Fake IDs

[jr616]

Asking for a Friend . . . please don't judge.

20yr old caught with fake ID at Meadowbrook. Polite, apologetic and sober.
Was released and allowed to stay at concert.

Has ticket to appear in court.
Anyone had or know of similar experience - how do things go doing in court?

[iw8surf]

We went on spring break one time back in college to Myrtle Beach. A friend got caught by a bouncer with a fake ID and was arrested. Had to appear in court like 4 months later and ended up with a fine and some community service that he did while he was down there. Granted this was maybe 14 years ago. While at UNH they told us it was a felony but who knows they tell you a lot of things to scare you at that age (someone confirm?) but I'd imagine it would be something like a 500$ fine plus a slap on the wrist of some sort. However if the person ever wants to work in a field like I do (defense/aerospace) they'll have to explain that situation for background check, security clearance etc. No judgement, we were all kids once, the big difference is some of you were kids when drinking was legal at 18 and some of us not!

[winterharbor59]

He needs a lawyer to go with him who is familiar with the local court.


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[winterharbor59]

He needs a criminal defense lawyer licensed in NH. It is a misdemeanor but if convicted he may be required to report this on every job application for perpetuity. It can be considered a fraud offense which would preclude employability in certain professions.


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[Phantom]

echoing above--- no matter how "trivial" it may seem -- he is going to Court … retain a local (referred) lawyer !


Not Apples to Apples, but a few years back my son (20 something at the time) was cited for leaving the scene of an accident -- drove his car into the ditch on a Winters night & struck a sign. ---- yes there is more to the story, but that is what he was cited for to appear in court --- retaining an attorney was the best thing we did given we unfortunately drew a stern judge !



.

[Major]

I'm not sure whether Bob still practices but he is the best at this sort of thing. Bob is (was) with Wescott Law in Laconia. Good luck

[ApS]

A few weeks ago, a few Massachusetts DMV employees were discovered selling 100s of real drivers licenses.

Incidents of successful detection by law enforcement should be coming to trial. Lawyers who've familiarized themselves with multiple cases should be sought out in "your friend's" case.

OTOH, if it's his first offense of any kind, he should brush up on correct responses in court, and he won't need a lawyer.

[Major]

Originally Posted by ApS

A few weeks ago, a few Massachusetts DMV employees were discovered selling 100s of real drivers licenses.

Incidents of successful detection by law enforcement should be coming to trial. Lawyers who've familiarized themselves with multiple cases should be sought out in "your friend's" case.

OTOH, if it's his first offense of any kind, he should brush up on correct responses in court, and he won't need a lawyer.

I disagree. NH judges don't care whether it's your first or hundredth offense. My experience has been that no mercy is given, even for a relatively minor first offense. I highly recommend spending the dough on a good lawyer.

[TiltonBB]

I agree 100% that he should go to court with a lawyer.

He may be able to negotiate a "continued without a finding" or another conclusion that will not leave him with a criminal record. That might be the best result, especially if his record was squeaky clean before this incident. That last thing you want is to have to answer "yes" every time the criminal record question comes up in the future.

I also agree that Wescott Law is excellent. I have used Bill Woodbury for several matters and always been very impressed with the work he did at a fair price. He is the brightest lawyer I have come across and he has an excellent reputation with the local courts. That could go a long way when trying to negotiate a deal.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by ApS

A few weeks ago, a few Massachusetts DMV employees were discovered selling 100s of real drivers licenses.

I used various colors/font styles/Bold so you can see just how ridiculous that sentence was.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by jr616

Asking for a Friend . . . please don't judge.

20yr old caught with fake ID at Meadowbrook. Polite, apologetic and sober.
Was released and allowed to stay at concert.

Has ticket to appear in court.
Anyone had or know of similar experience - how do things go doing in court?

There isn't any reason to show your ID at Meadowbrook other than to purchase alcohol. Therefore the young man must have tried to purchase it with the fake ID.
He could face two charges if be tried to purchase alcohol.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Rusty

There isn't any reason to show your ID at Meadowbrook other than to purchase alcohol. Therefore the young man must have tried to purchase it with the fake ID.
He could face two charges if be tried to purchase alcohol.

Maybe a cop asked for his id and showed the wrong one. Been to several concerts there and they are brutal. Nothing like Gillette....

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I used various colors/font styles/Bold so you can see just how ridiculous that sentence was.

They weren't fake if signed and issued by the DMV, it's just that the DMV issued them in an illegal manner. Therefore they were actually real when given to the person who purchased them.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Rusty

They weren't fake if signed and issued by the DMV, it's just that the DMV issued them in an illegal manner. Therefore they were actually real when given to the person who purchased them.

The scary part is that you believe they were real and that this is how it happened and that it is OK.

The "DMV" as you say, did not issue them, some crooked corrupt employee working for the DMV broke the law to create them. They were still fake. The employee that made them knew they were fake and the illegal that accepted them knew they were fake.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

The scary part is that you believe they were real and that this is how it happened and that it is OK.

The "DMV" as you say, did not issue them, some crooked corrupt employee working for the DMV broke the law to create them. They were still fake. The employee that made them knew they were fake and the illegal that accepted them knew they were fake.

Ok, why don't we say that the DMV issued fake real licenses..

[TiltonBB]

A lot of sniping here lately.

We all have different opinions and we come from many diverse backgrounds. Some people live here, some vacation here, some spend weekends here, and some just visit once in a while.

We are brought together by this website and our enjoyment and appreciation of Lake Winnipesaukee and all that it means to each of us. We all have our own ways of enjoying and appreciating it.

In the words of a now famous person: Can't we all just get along?

Jumping on a difference of opinion or specific wording seems to be pretty small compared to the big picture.

Don, the Webmaster, has provided us with and guided a fantastic website that we all love to look at and learn from. It is something that many of us log into several times a day just to keep up with what is going on.

Let's enjoy the website and the lake, and the opinions of others, and try to keep the small critical comments to a minimum. As many have said, life is too short.

Enjoy it until you get fitted for your toe tag.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

The scary part is that you believe they were real and that this is how it happened and that it is OK.



The "DMV" as you say, did not issue them, some crooked corrupt employee working for the DMV broke the law to create them. They were still fake. The employee that made them knew they were fake and the illegal that accepted them knew they were fake.

The”illegal” who accepted them . . ? What are you implying or trying to say?


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Major

I disagree. NH judges don't care whether it's your first or hundredth offense. My experience has been that no mercy is given, even for a relatively minor first offense. I highly recommend spending the dough on a good lawyer.

'Thinking about this some more, the case I quoted was a Federal case, so finding a number of suitable "fake-id-experienced" lawyers is much diminished.

But from being privy to many Florida courtroom cases, I'd "go it alone".

In a courtroom of 100 traffic "offendees", (of which I was one) everyone was sent home with no "findings" and no fines.

>

[winnisquam]

There are many ways for one to find themselves with a court date. The legal system is a big machine that runs on a core process and flow of information that is better understood by folks that have been educated in that regard, and have respectful relationships with the caretakers of our legal system.

On a personal note, without getting into detail, my son ran into a challenge with MP about 5 years ago that was completely blown out of proportion, he ended up with a court date. I was fortunate enough to witness the situation other wise I may not have been sure of what the truth of the matter was!

In his prime, he did not need a record for the rest of his life for this misunderstanding that was based more on personality. I hired the best lawyer I could find and it still took a lot of effort, explanation, and the time required for a judge to listen versus moving the process along with a decision!

So, GET A LAWYER, where a suit, have significant others in a neat, tidy, and respectful manner sitting next to him while he awaits his turn for justice!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Major]

Originally Posted by ApS

'But from being privy to many Florida courtroom cases, I'd "go it alone".

In a courtroom of 100 traffic "offendees", (of which I was one) everyone was sent home with no "findings" and no fines.

>

Unfortunately, the NH court/justice system does not work that way. I would bet my home that if the OP went it alone, s/he would be convicted of the original offense, with the mandatory punishment applied. No question. The benefit of hiring an attorney is that the prosecutor will negotiate with the defendant's attorney out of respect for the attorney and the motivation to avoid a protracted case.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A lot of sniping here lately.

We all have different opinions and we come from many diverse backgrounds. Some people live here, some vacation here, some spend weekends here, and some just visit once in a while.

We are brought together by this website and our enjoyment and appreciation of Lake Winnipesaukee and all that it means to each of us. We all have our own ways of enjoying and appreciating it.

In the words of a now famous person: Can't we all just get along?

Jumping on a difference of opinion or specific wording seems to be pretty small compared to the big picture.

Don, the Webmaster, has provided us with and guided a fantastic website that we all love to look at and learn from. It is something that many of us log into several times a day just to keep up with what is going on.

Let's enjoy the website and the lake, and the opinions of others, and try to keep the small critical comments to a minimum. As many have said, life is too short.

Enjoy it until you get fitted for your toe tag.

Lately? C'mon. It seems the forum is a "forum" for every grouse and quibble
possible.

[upthesaukee]

Heard a similar story the other day.

Young person caught with false ID(s?) at Meadowbrook. Liquor enforcement asked to see ID as the person had an "adult bracelet" on, which would allow that individual to purchase alcohol.

To me, not different from getting caught in a bar with false ID or buying booze / beer with one.

(Oh yeah, it's also a case of "there but for the grace of God go I)

Dave

[The Real BigGuy]

My brother got stopped in NH for DUI several years ago. Good lawyer got cp to explain that the stop was made because my bro crossed the “fog line” (white line on the right) and to admit that crossing the line was not a violation. So, illegal stop. He also got him to admit that he had been told by an instructor in training that the roadside sobriety tests (which my brother failed) were designed for the person being tested to fail. So, biased testing. Result: my brother lost his license for a year. Major is correct, NH courts don’t work that way. Get the best lawyer you can afford.


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[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, the NH court/justice system does not work that way. I would bet my home that if the OP went it alone, s/he would be convicted of the original offense, with the mandatory punishment applied. No question. The benefit of hiring an attorney is that the prosecutor will negotiate with the defendant's attorney out of respect for the attorney and the motivation to avoid a protracted case.

I am not going to belabour the conversation much further as I think the Original Poster got his question answered ……………

My final comments are kind of in line with Majors point -- I do not know if NH is set up that same as MA but in the case/experience that we went through, all Mass courts have a "Clerk of the Court" -- they are very powerful individuals, and their prime purpose is to keep frivolous cases out of the system. By frivolous I do not mean not necessarily worthy of the court- but rather situations that can be resolved without having to fill up the court Docket...……… with attorneys present the parties can reach agreement that the "Clerk" is satisfied with and the case never goes to trial -----

For that to happen -- you need an attorney !!


Nuff said, I'm out of this thread now
.

[jr616]

Like most of the minors (under 21) that were appearing in court that day...

The judge was very nice but stern and fair. Probation, fines and on record for 2 years after which it can be annulled. MOST of them were remorseful and respectful.

She was in fact guilty and ended up not obtaining a lawyer. She is 20 and made that decision on her own.

[Major]

Originally Posted by jr616

Like most of the minors (under 21) that were appearing in court that day...

The judge was very nice but stern and fair. Probation, fines and on record for 2 years after which it can be annulled. MOST of them were remorseful and respectful.

She was in fact guilty and ended up not obtaining a lawyer. She is 20 and made that decision on her own.

No mercy. Judges are usually very nice, but the fact is that she was charged with possessing a fake ID, convicted of it, and punished to the full extent, I assume. She should have at least consulted with an attorney, since she didn't and does not know what she doesn't know. Now, for the next two years, she has to say that she's been arrested and convicted of a misdemeanor. I feel sorry for her since I was let go as a "yout" for things far worse than possessing a fake ID.

[WinnisquamZ]

Agree, she does have to say she is convicted. But, if these next two years are spent in college. Looking for employment after graduation it should be a non issue


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[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Major

No mercy. Judges are usually very nice, but the fact is that she was charged with possessing a fake ID, convicted of it, and punished to the full extent, I assume. She should have at least consulted with an attorney, since she didn't and does not know what she doesn't know. Now, for the next two years, she has to say that she's been arrested and convicted of a misdemeanor. I feel sorry for her since I was let go as a "yout" for things far worse than possessing a fake ID.

I am not positive, but I believe job applications only ask about felonies, not misdemeanors. This should be a non-issue.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I am not positive, but I believe job applications only ask about felonies, not misdemeanors. This should be a non-issue.

Many applications ask whether the candidate was ever arrested, whether for a felony or a misdemeanor, and convicted. Our firm does.

[iw8surf]

for the security clearance process I was asked to explain any traffic tickets I received never mind any arrests.

[TiltonBB]

A lot of companies review your Facebook postings. I wouldn't go overboard discussing it with your online friends.

People have lost many job opportunities when their posts included how "wasted" they got last weekend or any other nonsense that would concern a future employer.

She may wish to wait a month and Google her name to see what comes up. A future employer might do that.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

No mercy. Judges are usually very nice, but the fact is that she was charged with possessing a fake ID, convicted of it, and punished to the full extent, I assume. She should have at least consulted with an attorney, since she didn't and does not know what she doesn't know. Now, for the next two years, she has to say that she's been arrested and convicted of a misdemeanor. I feel sorry for her since I was let go as a "yout" for things far worse than possessing a fake ID.

I'm with you, Major, on both the attorney and what would have been appropriate justice. Even reading this thread for the tenth time I can't believe this went any further than the officer confiscating the ID and booting the kids from the venue.

[TiltonBB]

Well, you have to be careful with that. Once an officer has contact with someone he assumes some liability for what happens next. Just taking the ID and letting them go also teaches no lesson and all their friends will know it is no problem if you get caught with a phony ID.

What has been posted here is only one side of a story and we will never know the actual full facts.

Many times it is a situation where people with phony ID's have been drinking earlier in the night. When an officer lets them go and they get in a car accident the actual and legal results are huge. It happens.

It is similar to when an officer stops a vehicle with expired plates and instead of towing the unregistered vehicle he allows the operator to continue on. In some states with mandatory insurance your current active registration is your proof of insurance. If there is a subsequent accident or incident the public will want answers.

In this suit happy world many things that may have been overlooked in the past cannot be ignored any more. It is just the way it is.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I used various colors/font styles/Bold so you can see just how ridiculous that sentence was.

These were "real" because the licenses were sufficient for American passport applications, alcohol for minor drivers and in some states,
converting to voter registration ID cards.

"Many were in the U.S. illegally".

• "RealID"? Even one clerk who issued the Massachusetts drivers licenses possessed fake IDs!

• The $2000 licenses were issued to perhaps 300 foreign opioid sellers—residing in the USA. (Some of whom had been previously deported).
If, as alleged above, the new Massachusetts drivers were also street-sellers of opioids, can the result eventually mean that real American doctors physicians' licenses will be revoked?

• A "flunk-rate" of 57% Florida drivers license test failures could account for such sales of Massachusetts drivers licenses.

"Further investigation revealed that the four Haymarket RMV clerks were allegedly working with [two RMV employees] to provide licenses and identification cards to illegal aliens for cash."
https://www.masslive.com/news/index....s_rmv_wor.html

Probation=Don't Do It Again for Two Years...

Originally Posted by jr616

Like most of the minors (under 21) that were appearing in court that day... The judge was very nice but stern and fair. Probation, fines and on record for 2 years after which it can be annulled. MOST of them were remorseful and respectful. She was in fact guilty and ended up not obtaining a lawyer. She is 20 and made that decision on her own.

All but one of the above RMV clerks got probation!

[BroadHopper]

As Major and other locals agree on one thing. Local district court judges pretty much all cases are guilty, regardless of circumstances. A local lawyer is a must as they know how to handle the local judge(s).

[glennsteely]

Local courts don’t do a ton of “business” in the off season up there......they need money, period. This is definitely not to stomp on our courts, our freedoms, our country, so before you try to crucify me for my comments, remember, these are just MY OPINION and my reason for posting is to give the best advice I can offer to the thread starter, WHO ASKED FOR IT!!

I would say a fool proof plan for a young man/woman with a spotless record would be as follows:

1. Volunteer work dealing with underage drinking, drinking and driving, talking with younger kids about the error of their ways, etc. needs to be found and started ASAP.

2. A lawyer needs to be retained ASAP, from what I have read here, the recommended attorney sounds like your best bet, because, knowing how to handle the local courts and court personnel goes the distance, every time. The amount of recommendations he has received here speaks for the quality of work you can expect to receive from him, I am sure.

3. NO TROUBLE AT ALL.......do not spit on the sidewalk or Jaywalk while this is ongoing!!!

Now, talk to the lawyer about what is called “One year rule” (might have a different name there, but it will be something he knows about.)
It will require an appearance, where he/she will be required to plead guilty, and the the judge will suspend sentencing for 1 year, at that time, if he/she has been in absolutely NO TROUBLE at all, another appearance will be required and the judge will dismiss the original charge/charges, and throw away the guilty plea, resulting in nothing, not even the original arrest, being recorded on his/her permanent criminal record, therefore sparing him/her from EVER having to check that box that says “yes.”

I almost forgot, if anything goes wrong during that year, like another arrest, etc. allows the judge to impose the original sentence, with no credit for time gone by, and run whatever sentence consecutive to the penalty for the new charges.
Just an example:
Guilty plea suspends a 5 year prison sentence, 11 months into the 1 year suspension a new crime is committed that carries a 10 year sentence, found guilty on the new charge, and sentenced to the full 10 years, results in the 5 year sentence having to be satisfied first, STARTING back at day 1, with no credit for the 11 months gone by, before the 10 year sentence even starts.
That is DEFINITELY a big stretch from what we are talking about here, but it makes it very easy to understand.
Hope that helps.

[gravy boat]

The law was broken - knowingly. Retain a good Lawyer as you don't want to look back and kick yourself for not doing so.

As a recruiter I can tell you first-hand that many companies administer criminal background checks and drug screens as a condition of employment. And yes - most job applications require full disclosure of whether "convicted" of a felony and/or misdemeanor.

I believe - and someone please correct me if I am mistaken on this - that a conviction stays on your record for 7 or 10 years. That means this will follow the kid until his late 20s.

Lawyer is the best route on this.

Good luck to your friend.

[Major]

Originally Posted by glennsteely

Now, talk to the lawyer about what is called “One year rule” (might have a different name there, but it will be something he knows about.)
It will require an appearance, where he/she will be required to plead guilty, and the the judge will suspend sentencing for 1 year, at that time, if he/she has been in absolutely NO TROUBLE at all, another appearance will be required and the judge will dismiss the original charge/charges, and throw away the guilty plea, resulting in nothing, not even the original arrest, being recorded on his/her permanent criminal record, therefore sparing him/her from EVER having to check that box that says “yes.”

You almost have it correct. After one year, she can petition the court to reduce the infraction from a misdemeanor to a violation. All that needs to be done is to go to the district court and fill out a form. They are very helpful. After the petition is approved, she does not have to state that she was arrested and/or convicted of a misdemeanor.

[Top-Water]

Not trying to side track the thread, but seen this interesting story on the today show this morning and then thought about this thread. Hate to say it but I would have probably fell for this to. Seems like only one elderly woman did the right thing. With all the scams out there these days, would you have been fooled. A pretty (easy/ crafty) identity theft scam that targets folks that more or less are trying to be helpful towards the police.

https://www.today.com/video/fake-cop...67744?v=raila&

On a lighter note I want a fake marine patrol boat and uniform.

[glennsteely]

Originally Posted by Major

You almost have it correct. After one year, she can petition the court to reduce the infraction from a misdemeanor to a violation. All that needs to be done is to go to the district court and fill out a form. They are very helpful. After the petition is approved, she does not have to state that she was arrested and/or convicted of a misdemeanor.

Major,
I am not sure, I am def not a lawyer......lol, but, I can say that I have not ALWAYS been the upstanding, law abiding citizen I am today.....LOL!! x 3 = Hahaha!!!
I TOO had a youth, (many, many moons ago,) and my youth may have been just a tad bit wilder than most......that being said, My perm home is in New Jersey, (where I am stuck, not by choice) and I can say for certain that the “1 year rule” that I am referring to is exactly as I described it, here in Jersey anyway.
My neighbor just went through it all with his son, who is an otherwise, OUTSTANDING kid, who just made a stupid judgement call when shortly after school was out for the summer this year, was discovered to be a little “tipsy” with some of his buddies, who are other good kids from town, spray painting on the back side of one of our Elementary Schools that is behind our homes, on the outskirts of our development. Nothing crazy or newsworthy, just some bad, bad attempts at being artistic, hopefully reminding them why they are all pushed and encouraged to be good students and good athletes, (not art students.)
I really shouldn’t be making jokes about it, because it is a good example of how a stupid mistake, or something that after a few beers seemed like a good thing to do, (another stupid part of this whole bad night, that could have been much, much worse, had it been a car or hunting weapon or ANYTHING other than spray paint they chose to express themselves with.) Just 1 second in time, that 1 bad decision, can change a lifetime, a life, a future, or worse, LIVES......meaning many, we all know the variables, no need to go thru all of them.

.......anywho.....getting back on track, they were able to spare all of these kid’s futures, (this time anyway) from being scarred with the black mark that this, stupid, petty little mistake could have generated for years, actually, the MOST IMPORTANT and some would argue, the BEST years of there lives......
In the end, all 6 of the boys received the “1 year rule” which included quite a bit more than the normal requirements. 2 of them received 50 hours each for their roles in the artwork, they are brothers, and they did not participate in the drinking. The next 3 of them, including our neighbor’s boy, received 100 community service hours each, for the underage liquor consumption and being intoxicated in public, as well as the painting. The real “dummy” of the crowd, our friend’s son, Devon, 1 of the local star athletes for our High School, called himself “running” from the police, and took off from the scene in trying to not get caught, losing a flip flop where he ran from, that his mother had written his name in!! So, he had a REAL bad time in leading our police on a 40 minute “manhunt” with only 1 flip flop......more funny to come

.......Stupid, I did say stupid, right? The local police are all our friends, and they know all of these boys.......plus, these 6 kids are ALWAYS together, so 1 look at the crowd always gets the, “where is so and so” if that crowd isn’t all 6 of them. The other boys all told the arresting officers who it was that ran, all of 1.2 seconds after the cuffs were on......lol. Ok, so here it is......I told you Devon is on of our STAR athletes, right? Football, baseball, golf, he does it all, but his real claim to fame? This boy is FAST!! Ready? TRACK!!

Wow.
Devon got 150 hours.
The “1 year rule” saved them, so if they complete their court ordered punishments and stay squeaky clean for the year, it all goes away, everything. Like it never happened.