throttle jockeys

upthesaukee · 03-05-2011, 07:28 PM

My wife and I went for a walk this afternoon, and as we headed down Rand Hill Rd in Alton, there is a snowmobile trail that comes up off the lake from about a half mile outside Sandy Point, crosses rte 11 and then Rand Hill Road and continues up the hill to the D trail.

As we approached this crossing on Rand Hill Rd, all we could hear was multiple snowmobiles, and the throttles going Vrooom Vrooom Vrooom on and off the throttle. Turns out there were 4 sleds, who stopped at the Rand Hill Rd crossing and then the first one gunned the engine, crossed the road, and as soon as he was on the other side, gunned the engine repeatedly throwing snow out on the road, almost to the other side. The other three followed in like manner.

When we got to the trail, we looked up the trail and could see the mini moguls they were creating. The Vroom Vroom Vroom continued until they were out of earshot.

Upset the heck out of me, and I don't have a sled. I only wish I was close enough to get a number or two. This type of behavior has to be frustrating to those of you who ride with care or those who maintain trails.

Sorry for the rant, but as one who has snowmobiled in the past, but no longer, I was just frustrated and disappointed in their lack of care of the trail system.

chipj29 · 03-07-2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

My wife and I went for a walk this afternoon, and as we headed down Rand Hill Rd in Alton, there is a snowmobile trail that comes up off the lake from about a half mile outside Sandy Point, crosses rte 11 and then Rand Hill Road and continues up the hill to the D trail.

As we approached this crossing on Rand Hill Rd, all we could hear was multiple snowmobiles, and the throttles going Vrooom Vrooom Vrooom on and off the throttle. Turns out there were 4 sleds, who stopped at the Rand Hill Rd crossing and then the first one gunned the engine, crossed the road, and as soon as he was on the other side, gunned the engine repeatedly throwing snow out on the road, almost to the other side. The other three followed in like manner.

When we got to the trail, we looked up the trail and could see the mini moguls they were creating. The Vroom Vroom Vroom continued until they were out of earshot.

Upset the heck out of me, and I don't have a sled. I only wish I was close enough to get a number or two. This type of behavior has to be frustrating to those of you who ride with care or those who maintain trails.

Sorry for the rant, but as one who has snowmobiled in the past, but no longer, I was just frustrated and disappointed in their lack of care of the trail system.

You are correct, it is very frustrating that some people choose to ride like that. It wreaks havoc on the trails no doubt. I am not sure why they ride like that, other than to hear their sled make noise.

SIKSUKR · 03-07-2011, 10:06 AM

You know that they will be the first ones to complain about trail conditions right?

RLW · 03-07-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

You are correct, it is very frustrating that some people choose to ride like that. It wreaks havoc on the trails no doubt. I am not sure why they ride like that, other than to hear their sled make noise.

I guess they are pretending to be motorcyclists at a stop light.

VitaBene · 03-08-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

You know that they will be the first ones to complain about trail conditions right?

Ding, Ding, Ding, you would be correct sir!!

nhhick · 03-08-2011, 12:29 PM

As a groomer operator and an avid rider its frustrating at time but something you deal with. Theres nothing more erritating than laying out a beautiful trail and have someone come though 10 minutes later and ruin it, but after a day of riding the bump and moguls are to be expected. I would rather see the "idiots," as we "groomers" prefer to them, come out at the end of the day because in a few hours the groomer will come through and fix it and make it nice for the next day. To tell you the truth, I spend more time fixing the corners than anything else. People come in to fast and as soon as they straiten out they are back hard on the thottle. One groomer operator this winter tried taking down one of those berms and it tipped the groom so far the the mirror on the inside of the trail hit a tree that normaly isnt an issue. All said idiot are going to be idiots and the groomers are always going to have work to do as long as there is snow on the trails.

Shreddy · 03-08-2011, 03:17 PM

It's just the way some people ride...you have to accept it, because realistically, they're not breaking the law. Also, some snowmobiles have to be run by blipping the throttle. For Example, if you rebuild your top end, when you're running that premix, you do not want to keep a constant throttle so you can set the pistons and rings in the cylinders. Just saying...

People who don't know how to ride come to a stop and don't know throttle control. When they start to go, some might over accelerate and cause track spin causing a big rut in the trail. It's not just throttle jockeys.

It's all luck of the draw...some people know when the groomer goes out, others don't. I commend groomers for their VOLUNTEERED efforts, but don't tell people how to ride because the way a trail is setup. People knock throttle jockeys for going too fast over a groomed trail. They're probably wondering the same thing about why people go so slow over bumpy trails...

Sorry, I just don't like when some people tell others how to ride. If you want the groomed trails, get out after the groomer, if not, deal with it.

FWIW, I went out this year and made first tracks after it was groomed all the way up to Mt. Shaw. We rode fast, but didn't ruin the trails. I know this because when we came back down, it was the exact same as when we went up. Just my $.02

upthesaukee · 03-08-2011, 04:17 PM

...but these guys I mentioned in Post #1 were all goosing the throttle all the way from Rte 11 to Rand Hill Rd. Came sliding to a stop, and very obviously were trying to throw snow out as they headed up toward the D trail.

They were being disrespectful of the trails, the work that goes into maintenance of trails, and the riding pleasure of others that use that trail.

Right now, there is ample snow cover, but I can see them doing the same thing in minimal snow cover, throwing dirt and snow, and I can see how that could cause a landowner to close his/her property to snowmobiling.

Shreddy, this was not a case of people riding fast. I appreciate what you said about your ride up Mt Shaw. I can also guarantee you that those T. J.'s would not have found the trail to be in the same fine shape on their return.

Enjoy the rest of your riding season.

Irrigation Guy · 03-08-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddy

It's all luck of the draw...some people know when the groomer goes out, others don't. I commend groomers for their VOLUNTEERED efforts, but don't tell people how to ride because the way a trail is setup. People knock throttle jockeys for going too fast over a groomed trail. They're probably wondering the same thing about why people go so slow over bumpy trails...

Sorry, I just don't like when some people tell others how to ride. If you want the groomed trails, get out after the groomer, if not, deal with it.

FWIW, I went out this year and made first tracks after it was groomed all the way up to Mt. Shaw. We rode fast, but didn't ruin the trails. I know this because when we came back down, it was the exact same as when we went up. Just my $.02

Get a clue shreddy....as someone with hundreds of volunteer hours grooming I can tell you that the snow is at it's softest right after being groomed. Going out after they are groomed does the most damage because the snow has not setup(they take several hours to setup after being groomed). That's why we try to go late at night when the trails hopefully won't see any traffic while they are fragile and soft from being freshly groomed.

trfour · 03-08-2011, 11:45 PM

On a groomed snowmobile trail...........

If anyone hasn't learned this by now, and you find that you can not 'Doo an controlled stop and start without doing so, reread your OWNERS manual as you could have a very serious problem...
Taking off, steering, and stopping your snowmobile on hard pack or icy conditions is unpredictable when you don't have the proper traction control. This may include some ( hand eye-brain coordination ). Not necessarily in that order, mind you.

Respect our land owners who in many cases provide most of the scenic snowmobile trails that we all enjoy, and the many volunteers that work so hard to keep them so smooth for all of us!
Terry
____________________________________

Shreddy · 03-09-2011, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

Get a clue shreddy....as someone with hundreds of volunteer hours grooming I can tell you that the snow is at it's softest right after being groomed. Going out after they are groomed does the most damage because the snow has not setup(they take several hours to setup after being groomed). That's why we try to go late at night when the trails hopefully won't see any traffic while they are fragile and soft from being freshly groomed.

Or it could also be because there is far less traffic which poses less of a danger of a groomer coming down the trail. To each their own...keep jabbing

secondcurve · 03-09-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Or it could also be because there is far less traffic which poses less of a danger of a groomer coming down the trail. To each their own...keep jabbing

Shreddy: It's folks like you who limit our access to private land. Please grow up and learn to appreciate the hard work of the volunteers who make it all possible.

Irrigation Guy · 03-09-2011, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Or it could also be because there is far less traffic which poses less of a danger of a groomer coming down the trail. To each their own...keep jabbing

It's not to each their own. It's a fact. Sure it's safer at night but the reality is it's a waste of time and resources to groom and have sleds come along right behind the groomer and ride on it before it's set up.

http://snowmobilers.org/groomer_guid...GuidePart1.pdf

BTW- We are still waiting for you to come help the club instead of just the opposite. You know where to find my number when you're ready.

Irrigation Guy · 03-09-2011, 07:45 AM

In case you don't want to read the link (pages 28 &29):

The last step in the grooming operation allows the moisture that was created during the processing step to refreeze. This binds the individual granules of tightly packed snow firmly together, creating a hard surface that will withstand passing traffic much better.
The length of time needed for a trail to set up correctly can vary from two to six or even more than ten hours, depending upon the temperature and moisture content of the snow. Trail set up can be similar to freezing a tray of ice cubes – after a short time there may be a crust but the cube isn’t entirely solid and it generally takes a few hours for it to become fully firm. A snowmobile trail is no different. Therefore, it is vital that the trail remain as undisturbed as possible during this set up period for firmer, better quality trails that will stand up longer to snowmobiling traffic.

Ideally a snowmobile trail would be closed during set up time, but that isn’t practical. Consequently, the best time to groom is generally at night when traffic levels are typically lower and air temperatures are generally colder. For the best set up, it is strongly recommended that grooming occur at night after snowmobile traffic subsides. This also provides for the safer operation of both groomers and snowmobiles since it is easier to see oncoming lights and beacons.

Most importantly, night grooming provides for more effective grooming since there is typically more time for the trail pavement to freeze solid before traffic resumes, maximizing the effectiveness of the area’s grooming dollars.It is recommended that daytime grooming be done in areas only if there is little or no daytime snowmobile use on the trail being grooming. Other exceptions would include special circumstances such as when daylight would aid operator visibility for initial early season trail set up and establishment or for trail reestablishment of the trail after big storms, extremely heavy snowfalls, and/or significant wind events.
21

Shreddy · 03-09-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Shreddy: It's folks like you who limit our access to private land. Please grow up and learn to appreciate the hard work of the volunteers who make it all possible.

Do you mind telling me how I limit the access to private land? This should be interesting...What exactly do I do to limit the access to private land?

hazelnut · 03-09-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Do you mind telling me how I limit the access to private land? This should be interesting...What exactly do I do to limit the access to private land?

Shreddy, the comment was directed at your perceived attitude and your comments.

secondcurve was assuming that your attitude correlates with those individuals that rip up the trails and subsequently have landowners close those trails because of your comments like this:

"It's just the way some people ride...you have to accept it,"
and this:
" Sorry, I just don't like when some people tell others how to ride. If you want the groomed trails, get out after the groomer, if not, deal with it. "

To be honest with you comments like that make people just as pissed off as you get when you think people are telling you "how to ride." Your attitude reeks of a typical who gives a *bleep* as long as I am having fun i could care less what kind of damage I am causing. The damage caused could be trail closure, that is what secondcurve was referring to.

It is pretty common knowledge that we must tread as light as possible on fresh groomed trails, yet you dismissed that (incorrectly).

No offense shreddy, as I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts in the past, but occasionally you come of with an attitude of "too bad if you don't like it, I'm gonna do it." Sometimes we need to consider how our actions might affect things in the long term/big picture. I'm all for fun and speed and noise, in moderation, when it's not stressing everyone out around me.

Shreddy · 03-09-2011, 08:35 AM

You're right...I didn't intend to come off with that attitude and understand how that can be perceived. No, I do not personally ride like that or in any way attempt to jeopardize the trail systems. I enjoy a groomed trailed just as much as the next person and as I said above, I COMMEND the VOLUNTEER groomers for their efforts. Cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Shreddy, the comment was directed at your perceived attitude and your comments.

secondcurve was assuming that your attitude correlates with those individuals that rip up the trails and subsequently have landowners close those trails because of your comments like this:

"It's just the way some people ride...you have to accept it,"
and this:
" Sorry, I just don't like when some people tell others how to ride. If you want the groomed trails, get out after the groomer, if not, deal with it. "

To be honest with you comments like that make people just as pissed off as you get when you think people are telling you "how to ride." Your attitude reeks of a typical who gives a *bleep* as long as I am having fun i could care less what kind of damage I am causing. The damage caused could be trail closure, that is what secondcurve was referring to.

It is pretty common knowledge that we must tread as light as possible on fresh groomed trails, yet you dismissed that (incorrectly).

No offense shreddy, as I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts in the past, but occasionally you come of with an attitude of "too bad if you don't like it, I'm gonna do it." Sometimes we need to consider how our actions might affect things in the long term/big picture. I'm all for fun and speed and noise, in moderation, when it's not stressing everyone out around me.

secondcurve · 03-09-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreddy

You're right...I didn't intend to come off with that attitude and understand how that can be perceived. No, I do not personally ride like that or in any way attempt to jeopardize the trail systems. I enjoy a groomed trailed just as much as the next person and as I said above, I COMMEND the VOLUNTEER groomers for their efforts. Cheers

Thanks. Not too many folks admit a mistake around here. You're a bigger man/person than most.

VitaBene · 03-09-2011, 09:11 PM

Thanks Eddy. We will get you out for a groomer ride along next winter!

WINNOCTURN · 03-10-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Thanks Eddy. We will get you out for a groomer ride along next winter!

John,

Don't give up now. There still could be some thing left to the season?

VitaBene · 03-11-2011, 07:18 AM

I hear what you are saying George, but my optimism is waning!! I am ready for spring and ice out!

hazelnut · 03-11-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I hear what you are saying George, but my optimism is waning!! I am ready for spring and ice out!

I am ever the optimist and even I am starting to lose hope.

I'm probably going to dust off the trailer and prep for one last ride the weekend of the 19th. Headin northbound.

ishoot308 · 03-11-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I am ever the optimist and even I am starting to lose hope.

I'm probably going to dust off the trailer and prep for one last ride the weekend of the 19th. Headin northbound.

I cancelled my trip to Pittsburg this weekend becuase of the rain and temps in the 40's. With that kind of weather I don't care how much snow they have, they won't be grooming and trails will be real back breakers...too old for that!!

Snowmobiles will be put in mothballs this weekend and now wishing for an early ice out!

Dan

boat_guy64 · 03-12-2011, 02:13 PM

It was a great year for riding. We had a lot of nice days riding in the Lakes region and tried out some new territory for us. We had over 1250 miles and that was with my son playing lacrosse on Sundays (which meant we only rode on Saturdays) We'll make one last trip to Pittsburg and finish off a great season.

03-07-2011, 10:06 AM	#3
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	You know that they will be the first ones to complain about trail conditions right? __________________ SIKSUKR

03-08-2011, 03:17 PM	#7
Shreddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Moultonboro Posts: 509 Thanks: 178 Thanked 212 Times in 114 Posts	It's just the way some people ride...you have to accept it, because realistically, they're not breaking the law. Also, some snowmobiles have to be run by blipping the throttle. For Example, if you rebuild your top end, when you're running that premix, you do not want to keep a constant throttle so you can set the pistons and rings in the cylinders. Just saying... People who don't know how to ride come to a stop and don't know throttle control. When they start to go, some might over accelerate and cause track spin causing a big rut in the trail. It's not just throttle jockeys. It's all luck of the draw...some people know when the groomer goes out, others don't. I commend groomers for their VOLUNTEERED efforts, but don't tell people how to ride because the way a trail is setup. People knock throttle jockeys for going too fast over a groomed trail. They're probably wondering the same thing about why people go so slow over bumpy trails... Sorry, I just don't like when some people tell others how to ride. If you want the groomed trails, get out after the groomer, if not, deal with it. FWIW, I went out this year and made first tracks after it was groomed all the way up to Mt. Shaw. We rode fast, but didn't ruin the trails. I know this because when we came back down, it was the exact same as when we went up. Just my $.02 __________________

03-08-2011, 04:17 PM	#8
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,597 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,454 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	Not telling how to drive... ...but these guys I mentioned in Post #1 were all goosing the throttle all the way from Rte 11 to Rand Hill Rd. Came sliding to a stop, and very obviously were trying to throw snow out as they headed up toward the D trail. They were being disrespectful of the trails, the work that goes into maintenance of trails, and the riding pleasure of others that use that trail. Right now, there is ample snow cover, but I can see them doing the same thing in minimal snow cover, throwing dirt and snow, and I can see how that could cause a landowner to close his/her property to snowmobiling. Shreddy, this was not a case of people riding fast. I appreciate what you said about your ride up Mt Shaw. I can also guarantee you that those T. J.'s would not have found the trail to be in the same fine shape on their return. Enjoy the rest of your riding season. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

03-08-2011, 11:45 PM	#10
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	No Excuse For Spinning Your Track... On a groomed snowmobile trail........... If anyone hasn't learned this by now, and you find that you can not 'Doo an controlled stop and start without doing so, reread your OWNERS manual as you could have a very serious problem... Taking off, steering, and stopping your snowmobile on hard pack or icy conditions is unpredictable when you don't have the proper traction control. This may include some ( hand eye-brain coordination ). Not necessarily in that order, mind you. Respect our land owners who in many cases provide most of the scenic snowmobile trails that we all enjoy, and the many volunteers that work so hard to keep them so smooth for all of us! Terry ____________________________________ __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html

03-12-2011, 02:13 PM	#24
boat_guy64 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Windham and Meredith Posts: 225 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 33 Thanked 89 Times in 42 Posts	One more ride It was a great year for riding. We had a lot of nice days riding in the Lakes region and tried out some new territory for us. We had over 1250 miles and that was with my son playing lacrosse on Sundays (which meant we only rode on Saturdays) We'll make one last trip to Pittsburg and finish off a great season.

03-05-2011, 07:28 PM	#1
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,597 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,454 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	throttle jockeys My wife and I went for a walk this afternoon, and as we headed down Rand Hill Rd in Alton, there is a snowmobile trail that comes up off the lake from about a half mile outside Sandy Point, crosses rte 11 and then Rand Hill Road and continues up the hill to the D trail. As we approached this crossing on Rand Hill Rd, all we could hear was multiple snowmobiles, and the throttles going Vrooom Vrooom Vrooom on and off the throttle. Turns out there were 4 sleds, who stopped at the Rand Hill Rd crossing and then the first one gunned the engine, crossed the road, and as soon as he was on the other side, gunned the engine repeatedly throwing snow out on the road, almost to the other side. The other three followed in like manner. When we got to the trail, we looked up the trail and could see the mini moguls they were creating. The Vroom Vroom Vroom continued until they were out of earshot. Upset the heck out of me, and I don't have a sled. I only wish I was close enough to get a number or two. This type of behavior has to be frustrating to those of you who ride with care or those who maintain trails. Sorry for the rant, but as one who has snowmobiled in the past, but no longer, I was just frustrated and disappointed in their lack of care of the trail system. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

03-08-2011, 12:29 PM	#6
nhhick Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ctr Barnstead/Mirror Lake Posts: 13 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	As a groomer operator and an avid rider its frustrating at time but something you deal with. Theres nothing more erritating than laying out a beautiful trail and have someone come though 10 minutes later and ruin it, but after a day of riding the bump and moguls are to be expected. I would rather see the "idiots," as we "groomers" prefer to them, come out at the end of the day because in a few hours the groomer will come through and fix it and make it nice for the next day. To tell you the truth, I spend more time fixing the corners than anything else. People come in to fast and as soon as they straiten out they are back hard on the thottle. One groomer operator this winter tried taking down one of those berms and it tipped the groom so far the the mirror on the inside of the trail hit a tree that normaly isnt an issue. All said idiot are going to be idiots and the groomers are always going to have work to do as long as there is snow on the trails.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to upthesaukee For This Useful Post:
Shreddy (03-08-2011), trfour (03-08-2011), VitaBene (03-08-2011)

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Irrigation Guy For This Useful Post:
chipj29 (03-09-2011), nshore (03-09-2011), secondcurve (03-09-2011), trfour (03-08-2011)

03-09-2011, 07:45 AM	#14
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	In case you don't want to read the link (pages 28 &29): The last step in the grooming operation allows the moisture that was created during the processing step to refreeze. This binds the individual granules of tightly packed snow firmly together, creating a hard surface that will withstand passing traffic much better. The length of time needed for a trail to set up correctly can vary from two to six or even more than ten hours, depending upon the temperature and moisture content of the snow. Trail set up can be similar to freezing a tray of ice cubes – after a short time there may be a crust but the cube isn’t entirely solid and it generally takes a few hours for it to become fully firm. A snowmobile trail is no different. Therefore, it is vital that the trail remain as undisturbed as possible during this set up period for firmer, better quality trails that will stand up longer to snowmobiling traffic. Ideally a snowmobile trail would be closed during set up time, but that isn’t practical. Consequently, the best time to groom is generally at night when traffic levels are typically lower and air temperatures are generally colder. For the best set up, it is strongly recommended that grooming occur at night after snowmobile traffic subsides. This also provides for the safer operation of both groomers and snowmobiles since it is easier to see oncoming lights and beacons. Most importantly, night grooming provides for more effective grooming since there is typically more time for the trail pavement to freeze solid before traffic resumes, maximizing the effectiveness of the area’s grooming dollars.It is recommended that daytime grooming be done in areas only if there is little or no daytime snowmobile use on the trail being grooming. Other exceptions would include special circumstances such as when daylight would aid operator visibility for initial early season trail set up and establishment or for trail reestablishment of the trail after big storms, extremely heavy snowfalls, and/or significant wind events. 21

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hazelnut For This Useful Post:
Irrigation Guy (03-09-2011), secondcurve (03-09-2011)

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Shreddy For This Useful Post:
hazelnut (03-09-2011), Irrigation Guy (03-09-2011), secondcurve (03-09-2011), upthesaukee (03-09-2011), VitaBene (03-09-2011)

03-09-2011, 09:11 PM	#19
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,576 Thanks: 1,611 Thanked 1,632 Times in 839 Posts	Thanks Eddy. We will get you out for a groomer ride along next winter!

The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
Shreddy (03-10-2011)

03-11-2011, 07:18 AM	#21
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,576 Thanks: 1,611 Thanked 1,632 Times in 839 Posts	I hear what you are saying George, but my optimism is waning!! I am ready for spring and ice out!