NH Mask Mandates

[MotorHead]

Sorry, I take that back.

I found a copy of your diploma.

[jbolty]

so it's meme war now?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by DEJ

That's your opinion flyingscot. Obviously the anti maskers do not share your opinion. Why is it so important that you and others try to beat them into submission for believing what they do? Is it an ego thing? I just do not get it.

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

[Bear Islander]

When I see people not wearing a mask I wonder... Do they not have a doctor? Do they ignore their doctor?

During a recent check up I asked my doctor what I should do about Covid. His answer "wear a mask, social distance, wash hands and get vaccinated asap."

If anybody answers that their doctor told them the opposite, quite frankly, I don't believe you.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

Because only you have been given the revealed truth and all the rest of us are too stupid to see your infinate wisdom. Or something.

Don't know how we have been able to stumble through life without your guidance.

[thinkxingu]

Hahahaha!



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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Sorry, I take that back.

I found a copy of your diploma.

My opinion certainly has nothing to do with who is or was the president. I am intelligent enough to do my own research and form my own opinions without the help of the media or politicians. Unlike yourself.

[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...?ocid=msedgntp

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

Not if he/she follows the rules and stays at least 6 feet away from people. After all, that is what the government has told us will work, right? If you can't stay 6 feet apart then wear a mask. So we've been told for over a year.

But the question we should be asking is do the vaccines actually WORK?
If vaccinated then you SHOULD be protected against getting the virus (maybe not 100%, but a high percentage of protection)...and you don't "shed" or "spread" if you don't have the virus.

But if we are told by the "experts" who are pushing the vaccines that we should continue to do exactly as we have been for the last year even after being vaccinated (mask up, social distance, etc.), then someone is selling us a bill of goods...or they fear not being reelected.

It works or it doesn't. And I have a hard time believing that the experts we have all been listening to don't know by now. They are, after all, the "experts."

[Biggd]

This thread is getting a little out of control. Lifting of the mask mandate is really for outdoors which is fine because it's easier to keep your distance from people
Most indoor businesses will still require you to wear a mask. If you can't abide by those rules then don't go in. The cost of closing for 2 weeks if an employee gets Covid or comes in contact, far out weighs the cost of losing a few customers that refuse to wear masks.

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[jbolty]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Not if he/she follows the rules and stays at least 6 feet away from people. After all, that is what the government has told us will work, right? If you can't stay 6 feet apart then wear a mask. So we've been told for over a year.

But the question we should be asking is do the vaccines actually WORK?
If vaccinated then you SHOULD be protected against getting the virus (maybe not 100%, but a high percentage of protection)...and you don't "shed" or "spread" if you don't have the virus.

But if we are told by the "experts" who are pushing the vaccines that we should continue to do exactly as we have been for the last year even after being vaccinated (mask up, social distance, etc.), then someone is selling us a bill of goods...or they fear not being reelected.

It works or it doesn't. And I have a hard time believing that the experts we have all been listening to don't know by now. They are, after all, the "experts."

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.

--Thomas Sowell

[Pricestavern]

So...the whole world has been duped into wearing masks? The governments of the world and their peoples have been duped by a massive fraud of an unprecedented scale? Masks don't work. Yet you are required to wear them in many countries around the world. And when I say 'required' I mean you are fined heavily for not wearing one. Seems a tad aggressive for something that has 'no basis in science' and has been 'proven' not to work or be 'worth it'. But I guess if Tucker says it, than it must be so.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

So...the whole world has been duped into wearing masks? The governments of the world and their peoples have been duped by a massive fraud of an unprecedented scale? Masks don't work. Yet you are required to wear them in many countries around the world. And when I say 'required' I mean you are fined heavily for not wearing one. Seems a tad aggressive for something that has 'no basis in science' and has been 'proven' not to work or be 'worth it'. But I guess if Tucker says it, than it must be so.

Tucker who?

Oh, that's right -- I have a different viewpoint on this subject so I must be, well -- governed by a media personality and ignorant in general.

Aren't you the least bit skeptical?

And for the record, I don't watch Tucker or any other "news" channels in the evenings. No network, either. Usually I am watching something on BritBox or AmazonPrime by 7 pm.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda.

On this thread, I was referring to jbolty. You jumping in on jbolty's behalf led me to think you support his positions.

His misinformation was that there was not a hint of scientific evidence that supports masks, and he persisted in this even after being shown by Think much more than a hint. He then went on to assert that articles published in a leading medical journal are no more valid than any other opinion. This fundamental denial of science is both sad and dangerous

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

On this thread, I was referring to jbolty. You jumping in on jbolty's behalf led me to think you support his positions.

You thought wrong.

[TKD]

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by TKD

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.

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Welcome. Not all of us here are Karens. Many others monitor and shake their heads. This forum can be enlightening, entertaining, and informative. Enjoy

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[4 for Boating]

So at what point will masks no longer be needed?
What criteria is to be used to say - you don't have to wear one any longer?

Is it when each and every US citizen has been offered the vaccine?
We seem to be getting close to that point as some states are already offering to anyone over 16 and have open appointments.

I'm guessing that some will never get the vaccine - are we to wear masks for those that by their own choice, choose not to get it?

Truth be told - I'm a mask wearer (easy thing to do at least for me) but just curious, what are the specific set of events or metric's that will change this dynamic?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

You have to stop speaking in absolutes. You just lose your credibility. This is one of dozens of videos I’ve seen of maskless people losing their minds when asked to put one on by a retail establishment. Something they have the right to do. Stop acting like anti-maskers are angels.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskle...ordstrom-rack/

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda.

Post #88 certainly seems to confirm your inclination to one side.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TKD

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.


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Your first post attacked other people as paranoid and hysterical

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by jbolty

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

summary

The study concludes

And others claim the hypotheses in the article false. Back to square one.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...cks-evidence-/

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[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by joey2665

The only way I am jeopardizing you if if you believe the masks and vaccine dont work. It you are worried then protect yourself that is your responsibility, my not wearing a mask has NO affect on you just me if I want to take that risk.

If we can't get through this kind of warped logic, then let's just forget it.

It's all statistics.

If I'm vaccinated you are LESS likely to infect me (whether you wear a mask or not).
If I'm vaccinated and wear a mask you're EVEN LESS likely to infect me, but you still can !!!
If we are both vaccinated and both wear mask those are the BEST ODDS of infecting each other. But it's still possible.

Sure the odds are low. But what if we are passing that new strain and it gets into a community that has less protection. It mutates and then comes BACK and our vaccine no longer work.

NOTHING is 100%

We have no idea how effective the vaccines are on ALL the new strains out there now and the NEW ones that WILL come.

It's like a smoldering fire. After the fire is "Out" you drown it with more water and wait an hour to make sure it's out. With COVID there are cinders still burning with tons of fuel left. Don't walk away now and assume it will burn out. It MIGHT, but it might not. Why take ANY chance?

This is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's about ALL of US.

If we use EVERY thing in our power, the sooner and more likely we can get it under control.

If you decide to get on the highway with no brakes. Are you risking your life or everyones? This is no different. What you do, does effect others.
And if you do get sick you burden OUR hospitals and our tax dollars to try and save you.

You live in a COMMON WEALTH and we are in this TOGETHER whether you like it or not.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Post #88 certainly seems to confirm your inclination to one side.


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Your assumption is incorrect.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Your first post attacked other people as paranoid and hysterical

Funny. God bless you Johnny Lawrence. Again, relax and go enjoy life.

Signed Daniel San

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

You have to stop speaking in absolutes. You just lose your credibility. This is one of dozens of videos I’ve seen of maskless people losing their minds when asked to put one on by a retail establishment. Something they have the right to do. Stop acting like anti-maskers are angels.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskle...ordstrom-rack/


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Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/...-social-policy

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/...-social-policy

Do any of you anti-maskers ever research your "sources"? I mean, Jesus Christ this is bad:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Don't_Work

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[DEJ]

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.

Agreed, but c'mon—at least post reasonably researched support to add to the conversation. Or is that even too much to ask in '21?

Given that "alternative facts" is a thing, perhaps so.

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[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by DEJ

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.

100% agreed, hence my earlier comment.

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Agreed, but c'mon—at least post reasonably researched support to add to the conversation. Or is that even too much to ask in '21?

Given that "alternative facts" is a thing, perhaps so.

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Perhaps some think the research they did was reasonable. That is their right. Just because some disagree there is no need to try and shame them or belittle them. This goes for both sides of this or any other issue.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Do any of you anti-maskers ever research your "sources"? I mean, Jesus Christ this is bad:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Don't_Work

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Liberals need to update their playbook. The current playbook is outdated and predictable, and just consists of insulting, degrading, disparaging and discrediting. (Pssssssst....masks do not prevent the spread of viruses)

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Your assumption is incorrect.

It’s a deduction, not an assumption.

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/...-social-policy

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...-pseudoscience


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[DEJ]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

It’s a deduction, not an assumption.

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Your deduction is incorrect.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...-pseudoscience


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I think you are making a huge assumption here. Many people like myself that do not agree with wearing masks either do not patron the establishment that requires masks or like I do many times, if the business requires masks I will wear them (this is america and as business owners it this their choice not set up or not set up mask requirements, also taking into account government guidelines) if they do not require them I do not wear them. I am not pushing an agenda by not wearing my mask were I am not required as I do not think you are if you wear it everywhere, that is you choice

[MotorHead]

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskle...ordstrom-rack/

I wonder if she posts on this website ?

[WinnisquamZ]

One more with your morning coffee. Can’t smoke with a mask on. Is it smoking or no mask?

https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot...-19-again.html


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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I think you are making a huge assumption here. Many people like myself that do not agree with wearing masks either do not patron the establishment that requires masks or like I do many times, if the business requires masks I will wear them (this is america and as business owners it this their choice not set up or not set up mask requirements, also taking into account government guidelines) if they do not require them I do not wear them. I am not pushing an agenda by not wearing my mask were I am not required as I do not think you are if you wear it everywhere, that is you choice

My first sentence clearly states I’m referring to the anti-maskers who throw tantrums. I have no issue with anti-maskers who calmly go about their business. It’s impossible to know if someone is wearing a mask because they want to or because they have to. I don’t confront people who aren’t wearing masks when I’m out shopping because I really don’t care, unless they’re standing way too close. Then they get the hairy eyeball. But I did that pre-Covid because if someone is standing within a foot of me in a store, I question their motives.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...-pseudoscience


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I agree on one of your points. No tantrums necessary. If you don't want to wear a mask, just move on. But on the other hand, you support my point. Why do pro-masker Karens get in the faces of anti-maskers? Leave us alone.

Now, about your analogy on smoking - this makes no sense. If you had said that you went into an establishment, lit up a cigarette and tried to force everyone else to smoke, then it would have been a valid analogy to what the pro-maskers are doing.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I agree on one of your points. No tantrums necessary. If you don't want to wear a mask, just move on. But on the other hand, you support my point. Why do pro-masker Karens get in the faces of anti-maskers? Leave us alone.

Now, about your analogy on smoking - this makes no sense. If you had said that you went into an establishment, lit up a cigarette and tried to force everyone else to smoke, then it would have been a valid analogy to what the pro-maskers are doing.

Then we agree there is no need for tantrums from either side. But let’s be clear, an employee in a store who asks someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. They are enforcing the rules of the business. And that was the point of my analogy. Customers have to abide by the rules established by a business, whether they agree with them or not.

In no way do I condone individuals confronting other people about not wearing a mask. It’s easier to just move along and away from the unmasked person. The exception is if you’re in line at the store and the unmasked person is standing close behind you, which is creepy even without covid. As I said in another post, if that happens to me, they get the hairy eyeball. If the unmasked person is in front of me in line, I just keep my distance.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Then we agree there is no need for tantrums from either side. But let’s be clear, an employee in a store who asks someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. They are enforcing the rules of the business. And that was the point of my analogy. Customers have to abide by the rules established by a business, whether they agree with them or not.

In no way do I condone individuals confronting other people about not wearing a mask. It’s easier to just move along and away from the unmasked person. The exception is if you’re in line at the store and the unmasked person is standing close behind you, which is creepy even without covid. As I said in another post, if that happens to me, they get the hairy eyeball. If the unmasked person is in front of me in line, I just keep my distance.


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I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than their own, is.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than there own, is.

Then we are in total agreement on that point. Woohoo for rational discourse!

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[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than their own, is.

Are you really a Seaplane pilot?
Do you provide lake or land tours?

Thank you.

[Flylady]

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

Agree. This is spilt 50 50 across the state as those getting vaccinated appear to be between 50/60 percent according to Gov Sununu. At those numbers businesses and customers will be at odds. Interesting dilemma for both parties


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[tis]

Leave the sign on the door that says masks required but don't enforce it. It's not worth an argument with a customer since it is no longer law.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

I think there are more people who will go with the flow than you think. If the business requires masks, the majority of anti-maskers will abide. If they don’t require masks, many mask wearers will go in with a mask, perhaps waiting until the business isn’t crowded. Businesses may still see lower numbers than in 2019, but I think most will see an increase over last year’s sales.

Can someone remind me what phase NH is in? Is social distancing still required in restaurants? I’ve been in Florida for the majority of the pandemic. Requirements vary by county, and since I’m in the Four Corners area (where Lake, Orange, Osceola, and Polk counties meet), the requirements differ amongst places I frequent. Even within the counties, different businesses have different requirements. Few restaurants are social distancing. I do what I am comfortable with by observing what’s going on within each business. At this point, that includes going to and partaking in karaoke. That’s because I am a social creature and need that interaction. What good is a sound body without a sound mind?


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by tis

Leave the sign on the door that says masks required but don't enforce it. It's not worth an argument with a customer since it is no longer law.

Or losing sales over it

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[LoveLakeLife]

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


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From what I was told by restaurant owners that it's for the protection of the employees. If an employee gets Covid the restaurant has to shut down and be sanitized. which is more costly than losing a few non masking customers.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


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People behind me in line are pointing directly at the gaps in my mask. What's the problem with maintaining 3 feet of distance? I don't need them to be 6 feet, but if they're within the distance where I might have to take a step back and I bump into them, they're too close.

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[4 for Boating]

Originally Posted by Biggd

From what I was told by restaurant owners that it's for the protection of the employees. If an employee gets Covid the restaurant has to shut down and be sanitized. which is more costly than losing a few non masking customers.

Sort of tied to my original post - the vaccine is open now to everyone over 16 I think in NH since 4/2 - about 3 weeks now. (In fact now, people from out of state can get a shot in NH). Of course this will take some time to get to everyone in that BIG group but at some point where those that wanted the vaccine (restaurant workers) and got it has passed - would patrons still need to wear a mask?

Would seem that we should be able to forecast such a date.
What if an employee refuses to get the vaccine - interesting dilemma?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

Sort of tied to my original post - the vaccine is open now to everyone over 16 I think in NH since 4/2 - about 3 weeks now. (In fact now, people from out of state can get a shot in NH). Of course this will take some time to get to everyone in that BIG group but at some point where those that wanted the vaccine (restaurant workers) and got it has passed - would patrons still need to wear a mask?

Would seem that we should be able to forecast such a date.

What if an employee refuses to get the vaccine - interesting dilemma?

With unemployment around 0% in the hospitality business here in the Lakes Region
I don’t see ones refusal to get vaccinated an issue for maintaining ones employment. As President Clinton use to say “Don’t ask don’t tell”

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[4 for Boating]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

With unemployment around 0% in the hospitality business here in the Lakes Region
I don’t see ones refusal to get vaccinated an issue for maintaining ones employment. As President Clinton use to say “Don’t ask don’t tell”

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Right - so what happens then > an employee refuses to get the vaccine - the business cannot make them (understandably) - is the business still going to mandate masks to protect these employees and in fear of those employees getting sick and impacting the business? Everyone has to wear masks for those that refuse?

[WinnisquamZ]

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk


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A basic tenet of employment law is that an employer must treat all employees equally. If only one refuses a vaccine, maybe that's not a big deal. But if a significant number refuse, all of a sudden the employer can no longer just shrug his shoulders.

Plus, even if that one employee is in a high customer contact position, and there are a significant number of unvaccinated customers coming in...

[WinnisquamZ]

https://www.wmur.com/article/state-h...nated/36192998


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[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

Fair point.

Third option. Government Keeps the mandate to wear a mask.
Business owner follows the law.
non-mask wearers have no issue because they are simply following the law.
And the mask wearers are happy.
A few non maskers will be concerned with their tan lines and not go, but most would go.

Doing what governor did, basically is open season road rage, and causes the lose-lose situation you describe and is exactly the point I was making.
I guarantee it's gonna get ugly now.

This thread is a perfect example.

[SailinAway]

The unspoken truth in this entire thread and similar threads in this forum for the past year is that the differences between pro- and anti-mask wearers are profound and probably immutable:

• Caring about oneself versus caring about others and the whole of society
• Searching for scientific truth versus believing demagogues
• Reflective versus led by emotions
• Seeking social progress versus regressing to a primitive social state
• Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom
• Feeling connected to others (globally) versus clinging to individual identity

These orientations run so deep that there is very little chance that a person will "switch sides" in mid life. They are part and parcel of who we are. For many people, these ways of thinking and being originated in childhood, where we came from, who our parents are. Some may break away from their social and political roots, but by the time you're in your mid twenties, you've probably chosen a camp and intend to stay there.

Is there any hope of repairing this divide, before it destroys us? (Because it WILL destroy us, whether through this pandemic or the next or, certainly, the climate crisis.) We're sort of out of time. The vast social changes that are needed take centuries, millennia, or maybe we just don't have it in us as a species to come together and solve these massive crises ever. We would need to develop such a high level of social cooperation that our desire for survival of the SPECIES would outweigh our individual desire for self-preservation at the expense of the species. The fatal flaw in humans is that the instinct for individual preservation is built into our genetic makeup, but not the awareness that in order for us to survive individually, our species must survive.

That in a nutshell explains why people are unwilling to wear a mask to protect other people. They don't understand that if hundreds of millions of people get sick and die, eventually they themselves will either be killed by the virus or they will suffer some other grave consequence through economic collapse, collapse of the food system, social chaos, etc.

I'm not a philosopher. For a take on these questions from a real philosopher, this 2020 book looks well worth reading: The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity, by Oxford University philosopher Toby Ord https://www.amazon.com/Precipice-Exi.../dp/0316484911

[fatlazyless]

April 22, www.nytimes.com ....... Do We Still Need to Wear a Mask, Outdoors? ..... in the middle of the front page ..... is a good long look at this issue if you are bored out of your mind right now, and have nothing better to do.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

The unspoken truth in this entire thread and similar threads in this forum for the past year is that the differences between pro- and anti-mask wearers are profound and probably immutable:

• Caring about oneself versus caring about others and the whole of society
• Searching for scientific truth versus believing demagogues
• Reflective versus led by emotions
• Seeking social progress versus regressing to a primitive social state
• Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom
• Feeling connected to others (globally) versus clinging to individual identity

These orientations run so deep that there is very little chance that a person will "switch sides" in mid life. They are part and parcel of who we are. For many people, these ways of thinking and being originated in childhood, where we came from, who our parents are. Some may break away from their social and political roots, but by the time you're in your mid twenties, you've probably chosen a camp and intend to stay there.

Is there any hope of repairing this divide, before it destroys us? (Because it WILL destroy us, whether through this pandemic or the next or, certainly, the climate crisis.) We're sort of out of time. The vast social changes that are needed take centuries, millennia, or maybe we just don't have it in us as a species to come together and solve these massive crises ever. We would need to develop such a high level of social cooperation that our desire for survival of the SPECIES would outweigh our individual desire for self-preservation at the expense of the species. The fatal flaw in humans is that the instinct for individual preservation is built into our genetic makeup, but not the awareness that in order for us to survive individually, our species must survive.

That in a nutshell explains why people are unwilling to wear a mask to protect other people. They don't understand that if hundreds of millions of people get sick and die, eventually they themselves will either be killed by the virus or they will suffer some other grave consequence through economic collapse, collapse of the food system, social chaos, etc.

I'm not a philosopher. For a take on these questions from a real philosopher, this 2020 book looks well worth reading: The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity, by Oxford University philosopher Toby Ord https://www.amazon.com/Precipice-Exi.../dp/0316484911

I understand your message however the delivery leaves a little to be desired IMO. Using terms and words like "demagogues" "Caring about oneself versus caring about others" "Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom" etc... does not help your credibility or your message. Putting down one side, the side you disagree with will never bring us together on this or any other issue. Just food for thought.

[Newbiesaukee]

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

A basic tenet of employment law is that an employer must treat all employees equally. If only one refuses a vaccine, maybe that's not a big deal. But if a significant number refuse, all of a sudden the employer can no longer just shrug his shoulders.

Plus, even if that one employee is in a high customer contact position, and there are a significant number of unvaccinated customers coming in...

We have a few restaurant owners on this site, maybe they could chime in.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these vaccine resisters have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

Did you just write Blacks, Hispanics, and Republicans lack basic education and logic? May I be the first to say your words are idiotic

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[Newbiesaukee]

That is not what Flying wrote and not what he meant. And I DO know what he meant. Those darn adjectives really do count.

You may not agree with him at all...but you can’t argue with what he did not say.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

Perhaps you should have done a little research before posting. It’s mistrust of the healthcare system that is behind minorities hesitancy to get the vaccine.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...istrust-doubts

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

Don't overlook many POC's intrinsic distrust of the medical institution. This has been documented for years in relation to historical treatment, the Tuskegee Experiments being one such catalyst for distrust.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Did you just write Blacks, Hispanics, and Republicans lack basic education and logic? May I be the first to say your words are idiotic

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Of course I didn't mean that. But I will change "these groups" to these "vaccine resistors"

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Perhaps you should have done a little research before posting. It’s mistrust of the healthcare system that is behind minorities hesitancy to get the vaccine.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...istrust-doubts

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I understand the history. White America screwing your ancestors in hundred different ways, including medical experiments, is real, and a good reason to pause for a moment or a few days. But to skip a vaccine that is vetted by the FDA and the vast majority of white America is clamoring for is an emotional response, not a logical one

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I understand your message however the delivery leaves a little to be desired IMO. Using terms and words like "demagogues" "Caring about oneself versus caring about others" "Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom" etc... does not help your credibility or your message. Putting down one side, the side you disagree with will never bring us together on this or any other issue. Just food for thought.

I can never bring YOU over to my way of thinking. Thus I send my message to those who can be reached by it and will be galvanized to take action on it. You've understood my message. Whether it motivates you to do something to sustain your species is up to you.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I can never bring YOU over to my way of thinking. Thus I send my message to those who can be reached by it and will be galvanized to take action on it. You've understood my message. Whether it motivates you to do something to sustain your species is up to you.

If you keep messaging the way you currently do then yes you will never bring me over to your way of thinking. Putting down the side you do not agree with will never accomplish anything. So in summary it is also up to you.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these vaccine resisters have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

I'm currently being treated for an aggressive skin rash.

My Dermatologist was wearing the standard rectangular mask, but it was looped only at the top corners. (...and hanging loose at the bottom corners). I regret complimenting its appearance!

But if everybody wore a similar mask, we'd all be in compliance, and we wouldn't hear threats from D.C. enforcing the cancelations of 4th of July gatherings.

Nor news from Canada about fencing off a church, and adding guards. (200 by one account).
https://globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject...rom%20%251%24s

[Flylady]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk

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This establishment announced it is closed again because of Covid-19 employee exposure? It is the second or third time they have had to close. It is no secret that in the area there is a large population of people that are against masks. To me this again illustrates that some people do not care what the impact is to their small communities by not wearing a mask in any indoor situation.

I would be very sad to see this restaurant fail.

[WinnisquamZ]

You are assuming it was transmitted by a non masked customer, are you not? Can I assume the employee contacted it from a family member or peer group? You don’t name the establishment and I have not heard of one being closed in this area so am I to believe you? With that said, if the establishment was following all protocols and still got a positive exposure shouldn’t that tell you everything that is being done won’t stop a virus.


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[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

You are assuming it was transmitted by a non masked customer, are you not? Can I assume the employee contacted it from a family member or peer group? You don’t name the establishment and I have not heard of one being closed in this area so am I to believe you? With that said, if the establishment was following all protocols and still got a positive exposure shouldn’t that tell you everything that is being done won’t stop a virus.


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It says Knotty Pine in the title, but if on a mobile I don't think you see the title

[WinnisquamZ]

True


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[trfour]

We will be waring Masks out of doors again soon. We are still too far from having Covid-19 infections under our control.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-mask-n1264937

[WinnisquamZ]

Counterpoint from WMUR of all people https://wmur.com/article/positive-tr...mbers/36203464


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[MotorHead]

FAKE NEWS.. Do not wear mask, Do not get vaccinated
This is all FAKE NEWS.. Right?

https://www.businessinsider.com/kent...utbreak-2021-4

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by trfour

We will be waring Masks out of doors again soon. We are still too far from having Covid-19 infections under our control.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-mask-n1264937

Never understood the need to wear a mask outdoors, unless you're in close quarters.

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[4 for Boating]

Would be nice for the government to tell us what exactly has to happen where we do not have to wear masks. It is not realistic to say when there are no more infections or to force people that don't want it to get it - that is simply never going to happen. Most likely, the government's projection of the population that they expect to get shot is going to fall way short. I personally don't see a lot of very low risk 16 year olds getting an emergency use shot with no track record but who knows.

At some point in the coming future, when everyone that wants the vaccine has been offered it and it was available to them (now with paid time off to get one) with a time buffer for the 2nd shot, I'm not sure I see why masks are still a factor after that point. Of course we call all pick whatever group we like to try to blame on for not getting the vaccine... In the end, someone's body, someone's choice.

Who are we protecting after that point by wearing a mask?
Once the state starts to say > We have vaccine supply but no longer have material volume of people asking/waiting for it - is it not time to take the mask off OR are we waiting for something else that we are not being told OR are we trying to protect those that choose to never get the vaccine?

[trfour]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Never understood the need to wear a mask outdoors, unless you're in close quarters.

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I just Liston to my Doctor, the medical Scientists whom many of which have studied Pandemics and speak the truth! This has kept me around for 76 years and hopefully another birthday coming up in August with Family.

Those people that think that they know better, still do so. Just look at the every day death toll...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I understand the history. White America screwing your ancestors in hundred different ways, including medical experiments, is real, and a good reason to pause for a moment or a few days. But to skip a vaccine that is vetted by the FDA and the vast majority of white America is clamoring for is an emotional response, not a logical one

Then there's this reasoned response to vaccinations:

"After working in Hazmat for much of my career... I sometimes had up to a dozen vaccines in a year. I never had any problems with any of them and these were serious vaccines for serious ailments. I would be more than happy to take another vaccine for something that was an actual threat to my health.

...and it turns out that most of my former co-workers want nothing to do with any of the Covid vaccines for a variety of reasons. The coercion and the suppression of information about side effects up to and including death are strong incentives to forget about it. But mostly the pathogen is so mild with such a low death rate for most people who have no health issues, plus it is contagious enough that by now most of us have had some low level exposures and have already developed an immune response. Sorry, but taking experimental vaccines because you have been terrorized by the media and politicians is asking for trouble".
.

[LoveLakeLife]

The federal government has no authority to enforce any so-called cancellation of Independence Day. Celebrate the holiday and don’t let your life be run by the government. Remember the state motto.


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[BrunoSR]

If you feel better wearing a mask, then wear one!!

That being said, do masks prevent transmitting or getting the virus?

I’d have to say they do not. I am not a doctor and I do not have a degree in any of the medical sciences. What I do have is practical experience.

Last November I worked with a coworker from another department, on a project. We were both in good health and both wearing masks. We were in close proximity of each other for about an hour. Two days later we were again working together, for about an hour, both still feeling fine, still wearing masks.

The next day he started feeling sick, I was ok. The following day he tested positive for Covid-19 as did a couple of others in his department.

The following day I started feeling ill, got sicker over the weekend. Monday, I called in sick at work. I was told to get tested as there was a breakout at work. I tested positive the next day.

I can’t guarantee that I got it from him, but no one else around me has had the virus. And I hadn’t been anywhere or been in any crowds.

Even though I don’t think that masks do a dam thing, I wear one in public. Why, to make others feel comfortable.

Now the real question here, is how many miles we have walked getting out of our cars to go into a store, getting to the door and saying, ****!! My mask! Turning around and getting it………………………………………………….

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by DEJ

If you keep messaging the way you currently do then yes you will never bring me over to your way of thinking. Putting down the side you do not agree with will never accomplish anything. So in summary it is also up to you.

One point of my post was to show that these worldviews are deeply entrenched and probably not changeable in a person over the age of 20 or so. That's true regardless of how the message is expressed! These basic worldviews are a huge part of our identity. You can't give them up without feeling like your identity is under assault. It's who you are.

Think of what it takes to get someone into and out of a cult. They have to experience a complete shift in their identity. Getting people out of a cult is very, very difficult because people feel psychologically threatened when you present them with facts that are counter to their built identity. Very few people are willing to consciously sit down and think through their system of beliefs---what it's built on, whether it serves good or bad purposes, whether it works for themselves and others.

The forces that maintain beliefs are subconscious. It takes a strong act of will to examine your beliefs point by point and be open to the possibility of changing them. Religious beliefs are an example of this, but in recent years political beliefs have become associated with very strong emotions to an extent that wasn't really the case in past eras. When the emotions become externalized---like at a political rally---the adrenaline rush pretty much rules out any possibility of introspection about your beliefs. Even in this forum, people make strong public statements affirming their identity. Every time you thank a poster, you're affirming your identity---always the same predictable group of people, affirming the same beliefs. There's really no retreat from that because now your public image is on the line. You can't say, "You know, I was thinking about my reasons for why I don't want to wear a mask. I guess I was only thinking my own needs. I decided that I do owe it to others to not make them sick if I'm infected, so I've decided to wear a mask. I regret that I may have unknowingly exposed people to COVID by not wearing a mask."

I think we need to be realistic about the extent to which people can change their beliefs and behaviors. Apparently people only change when they're faced with a monumental catastrophe. The sad truth is that the death of 570,000 Americans due to COVID-19 is not monumental enough. The current status of the climate crisis is not monumental enough. If you walked out your front door tomorrow and discovered that half of the people in your town had died of COVID---the plague wiped out half of Europe in the 1300s---and the temperature was 120 degrees in December, I dare say that would be monumental enough to change your beliefs and behaviors. The question is whether there is a midpoint in the size of the catastrophe that will change people's behavior in time to reverse a crisis. We haven't reached that point yet with COVID and we may have already passed the point where effective change is possible with the climate crisis.

I'm not putting you down. I'm making observations about human nature that apply to you and me both.

[trfour]

New cases are showing up, even after shots.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

[LoveLakeLife]

lol climate crisis a/k/a weather


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[trfour]

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/...-evolving.html

[trfour]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...d-wear-a-mask/

[gravy boat]

"As of April 20, when about 87 million Americans had been fully vaccinated, 7,157 breakthrough infections were reported to the CDC. The majority were among women (64%) and nearly half were among those older than 60 (46%). There were 498 hospitalizations and 88 deaths among those cases."

Full article:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/co...251004244.html

[AC2717]

the Gov reminded everyone that ALL restrictions from the State end May 7th. Then it is up to businesses to decide what they want to do. And then the public can make their own decisions to spend money there or not - the way it should be

obviously you have some municipalities in the state doing their own things as well but from a state perspective they are done May 7th

[ApS]

Americans ordered out of India, as country faces overwhelming COVID-19 onslaught:

In the advisory, US citizens were told "not to travel to India or to leave as soon as it is safe to do so".

"US citizens who wish to depart India should take advantage of available commercial transportation options now," it said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56932513

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

You're right about that. The hell with the masks.

I think that many republicans basically don't trust government. They prefer small government, a light hand and not being told what THEY have to do.

I can't really say I blame them, in some instances, government has really screwed up.

But sometimes you have to take a chance. If they don't join in, we are gonna be in trouble. There is gonna be some portion that doesn't get vaccinated. Say 10% (due to access, communication, illegal immigrants, what ever). But if half the republican's don't vaccinate that would bring us to around 65%. That's not good.

There are signs that the polls are correct. That the vaccination rate is slowing down in the USA. That is partly due to the J&J pause (limited supply and made nervous people even more nervous).

It really is amazing that we have 3 good vaccines available.

I read one good article on the J&J pause. Basically saying the odds of you getting the blood clot from J&J is 100 times less than it is that you get into a serious car accident getting to the location of the vaccine.

One positive note regarding masks in NH. I was in all my usual spots in the lakes region this past Thursday - Sunday. And mask wearing was about the same. Went to Polly's. We ate in, huge space between tables, masks required on the entrance, yes we removed masks to eat, all staff masked . Harts (take out, all visible staff masked), Home Depot and Local Hardware Store. All top notch being careful. Few patrons didn't wear masks, but that's "normal".

[Newbiesaukee]

A leading medical publisher has retracted an often cited article, including the dangers and ineffectiveness of masks, which has been referenced on our forum. The author is not who he said he is among other other serious issues raised. Stanford University has also confirmed this.

One link if you’re interested in beating another dead horse.

https://retractionwatch.com/2021/04/...d-affiliation/

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

A leading medical publisher has retracted an often cited article, including the dangers and ineffectiveness of masks, which has been referenced on our forum. The author is not who he said he is among other other serious issues raised. Stanford University has also confirmed this.

One link if you’re interested in beating another dead horse.

https://retractionwatch.com/2021/04/...d-affiliation/

Thanks, Newbie. As I referenced above, that piece was so easily debunked it was a testament to how much some of our forum members—and Americans as a whole—are at the mercy of confirmation bias.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

But if half the republican's don't vaccinate that would bring us to around 65%. That's not good.

We are already at, or maybe over, 50% of US adults vaccinated.

Still too many sitting on the sidelines, but they're coming around.

No masks outdoors in Mass today!