you can rent a rustic cabin for a week long stay and get community meals in the dining hall? Canoes, rowboats, a waterski boat, a waterfront area, and a performing arts group is part of the Three Mile Island attraction. Is that exempt of Meredith property taxes? How is their use all that different from a homeowner on Pine, Bear or Jolly Island?