Property Tax Prepayment benefit possible for some NH residents

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

You mean the fake “news”?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by PeterG

If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.

As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.

You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.

[Biggd]

I can see where this thread is going, and it isn't good!

[tummyman]

THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !

[Major]

Originally Posted by tummyman

THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !

Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.

That is extremely sound advice and exactly what I am telling my clients in similar situations to yours

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by PeterG

You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.

I am sorry you disagree with me. I have been a CPA for 30 years and I can go back and forth with you all day on this subject but I have clients to see today so we can agree to disagree and everyone can move on their "Merry" way.

[Major]

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

That must be "fake" news.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

That must be "fake" news.

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

Just teasing. I get a kick out of everyone that uses the "fake news" moniker to support their own views, because what they support is supposedly "real news". Trump coined the phrase but most of what comes from his mouth and his tweets is questionable at best.

[MAXUM]

Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....

Yay! After reaping billions of dollars, they're giving back thousands to the people who made them billions. So very nice of them! (Oh, and most of those companies are somewhere in the 8-10% effective tax rate and have either laid off many people (AT&T) or punished workers for executive actions (Wells Fargo).

Oh, and many, like AT&T and Boeing, are doing it to get in Trump's good graces, NOT because it's the right thing to do. They could've done it all along.

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!

You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.

Yes! I had the percentage wrong. 89%!

[Cobalt 25]

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.



Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

Very well stated Major. If businesses big and small are not successful our economy will collapse inflation with rise and there will be no money to fund Services.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.

The libs don’t want private entities to succeed; rather, they want government to succeed so they are the ones with control. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that this tax cut will help everyone, either directly or indirectly. And for that matter, it won’t be a pig-in-a-poke as was that fraud Obamacare program.

[Cobalt 25]

"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.

Now this is fake news!


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[garysanfran]

"The rich don't pay any taxes because they have all these loopholes and deductions"...

I've heard this for decades. Now those "rich" people, who pay no taxes, are getting this big tax break?

Please endorse greater education.

[BroadHopper]

Seems like everyone is counting the chickens before they hatch! As a retired CPA/CMA with 50 years experience, I will chime in when the tax laws hit the books and the changes have hit the IRS website.

I have seen it many times rules and regulations change at the discretion of the IRS after the laws are written. So calm down everyone and let it play out!

Every state interpret their own laws in regard to federal rulings differently. And constituents generally contest the difference in the few years after passing. So let it iron out!

The experience I have/had is mind blowing!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

"The rich don't pay any taxes because they have all these loopholes and deductions"...

I've heard this for decades. Now those "rich" people, who pay no taxes, are getting this big tax break?

Please endorse greater education.

OK so to show the utter incompetence behind this argument...

1. The rich do not pay taxes because they are using all these loopholes and deductions.

2. Now these rich people who pay no taxes are getting a big tax break.


So I sit here and scratch my head and say hey wait a minute if you're not paying taxes in the first place how can you get a big tax break????

Who are you saying needs an education? Your idea of math doesn't add up

[fatlazyless]

Live free or die - New Hampshire!

Hooray for high property taxes ...... with this new federal, Make America Great Again, 10k max ..... you now have too much house(s) if you is paying more than 10k/yr in property tax!

Hooray for New Hampshire: no state capital gains tax, no state income tax, 5% dividend & interest tax (first $2400/yr exempt, $4800 for joint filers), and no miserable 5-cent soft drink, bottle deposits.

If people want to go waste their money playing Keno-603 ..... good for them.

Make America Great Again ..... over 10k prop tax on your humble abode(s)....you get no help from our very well groomed, , Uncle Donald.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

OK so to show the utter incompetence behind this argument...

1. The rich do not pay taxes because they are using all these loopholes and deductions.

2. Now these rich people who pay no taxes are getting a big tax break.


So I sit here and scratch my head and say hey wait a minute if you're not paying taxes in the first place how can you get a big tax break????

Who are you saying needs an education? Your idea of math doesn't add up

That was exactly his point; hence, the use of a question mark.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.

Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.

[Major]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.

Understood. However, I find it funny that when Obamacare was introduced, Democrats proudly announced that each family will save $2,500 on health insurance, like $2,500 was a lot of money. (For the record, I think $2,500 is significant. Also, I will refrain from commenting on the financial effect of Obamacare on health insurance.) Now, the $2000 or so tax break the present tax reform will afford each family is being called "modest." Also, for years conservatives (not Republicans) have been concerned about the national debt, with no word from Democrats. Now, all of a sudden, Democrats are frantic about the debt.

Although I pay MA state taxes, I agree with the Republican approach to punish blue states. Government can succeed with less taxes, and maybe those states should consider eliminating state income taxes, which I think is the goal.

As stated above, the issue is spending, not revenue. Government (U.S. and state) severely needs to be pared back. We have a spending problem.