Meredith SB-2 petition

[fatlazyless]

It says that Meredith has approved SB-2 with a vote of 616-yes, and 456-no. That is all it says, and considering the source, NH's largest tv station, I am cautiously pessimistic and am waiting to see some more news on Meredith SB-2.

Is that the 60% that is needed? No, it is not! hmmmm

Could be WMUR got the numbers and just did not know about the 60% requirement?

Also, there were two SB-2 warrants, question #1 for the school district, and #7 for the town.
...........
(later on at 10:40)

The Concord Monitor is reporting some slightly different numbers with 606-yes and 456-no, which would be 57.1% yes, and 42.9% no. Pretty decent numbers for a first try effort, but still not good enough to top the high hurdle of a 60%, super majority, that is required. Meredith has about 4700 voters out of a total population of 6000.

Will SB-2 be back next year? Time will tell, it always does. On next presidential election day, Tuesday November 4, at the Community Center voting place, will I be there in my olde rocking chair with another SB-2 petition for anyone who choses to sign?

Most likely!

And, the numbers for the school distict SB-2 are still pending, as it includes the three towns of Sandwich, Center Harbor and Meredith.

I want to thank this website, winnipesaukee.com, and Don the Webmaster for doing whatever it takes to keep this forum up & running. It always runs along very smoothly so there's got to be plenty work to make it what it is. Thanks again, Mr. Webmaster!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It says that Meredith has approved SB-2 with a vote of 616-yes, and 456-no. That is all it says, and considering the source, NH's largest tv station, I am cautiously pessimistic and am waiting to see some more news on Meredith SB-2.

Is that the 60% that is needed? No, it is not! hmmmm

Could be WMUR got the numbers and just did not know about the 60% requirement?

Also, there were two SB-2 warrants, question #1 for the school district, and #7 for the town.

According to the Concord Monitor SB-2 did not fare well in Meredith or across the State yesterday.

From the Monitor....

"...Ten local communities contemplated ditching their traditional annual meetings in favor of SB2, where voters meet to debate the warrant articles but wait until election day to vote on them. Belmont made the switch - by just 11 votes - but most communities did not.

The measure had the support of more than a majority of voters in Northwood, Deering and Meredith but not the required super-majority. In Pittsfield, Hopkinton and Gilmanton, it didn't even garner a majority of the vote.

The town of Bristol and the Inter-Lakes and Winnisquam school districts also voted on SB2 last night, but those results were not available by deadline..."

[fatlazyless]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the difference is that 50% articles are generated by the selectboard, while 60% articles are generated by a resident's petition along with at least 25 resident's signatures.

Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 (mostly zoning issues) were all 50%-ers as they were generated by the selectboard.

Articles 1 & 7 were 60%-ers because they were generated by petition.
......

Article 1 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Interlakes School District?"

Meredith school results - 599-yes (57.1%) vs 450-no (42.9%)

Here are the results for the other two towns in the Inter Lakes School District from today's LaDaSun

Sandwich results - 160-yes (34.6%) vs
302-no (65.4%)

Center Harbor - unknown for now

With Sandwich and Center Harbor's totals added to the Meredith numbers it dramatically lowers the level of support for SB-2 from a Meredith only level of 57.1% to an overall level of 49.4%.

Isn't that interesting. I have to wonder about Sandwich and why its' numbers are really so very different and opposite than the Meredith numbers? Like, what's up with the Sandwich voters? Are they supporters of higher funding for teaching and the school system, or what? Except for the Sandwich Notch Road, I am personally very unfamiliar with the Town of Sandwich.

Article 7 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Town of Meredith?"

results - 616-yes (57.5%) vs 456-no (42.5%)
.......

Considering these numbers, I wonder if the 5-person, selectboard would be willing to put these two articles on the next ballot at the 50% level?

One of the reason that these articles get so much more participation than the town meeting is because the residents of Meredith prefer the SB-2 style of voting. It allows them to participate, and keeps them engaged in the process. By reading about it in the press or internet forum during the one month between deliberative session and the ballot, they can learn all about the issues and then make a more educated vote.

The town meeting is more exclusionary as is shown by the numbers of residents who participate. A whole lot more residents will show up to an all-day, 7am - 7pm, voting booth ballot, with absentee voting allowed, than go to town meeting. This makes the SB-2 style of voting a more representative and more informed electorate for Meredith.

Last night's annual Town Meeting had a vote of 285-yes vs 73-no for the 2.3mil fire station expansion, and 304-yes vs 54-no for the 400k-567 acre Page Pond conservation area. So, that says the town meeting had a total of 358 voters, while the all-day vote for candidates and articles had a total of about 1060 voters. This lets us know that almost exactly three times the number of Meredith voters participated in the daytime ballot then did at the night time, town meeting. Yes, almost exactly THREE TIMES as many Meredith voters.

Meredith has about 6000 residents and about 4700 who are old enough to vote.

With the results from Tuesday's election now known, will the 5-member selectboard please consider putting it on the next ballot at the 50% level ?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the difference is that 50% articles are generated by the selectboard, while 60% articles are generated by a resident's petition along with at least 25 resident's signatures.

Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 (mostly zoning issues) were all 50%-ers as they were generated by the selectboard.

Articles 1 & 7 were 60%-ers because they were generated by petition.
......

Article 1 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Interlakes School District?"

results - 599-yes (57.1%) vs 450-no (42.9%)
.......

Article 7 - "Shall we adopt the provisions of RSA40:13 (known as SB2) to allow official ballot voting on all issues before the Town of Meredith?"

results - 616-yes (57.5%) vs 456-no (42.5%)
.......

Considering these numbers, I wonder if the 5-person, selectboard would be willing to put these two articles on the next ballot at the 50% level?

One of the reason that these articles get so much more participation than the town meeting is because the residents of Meredith prefer the SB-2 style of voting. It allows them to participate, and keeps them engaged in the process. By reading about it in the press during the one month between deliberative session and the ballot, they can learn all about the issues and then make a more educated vote.

The town meeting is more exclusionary as is shown by the numbers of residents who participate. A whole lot more residents will show up to an all-day, 7am - 7pm, voting booth ballot, with absentee voting allowed, than go to town meeting. This makes the SB-2 style of voting a more representative and more informed electorate for Meredith.

Last night's annual Town Meeting had a vote of 285-yes vs 73-no for the 2.3mil fire station expansion, and 304-yes vs 54-no for the 400k-567 acre Page Pond conservation area. So, that says the town meeting had a total of 358 voters, while the all-day vote for candidates and articles had a total of about 1060 voters. This lets us know that almost exactly three times the number of Meredith voters participated in the daytime ballot then did at the night time, town meeting. Yes, almost exactly THREE TIMES as many Meredith voters.

Meredith has about 6000 residents and about 4700 who are old enough to vote.

With the results from Tuesday's election now known, will the 5-member selectboard please consider putting it on the next ballot at the 50% level ?

Less, I think it has more to do with what the article does versus what the selectman want. SB-2 involves changing the form of government which typically requires a super majority. It depends on the town's charter and sometimes state rules, not somebody's whim. I'm sure Skip will provide a better explanation.

[fatlazyless]

Say ITD, yes, thanks for that...certainly makes sense that the NH legislature would have a much higher ceiling of approval for a law that changes the form of voting than for a zoning ordinance.

[fatlazyless]

As one voter out of the 616 Meredith voters who said yes to SB-2 town on Tuesday, here's what I think.

I was indeed very surprised that it got 57.5% support, and had been thinking that anything above 50% would be doing extremely well for the first try.

Apparently, getting it passed for the schools will be much more difficult, as the overall level of support for Inter Lakes was lowered down to 49.4% with Sandwich and Center Harbor added to the mix.

Why do I even care? For me, it is all about the money, or lack of money, as I watch helplessly as my property tax grows and grows. In the last four years, it has gone from $2800. to 8500./year. That is $708.33/month for me, and as an unemployed cdl-a truck driver, or unemployed painter & ceramic tile guy, I have too much time on my hands, no job, and am basically pissed, and SB-2 gives me something to do.

In New Hampshire, with our wacky tax system, one can pay off their mortgage, then lose their job, and then watch as their property tax goes up every year until it is just too much.

A decent paying job is the answer. Having a NH tax system based on one's ability to pay, such as an income tax is also a very good thing.

Each and every one of the individual 616 Meredith voters who went to the polls on Tuesday did it for themself. It was their personal choice. Most times, I believe that people will vote their wallets first & last. They vote what they think is in their best economic interest.

So for me, SB-2 is basically an expression of anger over the Meredith property tax.

Getting 200 residents to sign on to the two SB-2 petitions on presidential primary day was not all that difficult. Getting a job has been impossible!

I think I will just leave it at that and not go into the 7am-7pm, private voting ballot, absentee votes, greater number of voters, and 30 days of thinking about the ballots between deliberative session and election Tuesday.....everyone knows all about the nuts & bolts of the difference in the style of voting between SB-2 and Town Meeting....ad infinitum.

So, will you see me on Tuesday, November 4, on presidential election day, set up outside the community center collecting signatures, again? Hopefully no, because I will be working.

[Seaplane Pilot]

NH Supreme court has ruled that the Macdowell Art Colony in Peterboro is a charitable organization and can retain it's property-tax "exempt" status. Peterboro selectman tried to change this status after 100 or so years, but the Macdowell Colony prevailed in court. I think we should all look into forming charitable organizations at our lake homes and apply for tax exempt status. FLL, are you an artist?? That might be your out!

http://www.macdowellcolony.org/PR-31408.pdf

[fatlazyless]

How about the Appalachian Mountain Club's Three Mile Island on Lake Winnipesaukee, in Meredith, where you can rent a rustic cabin for a week long stay and get community meals in the dining hall? Canoes, rowboats, a waterski boat, a waterfront area, and a performing arts group is part of the Three Mile Island attraction. Is that exempt of Meredith property taxes? How is their use all that different from a homeowner on Pine, Bear or Jolly Island?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by ITD

Less, I think it has more to do with what the article does versus what the selectman want. SB-2 involves changing the form of government which typically requires a super majority. It depends on the town's charter and sometimes state rules, not somebody's whim. I'm sure Skip will provide a better explanation.

ITD, you are correct. It actually takes a 3/5 vote to adopt the provisions of SB-2. This "super" majority is dictated by New Hampshire State law.

The pertinent RSA is rather lengthy, so in order to save Don some bandwidth I'll just provide a link to RSA 40:14 for anyone to review at their own leisure.

Skip