Property Tax Prepayment benefit possible for some NH residents

[BrownstoneNorth]

The new tax law will cap combined state & local property & income tax deductions at $10,000 in 2018. The law specifically prohibits taking a deduction this year by prepaying 2018 *income* taxes in 2017 but does not mention *property* taxes.

The state of NH allows prepayment of property taxes, BUT only if your *town* has enabled it. The Tax Collector in Wolfeboro told us on the phone today that Wolfeboro doesn't have a property tax prepayment arrangement with the state, so we're out of luck.

The property tax prepayment option is more relevant for people with second homes in NH and are likely to itemize deductions than for year-rounders who pay no income tax and property tax on only one home. Worth checking with your town and/or accountant if you've got one before it's too late if your property + income taxes exceed $10,000.

Here's one article about the NH situation, there are probably others:

http://www.vnews.com/Local-Property-...tions-14362856

[fatlazyless]

The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......

New Jersey has always limited property tax deductions.


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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......

I am recommending this strategy for many clients however if you have been subject to AMT in previous years it will more than likely not be a good idea to prepay as it will probably not be deductible.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

You mean the fake “news”?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.

You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.

[Biggd]

I can see where this thread is going, and it isn't good!

[tummyman]

THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !

[Major]

Originally Posted by tummyman

THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !

Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.

That is extremely sound advice and exactly what I am telling my clients in similar situations to yours

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by PeterG

You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.

I am sorry you disagree with me. I have been a CPA for 30 years and I can go back and forth with you all day on this subject but I have clients to see today so we can agree to disagree and everyone can move on their "Merry" way.

[Major]

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

That must be "fake" news.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

That must be "fake" news.

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

Just teasing. I get a kick out of everyone that uses the "fake news" moniker to support their own views, because what they support is supposedly "real news". Trump coined the phrase but most of what comes from his mouth and his tweets is questionable at best.

[MAXUM]

Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....

Yay! After reaping billions of dollars, they're giving back thousands to the people who made them billions. So very nice of them! (Oh, and most of those companies are somewhere in the 8-10% effective tax rate and have either laid off many people (AT&T) or punished workers for executive actions (Wells Fargo).

Oh, and many, like AT&T and Boeing, are doing it to get in Trump's good graces, NOT because it's the right thing to do. They could've done it all along.

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.

Yes! I had the percentage wrong. 89%!

[Cobalt 25]

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.



Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

Very well stated Major. If businesses big and small are not successful our economy will collapse inflation with rise and there will be no money to fund Services.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

The libs don’t want private entities to succeed; rather, they want government to succeed so they are the ones with control. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that this tax cut will help everyone, either directly or indirectly. And for that matter, it won’t be a pig-in-a-poke as was that fraud Obamacare program.

[Cobalt 25]

"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.

Now this is fake news!


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.

[Major]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.

Understood. However, I find it funny that when Obamacare was introduced, Democrats proudly announced that each family will save $2,500 on health insurance, like $2,500 was a lot of money. (For the record, I think $2,500 is significant. Also, I will refrain from commenting on the financial effect of Obamacare on health insurance.) Now, the $2000 or so tax break the present tax reform will afford each family is being called "modest." Also, for years conservatives (not Republicans) have been concerned about the national debt, with no word from Democrats. Now, all of a sudden, Democrats are frantic about the debt.

Although I pay MA state taxes, I agree with the Republican approach to punish blue states. Government can succeed with less taxes, and maybe those states should consider eliminating state income taxes, which I think is the goal.

As stated above, the issue is spending, not revenue. Government (U.S. and state) severely needs to be pared back. We have a spending problem.

[Biggd]

It may be a tax loophole for residents but it would be a tax winfall for the state. The state gets to invest that money all year and collect interest and dividends.

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[Rusty]

IMHO anyone who has a property tax bill of $10,000 or more probably don't give this new tax change much thought. Especially when they can afford to pay that much on a vacation home.

Remember everyone, I said IMHO.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

IMHO anyone who has a property tax bill of $10,000 or more probably don't give this new tax change much thought. Especially when they can afford to pay that much on a vacation home.

Remember everyone, I said IMHO.

I would respectfully disagree. People who have made good decisions all of their life that enable them to afford a property with a tax bill in excess of $10,000 probably give their financial decisions a lot of thought. Unless, by accident of birth these people were very fortunate, I think a lot of thought, calculation, and financial planning goes into every major decision.

IMHO

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I would respectfully disagree. People who have made good decisions all of their life that enable them to afford a property with a tax bill in excess of $10,000 probably give their financial decisions a lot of thought. Unless, by accident of birth these people were very fortunate, I think a lot of thought, calculation, and financial planning goes into every major decision.

IMHO

You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.

Well said. Many do don’t understand the trials, stress sacrifice and pressure that it can take to attain financial independence. Also just First generations but if I seen it in second and third when previous generations do not guard their assets well. To be bitter of those that sacrificed reached a certain level of wealth is simple arrogance and jealousy.


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[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.

If I may...
I am far from rich, I made poor (hindsight they were stupid) financial decisions in my younger days. I have failed on several occasions. I have needed a hand to get back on my feet. I am thankful that today, I am in a position to help those that helped me. We were not all brought into this world with a Silver Spoon.

[Biggd]

Not all rich people are created equal. Not all got their money from working hard.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Not all rich people are created equal. Not all got their money from working hard.

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There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.

There's a sizeable difference between "inheritance" and "starter loans/parental help," etc. There is also a sizeable continuum for "earned" success, however, given the nature of one's birth lottery.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

There's a sizeable difference between "inheritance" and "starter loans/parental help," etc. There is also a sizeable continuum for "earned" success, however, given the nature of one's birth lottery.

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"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!

Wow, you are so far out of touch.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Wow, you are so far out of touch.

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I'm confused. How so?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Major

I'm confused. How so?

To begin with, your anecdotal evidence. My father also has an 8th grade education and worked 40 years in maintenance/machining. With that job, and my mother's at a grocery store, I was able to attend college. That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years, and mom's pay would've barely increased in the last ten.

Also, to think that success or failure in this country is purely a matter of making the right decisions throws sand in the face of, I dunno, everything we know through sociology and psychology.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years.

As the great Si Robertson said, we'll have to disagree to disagree.

I personally know the owners of two local machine shops, and a college degree is NOT required. If you're smart, and show promise, the owners of these shops are willing to give you a chance. It is hard to find good machinists.

Also, I don't place much stock in sociology or psychology.

[wadeja]

I stopped by the Moultonborough Town Hall today and learned they will accept up to 2 years prepayment for property taxes based on this years tax bill.

[MDoug]

Anyone know if Meredith accepts prepayment?

[Slickcraft]

NH 5% dividends and interest tax (yes NH does have an income tax).

For those that have to pay the tax, the final estimated tax payment for 2017 is due 1/16/2018. I see no reason why it can't be paid this calendar year.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

To begin with, your anecdotal evidence. My father also has an 8th grade education and worked 40 years in maintenance/machining. With that job, and my mother's at a grocery store, I was able to attend college. That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years, and mom's pay would've barely increased in the last ten.

Also, to think that success or failure in this country is purely a matter of making the right decisions throws sand in the face of, I dunno, everything we know through sociology and psychology.

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Knowing things through "sociology and psychology" is what is wrong with the thought process. How about real life. I agree with Major, anyone who wants to make it and be successful can. The only exceptions are people who have limited ability due to diminished physical or mental capacity.

There are too many people who expect the world to be handed to them. WalMart is hiring first year truck drivers and starting them at $80,000 per year. If you take that job and live a $40,000 per year lifestyle you can save a lot of money and buy some investment property. Or, you can get tattoos, smoke cigarettes, and hang with your friends and use drugs. Maybe you can even have a pregnant girlfriend too. Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful if they make good choices.

I have a friend who is a school teacher and for many years he expressed jealousy when I bought a house or a new car or a new boat. When I suggested that he get a full time job he didn't even know what I was talking about. That tells you all you need to know.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Knowing things through "sociology and psychology" is what is wrong with the thought process. How about real life. I agree with Major, anyone who wants to make it and be successful can. The only exceptions are people who have limited ability due to diminished physical or mental capacity.

There are too many people who expect the world to be handed to them. WalMart is hiring first year truck drivers and starting them at $80,000 per year. If you take that job and live a $40,000 per year lifestyle you can save a lot of money and buy some investment property. Or, you can get tattoos, smoke cigarettes, and hang with your friends and use drugs. Maybe you can even have a pregnant girlfriend too. Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful if they make good choices.

I have a friend who is a school teacher and for many years he expressed jealousy when I bought a house or a new car or a new boat. When I suggested that he get a full time job he didn't even know what I was talking about. That tells you all you need to know.

You're both right--everyone has the same exact chances at success. Those people who fail are all just choosing to. Brilliant.

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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

You're both right--everyone has the same exact chances at success. Those people who fail are all just choosing to. Brilliant.

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Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.

My first job after high school? A gas station, pumping gas. My next job: a different gas station 1 mile down the road. But I had goals and wanted a boat. I even dreamed about a house on Winnipesaukee some day. Starting in 1970 I would cruise the lake in my boat and admire the waterfront homes, wondering how I could ever get there. I had no family there and no property (or money) to inherit.

No one ever gave me 5 cents but I figured out a path to have a boat (and many more) and eventually buy a waterfront home on the lake. I worked a lot of hours, sometimes at three different jobs, trying to get ahead. I am not special, gifted, or lucky, I just decided it was worth the the effort to do the work to get there. And I did. After 14 years on the lake I still get up every morning that I am there and look out at the lake and smile. I am very grateful to have a home there.

I believe that at a young age everyone has the same opportunity. It is the decisions that follow that determine where and how far they will go.

[Major]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.



My first job after high school? A gas station, pumping gas. My next job: a different gas station 1 mile down the road. But I had goals and wanted a boat. I even dreamed about a house on Winnipesaukee some day. Starting in 1970 I would cruise the lake in my boat and admire the waterfront homes, wondering how I could ever get there. I had no family there and no property (or money) to inherit.



No one ever gave me 5 cents but I figured out a path to have a boat (and many more) and eventually buy a waterfront home on the lake. I worked a lot of hours, sometimes at three different jobs, trying to get ahead. I am not special, gifted, or lucky, I just decided it was worth the the effort to do the work to get there. And I did. After 14 years on the lake I still get up every morning that I am there and look out at the lake and smile. I am very grateful to have a home there.



I believe that at a young age everyone has the same opportunity. It is the decisions that follow that determine where and how far they will go.

I am grateful that I didn’t have Thinking as a parent. I would not have pushed myself and worked hard to achieve any level of success. What’s the point, the little guy can’t get ahead, right? There’s no point in trying to be a little smarter, work a little harder, do things outside your comfort zone. The deck is stacked against us.


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[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Major

I am grateful that I didn’t have Thinking as a parent. I would not have pushed myself and worked hard to achieve any level of success. What’s the point, the little guy can’t get ahead, right? There’s no point in trying to be a little smarter, work a little harder, do things outside your comfort zone. The deck is stacked against us.


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Kind of a low blow, don't you think?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Kind of a low blow, don't you think?

Fair point, but I’m not the one saying that it’s nearly impossible to get ahead, and if you do, it is because of some type of privilege. I’ve seen too many people who came from nothing achieve tremendous success. I believe in making something of oneself.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Kind of a low blow, don't you think?

No worries. Major was born in the forest and all his success is his own doing. No one, and no institution, had any influence on him. He's a pull-yourself-up-by-the-not-given-to-him-boot-straps kinda guy.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

No worries. Major was born in the forest and all his success is his own doing. No one, and no institution, had any influence on him. He's a pull-yourself-up-by-the-not-given-to-him-boot-straps kinda guy.

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No, but I was born to Forrest. The one advantage I had was great parents, but I had to do a lot on my own. I was the one who saw an advertisement in the paper for a day student scholarship at New Hampton School. Yes, my mom drove me there to take the test, but I took the test and won the scholarship. My parents never applied to college, so I was the one who investigated and applied to colleges. I was the one who investigated and applied for an Army ROTC scholarship so that I could go to WPI instead of UNH. No one guided me through the process. Same thing with law school, which my wife and I cash flowed.

We had moral support from my parents, but you are correct in that I did most of it on my own.


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[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Major

We had moral support from my parents, but you are correct in that I did most of it on my own.


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So, yeah....

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.

Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money.

Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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[Rusty]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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You have a good head on your shoulders and I agree with your well written reasons that explain what it takes for MOST people to succeed in life.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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What a bunch of psychobabble crap! With all due respect..... thank GOD I didn't go to college or listen to people like you.

I guess I'm a unicorn then right? Believe it or not I managed to do the following having nothing but a high school diploma:

1. Move out on my own at 18 years old with nothing but what I had on my back
2. Learned to live on 75% of my income from day one, put the rest away for a rainy day - NEVER WENT INTO DEBT!!!! Paid cash for everything, if I didn't have cash to buy it I would wait to buy. Only in an emergency would I tap into savings to buy what was absolutely needed.
3. Got married in my mid 20's and shockingly my wife and I built a brand new house in lieu of a fancy wedding (yes a coherent choice we made)
4. Two years after we go married wife quit her job so she could stay home and take care of the kid - from there on out we've lived on a single income

5. Worked my ass off till I could break into the career I have now, that was done by brute force hard work. Nothing was handed to me, I made that happen.
6. Have two properties (one on the lake) and still no debt.
7. Mange my own portfolio and well on my way to retiring early.

What I have NOT done

1. lease a car or buy new cars
2. go on vacations
3. use my property as a cash register
4. pay anyone to do anything for with very few exceptions
5. go out to dinner or out on the town regularly
6. keep up with the jones'

Now how exactly does one accomplish this? Easy, work hard and every decision is all about weighing the pros and cons. It's common sense! If I didn't know I sought out somebody who could advise me. Have I made bad decisions, sure but not many and I'd classify those as taking a known risk that had limited down side should it not pan out which some did not. Am I lucky, I will simply and smugly say no, because every decision was well thought out and no I didn't need to be handheld the entire way to make this happen. But I will say that along my journey there have been plenty who thought what I was doing was crazy.... opinion vary!

[Biggd]

This thread had turned into a forum for people to pat themselves on the back.

Someone made a comment earlier about a school teacher not being able to get ahead because they had, what he considered, a part time job. While I agree it's not a job you're going to get rich at, it's a selfless job that deserves more of our respect.
Not everyone puts a dollar value on success.
It's true that choices you make help to determine the outcome of your future but some people have more road blocks to over come with no one to help them through the tough times.
Great family and friends will make your rich beyond the money.
All of us here have a passion for the NH lakes region but that's not everyones dream.
We go through life with the desire to make more money and buy more things. When we are gone no one will give a rats ass how much money you made. They will divide it all up and move on. Sad but true.
Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a happy and prosperous one for all my forum friends.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.
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I grew up in a family of 7 with one car that my parents shared. On the days my mother had the car my father took the bus to work. There was no extra money. My mother even mixed powdered milk in with the regular milk to make it go farther because the grocery budget was a little tight.

How did I get my first job? Not sure how far back to go. Had a morning paper route delivering newspapers before I went to public schools. Worked at the Dairy Queen during high school. First full time job? I walked a mile to the gas station and asked if they needed any help. Fill out paperwork? I guess I learned enough in school to read and write the English language. I saved enough to buy a Buick Special for $250 so I could drive to work.

Who helped me get my license? I paid for Driver Education with my own money and even paid to use their car for the test. When I was 21, I sold my car and used the money to buy a truck tractor, took lessons and got Commercial Drivers License and hauled other people's trailers for mileage pay.

No one taught me I could succeed with hard work. I looked around me and saw what might work and did it. From my 20's though about age 50 I worked 3 jobs, averaging about 80 hours per week.

Who taught me how to keep a checkbook? It isn't rocket science to keep a checkbook but I admit I now use QuickBooks to manage the finances of my commercial and residential investment properties. I guess you would say I have help. I did figure out how QuickBooks works on my own.

In these times of safe spaces and participation trophies many young people have neither the desire nor the will to be very successful. I have friends who are proud that their child is getting a degree in Ancient European History. Uhhh....OK. Good luck with that!

[tbonies]

WOW! 28 I/me/my's! Exactly the biggest issue in this country today!

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I grew up in a family of 7 with one car that my parents shared. On the days my mother had the car my father took the bus to work. There was no extra money. My mother even mixed powdered milk in with the regular milk to make it go farther because the grocery budget was a little tight.

How did I get my first job? Not sure how far back to go. Had a morning paper route delivering newspapers before I went to public schools. Worked at the Dairy Queen during high school. First full time job? I walked a mile to the gas station and asked if they needed any help. Fill out paperwork? I guess I learned enough in school to read and write the English language. I saved enough to buy a Buick Special for $250 so I could drive to work.

Who helped me get my license? I paid for Driver Education with my own money and even paid to use their car for the test. When I was 21, I sold my car and used the money to buy a truck tractor, took lessons and got Commercial Drivers License and hauled other people's trailers for mileage pay.

No one taught me I could succeed with hard work. I looked around me and saw what might work and did it. From my 20's though about age 50 I worked 3 jobs, averaging about 80 hours per week.

Who taught me how to keep a checkbook? It isn't rocket science to keep a checkbook but I admit I now use QuickBooks to manage the finances of my commercial and residential investment properties. I guess you would say I have help. I did figure out how QuickBooks works on my own.

In these times of safe spaces and participation trophies many young people have neither the desire nor the will to be very successful. I have friends who are proud that their child is getting a degree in Ancient European History. Uhhh....OK. Good luck with that!

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks to this thread I now have members that I truly look at from a different perspective, both higher and lower. Seems obvious to me which ones fit in which category. You guys rock!.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!

You are spot on, Major. The entitlement generation cannot understand the concept of the risk and hard work necessary to succeed. Sad, in my opinion.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You are spot on, Major. The entitlement generation cannot understand the concept of the risk and hard work necessary to succeed. Sad, in my opinion.

I get so frustrated when I hear that you just can't get ahead unless . . . . All of us have obstacles to overcome. Nothing good comes easy. I wish everyone understood that.

[TriDad]

Getting back to the original topic... Gilford allows for up to 2 yrs prepayment of property taxes based on your 2017 amount. Depending on your situation, AMT may offset the benefit of doing so.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.

I don't consider a million dollar neg worth rich today unless you are in your 20's.

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[ITD]

Just remember, you didn't build that. All things good come from the large burdensome government you must support. .......


Major, you are absolutely correct.

Decisions have consequences, if your life sucks, look inward not outward for the reason. It is absolutely still possible to get ahead in this world, but your choices have a lot to do with it. And remember, there is always someone bigger, better, smarter, younger, older, better off, worse off, you name it. Envy sucks and can ruin your life. Figure out what you have, and put it to use. Live within your means and strive to better yourself. To the people who tell you that you can't because the deck is stacked against you.... tell them to screw, they are just looking for company at the bottom.

[Major]

Originally Posted by ITD

Just remember, you didn't build that. All things good come from the large burdensome government you must support. .......


Major, you are absolutely correct.

Decisions have consequences, if your life sucks, look inward not outward for the reason. It is absolutely still possible to get ahead in this world, but your choices have a lot to do with it. And remember, there is always someone bigger, better, smarter, younger, older, better off, worse off, you name it. Envy sucks and can ruin your life. Figure out what you have, and put it to use. Live within your means and strive to better yourself. To the people who tell you that you can't because the deck is stacked against you.... tell them to screw, they are just looking for company at the bottom.

Amen, brother.

[Biggd]

I think we are confusing rich with making a good living. A million dollars net worth today is not my definition of rich uless you're in your 20's. Then you are well on your way. I would consider upwards of 10 million net worth as being rich today.

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[HellRaZoR004]

I’m shocked why some towns don’t accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

I’m shocked why some towns don’t accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?

I think everybody is still trying to figure this out--before last week, what dope would ever dream of prepaying?

Humble advice--if your town says no, ask again politely a day or two later. Or, just mail them a check with a note and keep your fingers crossed. (Worst case, they mail the check back.)

[BrownstoneNorth]

Originally Posted by PeterG

I think everybody is still trying to figure this out--before last week, what dope would ever dream of prepaying?

Humble advice--if your town says no, ask again politely a day or two later. Or, just mail them a check with a note and keep your fingers crossed. (Worst case, they mail the check back.)

Thanks, Peter, but the Wolfeboro Tax Collector confirmed that nothing doing for Wolfeboro because the relevant provision in the new tax law wasn't anticipated. It was good advice to check again, though, because many other jurisdictions around the country — state, country, or town, whichever is/are applicable — have scrambled to take the steps necessary to enable property tax prepayment; in some cases, including my primary residence state, officials who were out of town came home for special sessions to do this.

I don't know if there would have been enough time for the State of NH to process a request from Wolfeboro to make the arrangement but, since the Tax Collector didn't mention that any effort had been made or looked into, I got the impression that the Wolfeboro selectmen couldn't even be bothered to try.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BrownstoneNorth

Thanks, Peter, but the Wolfeboro Tax Collector confirmed that nothing doing for Wolfeboro because the relevant provision in the new tax law wasn't anticipated. It was good advice to check again, though, because many other jurisdictions around the country — state, country, or town, whichever is/are applicable — have scrambled to take the steps necessary to enable property tax prepayment; in some cases, including my primary residence state, officials who were out of town came home for special sessions to do this.

I don't know if there would have been enough time for the State of NH to process a request from Wolfeboro to make the arrangement but, since the Tax Collector didn't mention that any effort had been made or looked into, I got the impression that the Wolfeboro selectmen couldn't even be bothered to try.

The rich in Wolfeboro will just have to work harder to make-up the difference.
Nobody ever helped them get rich, they just did it on their own and they don't want it now.
RIGHT??????

[FlyingScot]

Hot off the presses--here's an article that highlights the volatility of the situation. Unfortunately, it seems to make clear that for many this will be more difficult than expected just hours ago.

Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4e15b1b8fdaf

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Hot off the presses--here's an article that highlights the volatility of the situation. Unfortunately, it seems to make clear that for many this will be more difficult than expected just hours ago.



Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4e15b1b8fdaf

Wow, that certainly complicates things. Thanks for sharing. So much for that.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a December 27, 2017 advisory from the Internal Revenue Service concerning prepayment and deductability:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-adv...d-paid-in-2017

Excuse me while I inject a wee bit of political humor here......hmmmm......hmmmm......my my my .... and hmmm .... is time for some serious reading comprehension here ..... .... "like who knew that redoing taxes could be so complicated .... duh?" ....... just who is that little, puffy, orange emoticon?

For a totally super-duper newspaper report on this IRS advisory, google this: New York Times, Dec 27, 2017: 'I.R.S. Warns That Prepaying Property Taxes Is a Risk' by Ben Casselman.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's a December 27, 2017 advisory from the Internal Revenue Service concerning prepayment and deductibility ...

Seems pretty clear from the IRS. If the town hasn't given you a tax assessment/bill, any taxes paid ahead without it will fall under the new deductibility limits. If you have the bill in hand and pay by the end of 2017, they will be.

Center Harbor was late getting their tax bills out this year. They aren't "due" until into January 2018. Waiting to pay them until then, for some, might be a bad idea. Just today and tomorrow to pay?

However, since towns don't ASSESS taxes into the future, you can't get around the new federal tax SALT deduction reductions by paying to-be-assessed 2018 taxes ahead of time.

[fatlazyless]

Center Harbor was late getting their tax bills out this year. They aren't "due" until into January 2018. Waiting to pay them until then, for some[, might be a bad idea. ]Just today and tomorrow to pay ?

So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?

Obviously, I voted for Hillary, but with my property taxes below the $10,000, the movement announcement for U.S.A. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and deporting the ms-13's ......maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?

When you say "That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment" you seem to be implying that is unreasonable? Normally taxes would be due before the end of December so reasonable people SHOULD have the money set aside already. However, I will bet a lot of people don't know they should have their payment in by Friday. For many of us it won't matter since we either use the standard deduction or have less than $10,000 in SALT taxes to deduct.

However, however, if you don't make your payment until 2018 and it gets added to the normal June and December 2018 payments, now the total of the 3 payments MIGHT exceed $10,000 and cost you in deductions.

When tax law changes like this, some people get caught in the transition.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?

Obviously, I voted for Hillary, but with my property taxes below the $10,000, the movement announcement for U.S.A. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and deporting the ms-13's ......maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff

You voted for Hillary, what a shocker!

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Biggd

You voted for Hillary, what a shocker!

Yeah... but I think maybe he might be ready to join the Trump train! How about it FLL? I have to admit, he is an entertaining president to watch and listen to...kinda like Ol FLL Himself!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Yeah... but I think maybe he might be ready to join the Trump train! How about it FLL? I have to admit, he is an entertaining president to watch and listen to...kinda like Ol FLL Himself!

Trump's been good for my retirement account but on a personal level I think he's an A$$. We got to take the good with the bad, and there's a lot of both with him.

[ishoot308]

Just found out that Gilford is allowing 2 years of prepayments on your property tax...

Dan

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Just found out that Gilford is allowing 2 years of prepayments on your property tax...

Dan

I'm sure the IRS won't allow that second year. They already said you had to have an assessment in hand. Is Gilford going to issue an assessment beyond next year? Be prepared to be audited if you try to take it.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm sure the IRS won't allow that second year. They already said you had to have an assessment in hand. Is Gilford going to issue an assessment beyond next year? Be prepared to be audited if you try to take it.

If the town allows it I don't see how it can be an issue. If an assessment happens they will simply bill or credit (yeah right) me the amount of the revised assessment. They can audit me as I don't do anything illegal or underhanded....

Edited to add: right after I posted this my accountant called and recommended I only prepay 1 year. Something about an update the IRS just put out about property tax prepayment.

Dan

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

.maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff

You might get a chance to "liking" the orange man, but you won't get a chance to ever vote for him and you can thank Robert Mueller for that.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You might get a chance to "liking" the orange man, but you won't get a chance to ever vote for him and you can thank Robert Mueller for that.

This won't happen if Republicans retain the House and the Senate. Republicans hold a strong edge in the House (239 to 193). Of the 34 seats up in the Senate for 2018, 26 are held by democrats, and there's a strong chance that Republicans will gain some seats.

For those of us who love Trump and what he's doing, this is encouraging.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You might get a chance to "liking" the orange man, but you won't get a chance to ever vote for him and you can thank Robert Mueller for that.

Says who?? The way things are going, Meuller will be shut down...after a year of investigation and nothing to show for it despite spending millions, it’s nothing but a dem witch hunt....Meuller had his little ducks in a row drooling to bring down the President...how has that worked out??

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Says who?? The way things are going, Meuller will be shut down...after a year of investigation and nothing to show for it despite spending millions, it’s nothing but a dem witch hunt....Meuller had his little ducks in a row drooling to bring down the President...how has that worked out??

Love the know it alls. The independent investigator is a high integrity guy. Let’s see how it plays out. I think he’s spent about 4 minutes of interest accumulation on the national debt. Let’s stop with the faux outrage.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:

Would you be referring to ObamaCare? On second thought, I doubt it because ObamaCare punished just about everyone and rewarded no one that actually has to PAY for healthcare.

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

I’m shocked why some towns don’t accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?

There are a few reasons.

The selectmen or the town meeting must vote to allow it. So, if you haven't done that at this late date, there's really no time.

If it were to be approved tomorrow, the town would need to set up a separate acct as those 2018 funds cannot go into the 2017 general fund.

RSA 80:52-a is a good place to start.

To add to the pissing contest already in progress.

1. Death should not be a taxable event. Period.

2. The leftists fear mongering over what happens in 2027 when these tax breaks for the middle class are supposed to expire is just that. No future congress is going to raise taxes on the middle class by letting them expire. Even Obama made all of Bush's tax cuts permanent. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. I'm betting that no one is going to go to the third rail on this.

3. We've had the highest corporate tax rates in the world. It's about time they were brought back to the middle of the pack.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a noteworthy tax factoid; supposedly, the state and local tax payment deductions have been in use since 1913, when the federal income tax was enacted.

Will go look for more info on this, plus a link to a believable source;

https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-...uction-primer/

and, the federal income tax comes from the 16th Amendment to the U S Constitution which was ratified on Feb 3, 1913;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...s_Constitution so it would seem this new $10,000 limit is a big,

historical tax happening ... like, totally HUGE.
...................

Attention: There must be some who voted enthusiastically for Donald Trump who are now not so enthusiastic with regard to this $10,000-limit of deductibility because it seems to be changing the rules half way through the ball game (sounds like something Ronald Reagan would say).

'Too Much House-2018' ...... what you have if your prop taxes exceed $10,000, starting in 2018 ..... ka-ching!

[Biggd]

You wish, I doubt it will change the buying habits of the top 1% one bit.

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[Garcia]

What people forget about the Reagan tax cuts are two fold. First, they did not generate the increased revenue hoped for and deficits grew (and yes, I know that spending is an issue in and of itself, but it is worth noting that politicians and the people who put them into office do not have the stomach to seriously cut spending, but that is a different conversation). Second, by the time his presidency was over he had increased taxes through broadening the tax base and closing so called loopholes. Economists on both sides of the aisle, if you want to believe them, support this.

The bigger issue for me is the deficit these tax cuts bring. They will ultimately do more harm than good because deficits matter - and not only do the tax cuts not pay for themselves, they significantly add to the deficit. We can argue the point, as can politicians, but the problem won’t become apparent to the masses for years - at which point those in office will come up with another short-term, feel good fix and kick the can down the road yet again. What’s the answer? I don’t know. I will benefit from the new tax cuts, but I fear the long term effect on the country.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Biggd

You wish, I doubt it will change the buying habits of the top 1% one bit.

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There is an important distinction to make here, it's belongs to them and what they do with it, spend it or not is up to them not you, me or the federal government! However this does beg the question, if they don't spend it what do they do with it that is so harmful? After all they are either saving it or more likely investing it. Where is the down side to that? In fact whether saved or invested they will be taxed on gains anyways.

What fuels the economy isn't all about retail sales!

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There is an important distinction to make here, it's belongs to them and what they do with it, spend it or not is up to them not you, me or the federal government! However this does beg the question, if they don't spend it what do they do with it that is so harmful? After all they are either saving it or more likely investing it. Where is the down side to that? In fact whether saved or invested they will be taxed on gains anyways.

What fuels the economy isn't all about retail sales!

No, no. I am sure Bill Gates has all his money stuffed into mattresses in his huge house so it does no good to the economy. /s

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by jeffk

No, no. I am sure Bill Gates has all his money stuffed into mattresses in his huge house so it does no good to the economy. /s

Actually, a huge portion of Gates' money is invested in education because he understands that not everyone is born with the same opportunities.

"Limited opportunity for too many young people results in dramatically lower life prospects for them and a worse quality of life for all of us." --Gates Foundation

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[jeffk]

He can use HIS money however he wishes. Money, BTW, that was generated from business activity and will probably increase as the economy grows. He can then give that new money away if he wishes to.

The key word is INVESTED. People are hired, buildings are rented or built, computers and supplies are ordered, other products are purchased, they pay electric, water and sewerage bills, and building maintenance. People working on the project travel, stay at hotels, go to restaurants to eat. The workers spin off their own economic activity; paying taxes, buying houses, cars, boats, some living the lives of the "5%". The ultimate outcome of Gate's intent, if successful, is people who are smart enough to work at yet other businesses and pay their taxes, housing costs, etc. from their earnings.

In short, even though the purpose of his education efforts may be "charitable", it carries out business activities to achieve them. Further, every dollar invested, if you follow it back to its source, comes FROM a business activity. The outcome is people prepared to WORK in society, some for Gate's companies.

COMMERCE undergirds EVERYTHING.

The raw goal of commerce is to make more money. That money is used to fuel the innumerable and dynamic goals of the billions of people on the planet. No money, the goals suffer and even fail, even to the levels of individual starvation. Unchained commerce yields more money for all purposes, even for those who want to invest it in education.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There is an important distinction to make here, it's belongs to them and what they do with it, spend it or not is up to them not you, me or the federal government! However this does beg the question, if they don't spend it what do they do with it that is so harmful? After all they are either saving it or more likely investing it. Where is the down side to that? In fact whether saved or invested they will be taxed on gains anyways.

What fuels the economy isn't all about retail sales!

Maxum--an excellent question and a great point. I agree that it's all about retail sales.

As BiggD points out, the rich save much more than others as a percent of income. There's plenty of data on this, and it all points in the same direction.
As you can see in the link below, the middle quintile saves 11% of their income and the top 1% saves 51% of their income. So if a trillion dollar tax cut goes to the middle class, $890 billion gets spent, driving retail sales. But if we give a trillion dollar break to the top 1%, only $490 billion gets spent retail. So the best way to drive retail is to give the tax break to those still struggling financially.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart...e-level-2013-3

[ITD]

Yes, yes, I think I see now, the rich steal all the poor people's money, that's how they get rich, makes perfect sense.