![]() |
![]() |
|
Home | Forums | Gallery | Webcams | Blogs | YouTube Channel | Classifieds | Calendar | Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#301 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 521
Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
I would liken it to a person who does not drink going into a bar and saying that the bar should be banned from selling alcohol. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#302 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,615
Thanks: 256
Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Do you have any idea how many hours a week he has to spend perusing these speed limit threads? Do you have any idea how much he and his family have sacrificed over the years to allow us the freedom to use this beloved website? No, you don't. Or you would not be making such an uninformed statement as I have quoted above. Its simple. You have been given ample opportunity to make your point...again & again & again & again. There are a significant amount of posters within the speed limit threads that have not been convinced by your arguments. Accept that fact and move on. But please, do not attempt to hide the inability of your arguments to convince others by attacking the integrity of our gracious host. Quite frankly if you truly feel the way you have indicated above, simply find another venue to post your thoughts. Perhaps devote your ample mental prowess towards creating your own kayak themed lakes region website where you can then experience the responsibility of moderating your own threads. Perhaps then you can earn the right to return here, with some sense of credibility, and criticize the job our webmaster is doing running this website! To the rest...sorry for the rant, but enough is enough. ![]() Skip |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#303 |
Senior Member
|
![]()
I'd agree with that Skip. The moderator has done an exceptional job of allowing a spirited debate to continue, and I'm sure he's had to intervene at times that most of us may not have witnessed.
He's a very gracious host, and I also appreciate his efforts. I originally found this site when doing some research for a trip. It's an invaluable source for those of us with ties to the region, that no longer live in the area. My love of boating started on Winni when I was just a small kid, and it continues to this day. I hate to become an old geezer on this point, but I'll not be repeatedly preached to by someone that one day plunked a kayak into a lake and discovered that life is not perfect. My boat cushion has more experience on the lake than her, blah blah blah. Until the adults get together and decide on plans for meeting with the marine patrol to discuss the real issues, nothing will be solved. I plan to do much the same thing here this summer on my own pond. We have the idiots and offenders, and the patrols were very lax here last summer IMO. As I'm quite sure those in the CG and State Police would much rather be out on the water doing their jobs, I certainly don't blame them, other forces are at work here. There's always those that love to jump to conclusions, support a feel good cause or two, and then there's the mature people that actually do something about it. I simply cannot have much respect for whiners, selfish ones at that. The problems on most bodies of water are pretty easy to spot. It's high time serious boaters pitch in and help solve the problems. I thanks those that have made these discussions informative, mostly civil, and pretty helpful to those of us that actually want to help out. Once again, I join Skip in thanking our generous host for his labors, his restraint, and for providing this site for the many other uses it offers. A tip of my hat to you sir. |
![]() |
![]() |
#304 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,568
Thanks: 3,199
Thanked 1,099 Times in 792 Posts
|
![]()
I agree with Skip. The webmaster is a grateful host and probably the reason this forum is one of the most talked about forum on the web.
I live on Lake Winni since I was about 7. My parent move to the lake from Winnisquam. At my age, I have to admit, I am well experieced to say a thing or two on this forum. I occasionally step in to say a thing or two. Enough is enough! I kayak every morning from sunrise to about 8 or 9 AM. I have no issues with the powerboaters who are respectful at all! The idea of being able to paddle on the lake on a misty morning and hear the loon cry is the best experience I had all my life. To this day I get goosebumps. There is a time and place for all watercrafts. Be it paddleboats, sailboats or powerboats. If everyone is out at a decent time and everyone recognize each other's place then there shouldn't be a problem. The Captain Boneheads are not limited to skippering powerboats. I have seen them in paddleboats and sailboats as well. Education is a strong tool. Let's get the word out. But to fight for what ails you will have no end in sight. ![]()
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
![]() |
![]() |
#305 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
VtSteve makes some good points, however his statement about having little respect for whiners, selfish ones at that , deserves further comment. Evenstar, in my opinion, has been reepeatedly and angrily denounced for opinions which differ from most of the posters on this forum. Her concerns echo those of many of us who feel that boating on Winni has taken on a "wild west, anything goes" atmosphere. The rancor leveled at her and others who have supported a speed limit for Winni has driven away or kept away those who may have dissenting opinions, again in my opinion. Many, many people have earnestly embraced the 45/25 speed limit as a reasonable solution, and there has been no shortage of "whiners" and melodrama in the anti speed limit camp. A few arguments/issues I've had difficulty with:
1) We should not have a speed limit because there are not enough resources to enforce them. Well in my NH town we have many many miles of road and just 1 or 2 cops to enforce speed limits. I can drive for miles and miles with little expectation of seeing a police cruiser. Does that mean we should repeal all speed limits in town? Obviously not...the speed limit alone is a deterrent for most people. 2) The arguments that a speed limit will unequivably drive business from the state . Many business owners have been proponents of the speed limit because they feel it will improve business and that said wild west atmosphere has in fact driven many power boaters away. 3) That the pro speed limit group has a monopoly on all of the melodrama in this controversy over speed limits on the lake. After the house passed the first speed limit, one objector moaned " if the old man of the mtn were still standing, he would have shed a tear today". Oh brother. 4) A poll showing that the majority of NH people are in favor of speed limits has been dismissed with a variety of specious (and angry, bitter) arguments . Our legislators in the House and Senate are characterized as having been totally bamboozled by the Winnfabs (sometimes referred to as Winncrabs, Winnfarts) crowd. One poster commented that we need to vote these hacks out. Isn't that what happened after the last election with a Senate that rejected speed limits? 5) That this law is really only a thinly disguised way of getting boats/boaters off the lake that they don't like. In reality, reasonable people and their representatives make laws all the time to restrict objectionable behavior that is felt to be inappropriate. For example, we have laws in my town that regulate dogs who bark all night. Have we enacted legislation against dogs/owners that we don't like? Call it whatever you want. And if people object to boats going 70 MPH 150' from the little put put from which they are fishing...well. Well, enough for now, but to Evenstar, just because you've been singled out and maligned in a forum where you are the minority doesn't mean that no one hasn't noted your sincere committment to what you believe in. Keep up the good work. The speed limit will happen. Maybe people will even slow down enough to ... see the turtles. |
![]() |
Sponsored Links |
|
![]() |
#306 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
We've taken a poll here which yielded a vastly different result than the one in Manchester.... The speed limit study (no matter how you add/subtract/divide/multiply) shows that under 1% of the sample study were exceeding the propsed limits. In conclusion, I ask you - what problem is the speed limit addressing? |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#307 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 213
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#308 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
I've always contended that the major areas being cited as reason enough for the speed limit were flawed. BI's many posts regarding the NWZ being violated, sometimes at very high speeds, spoke to the complete lack of enforcement there. The 150' rule is one of the most fundamental safety laws on the lake. But according to many, it is violated constantly. I'm admitting that I'm assuming here, that in order to avoid discussions about increased MP presence and funding for enforcement, she in particular went out of her way to come up with some rather creative reasoning. I don't automatically assume that by having a speed limit it will cut down on the number of 150' violations. I base this assumption only on the fact that the vast majority of violations I've witnessed over the years through now, and other's stated posts, are done by boaters not exceeding the proposed speed limit. The last desperation of some concluded that the tragic accident that occurred in the bay, was reason enough for the speed limit. The boat was "calculated" to be doing 28mph at night, not 25mph or less. The more crap that was thrown out regarding erosion, waves, etc... I quickly realized there were other reasons for the limit being proposed. Some admitted to it, others to this day do not. I think the reason she was "singled out", as you put it, is not because of her position. Heck, everyone has opinions. It was the fact that she engages in behavior on the lake that many of us old timers viewed as imprudent forty years ago, let alone today. That was an opinion, so fine and fair. But to use outrageous extrapolations of data and call it statistical evidence that proves a study is flawed, totally dismiss the flag on kayak issue that I know many kayakers actually think is a good idea, and to repeatedly state opinions as fact is subject to a heated debate. The fact that no proponents of the new law, (again, that I'm aware of), ever engaged in a discussion of the lack of enforcement or additional funding, spoke volumes as to where their stands really were on the issue. They apparently weren't scared that the new speed limit would be enforced, only that it was passed. So no, I have no respect for whiners that will not, repeat, will not address concerns about enforcement, and will not even begin to discuss their own behavior. Many of us have been boating for decades, and know full well what the problems on the water are. The first time I had the discussion of reckless behavior on Winni was some 25 years ago, which is a couple of decades plus longer than she ever dropped her sea kayak in the lake. Her complaints almost coincided with her boat getting wet there. But instead of realizing that the laws she cites repeatedly be enforced, she spent a great deal of time supporting this new law, never really entering into a discussion as to how it would be enforced. Statistical studies aside, I call that BS every time I see it. Those that are never wrong, rarely engage in discussion that could lead to obvious solutions. As one of the MP dudes said, you'd think Winni was total carnage during the summer. In reality, there are some boaters that need to be spanked for their actions, or just taken off the lake. So don't get all teary eyed about angry rebuttals, the total refusal to debate facts or solutions that would be obvious to most is the real issue. The next step is already on the table. Next summer, exactly what will be done to solve the problems? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#309 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#310 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Because it involved people that have an inkling of interest in Winnipesaukee and/or because it directly contradicts the Manchester poll? Or because it doesn't support the agenda of the pro speed limit crowd? (For the record, I didn't vote) Back to my original question - What problem is the speed limit going to solve in 2009? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#311 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough & Southern NH
Posts: 133
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 18 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
![]() It will be interesting to see how much enforcement goes into the law. As discussed once or twice (or more...), accurately getting a boat speed isn't as easy as a cop driving around with his radar on. If the goal of this is to make the lake safer, they'll be out looking for people during the peak boating times in all the usual areas. If they're looking to get everyone who's violating the law, they'll be up bright and early to get the bass boats that go cruising by my house with just their prop in the water. For the record, I'm against the limit although not really for my personal gain. My jet ski will break the law, but it's pretty much in the margin of error range of the limit and I'm not doing that all that often. I think there are more issues with the 150' rule and general Capt. inattention. The proponents of the law will say that at least the boneheads are going slower. I guess that's a win for them but I say that they're still boneheads and they're still captaining a multi-ton vessel. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#312 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 213
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
|
![]() Quote:
Skip posted this a while back Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
#313 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
No, because this is primarily a forum for those who are against a speed limit. And as in my previous post, the rancor leveled against dissenting opinion has driven off/kept away the speed limit proponents. Chicken for dinner anyone?
Last edited by Turtle Boy; 05-21-2008 at 01:26 PM. Reason: punctuation |
![]() |
![]() |
#314 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]()
[QUOTE=Turtle Boy;70939]
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#315 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
One doesn't need a Ph.D. in mathematics or statistics to see that this is primarily a forum for the no speed limit crowd, which is why the previous poll of NH residents has far more statistical significance.
Last edited by Turtle Boy; 05-21-2008 at 01:38 PM. Reason: quotewrong |
![]() |
![]() |
#316 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Opinions aside, you still haven't illustrated what problem the speed limit bill is going to solve. I'll wait.... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#317 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,075
Thanks: 215
Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts
|
![]()
Funny how people see things different.How about maybe it represents how the people that use this lake really feel and not those who have never been in a boat.The numbers speak volumes,especially from where they are derived.
__________________
SIKSUKR |
![]() |
![]() |
#318 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 521
Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Why do people who never boat on Winnipesaukee have more say than those of us who do? This is exactly why I have a problem with my local representative. She had never been on Winni, and had no intentions to do so. Heck, her region is the Concord area. So who was she representing when she voted in favor of HB847? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#319 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Again re-read my initial post of today...the speed limit will address the "wild west, anything goes" mentality that is driving so many people away from the lake. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#320 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
Interesting theory but statistically flawed...see my previous post...if you want a valid, statistically neutral opinion about alcohol use in this country, don't go to a temperence meeting or to your local bar. If you want the same for speed limits, don't go to this forum or to a Winnfabs meeting
|
![]() |
![]() |
#321 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough & Southern NH
Posts: 133
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 18 Posts
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#322 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
The speed survey showed that 0.29% of the boats were travelling at a rate of speed greater than 45mph. That's not even 1%!!!! This survey also doesn't account for those 0.29% that were driving recklessly.... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#323 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 521
Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
And what's with the "wild west" thing? Is it really that bad on the lake? I think not. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#324 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
maybe you're right though one has to look at the kind of traffic....low impact, 15 HP, 150 HP, 15 MPH, 30 MPH, vs high impact, 800 HP, 70 MPH. We have a saying where I work that 95% of the complaints and problems are generated by 5% of the people. I see similar examples on Winni.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#325 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 521
Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
What one thing do a majority of the boating accidents have in common? Here is a hint...it begins with a guy named AL... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#326 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#327 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#328 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hopkinton NH
Posts: 395
Thanks: 88
Thanked 80 Times in 46 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
Cancer SUCKS! ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#329 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
Ryan please see my post from 4:05 PM...a poll derived entirely from a single forum violates all accepted basic tenets and fundamentals of statistics, polling and sampling error. Any statitition or pollster will tell you a poll of only this forum would have zero validity.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#330 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Unfortunately, this has been hashed out over and over again, and you're not going to win in this crowd. So, let's move on to our 0.29% of reckless boaters that are going to be scooped up and moved off the lake in 2009!!!! The thoughts of mass safety are almost palpable!!!! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#331 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
[QUOTE=Ryan;70966]Since we're just going to reference prior posts, please see Wolfboro Baja's post from above.
Unfortunately, this has been hashed out over and over again, and you're not going to win in this crowd. At last, something we can both agree upon. |
![]() |
![]() |
#332 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#333 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#334 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
So, that being said, I've read in these pages that our Reps. and Senators are "hacks" that should be voted out of office, a poll of NH voters asking what they feel is right for their lakes has no relevence, and seen rather vicious attacks to anyone with dissenting opinions contrary to those prevailing on this site. Yet the bill passed despite the, what was it, 85 % of people on this forum's poll who feel a speed limit is unnecessary? Maybe it's a great big conspiracy??? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#335 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Apparently, you have not read much into these pages, as just as recently as Monday, there was a discussion surrounding some of the Op Ed pieces published by the pro speed limit force. I suggest you take a look at that discussion before you start tossing around "conspiracy" theories... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#336 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#337 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Her background came into question well after. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#338 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,921
Thanks: 475
Thanked 691 Times in 387 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#339 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]()
Then, again, perhaps someone is fine-tuning their spin skills, in preparation for the November election spinathon.
Then, again, perhaps the second string has been called to duty since a certain poster is noticeable absent from the ongoing diatribe.
__________________
[Assume funny, clever sig is here. Laugh and reflect... ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#340 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
Boooooo ![]() Just think, Winni will be part of the ocean, and the boats will get larger and faster. Kinda skeery isn't it? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#341 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,921
Thanks: 475
Thanked 691 Times in 387 Posts
|
![]()
Hmmm, Turtle Boy has his first 13 posts in 7 hours all looking to pick a fight. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a troll, but he is pretty close. As soon as I can figure out that ignore feature, I think I'll make use of it.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#342 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 1,357
Thanks: 993
Thanked 313 Times in 163 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
If the proponents did not make up "facts", no one would question the source of their numbers. However, this whole issue of 'speed limits needed to improve safety on the lake' is a "house of cards". That is why knowledgeable people question Winnfabs "facts". In almost every case, the "facts" have been fiction. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time! (This is not an original statement, but I do not remember who said it first.) ![]() I hope this explains the behavior. No one is attacking any messenger, but they have every right to seek the truth. R2B Last edited by Resident 2B; 05-21-2008 at 09:03 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#343 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 40
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
|
![]()
This law has been a big waste of time and is almost impossible to enforce. Lets be real here people.. We live in a state where huge SUVs drive inches from Massive Walmart Eighteen wheelers doing Eighty mile per hour.. Legally......... For gods sake, Now they want a forty five mile limit on open water...
Pass the Weed Law, do something useless state reps....... Waste of tax payers money.. in my opinion... |
![]() |
![]() |
#344 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
I would argue that this site directly reflects a cross section of the make up of the users of this lake. Did I really need to add the "in my opinion" statement??? So it's pretty obvious that you skimmed my post but you didn't really read it. Why does this poll have Zero validity. Is that YOUR opinion. Point me to the statistician that tells me that the Manchester Poll had more or ANY validity to it. This forum brings LIKE MINDED individuals together. People who LIKE the lake. Not people who like to go fast in fast boats. If you even read one tenth of the posts on this forum you would know that most of the opponents here on this site DO NOT own Go Fast Boats. So much for your theories and cute analogies. I'd say you're back to square one. Good try though. ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#345 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#346 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 329
Thanks: 28
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
|
![]()
What?? What statistics do you have to back this statement up? I would really be interested in a more factual statement than this. This is nothing more than a simple propeganda statement with zero merit and no basis.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#347 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
OK, and what statistics do you have to refute this statement?
|
![]() |
![]() |
#348 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 329
Thanks: 28
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
|
![]()
You have the burden of proof, not I. You claim the lake has this alledged "wild west, anything goes" mentality then you have to prove it. You can't just make up stuff willy nilly. You have to have proof.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#349 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]()
OK, you say this is nothing more than a propeganda (sic) statement...what do you want? A recorded statement from a GFBL boater who yelled from the top of his lungs "Yee Hah, this is the wild west" while traveling through the entrance to Winter Harbor at 70 MPH on Aug 2nd, 2006? Get real.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#350 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 1,357
Thanks: 993
Thanked 313 Times in 163 Posts
|
![]()
Turtle Boy,
If you have any boating experience on Lake Winnipesaukee, you clearly realize how wrong and deceptive your "wild west, anything goes" statement really is. Almost every boater on the lake respects the rules, the safety of other boaters, the 150' rule and the No Wake Zones. However, there are a few boaters that are "Capt. Boneheads" that have less than appropriate respect for the rules. These folks are a small minority, but the real and big problem. If your cause is to educate and eliminate this small minority of "Captain Boneheads" you will find total and complete agreement from the opposition side of the speed limit issue. This is the real safety issue and every boater on the lake knows this. However, if you have other intentions, then keep up your trolling. R2B |
![]() |
![]() |
#351 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 329
Thanks: 28
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#352 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
If trolling means holding people accountable for their statements expressed on this forum, then...guilty as charged. And I rest my case that this forum is not in the least bit representative of a true cross section of the Winni boating population. goodnight (and slow down, maybe you'll spot a turtle or two). |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#353 | |
Deceased Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 1/2 way between Boston & Providence
Posts: 573
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 32
Thanked 55 Times in 22 Posts
|
![]()
One of the problems I have with Evenstar and some of the other pro 45/25 speed limit crusaders is their constant cry about the alleged Wild West atmosphere of boaters here. They claim reckless UNLIMITED SPEED is making our lake unsafe. They keep pushing the scary misleading concept of Unlimited Speeds by boaters. The facts have been presented numerous times that clearly show that there are laws in place making it illegal to boat unsafely. Unreasonable speeds are unsafe. Reasonable and safe speeds vary depending on the day, the season, the weather, the conditions and the traffic. There are already laws regarding reasonable, safe speeds on the lake.
Quote:
![]() I almost gave up wading through all the messages in this thread today that came from just 2 people. I had a few items to address to Evenstar regarding her question to me but I'll have to wait until my head stops spinning from all of todays messages. while I was writing this several other exchanges already took place. Whew!
__________________
Amateur HAM Radio What is it? You'll be surprised. When all else fails Ham Radio still works. Shriners Hospitals providing specialized care for children regardless of ability to pay. Find out more or refer a patient. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#354 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 1,357
Thanks: 993
Thanked 313 Times in 163 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
For someone who joined this forum within the last week, with almost all posts looking start arguments with other posters, I must question your intentions. Your posts look like the posts of a troll to me. I see no real effort to hold people accountable on your behalf. It looks like pure trolling to me, but to be fair, that is not my call. For the record, I do not drink coffee, so do not mention your cute little decaf statement to me. I also know a real turtle when I meet one, and unless the turtles have signifacantly lowered their standards recently, you are a trutle in your definition only. YBYSAIM! R2B |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#355 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 176
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#356 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Littleton, NH
Posts: 382
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How did you ever manage to twist my logic into believing that I think it is ok to paddle in the path of the Mount??? Please point to where I ever even suggested anything like that. I do my best to give powerboats as much space as possible – I never cut them off and I never paddle in the path of larger boats. I have kayaked and sailed on large ocean bays where there are shipping lanes, with ships many times larger than the Mount. At my university I work at the waterfront and am in charge of students use of kayaks on the bay. So I really do know what I’m doing and I do have way more logic than you give me credit for. Our kayaks are made for large bodies of water – and we are very visible to most boaters. I am not being unreasonable to demand that powerboat operators travel at speeds that will allow them to stay well out of our 150 foot zones. If they can’t do that, they are going too fast. Quote:
So how are personal attacks on me by several members at once being “productive and beneficial”? How are repeated attacks on my ability, my knowledge, my age, and my experience in line with the stated goals of this forum? This is supposed to be a place for everyone to share information – not just for information from one point of view. I’m a very strong advocate for recreation and for NH lakes – and for boating. And a sea kayak is just as much a boat as any powerboat – it’s just a different type of boat. I don’t mind being in the minority – I’m used to that. What I do mind is not being treated fairly, and people who treat me without respect, just because I’m outnumbered here. That is discrimination. And that is wrong on any forum. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."
|
||||||||
![]() |
![]() |
#357 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,254
Thanks: 423
Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
While you were busy not attacking anyone you said. Because of the size factor! Winni is not “just like the ocean”… You guys love using this argument, No, the two lakes are not… No I didn’t Others make it an issue by trying to … The “Kayak math” insult was from another thread… You guys love using our state motto to protect your own freedoms… My two statements were meant to be separate… Skip, I did read all your post and was not bring critical… You need to stop judging me and refrain from attacking me… Look, I’m just trying to be nice by pointing out… The key words here are “when nobody is around”… My “entire argument” is that paddlers should be… I “get the math” just fine and I seriously doubt… There was nothing fast about the way that this… I thought this was supposed to be a discussion on a …. From the Forum Rules: “No trolling” (trying… My statement when taken in context, is that some… I’ve never paddled on Lake George, in MA or in… Oops, I hit submit too soon on my last reply… Haven’t you guys got better things to do? Yes, I believe the speed study was flawed I’m not saying that you weren’t trying to be…. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#358 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 321
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.... Or say that he is flooding or trolling. Do some of you people really think the poll on this forum has any kind of validity? I thought you were kidding, but now I think some of you are so deluded you think it means something. ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#359 | |
Deceased Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 1/2 way between Boston & Providence
Posts: 573
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 32
Thanked 55 Times in 22 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Since we're both turtles, who is going to pick up the next round? By the way, it seems someone has tried to make their own definition of trolling and flooding. Do you think they fully comprehend the forum guidelines? For Islander. It has been shown that unsafe operation on the Lake is illegal. Unreasonable speed is unsafe and therefore illegal. You give it a rest - it won't change no matter how many times you say it. We wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea would we?
__________________
Amateur HAM Radio What is it? You'll be surprised. When all else fails Ham Radio still works. Shriners Hospitals providing specialized care for children regardless of ability to pay. Find out more or refer a patient. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#360 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Littleton, NH
Posts: 382
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
And I still stand by my statement that I have never attacked another member, except in my own defense. Show me just one instance where I have done otherwise - because taking a bunch of stuff completely out of context proves nothing.
__________________
"Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#361 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 521
Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Regarding your accountability thing...you come on here trying to hold us accountable for our statements? How about you apply that to yourself, and explain the "wild west" thing. Thanks in advance. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#362 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#363 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,762
Thanks: 32
Thanked 440 Times in 207 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
How many tickets have been passed out for "unreasonable speed"? Do we know of even a boat stop, or a warning, for "unreasonable speed"? Can a boat operators drivers license be effected by an "unreasonable speed" conviction? The legislature visited boat speed in 2006 and failed to enact a limit of any kind. That displays "legislative intent" that no speed, by itself, is unlawful. If unsafe operation is illegal why do we need all those other regulations? Does that mean we do not need safe passage, bwi, night lighting etc.? Are they already covered? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#364 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 321
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
|
![]()
Let's ask the state to eliminate all those hard to understand boating regulations, and we can go with "unsafe operation". That one law covers it all.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#365 | ||||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 35
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]()
I am sick of constantly reading unsubstantiated claims and people yelling LIE. How will they misdirect? Which way will they spin? How many people have to prove that safe speed laws are on the books.
Quote:
Quote:
Islander demonstrates what he says. If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger. That is just what he did to the Skipper of Sea Que. On another issue: Quote:
Quote:
You talk about bad manners. Ive seen it from both camps but more from the pro side. Then you lump all those opposed to HB847 with a need for speed crowd. The vast majority of those opposed to the bill are not speed demons. I do not go fast nor boat near the proposed limits. I do know where my limits are regarding Bull Stuff though. I've seen more than enough to force me to make a rare post. Education not creation. No need to create new laws for speed. Educate and enforce what we have. Last edited by Skipper; 05-22-2008 at 12:51 PM. Reason: fixed links |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
#366 | |
Senior Member
|
![]() Quote:
![]() I'll go one better. We'll just throw the book out and use a gentleman's agreement to govern the lake. ![]() "Excuse me sir you just violated my 150 foot space" "Ever so sorry my mistake it won't happen again" "Cheerio, Happy boating" "To you as well." ![]() Question for Skip and others. I was actually wondering when as in what year did NH enact the 150 foot rule? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#367 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,615
Thanks: 256
Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
![]() The current set of general operating guidelines (RSA 270-D:2) which includes the 150' rule goes back in some form or another to at least 1990. To give you an idea how long ago it was....back then me & Bear Islander were still being honest about the color of our hair on our respective driver's licenses.... ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#368 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,762
Thanks: 32
Thanked 440 Times in 207 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Good News! Hair color is not on it! ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#369 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 518
Thanks: 19
Thanked 62 Times in 15 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Why should a boat operators drivers license be effected by an unreasonable speed conviction or by a boating speeding ticket when this bill becomes law in 2009.......totally asinine IMHO. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#370 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 1,153
Thanks: 9
Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
![]() The pro HB847 crowd has done more to instill fear into people not familiar with Winnipesaukee than any GF boat ever has and even in your victory (or so it seems) you continue the fear mongering. Stand by there is more coming ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#371 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,454
Thanks: 220
Thanked 802 Times in 480 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
I think an unreasonable speed conviction going against your license would not count as it is a matter of perception, but if a speeding ticket is based on verifiable radar results why should it not count against your license? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#372 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 1,676
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 353
Thanked 637 Times in 289 Posts
|
![]()
If you are indeed going an unreasonable speed for conditions, then there is some sense in tying the conviction to your drivers license. Since the new law defines unreasonable based on anything but science, unlike how highway speeds are set, it would be best if on-water speeding was not tied to your license. On the other hand, it may become more difficult for a MP to prove you were going an unreasonable speed if you are going under 45.
__________________
-lg |
![]() |
![]() |
#373 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 518
Thanks: 19
Thanked 62 Times in 15 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#374 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,325
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
You are not supposed to be that smart or at least smarter than Concord has proven themselves to be. ![]()
__________________
[Assume funny, clever sig is here. Laugh and reflect... ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#375 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 346
Thanks: 3
Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts
|
![]()
Evenstar, those things I pointed out would be helpful if you listened. But I know you won't because you are never wrong in your opinion. If you continue to post the way you do nothing will change. Thats your decision but don't continue to whine about.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#376 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 1,153
Thanks: 9
Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Did the operator get a ticket or warning? I don't know but "Excessive Speed" is listed as the cause of the PWC accident so gee, I guess NH really does have an unreasonable speed statute. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#377 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,762
Thanks: 32
Thanked 440 Times in 207 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Do you believe a statute is created when an officer writes words on a report? It's a little more complicated than that. I asked how many tickets have been passed out for "unreasonable speed". Are you replying that there may, or may not, have been ONE passed out two years ago? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#378 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 1,153
Thanks: 9
Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
You asked how many tickets have been handed out and I said I don't know. For some reason the Marine Patrol doesn't like to publicize what it does. In my opinion that is a mistake, however since their incident logs are public record, and if you're in the neighborhood, why don't you swing by Glendale once a week and copy the log and post it? Then we'll know. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#379 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Bay State
Posts: 119
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
First you guys deny that the Marine Patrol and the law recognize reasonable speeds and there are laws about those speeds. You finally can not hide from that fact so now you start ranting about how many tickets have or have not been written. You question why we need other laws if laws about reasonable speeds are in place. Who are you trying to kid? You are trying to distract. It's another way to spin. We do not need more laws we need more enforcement of the current laws. If you want to do away with the other laws start a different thread.
__________________
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#380 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,254
Thanks: 423
Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Since every one of your post is a "defense", I guess you can say that you have never attacked someone outside of a defensive post. But you certainly have attacked members unnecessarily in those post. My favorite is when you attack all of us who quote the state motto. It is a little hard to justify an attack on a group of people in order to defend against one member's comment. I look forward to your next attack, I mean defense. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#381 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Littleton, NH
Posts: 382
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
What was your purpose of taking portions of 21 of my posts out of context? How did doing so add anything to the discussion here? Quote:
__________________
"Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
#382 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 329
Thanks: 28
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
|
![]()
supposed rights? Show me anywhere that says a person can't go fast on a recreational lake. Don't count Squam, it's not a recreational lake, but more of a snob lake
![]() ![]() ![]() Your comments and arguements are becoming so far out in left field there's really no point in calling you out anymore, you do it yourself. BTW traveling at any speed is a freedom. That is until people like you start wanting to make them rights. "Live Free or Die" loosely means living free of stupid laws. I tend to think of it as a way of life. Democrats are slowly taking away our way of life. I was out on the lake for hours yesterday and had no trouble spottng Loons that were over 1/4 mile away from me. Kayakers I could see at least 1/2 mile away riding west into the sun towards Meredith Bay. |
![]() |
![]() |
#383 |
Senior Member
|
![]()
About how life will be after speed limits. This happened in the "model" lake, that already has a speed limit!!!http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...010/-1/CITNEWS
|
![]() |
![]() |
#384 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meredith,NH.-Nashua,NH
Posts: 93
Thanks: 79
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
where's winnfab now .mybe they sould go after seat belt for boats too ![]() ' |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#385 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough & Southern NH
Posts: 133
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 18 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#386 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mass/Gilford
Posts: 247
Thanks: 216
Thanked 70 Times in 33 Posts
|
![]()
[Spinnfabs] But what if the captain was drinking? ~Doesn't count
His exact speed has not been determined and if the speed was unreasonable or not. ~Doesn't count. [/Spinnfabs] |
![]() |
![]() |
#387 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 73
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]()
I hope that the injured woman thrown from the boat is quickly recovering from her thigh injury. It must have been a terrible experience. I wish all of them the best.
What is next? Will there be an outcry for minimum speed laws. ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|