Partial winterization

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

For a single device or two (like a furnace) it would be easier to just use a mid-sized UPS. ...

A typical furnace circuit is 15 amps. At minimal out put my UPS is rated for two hours. My typical furnace cycle has been maybe 15 minutes per hour so using mine as an example (Assuming it's it can handle 15 amps, and the furnace draws at the minimal load level. I'm too lazy to go look right now), it will keep the heat on for 4 hours, theoretically. It was about the middle size of what is offered at Staples and I paid $2-300 for it, five years ago for my work-at-home office.

As it is, when my power cuts out, it says I have 20 minutes of power. This is adequate to fire up my generator and run a cord to my UPS which also functions nicely as a power distribution node.

IMO. The O/P can do much better with a few deep-cycle dry/gel cells and a transformer to prepare for any long term outage if all he wants is heat. Anything more serious and we'd be talking about a generator or solar cell set-up.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Kamper

IMO. The O/P can do much better with a few deep-cycle dry/gel cells and a transformer to prepare for any long term outage if all he wants is heat. Anything more serious and we'd be talking about a generator or solar cell set-up.

Do you mean Inverter and not "transformer"?

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Do you mean Inverter and not "transformer"?

Yam. Sweet potato.

Thanks

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Kamper

A typical furnace circuit is 15 amps. At minimal out put my UPS is rated for two hours.

These two statements are about as relevant as saying "my car is red" and "I had steak for dinner last night".

In household setups, a 15A circuit is generally the smallest you see, and furnaces are usually on a dedicated circuit. So all this tells us is that your furnace uses anywhere between 1 and 15Amps (well, more like 1 and 12Amps).

UPS's have two primary ratings:
1) The max load they can handle (The VA rating)
2) The runtime for a given load (which is usually less than max).

Inverter circuitry makes up the VA rating, and the number/size of batteries make up the runtime. You could have 2 different 500Va UPS's, where one could run a given load for 10 minutes, and another with more batteries could run the same load for an hour.

Originally Posted by Kamper

My typical furnace cycle has been maybe 15 minutes per hour so using mine as an example (Assuming it's it can handle 15 amps, and the furnace draws at the minimal load level. I'm too lazy to go look right now),

Your UPS almost certainly can't handle anywhere near 15 Amps. A 1500VA UPS can handle about 900 *watts*, which is roughly 7.5 Amps.

Originally Posted by Kamper

IMO. The O/P can do much better with a few deep-cycle dry/gel cells and a transformer to prepare for any long term outage if all he wants is heat. Anything more serious and we'd be talking about a generator or solar cell set-up.

Maybe, but you'd still want the whole thing wired in-line, so that the heat can come on when you're not there. Otherwise it's no good having a power setup that is just sitting idle while your pipes freeze and you're 100 miles away...

Fundamentally, yes, if he wants the optimal setup from a cost perspective, buy the cheapest inverter that will handle the startup surge current of the furnace, at put as much budget as possible to batteries for max runtime. Then wire it all up properly, being sure to make sure you have adequate wire gauge and connections, and all that.

[HellRaZoR004]

I would also be very careful with using a UPS to power your furnace. With a typical UPS, unless you get a Smart UPS (which are very expensive), you risk damaging the electronics in newer furnaces. The controller board needs very clean AC power, of which a typical UPS will not provide.

The same is true for some portable generators. I had a coworker fry the controller board on his new Lennox furnace a couple years back because the Total Harmonic Distortion (i.e. distortion of the input voltage) was not sufficient.

[ITD]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure most of your off the shelf ups systems would be reliable for running a furnace, especially a forced hot air furnace. The motor loads are high and the starting currents are huge, most ups systems will not work reliably unless it is designed specifically for the purpose. A generator would be best for this purpose.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

The same is true for some portable generators. I had a coworker fry the controller board on his new Lennox furnace a couple years back because the Total Harmonic Distortion (i.e. distortion of the input voltage) was not sufficient.

The problem with portable generators is not THD.... the problem with many generators is that they don't regulate the voltage well enough, and spike at 130 or 140 volts which most modern electronic don't handle, and if not fused correctly the electronics get fried when this happens.....

[Phantom]

All good advice above, but another step we take is to shut off (circuit breaker) the Hot water tank ..... no need in keeping that going


.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The problem with portable generators is not THD.... the problem with many generators is that they don't regulate the voltage well enough, and spike at 130 or 140 volts which most modern electronic don't handle, and if not fused correctly the electronics get fried when this happens.....

You are correct and that is why I have a Honda Generator with inverter technology. Some other generators probably have inverters but I like Honda.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The problem with portable generators is not THD.... the problem with many generators is that they don't regulate the voltage well enough, and spike at 130 or 140 volts which most modern electronic don't handle, and if not fused correctly the electronics get fried when this happens.....

The output regulation is covered under Total Harmonic Distortion. For those interested this summarizes it pretty well. Well known standby generators will specify the maximum THD.

http://www.aptsources.com/resources/...Distortion.pdf

[jbolty]

I would not worry so much about back up power and concentrate on getting the water out of the lines. My dad and I used to put a number of camps to bed every year and we just put anti freeze in the toilets and sink traps then made sure the water pipes were drained and left open. Where you run into trouble is if there is a low spot in the pipe that can't be drained. In that case if you have access put in a drain or blow the pipes out with compressed air; not too much pressure. The pipe won't burst from freezing unless they are full of water with no room for the ice to expand.

If the power does go out and a generator kicks on or a battery how long will that last? Unless you have a serious generator it will run out of gas in 3-4 hours.

My next thought is to have someone available to check in on the place once in a while and for sure if the power fails.

PS don't forget to drain the hose and internals of the washing machine and ice maker.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

... "my car is red" ... "I had steak for dinner last night". ...

Thanks for the additional details. I try to not get lost in the minutiae but sometimes that means things get left out.